rcpilot-devs — R/C Pilot Developers

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Map Bug in CVS

[Ian D. <occ...@ia...>]

Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote:

> Well I tracked down "a" problem with the Map stuff.
> Map is a reserved word. It's an interface in java.util.
> The other problem is that panel.getMap() is returning null.
> 
> Ian I will leave this stuff for you.
> Just let me know when you think you can get to it.
> 
> I will keep working of TelData in the meantime.

This is more of a general map improvement thing, but...

1. Instead of .inf files, can we have .xml configuration files for each 
gif?

I think the GUI should handle importing maps, so I'll add a tab for that 
in UserPreferencesDialog. It'll just be a file browser, and then 
textfields for all of the values in the .inf.

2. Is it all right to add support for jpg and png files too? Any other 
formats we want?

3. And could someone explain to me what the values are in the inf files? 
Here's an example:

   45 45.161, -74 04.550
   45 20.081, -73 14.280

4. Any other data we want to add? (I'm already adding a display name, so 
the user can edit the name without changing the filename.

5. Also, where will people be pulling maps from? Is there a site on the 
web that we can connect to and pull maps automatically based on gps 
coordinates or a street address?

I know it's probably not that important, but it would be *really* cool 
if people could import a map of their home area the first time they try 
the program via WebStart or wherever. That'll buy us a lot of initial 
goodwill.

6. If #5 isn't possible, can someone write up a general How To document 
about where to go about looking for maps and where to get GPS coordinate 
data? This would be for the people just testing out the software, who 
might now already own GPS equipment, and just want to get a map of their 
home town to play around with...

--ian

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Prefs.java

[Ian D. <occ...@ia...>]

Michael J. Pawlowsky wrote:

> Ian:
> 
> Prefs.java is not used anymore right? 
> Any reason to keep it around?

Yes, prefs has been renamed UserPreferences, so there's no reason to 
keep prefs.java.

Also, we now have two preferences/properties files -- can we combine 
them? (we'd just have to update the UserPreferences static 
initialization method; I believe RcgsJPanels uses the separate 
.properties file for x/y getting coordinates...)

--ian

[rcpilot-devs] Map Bug in CVS

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Well I tracked down "a" problem with the Map stuff.
Map is a reserved word. It's an interface in java.util.
The other problem is that panel.getMap() is returning null.

Ian I will leave this stuff for you.
Just let me know when you think you can get to it.

I will keep working of TelData in the meantime.


Mike

[rcpilot-devs] 9k6 packet modem

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Hi Mark,

Glad to see you made it.

For the others, especially Val who is looking into the modem stuff, I met Mark on the TAPR PIC-SIG.
Basically I was asking around to see if anyone had designed a 9k6 modem using a PIC.

Mark came back to me and said that he has in the past.

So I asked him if he could join us to help us come up with a design.

As for the uP used, language etc., I'm not really too concerned about that.
Mostly the schematic and code blocks needed.

We actually only need the TX part for now. I don't think we will get to RX stuff this year.
On the receiving side we want to use AGWPE.

Also it would be nice to validate that we will be able to do this using the audio sub-carrier of the video TX.
I've been doing it at 1200 baud and that works well, but not sure about 9600.

Val was trying to get some code going from G3RUH but I'm not sure where he is at with it now.


Val?

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Another AX.25 data items

[Mark <ma...@cp...>]

	Hi,

	I just subscribed to this list by Michael invitation.
	My background is in Electronics and I have designed
some modems for Radio use.
	Now I do designing uP hardware & software for a living.

	Regards,
	Mark Jordan, PY3SS

On 7 Mar 2004 at 7:05, Val Petrov wrote:

> I did thought about other data items for AX.25 table.
> Elevator/aileron servo demands - these will show instanteneous servo
> positions. They will be calculated by reading RC pulses from RC
> receiver. 
> The center cross or circle in HUD display will be displaced up/down
> left/right showing vehicle acceleration due to elevator and aileron
> demands.
> 
> We can have it version 2.
> 
> 
> Val.
> 
> 
> 
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 
> 
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Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

That's one of my next upgrades. I'm still using an analog camcorder that I purchased when my daughter was born 8 years ago.
It's one of the reasons I hate transferring video to my computer. I really need to get a decent digital cam corder with DV input and output.

