I don't really think that switching from a completely pascal program to a java platform is feasible. It would seem fairly simple to port it to Delphi. Java would require a complete rewrite, and thus, it would not even resemble the original BBS software. Besides, Java is too buggy and unstable, and very much a resource hog. Just a Delphi programmer's two cents worth. FYI, Delphi is Pascal for Windows in essence.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
This is not a "port" per se, but a ground-up rewrite of the entire BBS from scratch. The idea is to implement a similar set of features and provide a similar "look and feel" or at least the same usability as the old version, while not using any of the old code.
I have the original Pascal source, and while it might be possible to port it, it would not be possible to make it open source, nor is it a job I would relish, given the state of the code.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I think you are living in an unreal world. Anyone that is still using delphi is obviously just wring VB-ish applications and has no real experience to build from.
I was in your shoes a few years ago... thought that c and c++ was the best thing ever... then got into the real world after college and realized that java was the key to any real success story. Right now I am working on a 100,000 + user application, written in java, and it is working great! There is no way we could have done this in any other language. Java has so much that is needed in todays world and it is so easy to use... combine that with design patterns and you are going to have a GREAT product.
Anyway, i used to love RG and would be very interest in helping rewrite it in java! What a fun project.
Nate
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
There is no such thing as the "best" overall programming language. Its the most appropriate one you have to find.
Java, C++/C, ASM, Perl, awk, sed, Delphi/Kylix etc etc all have different qualities. Each project must find what language/s should be assigned it and go from there.
To say that Java is the be all and end all of programming languages is dumb beyond belief. I'm not saying that its not right for this project I'm just saying that we have a responsibility to make sure its the right choice in the long run. I beleive it is, but what do others think?
I suppose it is also a question of how many people think they can do it in Java? No good starting an OpenSource project in a programming language if nobody with skills in it can/will help you out.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I agree that there is no "best" language... but these days java is the choice of the open source world for sure... if you started a project in Delphi you would be the laughing stock of OSS.
Just a few examples...
Java is easy to write. It is what is being taught in the CS departments of universities these days. It has great support for networking, graphics, sound, filesystems, databases, xml, and the list goes on... these all seem very important to a system such as Renegade, at least to me, and these things are core functionality in java, at least the majority of what i have listed are...
I would love to hear arguements for other languages....
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Hmm I think Delphi/Kylix can do those things ok... not sure about xml but I haven't played with that yet.
Have you used any other languages?
I'm not actually argueing with you though. I think that Java should be the language of choice for this project. Just as long as it isn't slow and clunky like most java programs I've run. That is my only reservation. That Renegade doesn't become too slow because it wants to be completely multi platform.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Nothing wrong with a little arguing... thats healthy :)
Sure, I have used quite a few languages in my time... basic, pascal, c, c++, perl, tcl/tk, the visual studio suit of languages from microsoft and java (and a few more).... the latter few for production applications and the earlier ones for fun and work while I was at Purdue.
These days you can make java applications just about as fast as a program written in a native language (with the bytecode compilers, etc)... but with the release of SDK1.4, you really dont need to anymore... Sun did a great job at really making that jvm work a whole lot faster than previous versions. I dont think you would have to worry about having a slow application if it were written in java.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
but otherwise, there are no bad languages, per se,
only bad programmers!! :}
this excludes VBasic and java, though!
hehe
well, with vbasic, you combine bad programmers
with a bad language!
hehe
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anonymous
-
2003-10-28
I don't really care what it's written in, I just want it to get done, preferrably soon. What would be best is if it ran smoothly in the background under Windows, Linux, and/or whichever other OS's it might be available for. The best way to make that happen is to compile and optimize the code for the specific OS using a lower-level language. The issue of performance should really be a little more important than the issue of immediate universal portability, I think. If it takes some time to port it to Linux/MacOS/whatever, that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It seems the biggest demand for the product right now is from Windows users.
