From: games.bazin <gam...@or...> - 2015-10-24 17:12:28
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Greetings all. Short introduction. Im french (so please excuse my non native english). I'm a long time and regular 1856 player. I usually play face to face with a group of friends. I have also organized a couple of 1856 pbem games back in 2000-2002. I've just discovered 18xx rails 1.9.0 a couple a days ago, and my first comment will be a big congratulation to the authors for the amazing work. It's nearly perfect. I've digged back two of my old pbem games to check if rails 1.9.0 would behave normally. Here are my findings (some anomalies and a wish list). I understand that a 2.0 version is under development, so maybe it can help for that. I tryied 1.9.0 under linux on one game, and under windows for the second game if it matters. note : I know that some rules are suject to interpretation, and ymmv. Please let me know if what i consider an anomaly below is in fact a feature :) anomaly 1 : seen in both games : In 1.9.0, the +20 bonus from the port disapears when the first T5 train is bought. According to the rules, the private companies disapear when T5 is bought, but the +20 bonus continues to exist and disapears when the first T6 train is bought. reference : GLSC paragraph on page 5 of the rules anomaly 2 : seen in both games : situation : company A must buy a train and decides to it from company B (lets say a T4 for example). Assume company A has only $100 in cash. 1.9.0 displays a text like : "you may add up to $250" (i.e. difference between T4 nominal value and cash availble in A). According to the rules, the president may not add money to buy a train if company A buys from company B, only if it buys from Bank or Open Market reference : paragraph 5 on page 19 note : this behaviour appears only if company A must buy a train. If company A already owns a train and tries to buy another train from company B, the message isnt displayed. anomaly 3 : seen in both games : situation : at CGR formation, GW has 3 loans and posseses only $34 in cash. 1.9.0 offers to the president the possiblity to repay from 0 to 3 loans. According to the rules, the president should only be offered the choice of 0 or 3, but not values in between (1 or 2 are not allowed in this situation). reference : loan repayment paragraph page 22 ("the player may repay the remainder") anomaly 4 : seen in both games : company tokens are not properly displayed on the gray toronto tile #124 anomaly 5 : seen only in game 1, situation didnt arise in game 2 : situation : during the operating round of company A, his president must sell actions from company B to raise money according to forced sale rule. as a result, this changes the position of company B on the stock market (drops to lower values) 1.9.0 doesnt update the company operating order (behaves has if B was still in it's original position before the sale) According to the rules, public companies operate in share value order reference : operating round paragraph on page 14 anomaly 6 : seen only in game 1, situation didnt arise in game 2 : situation : during an operating round, after T6 has been bought, a company is in C11 ($30) and has no train. It thus enters the void area and disapears. 1.9.0 doesnt update the certificate limit according to the new (lower) number of available companies reference : 4th paragraph on page 6 of the rules anomaly 7 : seen only in game 2, maybe I didnt pay enough attention in game 1 : situation : during stock round, before the purchage of the first T6, player's worth is sometime wrongly displayed at the begining of the stock round. Exemple: Bruce has $117 cash and owns 40% LPS. LPS is worth $100 (H4) and has $300 loans, therefore reducing its value to $70. All private are already sold. Thus, Bruce's worth should be $117+4*$70=$397 but 1.9.0 displays $437 Note that if you then save and reload the game, the correct $397 value is displayed. anomaly 8 : seen only in game 2, situation didnt arise in game 1 : situation : bankrupcy. during an operating round, forced sales, the president has $36 cash, must raise more cash but cannot sell anything. 1.9.0 ends leaving $36 in the president's cash and worth According to the rules, the president's cash should be reduced to 0 reference : bakruptcy paragraph on page 21 anomaly 9 : seen only in game 2, situation didnt arise in game 1 : situation : CGR formation. After all is decided, 5% shares are used. 1.9.0 puts 30% in the open market, while it should have put 25% in the open market and 5% in the bank. whishlist 1 : Add a more general moderator option that allows to transfer shares between bank and open market, and that allows to change the position of the shares on the open market. whishlist 2 : During the stock round, in the game status - stock round window, add a "-" to indicate that a player has already sold from a given company. Thus, "10%-" means that players owns 10% but has already sold from that company, "50%P-" means that the president owns 50% but has already sold from that company, and "-" means that the players owns 0% and has already sold from that company. The goal is that when player X plays, he knows what player Y is or isnt allowed to buy. Remove all the "-" at the end of the stock round, during the operating round. That's it. I hope this helps. Keep up the good job ! Thanks, Eric. |
From: Martin B. <dr....@t-...> - 2015-10-24 17:44:05