>My camcorder have LCD panel that shows pilot's view to other people
>on the field. It's a bit smaller than full size TV but lighter at the
>same time :-).

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

> One person might want it to fly using the HUD.
> Someone else might simply want to track their vehicle with it in
> the way an APRS application might over a map.

Map view is great - I am all for it.

> 
> If you only want to know about how far away your plane is so you
> don't drift out of range, then tracker view is best suited for you.

Sure, I was suggesting to put tracking info on HUD display. Once you
have it on HUD - the tracker view becomes redundant. On the other
hand dedicated tracker view will be easier to see.


> 
> I don't know about you but after 20-30 minutes of flying with the
> VR glasses on, my eyes get strained.
> I have a splitter box (
> http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=CEIAV400 ) and the video
> is also on a TV beside me.
> It is also appreciated by the people around me since they like to
> see what I see as well. I can also plug the video camera into it to
> tape the video.

My camcorder have LCD panel that shows pilot's view to other people
on the field. It's a bit smaller than full size TV but lighter at the
same time :-).


Val.


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[rcpilot-devs] AGWPE remote...

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Just for the fun of it I had Peter connect to AGWPE on my server at home.
And naturally he was able to pick up the frames I was sending out.

What this means is that, people could follow someone elses flight through the net.
No video (for now ;-) ) but at least the telemetry data.

A possible setup would be using a mobile transmitter in a car at the field to send the data to a repeater.
Have AGWPE on a server somewhere pick up those packets and rebroadcast them to anyone that wants.

Just seems like a cool idea.

Re: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display.

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

I thought of that one as well. I just wasn't sure how we would get the data into Rcgs.
It would mean having some USB device or something that we can read from Rcgs.
Or maybe use Ethernet since we have all the nio stuff thanks to Peter.

Anyone want to tackle the hardware for that one?


>Another option to add:
>Video Receiver strength indication. RSSI signal generated by ground
>video receiver. And make it selectable - up to 4 receivers in case
>you guys decided to use diversity switch. It can be very simple - bar
>graph with 3 pixels for each receiver (red/yelow/green), or better
>yet single pixel with changing color.
>
>Val.

RE: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Ok that's an interesting idea.
Have two possible setups.

One for VRGlasse/TV,  one for computer displays
Again I will say let's make this for version 2.

Basically if we start adding too much we will never have a working version  in my opinion.

For now I think we should stick with 800x600 with the ability to set your on fonts/size.
And the lines etc should be thick enough to show up well through the video glasses.

We will have to chage the display properties on the laptops.
I don't know what a video card you have in your laptop.
But mine is an ATI and it has the option to add a taskbar item to quickly change displays.
So it's pretty effortless.


I really need to get all these ideas down somewhere so we have a road plan.
That will be one of my missions for this week.

Mike




*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 07/03/2004 at 7:38 AM Val Petrov wrote:

>Those are valid considerations. So possible solution is two options:
>1. VR glasses view (extra large fonts and thicker lines)
>2. Computer screen view - small fonts and ability to display video
>stream on the background.
>
>I agree about menus - they can be left same small size for both
>options.
>
>Val.

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

I guess it all depends on what the "Mission" is.
I'm trying to make RCGS be a general use application not only to be used as an overlay to video.

One person might want it to fly using the HUD.
Someone else might simply want to track their vehicle with it in the way an APRS application might over a map.

If you only want to know about how far away your plane is so you don't drift out of range, then tracker view is best suited for you.

It's also one of the reasons why I would like to come up with a standard for the communication side of it. So that it can be used in different environments.

