rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Issue with Private Bid Auction order

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-09-24 05:24, Bob Probst wrote:
> 3 player 1830, rails file attached.
> 
> We had 3 players bidding on C&A and Rails directed the next bid to the middle player, not the player with the lowest bid.
> 
> Player 1 is Joshua. 
> Player 2 is Adam. 
> Player 3 is Bob. 
> 
> Adam just passed on the M&H, Joshua bought it at $150 and Rails directed me to bid next on the C&A.
> 
> SVNRR: $20 Joshua purchases for $20
> C&StL: $40 Adam 55, Bob pass
> D&H: $70 Joshua pass, Bob 100
> M&H: $110 *Adam pass*, Joshua 150
> C&A: $160 Joshua 165, Bob 170, Adam 175
> B&O: $220
> 
> *Bob* (with C&A)
> 
> As I understand, the original rules were somewhat ambiguous on how this should be done
> 
> The new Mayfair reprint states that the next in line is the lowest bidder (pg 26) and my experience with a wide variety of players is to have it go to the lowest bidder as well.
> 
> I'd recommend that RAILS adhere to the current ruleset.

The exact order of events is not clear from your message.  However, my
experience (based mostly on the original 1830 rules) says this:

   1) Within the auction for one item, bid turns go in regular seating order
(skipping those players who didn't make themselves eligible by bidding on that
item before somebody triggered the auction by buying the preceding item).
The person who bid highest (and thus last) on that item before it went up for
auction is regarded as having bid last, so the player after him gets the first
turn in the auction.

   2) Turns in the initial stock round also go in regular seating order (but
are a separate sequence from any auctions that may interrupt the stock round).
For most games, including 1830 as usually played, auctions do not change this
sequence (that is, after an auction or series of auctions, the stock round
continues with the player after the player who made the purchase that
triggered the auction(s), regardless of who buys the auctioned item).

   But in games (including, for some people, 1830) in which an auction does
change whose turn it is in the stock round, the next turn always goes to the
player after the player who bought the auctioned item.

I have never heard of a rule where the lowest bidder gets the next turn;
neither have most 18xx players; and 1830 should certainly not be changed to
work that way unless it is made optional.

Re: [Rails-devel] Issue with Private Bid Auction order

[Dave M. <da...@mi...>]

I think Bob is trying to relate the situation he found in the game 
they are playing on BBG.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/817997/1830-pbem-game-watch-it-progress-and-post-your-a/page/3


First off; I believe and play with people that have never disagreed 
with me... that
the main order of the Initial Stock Round in 1830 stays in seating 
order and does not skip around.

Auctions are triggered by a purchase that causes the contested 
private to be next in private order. Once triggered they happen 
outside the SR turn order.

So if there are bids on all privates except the SVRR, and then the 
SVRR is purchased,
the auctions happen, and then the next player in order gets their SR turn.

In the BBG game; it was the order of the auction that surprised people.
Evidently RAILS conducted the auction in table order as well.  This 
was surprising because it did not start with the low bidder, but the 
next around the table from the previous auction.
In some ways it really doesn't matter,  The current "ante" (to borrow 
some poker terminology) to stay in the auction was set by the highest 
bidder or last bidder.  However you must admit that it is traditional 
that an auction starts with the person that bid first (and is 
therefore the lowest stale bid).

It should be simple for RAILS to start auctions from that basis, not 
the current table order, or some unrelated state.

Dave.

On 9/25/2012 10:40 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>On 2012-09-24 05:24, Bob Probst wrote:
> > 3 player 1830, rails file attached.
> >
> > We had 3 players bidding on C&A and Rails directed the next bid 
> to the middle player, not the player with the lowest bid.
> >
> > Player 1 is Joshua.
> > Player 2 is Adam.
> > Player 3 is Bob.
> >
> > Adam just passed on the M&H, Joshua bought it at $150 and Rails 
> directed me to bid next on the C&A.
> >
> > SVNRR: $20 Joshua purchases for $20
> > C&StL: $40 Adam 55, Bob pass
> > D&H: $70 Joshua pass, Bob 100
> > M&H: $110 *Adam pass*, Joshua 150
> > C&A: $160 Joshua 165, Bob 170, Adam 175
> > B&O: $220
> >
> > *Bob* (with C&A)
> >
> > As I understand, the original rules were somewhat ambiguous on 
> how this should be done
> >
> > The new Mayfair reprint states that the next in line is the 
> lowest bidder (pg 26) and my experience with a wide variety of 
> players is to have it go to the lowest bidder as well.
> >
> > I'd recommend that RAILS adhere to the current ruleset.
>
>The exact order of events is not clear from your message.  However, my
>experience (based mostly on the original 1830 rules) says this:
>
>    1) Within the auction for one item, bid turns go in regular seating order
>(skipping those players who didn't make themselves eligible by bidding on that
>item before somebody triggered the auction by buying the preceding item).
>The person who bid highest (and thus last) on that item before it went up for
>auction is regarded as having bid last, so the player after him gets the first
>turn in the auction.
>
>    2) Turns in the initial stock round also go in regular seating order (but
>are a separate sequence from any auctions that may interrupt the stock round).
>For most games, including 1830 as usually played, auctions do not change this
>sequence (that is, after an auction or series of auctions, the stock round
>continues with the player after the player who made the purchase that
>triggered the auction(s), regardless of who buys the auctioned item).
>
>    But in games (including, for some people, 1830) in which an auction does
>change whose turn it is in the stock round, the next turn always goes to the
>player after the player who bought the auctioned item.
>
>I have never heard of a rule where the lowest bidder gets the next turn;
>neither have most 18xx players; and 1830 should certainly not be changed to
>work that way unless it is made optional.
>
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