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Am 24.10.2015 um 19:12 schrieb games.bazin: > > Greetings all. > > > > Short introduction. > > Im french (so please excuse my non native english). I'm a long time > and regular 1856 player. I usually play face to face with a group of > friends. I have also organized a couple of 1856 pbem games back in > 2000-2002. > > > > I've just discovered 18xx rails 1.9.0 a couple a days ago, and my > first comment will be a big congratulation to the authors for the > amazing work. It's nearly perfect. > > > > I've digged back two of my old pbem games to check if rails 1.9.0 > would behave normally. Here are my findings (some anomalies and a wish > list). > > I understand that a 2.0 version is under development, so maybe it can > help for that. > > I tryied 1.9.0 under linux on one game, and under windows for the > second game if it matters. > > > > note : I know that some rules are suject to interpretation, and ymmv. > Please let me know if what i consider an anomaly below is in fact a > feature :) > > > > anomaly 1 : seen in both games : > > In 1.9.0, the +20 bonus from the port disapears when the first T5 > train is bought. > > According to the rules, the private companies disapear when T5 is > bought, but the +20 bonus continues to exist and disapears when the > first T6 train is bought. > > reference : GLSC paragraph on page 5 of the rules > > > > anomaly 2 : seen in both games : > > situation : company A must buy a train and decides to it from company > B (lets say a T4 for example). Assume company A has only $100 in cash. > > 1.9.0 displays a text like : "you may add up to $250" (i.e. > difference between T4 nominal value and cash availble in A). > > According to the rules, the president may not add money to buy a train > if company A buys from company B, only if it buys from Bank or Open > Market > > reference : paragraph 5 on page 19 > > note : this behaviour appears only if company A must buy a train. If > company A already owns a train and tries to buy another train from > company B, the message isnt displayed. > > > > anomaly 3 : seen in both games : > > situation : at CGR formation, GW has 3 loans and posseses only $34 in > cash. > > 1.9.0 offers to the president the possiblity to repay from 0 to 3 loans. > > According to the rules, the president should only be offered the > choice of 0 or 3, but not values in between (1 or 2 are not allowed in > this situation). > > reference : loan repayment paragraph page 22 ("the player may repay > the remainder") > > > > anomaly 4 : seen in both games : > > company tokens are not properly displayed on the gray toronto tile #124 > > > > anomaly 5 : seen only in game 1, situation didnt arise in game 2 : > > situation : during the operating round of company A, his president > must sell actions from company B to raise money according to forced > sale rule. > > as a result, this changes the position of company B on the stock > market (drops to lower values) > > 1.9.0 doesnt update the company operating order (behaves has if B was > still in it's original position before the sale) > > According to the rules, public companies operate in share value order > > reference : operating round paragraph on page 14 > > > > anomaly 6 : seen only in game 1, situation didnt arise in game 2 : > > situation : during an operating round, after T6 has been bought, a > company is in C11 ($30) and has no train. It thus enters the void area > and disapears. > > 1.9.0 doesnt update the certificate limit according to the new (lower) > number of available companies > > reference : 4th paragraph on page 6 of the rules > > > > anomaly 7 : seen only in game 2, maybe I didnt pay enough attention > in game 1 : > > situation : during stock round, before the purchage of the first T6, > player's worth is sometime wrongly displayed at the begining of the > stock round. > > Exemple: Bruce has $117 cash and owns 40% LPS. LPS is worth $100 (H4) > and has $300 loans, therefore reducing its value to $70. All private > are already sold. Thus, Bruce's worth should be $117+4*$70=$397 but > 1.9.0 displays $437 > > Note that if you then save and reload the game, the correct $397 value > is displayed. > > > > anomaly 8 : seen only in game 2, situation didnt arise in game 1 : > > situation : bankrupcy. during an operating round, forced sales, the > president has $36 cash, must raise more cash but cannot sell anything. > > 1.9.0 ends leaving $36 in the president's cash and worth > > According to the rules, the president's cash should be reduced to 0 > > reference : bakruptcy paragraph on page 21 > > > > anomaly 9 : seen only in game 2, situation didnt arise in game 1 : > > situation : CGR formation. After all is decided, 5% shares are used. > 1.9.0 puts 30% in the open market, while it should have put 25% in the > open market and 5% in the bank. > > > > whishlist 1 : > > Add a more general moderator option that allows to transfer shares > between bank and open market, and that allows to change the position > of the shares on the open market. > > > > whishlist 2 : > > During the stock round, in the game status - stock round window, add a > "-" to indicate that a player has already sold from a given company. > > Thus, "10%-" means that players owns 10% but has already sold from > that company, "50%P-" means that the president owns 50% but has > already sold from that company, and "-" means that the players owns 0% > and has already sold from that company. > > The goal is that when player X plays, he knows what player Y is or > isnt allowed to buy. > > Remove all the "-" at the end of the stock round, during the operating > round. > > > > > > That's it. I hope this helps. > > Keep up the good job ! > > > > Thanks, > > Eric. > > Hi Eric, thanks for the work, can you by chance make available the save games from your 2 games ? And further more, if its possible please try to replay the games with 2.0 (the release candidate ?) and make those save games available also to us ? Would help us a lot in debugging and correcting things. Kind Regards Martin P.s. Thanks on behalf of the team for your compliments. |
From: John D. G. <jd...@di...> - 2015-10-24 23:15:56
