From: John D. G. <jd...@di...> - 2015-08-01 20:32:23
|
Playtest report of 1837 under Rails 2.0.beta3 on 2015-08-01. jdg 1. After filling in the first three players' names, using the mouse to select the blank for player 4 doesn't work. I can get there by hitting Tab, but not by using the mouse. 2. The map looks correct except for some cosmetic problems. a) There is NO visual indication of Italy (marked off by a red line in Lonny Orgler's version of the printed map), which becomes off limits when a 4-train is purchased. I suggest showing it by making those hexes a little darker than the usual starting pale-green color (say RGB 62,193,118). I would also make Bosnia a lighter shade of yellow so as to avoid giving the impression that green tiles are to be laid there (as in the Erie and B&O home hexes in 1830). b) Coal company start hexes show a "dit" (sometimes badly drawn) but do not show either their company name or run value (until the company is purchased; then a black "token" is placed). The run values are adequately displayed as tooltips (though in the case of ZKB they forgot to mention the 10K dit in the same hex!), but I'd like to preprint a black square "mine" on each one (probably using a graphical overlay), and not show "tokens" for them at all. c) All company start spaces except S5 are labeled on the map even though it means that "Sd" clobbers "S1", "KK" clobbers "K1", and "Ug" clobbers "U1". 1835 has this problem too. I'd like to have an option in Rails's game definition XML to turn off these labels for individual companies or hexes. d) The token (and share chart) color for coal companies should be white, and for CL should be black (they are reversed). The lettering for BK should be white (because of its dark background color) and for MS, SB, and TH should be black (because of their light background colors). 3. The square stock chart is what I expected (though I'd like to try fixing that as a cosmetic feature for this specific game later). However, the Game Status window ought to show the fixed par prices of Sd, KK, and Ug right away (and similarly in other games where some companies have fixed par prices, even when those shares aren't available right after the start round, as they will be in 1837). 4. The "info" hover-buttons on the Start Round window do reveal which private companies come with minor companies, but only if you know how to read the XML object names. I think it would be clearer if the buttons in the Item column actually said, for example, "SmB+S1" rather than just "SmB". This goes for all games where two certificates are sold or auctioned together. 5. The mechanism for reducing prices for the next purchase if everyone passes during a start round works correctly -- up to the point where the prices of some of the items available reach zero. The save-game file "1837_20150801_2003_Kermit.rails" demonstrates this problem. Everyone passed consecutively starting with John and ending with Kermit, multiple times through. What actually happened then (from the Game Report window) is: (**)Kermit passes. All players have passed. Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K Price of AB is now reduced to 85K Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K Kermit buys EKT for 0K EKT floats and receives 100K And it is still Kermit's turn -- with AB and ZKB available for their reduced prices! (but EOD is at its normal price of 100). What SHOULD have happened is this: (**)Kermit passes. All players have passed. Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K Price of AB is now reduced to 85K Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K Now it becomes John's turn. Pass is grayed out, forcing John to buy one of the three companies on offer (AB for 85, or EKT or ZKB for free). Once he does so, all prices return to normal, Pass is re-enabled, and it becomes Kent's turn. 6. When the "first start packet" is sold out, a second one (K1 through K3) pops up and becomes available. However, once all players have too little money to buy from that second start packet, the start round ends and -- the game hangs. The second save file, "1837_20150801_2021_John.rails", is at this point. What SHOULD happen next is an operating round. Only the first start packet is required to sell out before operating rounds can begin. |
From: Stefan F. <ste...@we...> - 2015-08-14 08:24:02
|
1837 is currently mainly developed by Martin, so I will leave it to him to comment first. However the info-buttons do not work in all 18xx currently, I will fix that on my own. > 4. The "info" hover-buttons on the Start Round window do reveal which > private companies come with minor companies, but only if you know how to > read the XML object names. I think it would be clearer if the buttons > in the Item column actually said, for example, "SmB+S1" rather than just > "SmB". This goes for all games where two certificates are sold or > auctioned together. > |
