Free versus Paid version

Help
Jonathan
2009-11-17
2012-11-20
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-17

    About 18 months ago I purchased Reduce 3.8. This is what I am currently running. I tried the new free version of Reduce, but I couldn't figure out how to load a program (DAISY). In 3.8 I use the CD command to go to the directory where DAISY is located and then use the command "load" to run it. However, the CD command did not work in the new free version. Is the new version better than 3.8? Moreover, how would I go about loading DAISY with this new version?

    Also, for some reason, the Reduce Server window keeps freezing on me when I am running 3.8. Are you aware of any problems?

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-18

    The fact that "cd" does not work indicates that you are using the CSL version of Reduce, and I suspect you are trying to load a file "daisy.b", which is a binary for the PSL version of Reduce. For using daisy with CSL, please compile "daisy.red" as described in the Reduce manual (faslout "daisy"; in "daisy.red"$ faslend;). There will *no* new file come into existence since with CSL the compiled code goes into the Reduce image file by default. Anyway, you will be able to load_package daisy anytime later on.

    The equivalent to 'cd "…"' in CSL is 'lisp chdir "…"'. These are functions, which are not at all specified by Reduce or Standard Lisp. You thus have to use what the underlying Lisp provides, and this might differ.

    Alternatively, you can checkout Reduce from the svn and compile the PSL version (that is the development line you once bought) yourself. Instructions can be found here:

    https://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/reduce-algebra/index.php?title=Installation

    If you encounter any problems with the installation, I will be happy to support you.

    Notice, however, that your "daisy.b" will only work on the very same architecture that it once was compiled for.

    Reduce is continuously developed and certainly the current version contains many improvement and bug fixes compared to 3.8. I think it is not recommendable to stick with 3.8.

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-18

    Thanks, Thomas. That was very helpful.

    When you say that daisy.b will only work on the very same architecture that it was once compiled for, you mean that daisy.b will only work on the PSL version of Reduce unless I compile it for the CSL version of Reduce?

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-18

    Also, do you have a suggestion of an svn program to use? I've never worked with it before.

     
  • Arthur Norman

    Arthur Norman - 2009-11-18

    On windows the way to get an environment within whihc you can ferchg reduce from subversion and build it is to install "cygwin" (you will find their web-site easily - it is a no-cost layer that gives you gcc and many unix/linux tools for use on tyop of windows). You need to tell the installer to fetch and install subversion (svn) for you.

    On most linux distributions it should be a standard option in whatever places you can find and install software from. On Mac it exists and a web-search will find you one to install. Arthur

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-18

    > When you say that daisy.b will only work on the very same architecture that it was once compiled for, you mean that daisy.b will only work on the PSL version of Reduce unless I compile it for the CSL version of Reduce?

    No, I meant that even if you get a PSL version, this is quite sensitive to the system you are running on.

    CSL compiles to byte code, which does not depend on the platform. Well, to be precise, it depends at present on whether you have got a 32 bit or a 64 bit architecture.

    PSL compiles to native machine code and bringing a binary from one machine to the other is not the same but can be compared to moving an "a.out" obtained from some C-compiler to another machine though.

    So no matter for which Reduce you decide, I would recommend to just recompile, which really takes only the 3 commands that I posted earlier.

    Thomas

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-18

    Okay. I'm trying to install the PSL version per the website given above. I installed cygwin, used it to fetch svn (the first command: svn co returned no errors, so I assume it worked), and then typed each command given on the website. I can see all of the files downloaded to the reduce-algebra directory. When I get to the last command: make, it gives the following error:

    $ make
    bash: make: command not found

    Why can't I make the exe.?

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-18

    It is hard to tell from the distance whether the "bash" shell reports that the command "make" is not found or vice versa.

    1. Please make sure that you are using a bash and not that Windows shell which looks like DOS back in the 80s. In my (not quite new) cygwin there is an item "Cygwin Bash Shell" under Cygwin in the start menu for this.
    2. Make sure that "make" is installed: In the bash say "type -a make". If there is a path to make returned, that is fine. Otherwise install make in the same fashion as you installed svn.

    Thomas

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-18

    I am running the Cygwin Bash Shell (although it looks similar to DOS).

    I didn't realize that Make had to be installed separately, I had the cygwin installed find and install svn when cygwin was installing. I've no idea how to install it now.

    During the ./configure command,  there were a couple places where it didn't look like it was working right:

    "checking whether make sets$<MAKE> … no,
    checking for gcc … no, checking for cc … no, checking for cl.exe … no,
    configure:error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH,
    chmod: cannot access 'bpsl*': No such file or directory"

    Do any of those errors give a clue as to the problem?

