Thread: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856

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At the point of the attached save file, Biff should be, but is not, allowed
to buy a share of CV from the bank pool.

That's because the price per share is $200 and he doesn't have enough money
for a share. No bug here.

Mike Bourke

Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com

Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...] 
Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 1:02 PM
To: rai...@li...
Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856

At the point of the attached save file, Biff should be, but is not, allowed
to buy a share of CV from the bank pool.

---
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Virus Database (VPS): 120427-1, 28/04/2012
Tested on: 29/04/2012 3:15:48 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
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It is not a bug, however it highlights a subtle problem of the Rails UI: 
I first thought that it is bug too, as I checked the available cash in 
the row (that is the CV company cash) and not the column (the cash 
position of the active player).

I remember that I had problems with that before and if there will be a 
redefine of the UI we could address that: The information about the 
company cash is nice during the Stock Round however it should not lead 
players to confuse it with the essential display of player cash.

Another more general thought: Would someone prefer to have players in 
rows during the SR? There are two principles conflicting: Have companies 
in rows (both in SR and OR) or have the acting entity (players in SR, 
companies in OR) in rows.

Stefan

On 04/29/2012 07:15 AM, Mike Bourke wrote:
> That's because the price per share is $200 and he doesn't have enough money
> for a share. No bug here.
>
> Mike Bourke
>
> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
>
> Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 1:02 PM
> To: rai...@li...
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856
>
> At the point of the attached save file, Biff should be, but is not, allowed
> to buy a share of CV from the bank pool.
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 120427-1, 28/04/2012
> Tested on: 29/04/2012 3:15:48 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
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> _______________________________________________
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 7:02 AM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856
> 
> It is not a bug, however it highlights a subtle problem of the Rails UI:
> I first thought that it is bug too, as I checked the available cash in the
row
> (that is the CV company cash) and not the column (the cash position of the
> active player).
> 
> I remember that I had problems with that before and if there will be a
> redefine of the UI we could address that: The information about the
> company cash is nice during the Stock Round however it should not lead
> players to confuse it with the essential display of player cash.

I don't see a real problem here.  
A conceivable change would be to replace [company] Cash by Treasury
(abbreviated to Treas.).  In both windows, of course.  Would that help?
Personally, I still prefer Cash.  One word to represent money anywhere
(including the Bank).

Erik.

Erik:
that is a good idea: I would prefer Treasury (not abbreviated) unless 
this skews the UI? Any more opinions on that?

I will wait until tomorrow for the 1.7.4 release if there are at least 
more than three supports for that I would add that change to 1.7.4.
Stefan

On 05/03/2012 01:47 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 7:02 AM
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856
>>
>> It is not a bug, however it highlights a subtle problem of the Rails UI:
>> I first thought that it is bug too, as I checked the available cash in the
> row
>> (that is the CV company cash) and not the column (the cash position of the
>> active player).
>>
>> I remember that I had problems with that before and if there will be a
>> redefine of the UI we could address that: The information about the
>> company cash is nice during the Stock Round however it should not lead
>> players to confuse it with the essential display of player cash.
>
> I don't see a real problem here.
> A conceivable change would be to replace [company] Cash by Treasury
> (abbreviated to Treas.).  In both windows, of course.  Would that help?
> Personally, I still prefer Cash.  One word to represent money anywhere
> (including the Bank).
>
> Erik.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Hi guys,

Rails is making mistakes in applying the red-to-red bonus in our 
four-player game of 18EU.  There seem to be two kinds of mistakes:

1)  It incorrectly awards the bonus for a route that begins in a red 
area, runs through Hamburg (which is a red area) but does not end there, 
and continues on to finish in a non-red area.

2)  It applies the bonus three times for runs that begin and end in red 
areas and include Hamburg in the middle of the route.

I've attached two save files to illustrate the phenomena.

In the first (18EU_20120501_1602_Jim.rails), you can see a route Rails 
has chosen for DR.  If you "Click for more details" near the top of the 
map window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is set to 60.  But the 
route has one endpoint in Paris, which is not a red region, so there 
should be no red-to-red bonus.

In the second (18EU_20120501_1600_Jim.rails), you can also see a route 
Rails has chosen for DR.  If you "Click for more details" near the top 
of the map window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is 180 when it 
should only be 60.

James:
thanks for reporting this bug.

Goderich strikes again: The recent changes from Erik on the definition
of the tile impacted the revenue calculation for Hamburg in 18EU (as 
loading the save game for example in Rails 1.6.0 shows).
This made an omission in the definition of the OffboardModifiers visible
I fixed that in rails1.7.x branch and will be included into a new bug 
fix release today or tomorrow.

This reminds me that I have to add the ability test cases for revenue 
calculation at some point in time.

