relfs-devel

[Relfs-devel] RelFS usage.

[Michael R. <fb0...@ra...>]

	Hello.
After creating one more set of scripts for RelFS, I decided to post it
here, as it gives easy interface (too simplistic, but yet more than a
standard search in file managers would give) to create search directory,
where will be found all files which satisfy condition (I count symbolic
links as files).

I do not know if there will be any interest, and everything is in
obvious shell language, so I'd rather answer questions after they are
asked than before.

PS. On the site it is stated that I learned OCaml for this project. That
is not entirely true - I didn't learn it well, and I knew some basics
before. But I think that I more than doubled my skill in OCaml.

Good bye, good luck, happy New Year.
	Raskin Michael

[Relfs-devel] RelFS usage.

[Michael R. <fb0...@ra...>]

Sorry, forgot to attach files first time.

--------------

	Hello.
After creating one more set of scripts for RelFS, I decided to post it
here, as it gives easy interface (too simplistic, but yet more than a
standard search in file managers would give) to create search directory,
where will be found all files which satisfy condition (I count symbolic
links as files).

I do not know if there will be any interest, and everything is in
obvious shell language, so I'd rather answer questions after they are
asked than before.

PS. On the site it is stated that I learned OCaml for this project. That
is not entirely true - I didn't learn it well, and I knew some basics
before. But I think that I more than doubled my skill in OCaml.

Good bye, good luck, happy New Year.
	Raskin Michael

Re: [Relfs-devel] RelFS usage.

[Vincenzo C. <ci...@di...>]

> After creating one more set of scripts for RelFS, I decided to post it
> here

Ok I am almost back. Will be completely back after a couple of
deadlines. You are welcome posting scripts, I will soon create an
"utils" directory with shell scripts to do ordinary stuff, even though I
think we should write some simple GUI, after stabilizing about the kind
of common relfs usage.

> , as it gives easy interface (too simplistic, but yet more than a
> standard search in file managers would give) to create search directory,
> where will be found all files which satisfy condition (I count symbolic
> links as files).

I still haven't been able to study your scripts in detail, but I have
some preliminary comments and many questions:

1. I don't like the "_create_" scripts that add things to a schema,
would rather prefer to have a state in relfs where it scans for new
addons, and when it finds them, it runs initialization code. This state
should be entered at least on startup, or better when a certain
directory containing plugins is changed. Your tags table can be at right
considered a plugin for relfs, even though there is no indexing. This
can be a good addition for a next snapshot of relfs.

2. Can you explain the schema of "tags"? Why are there (path,filename)
pairs? Didn't the id suffice to find the file name? Why did you prefer
to introduce a "tag_value"? I always think of tags as boolean
attributes, not quantities, even if the second idea is more general and
can be useful to implement classification directories, it seems harder
to use for navigation. In your case, you list all the values as
subdirectories of a tag, aren't them tags in their own right then? In
fact a tag name already can contain slashes, so the two namespaces
"tag/value" and "tag" already overlap, don't them? Finally, what's the
meaning of tag_id? Could "id, tag" be used as a primary key for the
table?

3. What's the _uniquedata_ stuff for?

4. What's the symlinkize_dir script? Maybe we already talked about that
in the past.

5. How should relfs_search_text be used?

> PS. On the site it is stated that I learned OCaml for this project. That
> is not entirely true - I didn't learn it well, and I knew some basics
> before. But I think that I more than doubled my skill in OCaml.
> 

Oops, fixed :) Thank you for your help with the project, I will surely
add an "util" directory with your scripts. We should agree a schema for
tags and the rest, and then also create some simple GUI to perform the
same operations as the scripts, dunno if in ocaml+gtk or in python.

Vincenzo

Re: [Relfs-devel] RelFS usage.

[Michael R. <fb0...@ra...>]

Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:
>> After creating one more set of scripts for RelFS, I decided to post it
>> here
> 
> Ok I am almost back. Will be completely back after a couple of
> deadlines. You are welcome posting scripts, I will soon create an
> "utils" directory with shell scripts to do ordinary stuff, even though I
Good idea.
> think we should write some simple GUI, after stabilizing about the kind
> of common relfs usage.
Scripts are good because of being quick-and-not-too-dirty. I agree that
after deciding what we do need and what was a bad idea we can try to
write some usable GUI (to give people something to tease disappointed
former WinFS believers?).