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
I don't really think that switching from a completely pascal program to a java platform is feasible. It would seem fairly simple to port it to Delphi. Java would require a complete rewrite, and thus, it would not even resemble the original BBS software. Besides, Java is too buggy and unstable, and very much a resource hog. Just a Delphi programmer's two cents worth. FYI, Delphi is Pascal for Windows in essence.
This is not a "port" per se, but a ground-up rewrite of the entire BBS from scratch. The idea is to implement a similar set of features and provide a similar "look and feel" or at least the same usability as the old version, while not using any of the old code.
I have the original Pascal source, and while it might be possible to port it, it would not be possible to make it open source, nor is it a job I would relish, given the state of the code.
I think the code must have alot of "filthy" language in it eh?
Some of us that could port it to Delphi probably won't mind that... :)
I think you are living in an unreal world. Anyone that is still using delphi is obviously just wring VB-ish applications and has no real experience to build from.
I was in your shoes a few years ago... thought that c and c++ was the best thing ever... then got into the real world after college and realized that java was the key to any real success story. Right now I am working on a 100,000 + user application, written in java, and it is working great! There is no way we could have done this in any other language. Java has so much that is needed in todays world and it is so easy to use... combine that with design patterns and you are going to have a GREAT product.
Anyway, i used to love RG and would be very interest in helping rewrite it in java! What a fun project.
Nate
There is no such thing as the "best" overall programming language. Its the most appropriate one you have to find.
Java, C++/C, ASM, Perl, awk, sed, Delphi/Kylix etc etc all have different qualities. Each project must find what language/s should be assigned it and go from there.
To say that Java is the be all and end all of programming languages is dumb beyond belief. I'm not saying that its not right for this project I'm just saying that we have a responsibility to make sure its the right choice in the long run. I beleive it is, but what do others think?
I suppose it is also a question of how many people think they can do it in Java? No good starting an OpenSource project in a programming language if nobody with skills in it can/will help you out.
I agree that there is no "best" language... but these days java is the choice of the open source world for sure... if you started a project in Delphi you would be the laughing stock of OSS.
Just a few examples...
Java is easy to write. It is what is being taught in the CS departments of universities these days. It has great support for networking, graphics, sound, filesystems, databases, xml, and the list goes on... these all seem very important to a system such as Renegade, at least to me, and these things are core functionality in java, at least the majority of what i have listed are...
I would love to hear arguements for other languages....
Hmm I think Delphi/Kylix can do those things ok... not sure about xml but I haven't played with that yet.
Have you used any other languages?
I'm not actually argueing with you though. I think that Java should be the language of choice for this project. Just as long as it isn't slow and clunky like most java programs I've run. That is my only reservation. That Renegade doesn't become too slow because it wants to be completely multi platform.
Nothing wrong with a little arguing... thats healthy :)
Sure, I have used quite a few languages in my time... basic, pascal, c, c++, perl, tcl/tk, the visual studio suit of languages from microsoft and java (and a few more).... the latter few for production applications and the earlier ones for fun and work while I was at Purdue.
These days you can make java applications just about as fast as a program written in a native language (with the bytecode compilers, etc)... but with the release of SDK1.4, you really dont need to anymore... Sun did a great job at really making that jvm work a whole lot faster than previous versions. I dont think you would have to worry about having a slow application if it were written in java.
i dont think rg will work with java.
but otherwise, there are no bad languages, per se,
only bad programmers!! :}
this excludes VBasic and java, though!
hehe
well, with vbasic, you combine bad programmers
with a bad language!
hehe
I don't really care what it's written in, I just want it to get done, preferrably soon. What would be best is if it ran smoothly in the background under Windows, Linux, and/or whichever other OS's it might be available for. The best way to make that happen is to compile and optimize the code for the specific OS using a lower-level language. The issue of performance should really be a little more important than the issue of immediate universal portability, I think. If it takes some time to port it to Linux/MacOS/whatever, that doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It seems the biggest demand for the product right now is from Windows users.
http://www.renegadebbs.net
REAL RG Home page!