I don't know about you but after 20-30 minutes of flying with the VR glasses on, my eyes get strained.
I have a splitter box ( http://www.savinglots.com/lotprod.asp?item=CEIAV400 ) and the video is also on a TV beside me.
It is also appreciated by the people around me since they like to see what I see as well. I can also plug the video camera into it to tape the video.
But if the plane is in view, I will fly it and simply glance down at the computer once in a while to see some data.

Or if it's on a planned route I will only watch the video on the TV and the computer (which use to run APRS software in it with the TinyTrack).

Mike




*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 07/03/2004 at 7:33 AM Val Petrov wrote:

>Ok, I did confuse tracker view with tracking indication in HUD view.
>Sorry about that. Let me ask you a question then: why do we need
>tracker view if we can show the same info in HUD view?
>Val.

Re: Video overlay, RE: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

Those are valid considerations. So possible solution is two options:
1. VR glasses view (extra large fonts and thicker lines)
2. Computer screen view - small fonts and ability to display video
stream on the background.

I agree about menus - they can be left same small size for both
options.

Val.



--- "Michael J. Pawlowsky" <mi...@vi...> wrote:
> 
> True...  or perhaps Rcgs can switch it for you.
> 
> Another preferences (Screen resolution) and switch it back when you
> quit.
> I don't know if that's possible in Java but I imagine it should be.
> 
> I'm just thinking about how much work it would take to change the
> fonts for Menus, Tabs etc.
> Or do we really care about the menus etc. when using the VR
> Glasses.
> Probably not. RCGS will be mostly used in full screen at that
> point.
> However if you do have to change something it means removing
> whatever head gear you have on or getting a co-pilot to do it for
> you.
> Mind you finding the computer might be a challenge at that point as
> well! :-)
> 
> For the guy designing something it also makes it a bit more
> challenging,
> he needs to realize that everything needs to be larger than he sees
> it on screen.
> Pretty hard to do when you don't have the VRGlasses.
> When if he is designing at 800x600 he can view it as if he was
> wearing the VRGlasses.
> 
> Does that make sense?
> 
> I just seems more natural to match the computer to the resolution
> of the display.
> Than trying to enlarge the components to try and make up for the
> lack or resolution in the display.
> 
> Also, what happends if you are not wearing the glasses. Than you
> loose a lot of space that you can't regain.
> 
> I understand the drawbacks of having the video on the computer. And
> it would probably never be my only display.
> However I do see a setup for instance with the video as part of the
> computer image using a capture card,
> and a TV monitor as well with only the video from a break box in
> case the computer crashes.
> 
> At one point I would like to get rid of the VRGlasses for a system
> in a trailer or something.
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 07/03/2004 at 7:09 AM Val Petrov wrote:
> 
> >Why not just make fonts bigger in 1024x768 resolution? It will
> have
> >the same effect. 1024x768 is probably most standard resolution on
> >laptops now. If you design views for 800x600 it whould require
> >switching into 800x600 mode every time you start RCGS.
> >Val.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

Ok, I did confuse tracker view with tracking indication in HUD view.
Sorry about that. Let me ask you a question then: why do we need
tracker view if we can show the same info in HUD view?
Val.

--- "Michael J. Pawlowsky" <mi...@vi...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Right... that's what it is doing. There is distance and bearing
> that tell you that in the tracker.
> I will add those in the tracker view in larger font as well as have
> them in the table.
> The plane icon is also rotated to show you what direction you are
> going in. So to come back home in tracker view you want the plane
> pointing to the center.
> 
> I also think the table should be able to be toggled on and off as
> well.
> 
> We could easily add that info to the HUD view as well with the
> arrow as you mentioned.
> Good idea.
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 07/03/2004 at 6:53 AM Val Petrov wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> That would mean we would have to send down the waypoint/track
> >> information to the ground station.
> >> Extra overhead in the frames, although it does not have to be
> >> refreshed very often.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO
> of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
>
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Re: Video overlay, RE: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

True...  or perhaps Rcgs can switch it for you.