>> , as it gives easy interface (too simplistic, but yet more than a
>> standard search in file managers would give) to create search directory,
>> where will be found all files which satisfy condition (I count symbolic
>> links as files).
> 
> I still haven't been able to study your scripts in detail, but I have
> some preliminary comments and many questions:
I expected this.

> 1. I don't like the "_create_" scripts that add things to a schema,
> would rather prefer to have a state in relfs where it scans for new
> addons, and when it finds them, it runs initialization code. This state
For this some negotiation is needed about plugin interface. With *create
scripts someone passing by (we should act as if there are some, and I
hope there are - I will be glad if some of them replies with ideas of
possible bleeding-edge user) can say why I did everything wrong without
any effort right now.

> should be entered at least on startup, or better when a certain
> directory containing plugins is changed. Your tags table can be at right
> considered a plugin for relfs, even though there is no indexing. This
> can be a good addition for a next snapshot of relfs.
Well, a good idea. My script show 2 things: how something like tags can
work, and how something can be easily added by user to RelFS - even
without OCaml knowledge.

> 2. Can you explain the schema of "tags"? Why are there (path,filename)
> pairs? Didn't the id suffice to find the file name? Why did you prefer
Well, I want to simplify possible searches in this database. I leave
using lookup on each occasion to my enemies.

> to introduce a "tag_value"? I always think of tags as boolean
> attributes, not quantities, even if the second idea is more general and
> can be useful to implement classification directories, it seems harder
I thought "What do I want?". I wanted to have some different
classifications all easily accessible. I want to automatically have list
of all programming languages I mentioned in tags. With special virtual
folder for each. I also want to have list by functionality program
provides. This way command-line completion works better... And I have to
choose two times - both times between similar notions in bearable
quantity (not between "OCaml" and "file system", but between "language"
and "purpose" and later between "OCaml" and "Shell").

> to use for navigation. In your case, you list all the values as
> subdirectories of a tag, aren't them tags in their own right then? In
They are, but they are grouped by category.

> fact a tag name already can contain slashes, so the two namespaces
Er.. I don't filter it, by I don't think it works.

> "tag/value" and "tag" already overlap, don't them? Finally, what's the
> meaning of tag_id? Could "id, tag" be used as a primary key for the
> table?
Well, it can. But this is polishing. I didn't want to restrict myself
before I complete anything. I didn't want to design well - I wanted to
test features.

> 3. What's the _uniquedata_ stuff for?
I understood that file cannot have 2 real sizes (for symbolic link, as I
store mainly symbolic links here - RelFS is good at categorization, but
right now I am just not ready to store all data on it - just like I do
not store /home on funionfs), and if I want to tag project tarballs that
bear my contributions also, this tag can be assigned only once. But it
can be reasonable to make 2 programming language tags - like when
Mozilla applications are written in C++ + JavaScript. So I made a table
as an alternative to tags when there is one main tag_value and rarely
ever second. It makes some search queries simpler and it allows to get a
quick summary of multiple files at once.

> 4. What's the symlinkize_dir script? Maybe we already talked about that
> in the past.
It is easy to work with symbolic links in RelFS (I have right to say so,
I guess). There are many technical problems with directories (I see some
in processing something like name/#select/name/#select path). So an easy
workaround is to make directory that you want to appear in search
technically symbolic link, and hide content somewhere near it.

> 5. How should relfs_search_text be used?
It is used in relfs_create_search only. It was used when I wanted to
debug the scripts. You can also just feed its output to SQL pipe to see
listing one time, without creating directories. I agree that it is
exposing implementation, but for proof of concept it is not fatal.

>> PS. On the site it is stated that I learned OCaml for this project. That
>> is not entirely true - I didn't learn it well, and I knew some basics
>> before. But I think that I more than doubled my skill in OCaml.
> 
> Oops, fixed :) Thank you for your help with the project, I will surely
Funny design solution for fix.

> add an "util" directory with your scripts. We should agree a schema for
> tags and the rest, and then also create some simple GUI to perform the
> same operations as the scripts, dunno if in ocaml+gtk or in python.
I agree with that. Maybe then it will be possible also to promote
project a bit, say by discussion of possible improvements (together with
finding volunteers) on LinuxQuestions.org or somewhere.