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From: Stefan F. <ste...@we...> - 2015-03-10 08:59:22
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UI_buttons_comments.png
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Hi, to get more feedback on the UI, I will try to make some more suggestions how to improve the Rails 2.0 UI. Those who tried the 2.0 beta already know that the buttons Confirm/Skip have been move to the top of the upgrade panel and are always visible (green circle in the attached image). First reason for that was to avoid scrolling down the upgrade panel to finalize the tile lay. I realized that now one has to use the buttons at the top of the upgrade panel for tile/token laying, but the buttons at the bottom of the OR window for later actions (payout, buy trains etc). My suggestion is to make UI easier is: A) Remove the button panel at the bottom of the OR window. B) Move the undo/redo buttons to the bottom of the upgrade panel (always visible) C) Move the action buttons (payout/withhold/buy train) to the top of the upgrade panel. This implies that the action buttons will change depending on the activity. Open question is where to move "Buy Private". One possibility is to move the buy Private button to a entry of the special menu? Or a separate entry of the menu? Other ideas? Feedback and other/further ideas are welcome. Stefan |
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From: <com...@ip...> - 2015-03-10 10:31:39
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"buy privates" sounds like an action to me - why not group it with them, but have it only visible when relevant? Mike >-- Original Message -- >Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:58:58 +0100 >From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> >To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game > <rai...@li...>, rai...@li... >Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 2.0 discussion: Changes to OR Window? >Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game" > <rai...@li...> > > >Hi, >to get more feedback on the UI, I will try to make some more suggestions > >how to improve the Rails 2.0 UI. > >Those who tried the 2.0 beta already know that the buttons Confirm/Skip >have been move to the top of the upgrade panel and are always visible >(green circle in the attached image). > >First reason for that was to avoid scrolling down the upgrade panel to >finalize the tile lay. > >I realized that now one has to use the buttons at the top of the upgrade > >panel for tile/token laying, but the buttons at the bottom of the OR >window for later actions (payout, buy trains etc). > >My suggestion is to make UI easier is: > >A) Remove the button panel at the bottom of the OR window. > >B) Move the undo/redo buttons to the bottom of the upgrade panel (always > >visible) > >C) Move the action buttons (payout/withhold/buy train) to the top of the > >upgrade panel. This implies that the action buttons will change >depending on the activity. > >Open question is where to move "Buy Private". One possibility is to move > >the buy Private button to a entry of the special menu? Or a separate >entry of the menu? Other ideas? > >Feedback and other/further ideas are welcome. > >Stefan > >Attachment: UI_buttons_comments.png > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored >by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for >all >things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs >to >news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the > >conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ >_______________________________________________ >Rails-devel mailing list >Rai...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel |
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2015-03-10 15:20:36
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There are a number of special actions that can be executed at various times, including taking special abilities granted by privates, like laying a cattle token. I agree with Mike - make all of these, including buy privates, individual buttons, only visible when available to the player to take as an action. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:31 AM <com...@ip...> wrote: > "buy privates" sounds like an action to me - why not group it with them, > but have it only visible when relevant? > > Mike > > > >-- Original Message -- > >Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:58:58 +0100 > >From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> > >To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game > > <rai...@li...>, > rai...@li... > >Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 2.0 discussion: Changes to OR Window? > >Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game" > > <rai...@li...> > > > > > >Hi, > >to get more feedback on the UI, I will try to make some more suggestions > > > >how to improve the Rails 2.0 UI. > > > >Those who tried the 2.0 beta already know that the buttons Confirm/Skip > > >have been move to the top of the upgrade panel and are always visible > >(green circle in the attached image). > > > >First reason for that was to avoid scrolling down the upgrade panel to > >finalize the tile lay. > > > >I realized that now one has to use the buttons at the top of the upgrade > > > >panel for tile/token laying, but the buttons at the bottom of the OR > >window for later actions (payout, buy trains etc). > > > >My suggestion is to make UI easier is: > > > >A) Remove the button panel at the bottom of the OR window. > > > >B) Move the undo/redo buttons to the bottom of the upgrade panel (always > > > >visible) > > > >C) Move the action buttons (payout/withhold/buy train) to the top of the > > > >upgrade panel. This implies that the action buttons will change > >depending on the activity. > > > >Open question is where to move "Buy Private". One possibility is to move > > > >the buy Private button to a entry of the special menu? Or a separate > >entry of the menu? Other ideas? > > > >Feedback and other/further ideas are welcome. > > > >Stefan > > > >Attachment: UI_buttons_comments.png > > > >----------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > >Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, > sponsored > >by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for > >all > >things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs > >to > >news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the > > > >conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ > >_______________________________________________ > >Rails-devel mailing list > >Rai...@li... > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, > sponsored > by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for > all > things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs > to > news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the > conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > |
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2015-03-10 15:21:02
