On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Peter Åstrand <astrand@cendio.se> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011, Jay Sorg wrote:

I tried to talk to you about the plugin issues and got the answer "We
don't feel it's necessary to discuss this further"
Who is "We" and how can you be so disrespectful to ME?

We are Cendio, ie only 30% of the developers with commit rights. We can only claim our position on the matter. We are very busy so we must focus on which development topics to work on. You know it, open source work is voluntary, you are not *required* to participate.

I have seen you disrespect several people over the years.  You have
even publicly called Matt a "moron"

I would never do something like that. You must be mistaken.

You tell people not to advertise on the mailing list but you do.

An email footer is OK with most people, if this is what you are referring to.

Cendio has taken over this project and the community is lost.

I agree that the project is in a bad shape, and that we should worked harder on building a community. I do NOT think that Cendio has the sole responsibility for this, though. What about your responsibility, Jay? You joined rdesktop as a developer before we did. Why haven't you worked on integrating patches, recruiting developers etc?

Did you already forget that Jay and I started FreeRDP? He did an awesome job, and continues to be an extremely valuable asset. I'm sorry you lost such a good contributor. Working on integrating patches, recruiting developers, keeping the project going requires some organizational skills which not everybody has. Some people are good coders, that doesn't necessarily make them natural born leaders.

May I insist on the fact that "open source" concerns much more than just source code? The "community" aspect of it is as important as the source code, if not more. Open source goes nowhere without a healthy developer community. Kill the community, and you kill the project with it, that's it.

It's funny you mention VLC as it recently got pulled from istore because it's GPL.

Yes, I know, this was expected. Apple is trying hard to exclude Open Source. There's a war out there. I see no reason why we should surrender.

Oh, wait, aren't you producing commercial software, ThinLinc? Is all of it contributed back to the open source community? I'm not saying it is wrong, because it is perfectly fine, but what I find a bit ironic here are your priorities. First, Apple has not declared a war on open source, it will allow GPLv2 applications to be distributed on its App Store. The problem is that the GPLv2 says that you cannot impose further restrictions, such as those imposed by the App Store itself. For these reasons, some people have been filing complaints against GPLv2 applications in the App Store - complaints from the GPLv2 developers themselves in the case of VLC.

We're not even talking about linking proprietary code into GPL code, we're simply talking about distribution GPL code on a platform that imposes certain restrictions. No matter how open the source code is, if the platform itself imposes ANY further restrictions, it won't be considered suitable for it. Should we remove all GPL applications from all platforms imposing any form of restriction?

The irony here is that if we compare imposing certain restrictions such as with the App Store and building a commercial product out of GPL software, I think building a commercial product out of GPL software might just come first if you ever want to consider it "bad".

The plugin design is a perfect example of why the GPL does not work. Running the plugin out of process takes a performance and memory hit. Plus what is even worse than that is that it's a different interface than what MTSC uses. We want to make the port from Windows to Linux as easy as possible. FreeRDP uses the exact same interface that MSTSC uses.

It should be possible to provide the same interface by providing a stub library. This small glue code can then have a different license.

If that is all it takes, why even bother with GPL? Let's just use a license that allows better and more lightweight interfaces, period. Come on, you're making commercial software out of rdesktop, how is that even supposed to hold? "I want people to be forced to use technically inferior ways to interface with my code, because they will interface with it anyway?"

Matt even said the plugin design should be a technical decision, not a
license decision.

The license should not be a obstacle.
You will never be able to create the best RDP client possible using an
out of process plugin design.

Again, we are only telling you how we feel about it.

Rgds, ---
Peter Åstrand           ThinLinc Chief Developer
Cendio AB               http://www.cendio.com
Wallenbergs gata 4
583 30 Linköping        Phone: +46-13-21 46 00

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