Another preferences (Screen resolution) and switch it back when you quit.
I don't know if that's possible in Java but I imagine it should be.

I'm just thinking about how much work it would take to change the fonts for Menus, Tabs etc.
Or do we really care about the menus etc. when using the VR Glasses.
Probably not. RCGS will be mostly used in full screen at that point.
However if you do have to change something it means removing whatever head gear you have on or getting a co-pilot to do it for you.
Mind you finding the computer might be a challenge at that point as well! :-)

For the guy designing something it also makes it a bit more challenging,
he needs to realize that everything needs to be larger than he sees it on screen.
Pretty hard to do when you don't have the VRGlasses.
When if he is designing at 800x600 he can view it as if he was wearing the VRGlasses.

Does that make sense?

I just seems more natural to match the computer to the resolution of the display.
Than trying to enlarge the components to try and make up for the lack or resolution in the display.

Also, what happends if you are not wearing the glasses. Than you loose a lot of space that you can't regain.

I understand the drawbacks of having the video on the computer. And it would probably never be my only display.
However I do see a setup for instance with the video as part of the computer image using a capture card,
and a TV monitor as well with only the video from a break box in case the computer crashes.

At one point I would like to get rid of the VRGlasses for a system in a trailer or something.


Mike








*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 07/03/2004 at 7:09 AM Val Petrov wrote:

>Why not just make fonts bigger in 1024x768 resolution? It will have
>the same effect. 1024x768 is probably most standard resolution on
>laptops now. If you design views for 800x600 it whould require
>switching into 800x600 mode every time you start RCGS.
>Val.

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Right... that's what it is doing. There is distance and bearing that tell you that in the tracker.
I will add those in the tracker view in larger font as well as have them in the table.
The plane icon is also rotated to show you what direction you are going in. So to come back home in tracker view you want the plane pointing to the center.

I also think the table should be able to be toggled on and off as well.

We could easily add that info to the HUD view as well with the arrow as you mentioned.
Good idea.


Mike

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 07/03/2004 at 6:53 AM Val Petrov wrote:

>>
>> That would mean we would have to send down the waypoint/track
>> information to the ground station.
>> Extra overhead in the frames, although it does not have to be
>> refreshed very often.

Re: Video overlay, RE: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

Why not just make fonts bigger in 1024x768 resolution? It will have
the same effect. 1024x768 is probably most standard resolution on
laptops now. If you design views for 800x600 it whould require
switching into 800x600 mode every time you start RCGS.
Val.


--- "Michael J. Pawlowsky" <mi...@vi...> wrote:
> 
> I just took the VR Glasses out of winter storage and took a look at
> RCGS through them.
> 
> I tried it at 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768.
> 
> 1024x768 is just about impossible to make out any text. Menus, tabs
> whatever.
> 
> 800x600 I can make out most of the instruments etc. The smaller
> text is washed out, but I don't really need it, or the ones that
> are values we can increase in size.
> 
> 640x480 at least I can make out all the text, however it leave
> almost no space for video in the instrument view.
> At 640x480 the HUD is too big fro the screen.
> 
> 
> So I say we design the views for 800x600 however they should also
> be able to fit in 640x480.
> 
> 
> MikeP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO
> of
> GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
>
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Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Test Server does work by the way.
It simply does not send out GPS data. But it does send out altitude, speed, rpm, pitch, roll, course.
I don't want to work on it, as TelData will replace it.

Actually what I want to do next is have TelData incorporated into Rcgs when it is complete.

>* Update the TestServer so it actually works <g>

[rcpilot-devs] Prefs.java

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Ian:

Prefs.java is not used anymore right? 
Any reason to keep it around?

[rcpilot-devs] Another AX.25 data items

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

I did thought about other data items for AX.25 table.
Elevator/aileron servo demands - these will show instanteneous servo
positions. They will be calculated by reading RC pulses from RC
receiver. 
The center cross or circle in HUD display will be displaced up/down
left/right showing vehicle acceleration due to elevator and aileron
demands.

