refdb-users

[Refdb-users] My conclusions regarding RefDB

[Michael B. <mb...@an...>]

Hi,

after testing RefDB a bit, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't
meet my needs. I thought I should tell you why:

- The database stores only a subset of the contents of my bibtex
  files. Certain fields are lost, e.g. abstract, location, type,
  dissyear.

- Data input isn't supported very well. If I want to enter a new
  piece of literature, I have to type in field names and their
  content. There is no such thing like a data entry form. E.g.
  the bibtex mode of emacs is more comfortable, and that's where
  I'm coming from (as pybliographer didn't fit my needs).

I'd be glad to hear that I'm wrong, and I'd be glad to tell you
more about my requirements, as I think they are not too unusual... 

Ciao
  Michael

[Refdb-users] My conclusions regarding RefDB

[<mar...@mh...>]

Michael Below writes:
 > Hi,
 > 
 > after testing RefDB a bit, I came to the conclusion that it doesn't
 > meet my needs. I thought I should tell you why:
 > 

It is hard to meet everyones needs, so if RefDB doesn't match your
expectations I have to accept this. I try to improve on RefDB
continuously, so I appreciate your comments on the shortcomings of
RefDB.

 > - The database stores only a subset of the contents of my bibtex
 >   files. Certain fields are lost, e.g. abstract, location, type,
 >   dissyear.

bib2ris is highly configurable. By default the converter uses only the
standard bibtex fields (I followed the description of
Daly/Kopka). Support for all other fields must be manually added in
the configuration file. This is the only reasonable way to handle
non-standard data as everyone is free to use non-standard bibtex field
names of his own choice. Please see the manual how to configure
bib2ris.

 > - Data input isn't supported very well. If I want to enter a new
 >   piece of literature, I have to type in field names and their
 >   content. There is no such thing like a data entry form. E.g.
 >   the bibtex mode of emacs is more comfortable, and that's where
 >   I'm coming from (as pybliographer didn't fit my needs).
 > 

What are your main problems with ris-mode? This isn't exactly a form
but should help to enter data fairly rapidly. However, I frankly admit
that RefDB handles the import of existing electronic bibliography data
better than writing entries from scratch.

Future releases will support the upcoming bibx DTD. This is a XML DTD
which is currently under development. It is supposed to be a common
data storage and transfer format understood by (hopefully) all
open-source bibliography softwares. Once bibx has stabilized and
support for it has been added to RefDB, you can basically use any XML
editor to enter data. Most likely someone will also come up with a
graphical bibx editor.

regards,
Markus

-- 
Markus Hoenicka
mar...@ca...
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de

Re: [Refdb-users] My conclusions regarding RefDB

[<mar...@mh...>]

Michael Below writes:
 > But even with them, it looks like information is lost. If I map
 > e.g. abstracts (like "The author says...") and notes (like "Not
 > yet read") to N1, I won't be able to discern them later on
 > automatically. And it looks like I need to map several bibtex

Well, in this particular case you would map abstracts to N2 and notes
to N1. But in general your impression is correct: BibTeX and RIS are
too far apart for loss-free round-trip conversions.

 > I didn't try RIS-mode, I tried the WWW interface and wrote a
 > bibtex entry, as bibtex is what I know. I would have liked to see
 > something like the entry forms for pybliographic, with different
 > fields according to the type of publication, and configurable for
 > the needs of the bibtex style I use.
 > 

I understand. The web interface is a proof of concept, and I was
hoping that someone more capable than me in terms of CGI or PHP
programming would pick up the idea. Well, some did, but there are no
public versions available to date.

 > Sounds good... As I wrote on http://www.jurawiki.de/LaTeX I think
 > RefDB might become THE solution for bibliography management at
 > some point. But right now, the data structure and the ease of use
 > need improvement.
 > 

We're currently discussing the bibx DTD structure and the requirements
for various branches in science. If you are knowledgeable about citing
legal documents your input might help to improve on the
structure. Please let me know whether you are interested in
contributing as the bibx development is currently done in a private
mailing list.

regards,
Markus

-- 
Markus Hoenicka
mar...@ca...
(Spam-protected email: replace the quadrupeds with "mhoenicka")
http://www.mhoenicka.de

Re: [Refdb-users] My conclusions regarding RefDB

[Bruce D'A. <bd...@fa...>]

On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:06:22 +0100, mar...@mh... said:
>  > I didn't try RIS-mode, I tried the WWW interface and wrote a
>  > bibtex entry, as bibtex is what I know. I would have liked to see
>  > something like the entry forms for pybliographic, with different
>  > fields according to the type of publication, and configurable for
>  > the needs of the bibtex style I use.
>  > 
> 
> I understand. The web interface is a proof of concept, and I was
> hoping that someone more capable than me in terms of CGI or PHP
> programming would pick up the idea. Well, some did, but there are no
> public versions available to date.

As someone also taking part in helping with bibx, I can say that there is
really a lot of room for collaborative work on these kinds of things. 
Once the data model is nailed down, then it seems to me there ought to be
collaboration on designing an easy input form that'd be appropriate for a
web interface, as well as graphical clients that might link to RefDB (I
myself am interested in BibDesk on Mac OS X).

If you have any skills, I'd urge you to contribute to improving this
stuff rather than give up. As far as I'm concerned there isn't much
alternative, and there's a lot of promise here (not only with RefDB, but
especially if we can marshal the energy in similar projects around
standards like bibx and citestylex)!

Bruce

-- 
http://fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
                      love email again

Re: [Refdb-users] My conclusions regarding RefDB

[Michael B. <mb...@an...>]

Hi Bruce, 

you wrote:
 
> If you have any skills, I'd urge you to contribute to improving this
> stuff rather than give up. As far as I'm concerned there isn't much
> alternative, and there's a lot of promise here (not only with RefDB, but
> especially if we can marshal the energy in similar projects around
> standards like bibx and citestylex)!

I'll do both... I have given up using RefDB for my thesis right
now, as I think it's more productive to enter the data into a bibtex
file using emacs. Maybe this will change when I'm done with
gathering literature. On the other hand, I'm willing to help you
to define what's needed for processing german legal literature --
my skills are not in programming and definitely not in database
design.

Ciao
  Michael

Re: [Refdb-users] My conclusions regarding RefDB

[Michael B. <mb...@an...>]

Hi Markus,

you wrote:
> We're currently discussing the bibx DTD structure and the requirements
> for various branches in science. If you are knowledgeable about citing
> legal documents your input might help to improve on the
> structure. Please let me know whether you are interested in
> contributing as the bibx development is currently done in a private
> mailing list.

I am willing to help... But I'm not very knowledgeable in terms of
general document structures etc., I could tell you about the kinds of
legal documents I know (in german law) and what I think is
important for referring to them.

Ciao
  Michael

[Refdb-users] bibx

[<js...@mi...>]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002  mar...@mh... wrote:


[...]

> Future releases will support the upcoming bibx DTD. This is a XML DTD
> which is currently under development. 

Very interesting! Who is developing it? Is there any public forum
devoted to it?

> It is supposed to be a common data storage and transfer format
> understood by (hopefully) all open-source bibliography softwares.

Such a standard is definitely needed.

> Once bibx has stabilized and
> support for it has been added to RefDB, you can basically use any XML
> editor to enter data. 

E.g. Emacs :-)

Best regards

Janusz

-- 
                     ,   
dr hab. Janusz S. Bien, prof. UW
Prof. Janusz S. Bien, Warsaw Uniwersity
http://www.orient.uw.edu.pl/~jsbien/
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