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On 2015-10-24 10:12, games.bazin wrote: > anomaly 1 : seen in both games : > > In 1.9.0, the +20 bonus from the port disapears when the first T5 train > is bought. > > According to the rules, the private companies [disappear] when T5 is > bought, but the +20 bonus continues to exist and [disappears] when the > first T6 train is bought. > > reference : GLSC paragraph on page 5 of the rules I believe you're correct, this is a bug which has always been there. > anomaly 2 : seen in both games : > > situation : company A must buy a train and decides to it from company B > (lets say a T4 for example). Assume company A has only $100 in cash. > > 1.9.0 displays a text like : "you may add up to $250" (i.e. difference > between T4 nominal value and cash availble in A). > > According to the rules, the president may not add money to buy a train > if company A buys from company B, only if it buys from Bank or Open Market > > reference : paragraph 5 on page 19 This also is a bug, and probably came from 1830. (The rule about this situation in 1830 can be read both ways -- depending on whether or not you accept Darwin Bromley's corrections published in THE GENERAL.) > anomaly 3 : seen in both games : > > situation : at CGR formation, GW has 3 loans and posseses only $34 in cash. > > 1.9.0 offers to the president the possiblity to repay from 0 to 3 loans. > > According to the rules, the president should only be offered the choice > of 0 or 3, but not values in between (1 or 2 are not allowed in this > situation). > > reference : loan repayment paragraph page 22 ("the player may repay the > remainder") I argued this point when the code for CGR formation was being written, and I agree with you that it should work your way. (In practice, it doesn't matter because no one ever "partly rescues" a company except by accident.) I will support a motion to change the program to work your way. > anomaly 4 : seen in both games : > > company tokens are not properly displayed on the gray toronto tile #124 I haven't seen this. If it happens it is a bug. > anomaly 5 : seen only in game 1, situation didnt arise in game 2 : > > situation : during the operating round of company A, his president must > sell [shares of] company B to raise money according to forced sale rule. > > as a result, this changes the position of company B on the stock market > (drops to lower values) > > 1.9.0 doesnt update the company operating order (behaves has if B was > still in it's original position before the sale) > > According to the rules, public companies operate in share value order > > reference : operating round paragraph on page 14 I haven't seen this. If it happens it is a bug. > anomaly 6 : seen only in game 1, situation didnt arise in game 2 : > > situation : during an operating round, after T6 has been bought, a > company is in C11 ($30) and has no train. It thus enters the void area > and disapears. This is correct behavior. The company's price enters the Closed box as soon as it fails to pay a dividend, so it does not get a chance to save itself by buying a train. > 1.9.0 doesnt update the certificate limit according to the new (lower) > number of available companies > > reference : 4th paragraph on page 6 of the rules Good catch! This is a bug. Steve Thomas's FAQ for the game agrees. > anomaly 7 : seen only in game 2, maybe I didnt pay enough attention in > game 1 : > > situation : during stock round, before the [purchase] of the first T6, > player's worth is sometime wrongly displayed at the begining of the > stock round. > > Exemple: Bruce has $117 cash and owns 40% LPS. LPS is worth $100 (H4) > and has $300 loans, therefore reducing its value to $70. All private are > already sold. Thus, Bruce's worth should be $117+4*$70=$397 but 1.9.0 > displays $437 > > Note that if you then save and reload the game, the correct $397 value > is displayed. Good catch. The share price of $100 is correct, but the share value should include the reduction since it would be counted that way if the game ended now. > anomaly 8 : seen only in game 2, situation didnt arise in game 1 : > > situation : bankrupcy. during an operating round, forced sales, the > president has $36 cash, must raise more cash but cannot sell anything. > > 1.9.0 ends leaving $36 in the president's cash and worth > > According to the rules, the president's cash should be reduced to 0 > > reference : [bankruptcy] paragraph on page 21 This is a bug, and probably applies to most or all games, not just 1856. > anomaly 9 : seen only in game 2, situation didnt arise in game 1 : > > situation : CGR formation. After all is decided, 5% shares are used. > 1.9.0 puts 30% in the open market, while it should have put 25% in the > open market and 5% in the [initial offering]. I haven't seen this. If it happens it is a bug. > [wishlist] 1 : > > Add a more general moderator option that allows to transfer shares > between bank and open market, and that allows to change the position of > the shares on the open market. I agree. Allow any certificate to be moved between any two hands. > [wishlist] 2 : > > During the stock round, in the game status - stock round window, add a > "-" to indicate that a player has already sold from a given company. > > Thus, "10%-" means that [player] owns 10% but has already sold from that > company, "50%P-" means that the president owns 50% but has already sold > from that company, and "-" means that the [player] owns 0% and has > already sold from that company. > > The goal is that when player X plays, he knows what player Y is or isnt > allowed to buy. > > Remove all the "-" at the end of the stock round, during the operating > round. This would be OK but is not really necessary, because you can use the Events Log window to see who has sold what. |