rails-devel

[Rails-devel] Test run and comments - Rails 2.0 alpha 8

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

I tried a 3-player game of 1835, and got as far as the first turn of Sx.

- Startup seems normal, but there is a new game option, "Ignore reserved
PR shares", with no explanation.  I didn't try it.

- I undid a couple of turns during the Start Round, and discovered that
Undoing actions by clicking on an action in the Game Report window and
then hitting "Play from here" doesn't work any more.  (The cursor goes
forward to the latest completed turn, and the Game Status window confirms
that nothing was undone.)  Moderator -> Forced Undo, though, still works.

- As in earlier alpha versions, the Game Status window does not show who
owns private companies.

- I mostly like the new, smaller buttons displayed when it is time to lay
tiles or tokens.  However, the top legend "Select a hex" doesn't make it
clear what I'm supposed to do.  "Select a hex to lay a tile in" or "Select
a hex to place a token in" would be clearer.

- The logic determining what tile or token lays are legal needs tweaking.
Koln is highlighted on M1's second turn even though M1 does not have the
50M to lay a tile there.  And after BY has placed the NF token, the NF hex
is still highlighted each turn as if BY were allowed to place a second
token there.  In addition, SX is offered the opportunity to lay a token in
Ludwigshafen/Mannheim even though it is not yet green phase (and no token
can legally be placed there until after the BA home station has appeared).

- At the point of this save file, SX has already declined to lay a token
but is being offered the opportunity again -- and the program won't take
no for an answer.  Hitting "Skip" causes a pop-up with the message,
"Action Biff executed NullAction, mode = SKIP, optionalLabel = NULL is not
allowed".  The program is effectively hung, so I am done.

I've included the "18xx.log" debug log as well as the saved game file.

Re: [Rails-devel] Test run and comments - Rails 2.0 alpha 8

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Hi John,
thanks for your feedback. My comments see below. 1835 is still the game 
that still needs some work. (As most likely 1880).

Stefan


On 11/21/2014 04:14 AM, John David Galt wrote:
> I tried a 3-player game of 1835, and got as far as the first turn of Sx.
>
> - Startup seems normal, but there is a new game option, "Ignore reserved
> PR shares", with no explanation.  I didn't try it.

This option was introduced in rails 1.8.5 by Martin Brumm and included 
in 2.0.

Quote from Martins release notes:

"1835: Introducing a switch name PrussianReservedIgnored. This 	
	    switch if toggled to yes on game start will tell rails to
	    ignore unavailable prussian shares (shares that have not
	    yet been converted in the Prussianformation process) in
	    determining if the prussian shares are sold out or not.
	    The old and current default method will treat unconverted
	    shares as unsold !"

So this is a similar question to Q5.3 of Bill Stolls FAQ list, however 
not identical. I am not convinced that the current default of Rails 
makes sense (except being compatible with the previous implementation). 
However this can be changed, even without making previous savefiles 
invalid. My opinion is that as long as there are no available shares in 
IPO/Pool at the end of the share round, the company share price is 
eligible for a rise. Unless the specific game rules define otherwise.

What are the opinions?


>
> - I undid a couple of turns during the Start Round, and discovered that
> Undoing actions by clicking on an action in the Game Report window and
> then hitting "Play from here" doesn't work any more.  (The cursor goes
> forward to the latest completed turn, and the Game Status window confirms
> that nothing was undone.)  Moderator -> Forced Undo, though, still works.
>

I will have to check that. It used to work in my test, so it might rely 
to the specific game file or I broke it recently.

> - As in earlier alpha versions, the Game Status window does not show who
> owns private companies.

Still not fixed :-(

>
> - I mostly like the new, smaller buttons displayed when it is time to lay
> tiles or tokens.  However, the top legend "Select a hex" doesn't make it
> clear what I'm supposed to do.  "Select a hex to lay a tile in" or "Select
> a hex to place a token in" would be clearer.

I am currently waiting to finalize the UI behavior with your feedback 
until I change the help text. Compared to previous releases it is now 
possible to offer tile and token lays simultaneously, thus there needs 
to be more code logic.

>
> - The logic determining what tile or token lays are legal needs tweaking.
> Koln is highlighted on M1's second turn even though M1 does not have the
> 50M to lay a tile there.  And after BY has placed the NF token, the NF hex
> is still highlighted each turn as if BY were allowed to place a second
> token there.  In addition, SX is offered the opportunity to lay a token in
> Ludwigshafen/Mannheim even though it is not yet green phase (and no token
> can legally be placed there until after the BA home station has appeared).

Unfortunately those conditions are checked currently (as in Rails 1.x) 
only ex-post not ex-ante. So the actions will only be rejected after 
they are selected, but are still offered. Changing that will require 
more work I am intending to do for 2.0, so I will postpone that change 
for a later release.

>
> - At the point of this save file, SX has already declined to lay a token
> but is being offered the opportunity again -- and the program won't take
> no for an answer.  Hitting "Skip" causes a pop-up with the message,
> "Action Biff executed NullAction, mode = SKIP, optionalLabel = NULL is not
> allowed".  The program is effectively hung, so I am done.

This is correct, the Pfalzbahn token lay is offered anytime. However as 
above it should be rejected ex-post. But it is definitely wrong to offer 
a SKIP in those phases, where no SKIP is possible. I will restrict the 
Pfalzbahn token offering to Tile and Token Lay phases.

>
> I've included the "18xx.log" debug log as well as the saved game file.

Thanks!

Re: [Rails-devel] Test run and comments - Rails 2.0 alpha 8

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2014-11-23 08:53, Stefan Frey wrote:
> Quote from Martins release notes:
> 
> "1835: Introducing a switch name PrussianReservedIgnored. This 	
> 	    switch if toggled to yes on game start will tell rails to
> 	    ignore unavailable prussian shares (shares that have not
> 	    yet been converted in the Prussianformation process) in
> 	    determining if the prussian shares are sold out or not.
> 	    The old and current default method will treat unconverted
> 	    shares as unsold !"
> 
> So this is a similar question to Q5.3 of Bill Stolls FAQ list, however 
> not identical. I am not convinced that the current default of Rails 
> makes sense (except being compatible with the previous implementation). 
> However this can be changed, even without making previous savefiles 
> invalid. My opinion is that as long as there are no available shares in 
> IPO/Pool at the end of the share round, the company share price is 
> eligible for a rise. Unless the specific game rules define otherwise.
> 
> What are the opinions?

I'm glad this option is available if there are some groups that play that
way.  However, I continue to believe that the rule as originally coded is
the correct one.

Re: [Rails-devel] Test run and comments - Rails 2.0 alpha 8

[<com...@ip...>]

Our group has always taken the position that if players have had the opportunity
to convert shares but have not done so, then the company is not sold out
and is not eligible for a stock market increase. Therefore the existing interpretation
is correct in our eyes.

Mike Bourke



>"1835: Introducing a switch name PrussianReservedIgnored. This 	
>	    switch if toggled to yes on game start will tell rails to
>	    ignore unavailable prussian shares (shares that have not
>	    yet been converted in the Prussianformation process) in
>	    determining if the prussian shares are sold out or not.
>	    The old and current default method will treat unconverted
>	    shares as unsold !"
>
>So this is a similar question to Q5.3 of Bill Stolls FAQ list, however 
>not identical. I am not convinced that the current default of Rails 
>makes sense (except being compatible with the previous implementation).

>However this can be changed, even without making previous savefiles 
>invalid. My opinion is that as long as there are no available shares in

>IPO/Pool at the end of the share round, the company share price is 
>eligible for a rise. Unless the specific game rules define otherwise.
>
>What are the opinions?