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Alternatively, have a "special actions" button that displays when special actions are possible, and have it open a menu of choices. On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:20 AM Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote: > There are a number of special actions that can be executed at various > times, including taking special abilities granted by privates, like laying > a cattle token. I agree with Mike - make all of these, including buy > privates, individual buttons, only visible when available to the player to > take as an action. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 3:31 AM <com...@ip...> wrote: > >> "buy privates" sounds like an action to me - why not group it with them, >> but have it only visible when relevant? >> >> Mike >> >> >> >-- Original Message -- >> >Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 09:58:58 +0100 >> >From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> >> >To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game >> > <rai...@li...>, >> rai...@li... >> >Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 2.0 discussion: Changes to OR Window? >> >Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game" >> > <rai...@li...> >> > >> > >> >Hi, >> >to get more feedback on the UI, I will try to make some more suggestions >> > >> >how to improve the Rails 2.0 UI. >> > >> >Those who tried the 2.0 beta already know that the buttons Confirm/Skip >> >> >have been move to the top of the upgrade panel and are always visible >> >(green circle in the attached image). >> > >> >First reason for that was to avoid scrolling down the upgrade panel to >> >finalize the tile lay. >> > >> >I realized that now one has to use the buttons at the top of the upgrade >> > >> >panel for tile/token laying, but the buttons at the bottom of the OR >> >window for later actions (payout, buy trains etc). >> > >> >My suggestion is to make UI easier is: >> > >> >A) Remove the button panel at the bottom of the OR window. >> > >> >B) Move the undo/redo buttons to the bottom of the upgrade panel (always >> > >> >visible) >> > >> >C) Move the action buttons (payout/withhold/buy train) to the top of the >> > >> >upgrade panel. This implies that the action buttons will change >> >depending on the activity. >> > >> >Open question is where to move "Buy Private". One possibility is to move >> > >> >the buy Private button to a entry of the special menu? Or a separate >> >entry of the menu? Other ideas? >> > >> >Feedback and other/further ideas are welcome. >> > >> >Stefan >> > >> >Attachment: UI_buttons_comments.png >> > >> >----------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------- >> >Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, >> sponsored >> >by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub >> for >> >all >> >things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership >> blogs >> >to >> >news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the >> > >> >conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Rails-devel mailing list >> >Rai...@li... >> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, >> sponsored >> by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub >> for all >> things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership >> blogs to >> news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the >> conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Rails-devel mailing list >> Rai...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel >> > |
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From: John D. G. <jd...@di...> - 2015-03-10 22:05:20
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On 2015-03-10 01:58, Stefan Frey wrote: > to get more feedback on the UI, I will try to make some more suggestions > how to improve the Rails 2.0 UI. I'll toss in my $.02 as well, whether you end up making any of the changes or not. I'll respond to your ideas first. > Those who tried the 2.0 beta already know that the buttons Confirm/Skip > have been move to the top of the upgrade panel and are always visible > (green circle in the attached image). > > First reason for that was to avoid scrolling down the upgrade panel to > finalize the tile lay. That in itself is not a bad change. However, I would want to make it a little "smarter" (in particular, if there's no legal tile lay or no legal token lay -- after considering both the supply of tiles (or tokens) and the company's treasury -- then skip that phase. In particular, 1835 should not be offering me the Pfalz tile lay unless (it's green phase AND that hex is unbuilt), and should not be offering me the Pfalz token lay unless (BA has placed its home token AND the hex still has an open city circle AND the operating company is not BA). While we're at it: 1) Make the top title bar of the map window SAY what it wants you to do during each step. (During both the tile-lay and token-lay steps in Rails 2.0-beta1, the title bar says only "Select a hex", which is completely unhelpful.) > I realized that now one has to use the buttons at the top of the upgrade > panel for tile/token laying, but the buttons at the bottom of the OR > window for later actions (payout, buy trains etc). > > My suggestion is to make UI easier is: > > A) Remove the button panel at the bottom of the OR window. OK, but then let's move all those buttons into that left side "upgrade" panel. It has the room, and it means we don't have to look more than one place during operating rounds. Also while we're at it, 2) Move the menu bar (where it shows "Info", "Special", and "Zoom" in your example image) from the bottom of the map to the very top, above the title bar. And, dare I suggest: 3) Add "Privates", "Tiles", and "Tokens" columns to the Game Status window (and have the companies in that window move to reflect operating order each OR), thus eliminating any need to have a separate list of companies attached to the map window. This will make a HUGE difference on small screens, where I've been used to playing 18EU through a tiny "letter box" view of the map because the company-list part of the map pane won't allow itself to be shrunk!!! > B) Move the undo/redo buttons to the bottom of the upgrade panel (always > visible) Agree. And keep each one in a fixed location. No more of the present situation where they move around horizontally during an OR. > C) Move the action buttons (payout/withhold/buy train) to the top of the > upgrade panel. This implies that the action buttons will change > depending on the activity. Agree, so long as this does not include Undo/Redo. > Open question is where to move "Buy Private". One possibility is to move > the buy Private button to a entry of the special menu? Or a separate > entry of the menu? Other ideas? "Buy Private" is one of several steps that happen so seldom that asking the player about them every turn can be an annoyance. I suggest we borrow an idea from another Sourceforge game project, Colossus, and create a large Options menu, changeable during a game, which allows the user to tell Rails to skip asking about certain actions. (Other actions my group would often want to skip being asked to do include: Pay back loans in 1856; buy or sell treasury stock in 1826 or 18EU; or take private-company actions in all games.) In all cases, the action so skipped should be available to players on the "Special" menu, so they're never deprived of the opportunity to do it if they remember. If they want to be asked they can turn that on. |