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-18

    Configure notices that you have not even got a C compiler and then stops (very early). This indicates that "make" is probably missing as well (did you try "type -a make"?).

    Restart cygwin's setup.exe (if you have deleted it, please, return to cygwin.org, and find this "install cygwin now" icon again). It is for initial installation as well as for updates and adding packages. When you get to the package selection, find the group "Devel" and left-click on the word "Default" there until it turns into "Install". Then continue. This will install development tools including gcc and make.

    You need not worry about these installations: Everything goes into the cygwin tree and does not affect your Windows installation.

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-18

    Okay - it works now. I hadn't downloaded the correct make program (now I have 2GB worth of it!). However, as stated elsewhere on these boards, when I try to run the Daisy program it gives "error in loading package groebner or package not found" and "error in loading package daisy or package not found".

    I think the second error requires me to find the .red file of Daisy and recompile it (I can't recompile it from the .b file, correct?). However, I don't now why the groebner package can't be found.

    Any ideas?

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-18

    I am puzzled: In order to be able to support you I have checked out a cygwin Reduce as well and for me compilation fails entirely. So you appear to have got further than I at present.

    Have you really got a working PSL Reduce, where the banner says

    "Reduce (Free PSL version), 18-Nov-2009 …" ?

    It all sounds like you have but I want to make sure that you are not accidently using some other Reduce version.

    In the positive case,  I would have to reproduce your current status myself and look into it in more detail (but not today anymore!).

    It very much sounds like your daisy.b is fine for this system but the groebner package has not been built, which is a problem with the build process of PSL Reduce on cygwin.

    If you are able to obtain daisy.red, it would be most comfortable for you to use a prebuilt CSL Reduce for the time being and compile daisy there.

    Anyway, please confirm the banner message above, and what Windows are you using exactly?

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-18

    Yes, I was able to compile the PSL version, after spending most of the day on it! The only difference (albiet small) is that it says:
    Reduce <Free PSL version>, 18-Nov-09 … (not 2009), but I doubt that matters.

    I am running Windows 7 Pro. I also used the most recent version of cygwin (1.7).

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-20

    OK. I have found the problem.

    It is something we have to fix. I just describe it her for the records, since it might happen again at some point (in fact I have some deja vu feelings about it …)

    The names of the binary PSL files in pslbuild/ARCHITECTURE/psl are pruned to 8 characters. From the bootstrapping point of view it starts like

    datamachine.b -> datamach.b
    sys-consts.b -> sys-cons.b (also a nice name)

    and unfortunately this continues and cannot be temporarily fixed with a few copies. Anyway, I think we can fix this soon.

    I think we already had that once with only datamachine.b affected(?)

    Thomas

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-11-23

    The situation is more twisted than I had expected. I have checked in a temporary workaround, which should build  a fully functional system also on Windows.

    Please, proceed as follows:

    1. If you still have got the non-working Reduce built last week, then start it and go: `lisp lispsystem!*;` This will output a list. Make sure that this list contains the symbol *dos*. I use this as a condition in order to not apply my fix on systems other than Windows. If *dos* is not present, then please send me your output. If you have not got that Reduce anymore, just go ahead.
    2. In a Cygwin Bash: `cd reduce-algebra/trunk`
    3. Get a modified psl/noncoremodule.sh: `svn update`
    4. Delete the things built previously to start from scratch: `rm -rf pslbuild`
    5. Build: `./configure -with-psl` `make`

    Everything should work fine then,

    Thomas

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-11-24

    That fix worked, and the software appears to be running fine now. Thanks!

     
  • Jonathan

    Jonathan - 2009-12-07

    Once I have Reduce working, can I remove cygwin (or at least the Make packages)? They take up over 2gb on my rather small laptop HD.

     
  • Arthur Norman

    Arthur Norman - 2009-12-07

    Once you have either built a Reduce of your own or fetched a ready-built binary from sourceforge you do not need cygwin and in particular even if you keep it so you can use the "svn" command to review which files change you could safely cut it down to a bare minimum.

    It could be that my best suggestion would be to get a 4Gb memory stick, plug that into your laptop and install cygwin on that so that if you do want to build things again you can just plug the stick in and go. It might be slower than your HD but would not be very expensive? Arthur

     
  • Thomas Sturm

    Thomas Sturm - 2009-12-07

    You can also safely delete the directory reduce-algebra/branches (185 MB) and in the future go "svn update" inside reduce-algebra/trunk.

    I would follow Arthur's advice to preserve a state where you can update and rebuild the system.

     

Log in to post a comment.

Get latest updates about Open Source Projects, Conferences and News.

Sign up for the SourceForge newsletter:





No, thanks