From: Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...> - 2015-08-17 08:44:47
|
Hi John, first of all thank you for your test and the great feedback. Secondly i have to apologize for answering that late. Please find my comments down below. Am 01.08.15 um 22:32 schrieb John David Galt: > Playtest report of 1837 under Rails 2.0.beta3 on 2015-08-01. jdg > > 1. After filling in the first three players' names, using the mouse to > select the blank for player 4 doesn't work. I can get there by hitting > Tab, but not by using the mouse. Seems to be an UI problem, perhaps Stefan knows something there. > > 2. The map looks correct except for some cosmetic problems. > > a) There is NO visual indication of Italy (marked off by a red line in > Lonny Orgler's version of the printed map), which becomes off limits > when a 4-train is purchased. I intend to place a "real map" in the background. This map should show the border. Currently i dont know or rathter the mechanismn to mark overlays on the current system is unknown to me :( > > I suggest showing it by making those hexes a little darker than the > usual starting pale-green color (say RGB 62,193,118). I would also make > Bosnia a lighter shade of yellow so as to avoid giving the impression > that green tiles are to be laid there (as in the Erie and B&O home hexes > in 1830). Since those map is generated from normal tiles, i would have to generate additional tiles with different colours just for the background map. Thats time consuming for a cosmetical fix. > b) Coal company start hexes show a "dit" (sometimes badly drawn) but do > not show either their company name or run value (until the company is > purchased; then a black "token" is placed). The run values are > adequately displayed as tooltips (though in the case of ZKB they forgot > to mention the 10K dit in the same hex!), but I'd like to preprint a > black square "mine" on each one (probably using a graphical overlay), > and not show "tokens" for them at all. Nice idea if i would know or someone else can tell me to put overlays there i would be willing to do this since this is necessary info imo. > c) All company start spaces except S5 are labeled on the map even though > it means that "Sd" clobbers "S1", "KK" clobbers "K1", and "Ug" clobbers > "U1". 1835 has this problem too. I'd like to have an option in Rails's > game definition XML to turn off these labels for individual companies or > hexes. Since S5 has two start hexes that are determined by the player this is a dynamic info that should be handled by overlays also. See problems above :) I agree with you about the clobbering of the map. Game definition might be a good way but this might lead to a major effort for all other games also. > d) The token (and share chart) color for coal companies should be white, > and for CL should be black (they are reversed). The lettering for BK > should be white (because of its dark background color) and for MS, SB, > and TH should be black (because of their light background colors). Will try to correct that. > 3. The square stock chart is what I expected (though I'd like to try > fixing that as a cosmetic feature for this specific game later). > However, the Game Status window ought to show the fixed par prices of > Sd, KK, and Ug right away (and similarly in other games where some > companies have fixed par prices, even when those shares aren't available > right after the start round, as they will be in 1837). Dont know if we have the mechansimn currently in place will investigate. > 4. The "info" hover-buttons on the Start Round window do reveal which > private companies come with minor companies, but only if you know how to > read the XML object names. I think it would be clearer if the buttons > in the Item column actually said, for example, "SmB+S1" rather than just > "SmB". This goes for all games where two certificates are sold or > auctioned together. > > 5. The mechanism for reducing prices for the next purchase if everyone > passes during a start round works correctly -- up to the point where the > prices of some of the items available reach zero. > > The save-game file "1837_20150801_2003_Kermit.rails" demonstrates this > problem. Everyone passed consecutively starting with John and ending > with Kermit, multiple times through. > > What actually happened then (from the Game Report window) is: > > (**)Kermit passes. > All players have passed. > Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K > Price of AB is now reduced to 85K > Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K > Kermit buys EKT for 0K > EKT floats and receives 100K > > And it is still Kermit's turn -- with AB and ZKB available for their > reduced prices! (but EOD is at its normal price of 100). > > What SHOULD have happened is this: > > (**)Kermit passes. > All players have passed. > Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K > Price of AB is now reduced to 85K > Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K > > Now it becomes John's turn. > Pass is grayed out, forcing John to buy one of the three companies > on offer (AB for 85, or EKT or ZKB for free). Once he does so, all > prices return to normal, Pass is re-enabled, and it becomes Kent's turn. Isnt he forced to buy the first one on display thats zero ? (i fixed the behaviour now that he will buy the first unsold company with a zero price.) > 6. When the "first start packet" is sold out, a second one (K1 through > K3) pops up and becomes available. However, once all players have too > little money to buy from that second start packet, the start round ends > and -- the game hangs. > > The second save file, "1837_20150801_2021_John.rails", is at this point. > > What SHOULD happen next is an operating round. Only the first start > packet is required to sell out before operating rounds can begin. > I am gonna check and correct that behaviour next. Thanks again, btw. if you want to jump in, the current 1837 development branch is labeled mbr_2_develop_1837. Feel free to either send me code or to build your own branch from where i can merge your code into mine and Stefan later on merges into the main development branch. regards Martin |
From: Stefan F. <ste...@we...> - 2015-08-17 09:14:49
|
A few remarks from my side. ;-) >> >> 1. After filling in the first three players' names, using the mouse to >> select the blank for player 4 doesn't work. I can get there by hitting >> Tab, but not by using the mouse. > > Seems to be an UI problem, perhaps Stefan knows something there. Yep, that's a bug, will be fixed. >> >> 2. The map looks correct except for some cosmetic problems. >> >> a) There is NO visual indication of Italy (marked off by a red line in >> Lonny Orgler's version of the printed map), which becomes off limits >> when a 4-train is purchased. > I intend to place a "real map" in the background. This map should show > the border. Currently i dont know or rathter the mechanismn to mark > overlays on the current system is unknown to me :( >> >> I suggest showing it by making those hexes a little darker than the >> usual starting pale-green color (say RGB 62,193,118). I would also make >> Bosnia a lighter shade of yellow so as to avoid giving the impression >> that green tiles are to be laid there (as in the Erie and B&O home hexes >> in 1830). > Since those map is generated from normal tiles, i would have to generate > additional tiles with different colours just for the background map. > Thats time consuming for a cosmetical fix. Yes a background map seems to be the better solution. > >> b) Coal company start hexes show a "dit" (sometimes badly drawn) but do >> not show either their company name or run value (until the company is >> purchased; then a black "token" is placed). The run values are >> adequately displayed as tooltips (though in the case of ZKB they forgot >> to mention the 10K dit in the same hex!), but I'd like to preprint a >> black square "mine" on each one (probably using a graphical overlay), >> and not show "tokens" for them at all. > Nice idea if i would know or someone else can tell me to put overlays > there i would be willing to do this since this is necessary info imo. Overlays are done in class HexMap (package net.sf.rails.ui.swing.hexmap) There are several static nested classes for the different layers (e.g. the TokensTextLayer). > >> c) All company start spaces except S5 are labeled on the map even though >> it means that "Sd" clobbers "S1", "KK" clobbers "K1", and "Ug" clobbers >> "U1". 1835 has this problem too. I'd like to have an option in Rails's >> game definition XML to turn off these labels for individual companies or >> hexes. > Since S5 has two start hexes that are determined by the player this is a > dynamic info that should be handled by overlays also. See problems above > :) I agree with you about the clobbering of the map. Game definition > might be a good way but this might lead to a major effort for all other > games also. I fixed that for the 1835 PR/M2/M5 case in Berlin recently. Use the unlaidHomeBlocksTokens="no" as attribute for the hex. If that is set, there is no indication of a reserved home token. |
From: John D. G. <jd...@di...> - 2015-08-17 23:29:25
|
