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From: Jim B. <jim...@ya...> - 2010-01-30 00:45:30
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Another comment re: ease-of-use in simply launching rails- re: my.properties for rails options, and java command-line options (whether buried in bat/sh files or not) - this approach can be very quickly complicated by environmental issues- - the user's current-directory when rails is launched (eg, where rails is launched, with different users and tables), - user difficulty of indirect command associations to java/rails command lines throughout, vs normal windows/mac application preferences and etc - running multiple rails versions on one machine- but wanting to maintain these preferences, once, across versions - and, finally, but most problematically- installs and upgrades: this fixup needs to be done by the pbem novice, each and every time they download a new rails package/version. (to get going properly in the first place, and then to upgrade later.) None of this is at all familiar to the novice- nor necessarily trivial, either. We should hope non-experts will be fine with Rails' defaults, as is; changing them gets very awkward, quickly, in practice. On the other hand- on balance, is there a substantial benefit for Rails' current file-naming default, where all names are coined within the current user's timezone? (Rather than simply GMT, for example.) best, - jim |
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From: Jim B. <ji...@ko...> - 2010-01-30 00:54:01
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Setting up my.properties, is /harder/ for users than setting the UTC timezone argument. (I still can't get it working, myself.) I've spent more time helping people with problems related to this one default, than anything else about using rails. sigh- oh, well. - jim |
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2010-01-30 01:15:28
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I gave up on using the exterior my.properties file due to path issues (I use Windows XP, Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux variously, and sometimes connect from library workstations) and started editing the one inside the jar file instead. -- Chris Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Jim Black <ji...@ko...> wrote: > > Setting up my.properties, is /harder/ for users than setting the UTC > timezone argument. (I still can't get it working, myself.) > > I've spent more time helping people with problems related to this one > default, than anything else about using rails. > > sigh- oh, well. > > - jim > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation > Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the > business > Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts > Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > |
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From: Steve U. <ste...@gm...> - 2010-01-30 02:22:00
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On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote: > I gave up on using the exterior my.properties file due to path issues (I use > Windows XP, Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux variously, and sometimes connect from > library workstations) and started editing the one inside the jar file > instead. So I have to ask: how does one do that? Steve Undy st...@ro... |
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2010-01-30 02:43:18
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On linux, it just opens up like any directory with files inside. I don't know how to do it on Windows or Mac. -- Chris Shaffer Please consider the environment before printing this email. On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Steve Undy <ste...@gm...> wrote: > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm... > > wrote: >> I gave up on using the exterior my.properties file due to path >> issues (I use >> Windows XP, Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux variously, and sometimes >> connect from >> library workstations) and started editing the one inside the jar file >> instead. > > So I have to ask: how does one do that? > > Steve Undy > st...@ro... > > --- > --- > --- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation > Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the > business > Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term > contracts > Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call > away. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel |
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From: brett l. <wak...@gm...> - 2010-01-30 04:02:49
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Jar files are just glorified zip files. You can open them with any tool that allows you to view/extract the contents of a .zip file. ---Brett. On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote: > On linux, it just opens up like any directory with files inside. I > don't know how to do it on Windows or Mac. > > -- > Chris Shaffer > > Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > On Jan 29, 2010, at 6:21 PM, Steve Undy <ste...@gm...> > wrote: > >> On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm... >> > wrote: >>> I gave up on using the exterior my.properties file due to path >>> issues (I use >>> Windows XP, Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux variously, and sometimes >>> connect from >>> library workstations) and started editing the one inside the jar file >>> instead. >> >> So I have to ask: how does one do that? >> >> Steve Undy >> st...@ro... >> >> --- >> --- >> --- >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation >> Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the >> business >> Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term >> contracts >> Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call >> away. >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com >> _______________________________________________ >> Rails-devel mailing list >> Rai...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation > Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business > Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts > Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > |
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From: Erik V. <eri...@xs...> - 2010-01-30 15:19:04
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It's clear that Rails currently lacks two important features, which make it hard to use for computer novices: 1. There is no good and hardened installation procedure. Ideally, installation would proceed smoothly by running an executable, as so many other applications have. I suppose we would need separate versions for Windows, Max and Linux then. 2. The properties we're talking about cannot be modified via the GUI, and remembered afterwards. The latter requirement implies, that the properties would be held in a file outside the jar. The installation procedure should take care of setting that up correctly. So, all we need is a volunteer who knows how to implement these requirements, and can make building such installation sets a repeatable process. Anyone? Erik. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...] Sent: Saturday 30 January 2010 01:43 To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Default timezone Another comment re: ease-of-use in simply launching rails- re: my.properties for rails options, and java command-line options (whether buried in bat/sh files or not) - this approach can be very quickly complicated by environmental issues- - the user's current-directory when rails is launched (eg, where rails is launched, with different users and tables), - user difficulty of indirect command associations to java/rails command lines throughout, vs normal windows/mac application preferences and etc - running multiple rails versions on one machine- but wanting to maintain these preferences, once, across versions - and, finally, but most problematically- installs and upgrades: this fixup needs to be done by the pbem novice, each and every time they download a new rails package/version. (to get going properly in the first place, and then to upgrade later.) None of this is at all familiar to the novice- nor necessarily trivial, either. We should hope non-experts will be fine with Rails' defaults, as is; changing them gets very awkward, quickly, in practice. On the other hand- on balance, is there a substantial benefit for Rails' current file-naming default, where all names are coined within the current user's timezone? (Rather than simply GMT, for example.) best, - jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The Planet: dedicated and managed hosting, cloud storage, colocation Stay online with enterprise data centers and the best network in the business Choose flexible plans and management services without long-term contracts Personal 24x7 support from experience hosting pros just a phone call away. http://p.sf.net/sfu/theplanet-com _______________________________________________ Rails-devel mailing list Rai...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel |
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From: Freek D. <sf_...@ma...> - 2010-01-30 17:20:13
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Erik Vos wrote: > It's clear that Rails currently lacks two important features, which make it > hard to use for computer novices: > > 1. There is no good and hardened installation procedure. > 2. The properties we're talking about cannot be modified via the GUI, As for #1, I suggest to distribute a .exe for Windows, a .app for Mac OS X and a jar for Linux. If it is an applications that can be moved around, that would be useful. As for #2, that would require (a) a GUI interface for preferences and (b) the preference file to be in the OS/user-specific place. As for 2b, are these the correct paths? Windows: ~\Application Data\Rails\preferences.ini Mac OS X: ~/Library/Preferences/net.sf.rails.18xx.ini Unix: $HOME/.rails/preferences.ini This also raises two questions on the log files. What is the best location for these? The "official" (or at least regular) locations are: Windows: ~\Application Data\Rails\18xx.log Mac OS X: ~/Library/Logs/18xx.log Unix: $HOME/.rails/18xx.log So far I have not done so, but someone who plays multiple games at once may want a separate log file for each game. Is that true, and if so, where should it be stored? Asked as a question in the "new game" dialog? > So, all we need is a volunteer who knows how to implement these > requirements, and can make building such installation sets a repeatable > process. Anyone? I'm willing to have a look at #1 and #2b, but #2a (the GUI) will take some time, and I can not make any promises about a time frame except for "sometime this decade, hopefully this year". Regards, Freek |
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From: Erik V. <eri...@xs...> - 2010-01-30 23:18:38
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> 1. There is no good and hardened installation procedure. > 2. The properties we're talking about cannot be modified via the GUI, As for #1, I suggest to distribute a .exe for Windows, a .app for Mac OS X and a jar for Linux. If it is an applications that can be moved around, that would be useful. As for #2, that would require (a) a GUI interface for preferences and (b) the preference file to be in the OS/user-specific place. (...) I'm willing to have a look at #1 and #2b, but #2a (the GUI) will take some time, and I can not make any promises about a time frame except for "sometime this decade, hopefully this year". ------ [EV] Sounds good. Perhaps I can help out with the GUI, but not too soon. Erik. |
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