Thread: [Refdb-users] multlingual titles in refdb
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From: Christian W. <cwi...@gm...> - 2010-01-12 04:06:45
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Hi there, For a project here, I would like to adopt refdb for bibliographic data management. However, one of the requirements is to be able to have multilingual titles, that is titles repeated for different languages. As an example, I might have a title of a Japanese paper in original script (Kanji+Kana), Roman Transcription, translation into English, translation into German etc. I wonder how refdb could deal with this. It appears that at the moment all fields are language-agnostic, right? Would it be possible to introduce language at some level? best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN |
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From: Markus H. <mar...@mh...> - 2010-01-12 10:15:57
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Christian Wittern <cwi...@gm...> was heard to say: > Hi there, > > For a project here, I would like to adopt refdb for bibliographic data > management. However, one of the requirements is to be able to have > multilingual titles, that is titles repeated for different languages. As an > example, I might have a title of a Japanese paper in original script > (Kanji+Kana), Roman Transcription, translation into English, translation > into German etc. > I wonder how refdb could deal with this. It appears that at the moment all > fields are language-agnostic, right? Would it be possible to introduce > language at some level? Hi, RefDB cannot deal with this at the moment. Current practice in biomedical sciences is to provide the native title, followed by the translated title in square brackets. I'm well aware that this is not sufficient for the humanities. Adding language support to article and publication titles requires a couple of internal changes. Currently the title is part of the main reference entry, except for periodical titles which are already stored in a separate table. At this time RefDB only supports a fixed number of periodical synonyms. In order to support titles in different languages, we'd have to change this to a key-value kind of storage, with multiple keys indicating the type and language of a title. This is basically doable, but it will require quite a bit of coding time (which I'm particularly short of at the moment). Also, it will require extensions to the query language as you'd have to be able to query specific translations of a title to make full use of these changes, something like ":TX[en]:~whatever" to query the English version of a title. Adding language support to other fields (which ones would be required?) would follow the same pattern and would add quite a bit of complexity to the whole thing. To sum it up, RefDB could be modified to suit your needs, but this is nothing that I could do on a rainy sunday afternoon. regards, Markus -- Markus Hoenicka http://www.mhoenicka.de AQ score 38 |
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From: Christian W. <cwi...@gm...> - 2010-01-12 12:44:00
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Dear Markus, Thanks for your answer. What a pity, RefDB would otherwise quiet nicely fit the bill. Unfortunately, I am not aware of other software that could do this. MODS maybe could be shoehorned to support this, but last time I checked it did not have xml:lang in the schema. TEI could do this, so I might have to go with a custom made XML database (eXist) or some such:-( All the best, Christian On 2010-01-12 19:15, Markus Hoenicka wrote: > Christian Wittern<cwi...@gm...> was heard to say: > > >> Hi there, >> >> For a project here, I would like to adopt refdb for bibliographic data >> management. However, one of the requirements is to be able to have >> multilingual titles, that is titles repeated for different languages. As an >> example, I might have a title of a Japanese paper in original script >> (Kanji+Kana), Roman Transcription, translation into English, translation >> into German etc. >> I wonder how refdb could deal with this. It appears that at the moment all >> fields are language-agnostic, right? Would it be possible to introduce >> language at some level? >> > Hi, > > RefDB cannot deal with this at the moment. Current practice in > biomedical sciences is to provide the native title, followed by the > translated title in square brackets. I'm well aware that this is not > sufficient for the humanities. > > Adding language support to article and publication titles requires a > couple of internal changes. Currently the title is part of the main > reference entry, except for periodical titles which are already stored > in a separate table. At this time RefDB only supports a fixed number > of periodical synonyms. In order to support titles in different > languages, we'd have to change this to a key-value kind of storage, > with multiple keys indicating the type and language of a title. This > is basically doable, but it will require quite a bit of coding time > (which I'm particularly short of at the moment). Also, it will require > extensions to the query language as you'd have to be able to query > specific translations of a title to make full use of these changes, > something like ":TX[en]:~whatever" to query the English version of a > title. Adding language support to other fields (which ones would be > required?) would follow the same pattern and would add quite a bit of > complexity to the whole thing. > > To sum it up, RefDB could be modified to suit your needs, but this is > nothing that I could do on a rainy sunday afternoon. > > regards, > Markus > > > > > > -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN |
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From: O'Donnell, D. <dan...@ul...> - 2010-01-12 15:54:22
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Given how unsupported this is at the moment regardless of software, I wonder if a kluge might not be the way to go no matter what system you use, Christian? I.e. code the data with a wiki-style token that you could later use to extract a xml:lang attribute from. e.g. +fr+Les temps perdus; +en+Remembrance of things past It might be much easier to build the language tokens into an existing bibliographic database than to build a bibliographic database from the ground up. How does MARC handle this? Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada Chair, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) -----Original Message----- From: Christian Wittern [mailto:cwi...@gm...] Sent: Tue 2010-01-12 5:14 To: ref...@li... Subject: Re: [Refdb-users] multlingual titles in refdb Dear Markus, Thanks for your answer. What a pity, RefDB would otherwise quiet nicely fit the bill. Unfortunately, I am not aware of other software that could do this. MODS maybe could be shoehorned to support this, but last time I checked it did not have xml:lang in the schema. TEI could do this, so I might have to go with a custom made XML database (eXist) or some such:-( All the best, Christian On 2010-01-12 19:15, Markus Hoenicka wrote: > Christian Wittern<cwi...@gm...> was heard to say: > > >> Hi there, >> >> For a project here, I would like to adopt refdb for bibliographic data >> management. However, one of the requirements is to be able to have >> multilingual titles, that is titles repeated for different languages. As an >> example, I might have a title of a Japanese paper in original script >> (Kanji+Kana), Roman Transcription, translation into English, translation >> into German etc. >> I wonder how refdb could deal with this. It appears that at the moment all >> fields are language-agnostic, right? Would it be possible to introduce >> language at some level? >> > Hi, > > RefDB cannot deal with this at the moment. Current practice in > biomedical sciences is to provide the native title, followed by the > translated title in square brackets. I'm well aware that this is not > sufficient for the humanities. > > Adding language support to article and publication titles requires a > couple of internal changes. Currently the title is part of the main > reference entry, except for periodical titles which are already stored > in a separate table. At this time RefDB only supports a fixed number > of periodical synonyms. In order to support titles in different > languages, we'd have to change this to a key-value kind of storage, > with multiple keys indicating the type and language of a title. This > is basically doable, but it will require quite a bit of coding time > (which I'm particularly short of at the moment). Also, it will require > extensions to the query language as you'd have to be able to query > specific translations of a title to make full use of these changes, > something like ":TX[en]:~whatever" to query the English version of a > title. Adding language support to other fields (which ones would be > required?) would follow the same pattern and would add quite a bit of > complexity to the whole thing. > > To sum it up, RefDB could be modified to suit your needs, but this is > nothing that I could do on a rainy sunday afternoon. > > regards, > Markus > > > > > > -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-dev2dev _______________________________________________ Refdb-users mailing list Ref...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/refdb-users |
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From: Christian W. <cwi...@gm...> - 2010-01-12 16:25:04
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On 2010-01-13 0:13, O'Donnell, Dan wrote: > > Given how unsupported this is at the moment regardless of software, I > wonder if a kluge might not be the way to go no matter what system you > use, Christian? I.e. code the data with a wiki-style token that you > could later use to extract a xml:lang attribute from. e.g. +fr+Les > temps perdus; +en+Remembrance of things past > Hi Dan, Thanks for your suggestion. I was just thinking that maybe not all is lost. Working around the problem certainly sounds less work than building from scratch... My idea was to use a kludge involving the ID to achieve something similar, eg have T51n2076 as a base ID for the original text and then use T51n2076-en for an English translation of the title, T51n2076-ja-Latn for the romanized title and so on. But I would have to see if using subfields like you suggest might be a better solution. One other requirement is being able to pick and combine the various languages, but this is a formating issue. But as Markus pointed out, I guess the retrieval will be most tricky to fit in. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN |
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