We can have it version 2.


Val.



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Re: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display.

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

Comments below:

> The instruments there are Course, Attitude (pitch and roll), Speed
> and Altitude.
> 
> We need to add Fuel, Battery Voltage, Temperature, Engine RPM,
> Engine Temp,
> GPS Satelites, GPS coordinates,  RSSI (receiver strength),  Speed
> over ground,  Course over ground, Distance from home, Direction to
> Vehicle.

I thought that Distance from home and Direction to vehicle is part of
the tracker, no? I may be got confused what you guys call a tracker.
Insead of direction to vehicle, we better make it direction from
vehicle to home (less calculations for pilot to make).


Another option to add:
Video Receiver strength indication. RSSI signal generated by ground
video receiver. And make it selectable - up to 4 receivers in case
you guys decided to use diversity switch. It can be very simple - bar
graph with 3 pixels for each receiver (red/yelow/green), or better
yet single pixel with changing color.

Val.


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Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Val P. <val...@ya...>]

> 
> That would mean we would have to send down the waypoint/track
> information to the ground station.
> Extra overhead in the frames, although it does not have to be
> refreshed very often.

In a simplest yet most usefull version tracker will show information
about starting (take off) point. No extra frames will be required in
telemetry. You just have to store GPS coordinates during take off
(RCGS power up) and then calculate distance/heading to this start
point from incoming GPS coordinates.


 
> I say we leave that for version 2.

Following arbitrary  waypoint course - yes, leave it for version 2.
But tracking to take off point is probably the most helpful
information derived from GPS coordinates. I'd strongly suggest to
have it in version 1.

Val.
 




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[rcpilot-devs] User Prefs/Settings

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

I forgot that we also need to have the font selection in the settings.
(with the colors I guess under Appearance)
We will simply have 3 font settings.

Small
Medium
Large


I'm not crazy about the names for these and am open to suggestions.
I'm simply trying not to have 1 type of font for every type of data displayed.

Perhaps instead of tabs the way to do this is similar to the Preferences in Netscape.
A category browser on the left, the values etc on the right.
This will leave a lot of room for future additions.


MIke

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

That would mean we would have to send down the waypoint/track information to the ground station.
Extra overhead in the frames, although it does not have to be refreshed very often.

I say we leave that for version 2.
It will require the communications manager module in the vehicle to be able to do stuff like that.

To start with, we wil probably be using some "not very smart" type of communications manager.
Unless you have something that will send telemetry, and gps strings?

Mike



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 07/03/2004 at 6:02 AM Val Petrov wrote:

>Let's use:
>http://www.tsg1.com/images/HUD.pdf
>as example. Notice blue arrow on top of heading scale (horizontal
>scale on top of the screen). This arrow shows heading to the
>destiantion (tracking). It will be nice to add distance to the
>destination - let's say to the right of the scale. That's my
>suggestion for the tracker.
>Val.

Re: [rcpilot-devs] Tracker view

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

Ian, before moving on to something else.
Can you get the instuments to work again. As well as the changing of maps.

Thanks,
Mike


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 07/03/2004 at 5:51 AM Ian Dallas wrote:

>I'd be happy to take a stab at the Tracker view, providing someone can...
>
>* Update the TestServer so it actually works <g>
>
>* Give me a set of more-or-less complete requirements (including what 
>users will be able to customize).

Re: Video overlay, RE: [rcpilot-devs] HUD display

[Michael J. P. <mi...@vi...>]

I just took the VR Glasses out of winter storage and took a look at RCGS through them.

I tried it at 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768.

1024x768 is just about impossible to make out any text. Menus, tabs whatever.

800x600 I can make out most of the instruments etc. The smaller text is washed out, but I don't really need it, or the ones that are values we can increase in size.

640x480 at least I can make out all the text, however it leave almost no space for video in the instrument view.
At 640x480 the HUD is too big fro the screen.


So I say we design the views for 800x600 however they should also be able to fit in 640x480.


MikeP