reactos-kernel

[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[Steven E. <Ste...@kn...>]

Yes wine does. But TWIN is closer to the way NT does it.

Take a look at Willows TWIN, It runs on POSIX and MAC-OS 9.x systems and
unlike wine it can emulate a x86 CPU for dos/win16 apps. It runs on x86,
Sparc, PPC, and Alpha. I know this wouldnt be a true ntvdm but at least if
someone wanted to run a 16bit app it might be possible.


>and the 16-bit only DLL's.

Does wine support 16bit apps?  We don't, and I don't see any need to 
either.  It has been many many years since we left the 16bit world 
behind.  We finally even got rid of the ISA bus.  I think we can drop
16bit 
windows/dos as well.



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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[Derrick J. <sep...@de...>]

> Does wine support 16bit apps?  We don't, and I don't see any need to
> either.  It has been many many years since we left the 16bit world
> behind.  We finally even got rid of the ISA bus.  I think we can drop
> 16bit
> windows/dos as well.

Anyway, 16-bit in NT is emulated AFAIK with the WOW (Windows On Windows).
That can be done separately, no? And what about win32 console apps? Since
they depends on the console, could they be affected by the absence of this
support?

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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[Phillip S. <ps...@cf...>]

No, consoles are fully 32bit, and are already implemented in reactos.

At 10:45 PM 10/24/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Anyway, 16-bit in NT is emulated AFAIK with the WOW (Windows On Windows).
>That can be done separately, no? And what about win32 console apps? Since
>they depends on the console, could they be affected by the absence of this
>support?

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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[KJK::Hyperion <no...@li...>]

At 22.45 24/10/2001 +0200, you wrote:
> > Does wine support 16bit apps?  We don't, and I don't see any need to
> > either.  It has been many many years since we left the 16bit world
> > behind.  We finally even got rid of the ISA bus.  I think we can drop
> > 16bit
> > windows/dos as well.
>Anyway, 16-bit in NT is emulated AFAIK with the WOW (Windows On Windows).

Right. Emulation of 16 bit code should be fairly trivial, anyway, since 
it's mostly a feature of the Intel architecture

>That can be done separately, no? And what about win32 console apps? Since 
>they depends on the console, could they be affected by the absence of this 
>support?

Only in Windows 95, where consoles are all DOS virtual machines. NT 
consoles are a service provided by the Win32 (AKA Client-server runtime) 
subsystem, csrss.exe (it does expose NTVDM/WOW specific extensions through 
kernel32.dll, though)

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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[Phillip S. <ps...@cf...>]

Running the 16bit code is not a problem, you just create a 16bit v86 mode 
code segment selector and jump to it.  It's all of the support code for 
16bit apps that is difficult.  DOS apps expect to be able to make interrupt 
calls to dos as well as the bios, and be able to hook interrupts from 
hardware.  They also expect to be able to directly access hardware via IO 
ports.  Just to support DOS then, we have to write a fake bios, dos, and 
have the VDM fake interrupts and fake IO port access.  Then for windows 3.1 
support, you have to basically rewrite all of windows 3.1 to run inside the 
VDM, so this is not trivial.

At 06:44 PM 10/25/2001 +0200, you wrote:
Right. Emulation of 16 bit code should be fairly trivial, anyway, since 
it's mostly a feature of the Intel architecture


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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[Jakob E. <ja...@vm...>]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2001 at 01:16:58PM -0400, Phillip Susi wrote:
> Running the 16bit code is not a problem, you just create a 16bit v86 mode 
> code segment selector and jump to it.  It's all of the support code for 
> 16bit apps that is difficult.  DOS apps expect to be able to make interrupt 
> calls to dos as well as the bios, and be able to hook interrupts from 
> hardware.  They also expect to be able to directly access hardware via IO 
> ports.  Just to support DOS then, we have to write a fake bios, dos, and 
> have the VDM fake interrupts and fake IO port access.  Then for windows 3.1 
> support, you have to basically rewrite all of windows 3.1 to run inside the 
> VDM, so this is not trivial.
> 
> At 06:44 PM 10/25/2001 +0200, you wrote:
> Right. Emulation of 16 bit code should be fairly trivial, anyway, since 
> it's mostly a feature of the Intel architecture
> 

Could not this wait for later? There is 16-bit windows support in wine
and there is FreeDOS. Sometime in the distant future this could surely
be integrated into ReactOS?


jakob


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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[Robert C. <rob...@it...>]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillip Susi" <ps...@cf...>
To: <ros...@re...>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 3:16 AM
Subject: [ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support


> Running the 16bit code is not a problem, you just create a 16bit v86
mode
> code segment selector and jump to it.  It's all of the support code
for
> 16bit apps that is difficult.  DOS apps expect to be able to make
interrupt
> calls to dos as well as the bios, and be able to hook interrupts from
> hardware.  They also expect to be able to directly access hardware via
IO
> ports.  Just to support DOS then, we have to write a fake bios, dos,
and
> have the VDM fake interrupts and fake IO port access.  Then for
windows 3.1
> support, you have to basically rewrite all of windows 3.1 to run
inside the
> VDM, so this is not trivial.

Sure. To help though, freeDOS can provide the DOS code, and I'd have
thought bochs now it's under GPL could provide the BIOS emulation - or
at least a large chunk of it.

Rob

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[ros-kernel] Re: Sharing code with wine + 16 bit support

[KJK::Hyperion <no...@li...>]

At 13.16 25/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>Running the 16bit code is not a problem, you just create a 16bit v86 mode 
>code segment selector and jump to it.

That's what I meant...

>   It's all of the support code for 16bit apps that is difficult.
[...]

... and that's something I didn't ever imagine :) So, OK, 16 bit support 
can wait. However, what about WinE's 16 bit support? anything usable/portable?

>At 06:44 PM 10/25/2001 +0200, you wrote:
>Right. Emulation of 16 bit code should be fairly trivial, anyway, since 
>it's mostly a feature of the Intel architecture

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