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From: Stefan F. <ste...@we...> - 2015-03-11 18:31:04
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John, Mike and Chris: thanks for your suggestions. I will break all of your suggestions into tiny tidbits in my response to keep the discussion focused on each proposal. On 03/10/2015 10:39 PM, John David Galt wrote: > And, dare I suggest: > > 3) Add "Privates", "Tiles", and "Tokens" columns to the Game Status > window (and have the companies in that window move to reflect operating > order each OR), thus eliminating any need to have a separate list of > companies attached to the map window. This will make a HUGE difference > on small screens, where I've been used to playing 18EU through a tiny > "letter box" view of the map because the company-list part of the map > pane won't allow itself to be shrunk!!! In my view the huge panel of companies during the OR was distracting as well. Unfortunately it is difficult to move fields given the current code structure (this will improve in 2.1...). However what is possible in 2.1 is to change the visibility of companies during the OR. What about this: During tile/token/revenue steps: Show only one row with the current operating company. During train buying step: Show all companies, as the map has no value now and it is important to see where the trains currently are and what is the operating order of companies. I already have a fix in the repo (branch rails_2_develop) that implements this change. Stefan |
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2015-03-11 20:44:45
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It would be nice if there was a toggle during this phase. Sometimes the map is really important when buying trains. On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 11:31 AM Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote: > John, Mike and Chris: > thanks for your suggestions. > > I will break all of your suggestions into tiny tidbits in my response to > keep the discussion focused on each proposal. > > On 03/10/2015 10:39 PM, John David Galt wrote: > > And, dare I suggest: > > > > 3) Add "Privates", "Tiles", and "Tokens" columns to the Game Status > > window (and have the companies in that window move to reflect operating > > order each OR), thus eliminating any need to have a separate list of > > companies attached to the map window. This will make a HUGE difference > > on small screens, where I've been used to playing 18EU through a tiny > > "letter box" view of the map because the company-list part of the map > > pane won't allow itself to be shrunk!!! > > > In my view the huge panel of companies during the OR was distracting as > well. Unfortunately it is difficult to move fields given the current > code structure (this will improve in 2.1...). > > However what is possible in 2.1 is to change the visibility of companies > during the OR. > > What about this: > > During tile/token/revenue steps: Show only one row with the current > operating company. > > During train buying step: Show all companies, as the map has no value > now and it is important to see where the trains currently are and what > is the operating order of companies. > > I already have a fix in the repo (branch rails_2_develop) that > implements this change. > > Stefan > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, > sponsored > by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for > all > things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs > to > news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the > conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > |
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From: <com...@ip...> - 2015-03-12 00:12:15
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Rails is a competitive game as much as a cooperative one. Being able to see stock values, revenues etc for rivals informs players as to the probable strategies in place during the next stock round and how the corp currently being operated should behave in the current round ie pay dividends, withhold, etc. So I don't think this is a good idea. Mike >-- Original Message -- >Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 19:30:48 +0100 >From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> >To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game > <rai...@li...> >Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 2.0 discussion: Changes to OR Window? >Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game" > <rai...@li...> > > >John, Mike and Chris: >thanks for your suggestions. > >I will break all of your suggestions into tiny tidbits in my response to > >keep the discussion focused on each proposal. > >On 03/10/2015 10:39 PM, John David Galt wrote: > > And, dare I suggest: > > > > 3) Add "Privates", "Tiles", and "Tokens" columns to the Game Status > > window (and have the companies in that window move to reflect operating > > order each OR), thus eliminating any need to have a separate list of > > companies attached to the map window. This will make a HUGE difference > > on small screens, where I've been used to playing 18EU through a tiny > > "letter box" view of the map because the company-list part of the map > > pane won't allow itself to be shrunk!!! > > >In my view the huge panel of companies during the OR was distracting as >well. Unfortunately it is difficult to move fields given the current >code structure (this will improve in 2.1...). > >However what is possible in 2.1 is to change the visibility of companies > >during the OR. > >What about this: > >During tile/token/revenue steps: Show only one row with the current >operating company. > >During train buying step: Show all companies, as the map has no value >now and it is important to see where the trains currently are and what >is the operating order of companies. > >I already have a fix in the repo (branch rails_2_develop) that >implements this change. > >Stefan > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored >by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for >all >things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs >to >news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the > >conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ >_______________________________________________ >Rails-devel mailing list >Rai...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel |
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From: John D. G. <jd...@di...> - 2015-03-12 00:18:59
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On 2015-03-11 17:12, com...@ip... wrote: > Rails is a competitive game as much as a cooperative one. Being able to see > stock values, revenues etc for rivals informs players as to the probable > strategies in place during the next stock round and how the corp currently > being operated should behave in the current round ie pay dividends, withhold, > etc. So I don't think this is a good idea. You're always able to see those things in the Game Status window. |
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