>> 5. The mechanism for reducing prices for the next purchase if everyone >> passes during a start round works correctly -- up to the point where the >> prices of some of the items available reach zero. >> >> The save-game file "1837_20150801_2003_Kermit.rails" demonstrates this >> problem. Everyone passed consecutively starting with John and ending >> with Kermit, multiple times through. >> >> What actually happened then (from the Game Report window) is: >> >> (**)Kermit passes. >> All players have passed. >> Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K >> Price of AB is now reduced to 85K >> Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K >> Kermit buys EKT for 0K >> EKT floats and receives 100K >> >> And it is still Kermit's turn -- with AB and ZKB available for their >> reduced prices! (but EOD is at its normal price of 100). >> >> What SHOULD have happened is this: >> >> (**)Kermit passes. >> All players have passed. >> Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K >> Price of AB is now reduced to 85K >> Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K >> >> Now it becomes John's turn. >> Pass is grayed out, forcing John to buy one of the three companies >> on offer (AB for 85, or EKT or ZKB for free). Once he does so, all >> prices return to normal, Pass is re-enabled, and it becomes Kent's turn. > Isnt he forced to buy the first one on display thats zero ? (i fixed the > behaviour now that he will buy the first unsold company with a zero price.) No, I checked this in the rules. The next player has to buy something now, but can still select from any column if it is non-empty and he has the cash. |
From: Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...> - 2015-08-18 18:30:28
|
Presumably fixed in the new version :) Am 18.08.15 um 01:29 schrieb John David Galt: > No, I checked this in the rules. The next player has to buy something > now, but can still select from any column if it is non-empty and he > has the cash. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ Rails-devel mailing > list Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel |
From: Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...> - 2015-08-18 18:56:51
|
Am 01.08.15 um 22:32 schrieb John David Galt: > > d) The token (and share chart) color for coal companies should be white, > and for CL should be black (they are reversed). The lettering for BK > should be white (because of its dark background color) and for MS, SB, > and TH should be black (because of their light background colors). Has been fixed. > 3. The square stock chart is what I expected (though I'd like to try > fixing that as a cosmetic feature for this specific game later). > However, the Game Status window ought to show the fixed par prices of > Sd, KK, and Ug right away (and similarly in other games where some > companies have fixed par prices, even when those shares aren't available > right after the start round, as they will be in 1837). has been fixed par prices werent in the config so far. > > 4. The "info" hover-buttons on the Start Round window do reveal which > private companies come with minor companies, but only if you know how to > read the XML object names. I think it would be clearer if the buttons > in the Item column actually said, for example, "SmB+S1" rather than just > "SmB". This goes for all games where two certificates are sold or > auctioned together. Not yet fixed > > 5. The mechanism for reducing prices for the next purchase if everyone > passes during a start round works correctly -- up to the point where the > prices of some of the items available reach zero. > > The save-game file "1837_20150801_2003_Kermit.rails" demonstrates this > problem. Everyone passed consecutively starting with John and ending > with Kermit, multiple times through. > > What actually happened then (from the Game Report window) is: > > (**)Kermit passes. > All players have passed. > Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K > Price of AB is now reduced to 85K > Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K > Kermit buys EKT for 0K > EKT floats and receives 100K > > And it is still Kermit's turn -- with AB and ZKB available for their > reduced prices! (but EOD is at its normal price of 100). > > What SHOULD have happened is this: > > (**)Kermit passes. > All players have passed. > Price of EKT is now reduced to 0K > Price of AB is now reduced to 85K > Price of ZKB is now reduced to 0K > > Now it becomes John's turn. > Pass is grayed out, forcing John to buy one of the three companies > on offer (AB for 85, or EKT or ZKB for free). Once he does so, all > prices return to normal, Pass is re-enabled, and it becomes Kent's turn. Is definately fixed. > > 6. When the "first start packet" is sold out, a second one (K1 through > K3) pops up and becomes available. However, once all players have too > little money to buy from that second start packet, the start round ends > and -- the game hangs. > > The second save file, "1837_20150801_2021_John.rails", is at this point. > > What SHOULD happen next is an operating round. Only the first start > packet is required to sell out before operating rounds can begin. Should have been fixed. Checking now if theres the Startpacket "Coal" not sold only to block an OR. Regards, Martin |