Stefan

On 05/01/2012 06:07 PM, James Romano wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Rails is making mistakes in applying the red-to-red bonus in our
> four-player game of 18EU. There seem to be two kinds of mistakes:
>
> 1) It incorrectly awards the bonus for a route that begins in a red
> area, runs through Hamburg (which is a red area) but does not end there,
> and continues on to finish in a non-red area.
>
> 2) It applies the bonus three times for runs that begin and end in red
> areas and include Hamburg in the middle of the route.
>
> I've attached two save files to illustrate the phenomena.
>
> In the first (18EU_20120501_1602_Jim.rails), you can see a route Rails
> has chosen for DR. If you "Click for more details" near the top of the
> map window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is set to 60. But the
> route has one endpoint in Paris, which is not a red region, so there
> should be no red-to-red bonus.
>
> In the second (18EU_20120501_1600_Jim.rails), you can also see a route
> Rails has chosen for DR. If you "Click for more details" near the top of
> the map window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is 180 when it
> should only be 60.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

In the second instance, I'm guessing that it applies the bonus for
CityA - Hamburg, Hamburg - CityB, and CityA - CityB.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:07 AM, James Romano <rom...@gm...> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Rails is making mistakes in applying the red-to-red bonus in our four-player
> game of 18EU.  There seem to be two kinds of mistakes:
>
> 1)  It incorrectly awards the bonus for a route that begins in a red area,
> runs through Hamburg (which is a red area) but does not end there, and
> continues on to finish in a non-red area.
>
> 2)  It applies the bonus three times for runs that begin and end in red
> areas and include Hamburg in the middle of the route.
>
> I've attached two save files to illustrate the phenomena.
>
> In the first (18EU_20120501_1602_Jim.rails), you can see a route Rails has
> chosen for DR.  If you "Click for more details" near the top of the map
> window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is set to 60.  But the route
> has one endpoint in Paris, which is not a red region, so there should be no
> red-to-red bonus.
>
> In the second (18EU_20120501_1600_Jim.rails), you can also see a route Rails
> has chosen for DR.  If you "Click for more details" near the top of the map
> window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is 180 when it should only be
> 60.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

That was our guess, too.

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>wrote:

> In the second instance, I'm guessing that it applies the bonus for
> CityA - Hamburg, Hamburg - CityB, and CityA - CityB.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 9:07 AM, James Romano <rom...@gm...>
> wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Rails is making mistakes in applying the red-to-red bonus in our
> four-player
> > game of 18EU.  There seem to be two kinds of mistakes:
> >
> > 1)  It incorrectly awards the bonus for a route that begins in a red
> area,
> > runs through Hamburg (which is a red area) but does not end there, and
> > continues on to finish in a non-red area.
> >
> > 2)  It applies the bonus three times for runs that begin and end in red
> > areas and include Hamburg in the middle of the route.
> >
> > I've attached two save files to illustrate the phenomena.
> >
> > In the first (18EU_20120501_1602_Jim.rails), you can see a route Rails
> has
> > chosen for DR.  If you "Click for more details" near the top of the map
> > window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is set to 60.  But the
> route
> > has one endpoint in Paris, which is not a red region, so there should be
> no
> > red-to-red bonus.
> >
> > In the second (18EU_20120501_1600_Jim.rails), you can also see a route
> Rails
> > has chosen for DR.  If you "Click for more details" near the top of the
> map
> > window, you can see that the red-to-red bonus is 180 when it should only
> be
> > 60.
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

I think transforming from rows to columns, or vice versa, based on
context, would be a mistake.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> It is not a bug, however it highlights a subtle problem of the Rails UI:
> I first thought that it is bug too, as I checked the available cash in
> the row (that is the CV company cash) and not the column (the cash
> position of the active player).
>
> I remember that I had problems with that before and if there will be a
> redefine of the UI we could address that: The information about the
> company cash is nice during the Stock Round however it should not lead
> players to confuse it with the essential display of player cash.
>
> Another more general thought: Would someone prefer to have players in
> rows during the SR? There are two principles conflicting: Have companies
> in rows (both in SR and OR) or have the acting entity (players in SR,
> companies in OR) in rows.
>
> Stefan
>
> On 04/29/2012 07:15 AM, Mike Bourke wrote:
>> That's because the price per share is $200 and he doesn't have enough money
>> for a share. No bug here.
>>
>> Mike Bourke
>>
>> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
>>
>> Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>> Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 1:02 PM
>> To: rai...@li...
>> Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856
>>
>> At the point of the attached save file, Biff should be, but is not, allowed
>> to buy a share of CV from the bank pool.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>> Virus Database (VPS): 120427-1, 28/04/2012
>> Tested on: 29/04/2012 3:15:48 PM
>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Agreed, I personally think player cash in columns and company cash in
rows makes sense but I might be blinded from having played so many
games via Rails :p

On 2 May 2012 16:29, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
> I think transforming from rows to columns, or vice versa, based on
> context, would be a mistake.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
>> It is not a bug, however it highlights a subtle problem of the Rails UI:
>> I first thought that it is bug too, as I checked the available cash in
>> the row (that is the CV company cash) and not the column (the cash
>> position of the active player).
>>
>> I remember that I had problems with that before and if there will be a
>> redefine of the UI we could address that: The information about the
>> company cash is nice during the Stock Round however it should not lead
>> players to confuse it with the essential display of player cash.
>>
>> Another more general thought: Would someone prefer to have players in
>> rows during the SR? There are two principles conflicting: Have companies
>> in rows (both in SR and OR) or have the acting entity (players in SR,
>> companies in OR) in rows.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>> On 04/29/2012 07:15 AM, Mike Bourke wrote:
>>> That's because the price per share is $200 and he doesn't have enough money
>>> for a share. No bug here.
>>>
>>> Mike Bourke
>>>
>>> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
>>>
>>> Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>>> Sent: Sunday, 29 April 2012 1:02 PM
>>> To: rai...@li...
>>> Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.7.3 bug - 1856
>>>
>>> At the point of the attached save file, Biff should be, but is not, allowed
>>> to buy a share of CV from the bank pool.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
>>> Virus Database (VPS): 120427-1, 28/04/2012
>>> Tested on: 29/04/2012 3:15:48 PM
>>> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>>> Rai...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
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