rails-devel

[Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

See attached saved game file

We were through to OR 6.2 when I saved this (rails 1.1.3) and on
reload it only plays through to SR5 before receiving an error.  I
assume this is as a result of too much faffing with the undo button
during play and the order stack not being saved correctly.

I stupidly didn't save the game report separately for this game so I
think we'll have to pick up again from here...a 'manual edit' mode for
rails would be great to fix this situations, just allowing you to
tweak things to the state they should be in (since I have screenshots
of the current gamestate etc.) would be helpful when running into bugs
likely this (I am fully aware this is by no means a small request ;))

Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

I have no solution to offer for the bug reported below.

But some general remarks:
as "sibling" to the noMapMode Erik recommended to add
some correction possibilities. I am currently working on that:

For a first step it will be possible to adjust cash positions of player and 
companies (a new menu will be available after activation of the correction 
mode, which will be highlighted in the game report) and this change hopefully 
will make into the next release.

Somewhat more involved are other adjustments to the game state like:
A. Adjusting portfolios of players (certificates and private companies)
B. Adjusting the board (add and remove tiles)
C. Adjusting the company portfolios (tokens, trains, private companies)

I think the objectives of such changes are:
- Accessible only during a special mode
(maybe highlighting by background color?)
- Shows in the audit trail (=> game report)
- Integrated with the undo/redo framework

A potential downside could be that players do not bother 
anymore to file a bug report.

Stefan


On Wednesday 17 February 2010 11:19:12 Phil Davies wrote:
> See attached saved game file
>
> We were through to OR 6.2 when I saved this (rails 1.1.3) and on
> reload it only plays through to SR5 before receiving an error.  I
> assume this is as a result of too much faffing with the undo button
> during play and the order stack not being saved correctly.
>
> I stupidly didn't save the game report separately for this game so I
> think we'll have to pick up again from here...a 'manual edit' mode for
> rails would be great to fix this situations, just allowing you to
> tweak things to the state they should be in (since I have screenshots
> of the current gamestate etc.) would be helpful when running into bugs
> likely this (I am fully aware this is by no means a small request ;))
>
> Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> I think the objectives of such changes are:
> - Accessible only during a special mode
> (maybe highlighting by background color?)

A special mode isn't completely necessary, in my opinion.  A separate
menu entry that is clearly marked as "administrative" options, is
definitely required.

> - Shows in the audit trail (=> game report)

Agreed.  The other players should be made aware that the game has been
tampered with in a way that ignores the rules enforcement.

I don't want it to be too invasive, but maybe a single pop up on the
player's turn that follows the use of these features?

> - Integrated with the undo/redo framework
>
> A potential downside could be that players do not bother
> anymore to file a bug report.

Completely agreed.

There's a few different ways to approach this.  I definitely don't
want us to harass users for a bug report.

Perhaps what we could also do is build in a Report Bug function as a
menu option?  Have it save out the current game state, pop up a window
for the user to include additional details, and e-mail the message and
saved game to the rails-devel list?

>
> Stefan

---Brett.

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Freek D. <sf_...@ma...>]

brett lentz wrote:

> A special [edit] mode isn't completely necessary, in my opinion. 
> A separate menu entry that is clearly marked as "administrative"
> options, is definitely required.

Such menu even exists, in the Game Status window: Operator (with forced
undo and redo for use in the stock round).

Regards,
Freek

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

> A special [edit] mode isn't completely necessary, in my opinion. 
> A separate menu entry that is clearly marked as "administrative"
> options, is definitely required.

Such menu even exists, in the Game Status window: Operator (with forced
undo and redo for use in the stock round).

[EV] Moderator, actually.

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Looking at the log, what seems to have happened at the end of OR 4.1 is the
following:

Dixie (pres. Simon) has just completed its first OR. So it wasn't allowed to
do any share trading yet.
However, the saved file contains 2 consecutive Done actions at the end of
that turn.
The first Done came after Dixie buying a train, and the second one (still by
Simon) can only be explained if Dixie has incorrectly got the opportunity to
trade shares. Can you remember if such a thing has happened?

I cannot exclude your suggestion that using Undo/Redo might have disturbed
things. Most likely Undo/Redo isn't perfect yet, although I'm not aware of
any particular failure points. I just remember vaguely occasionally having
seen misfits, sadly ignoring to investigate these...

Anyway, after reloading this saved file you are left at the start of SR5.
Can you reconstruct the game from there?
I have attached a dump of the saved file, listing all its actions (#128 is
the bad one). Perhaps that helps.

Erik.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...] 
Sent: Wednesday 17 February 2010 11:19
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

See attached saved game file

We were through to OR 6.2 when I saved this (rails 1.1.3) and on
reload it only plays through to SR5 before receiving an error.  I
assume this is as a result of too much faffing with the undo button
during play and the order stack not being saved correctly.

I stupidly didn't save the game report separately for this game so I
think we'll have to pick up again from here...a 'manual edit' mode for
rails would be great to fix this situations, just allowing you to
tweak things to the state they should be in (since I have screenshots
of the current gamestate etc.) would be helpful when running into bugs
likely this (I am fully aware this is by no means a small request ;))

Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

I don't especially remember if it was given that option or not...

It 'might' be that going past that point, then undoing to the treasury
trading stage might have made that step occur?  Since it won't be
checked and skipped when going in reverse??  I'm totally guessing
here...I'll try and recreate the scenario again and see what happens!

I managed to load up the saved file in the Eclipse debugger and got
the order stack displayed then worked through it manually from SR5.
How did you export the order stack to a text file?  This looks like it
would be useful for fixing these things in future, it took me longer
than necessary to work through it with the debugger but this is mainly
due to my unfamiliarity with Eclipse :p

Phil

On 17 February 2010 20:35, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> Looking at the log, what seems to have happened at the end of OR 4.1 is the
> following:
>
> Dixie (pres. Simon) has just completed its first OR. So it wasn't allowed to
> do any share trading yet.
> However, the saved file contains 2 consecutive Done actions at the end of
> that turn.
> The first Done came after Dixie buying a train, and the second one (still by
> Simon) can only be explained if Dixie has incorrectly got the opportunity to
> trade shares. Can you remember if such a thing has happened?
>
> I cannot exclude your suggestion that using Undo/Redo might have disturbed
> things. Most likely Undo/Redo isn't perfect yet, although I'm not aware of
> any particular failure points. I just remember vaguely occasionally having
> seen misfits, sadly ignoring to investigate these...
>
> Anyway, after reloading this saved file you are left at the start of SR5.
> Can you reconstruct the game from there?
> I have attached a dump of the saved file, listing all its actions (#128 is
> the bad one). Perhaps that helps.
>
> Erik.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...]
> Sent: Wednesday 17 February 2010 11:19
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Saved game error
>
> See attached saved game file
>
> We were through to OR 6.2 when I saved this (rails 1.1.3) and on
> reload it only plays through to SR5 before receiving an error.  I
> assume this is as a result of too much faffing with the undo button
> during play and the order stack not being saved correctly.
>
> I stupidly didn't save the game report separately for this game so I
> think we'll have to pick up again from here...a 'manual edit' mode for
> rails would be great to fix this situations, just allowing you to
> tweak things to the state they should be in (since I have screenshots
> of the current gamestate etc.) would be helpful when running into bugs
> likely this (I am fully aware this is by no means a small request ;))
>
> Phil
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

How did you export the order stack to a text file?  

[EV] There is a class rails.util.ListAndFixSavedFiles in the jar, that runs
as a stand-alone program.
It can be used to display a saved file, and also to truncate it at some
point.

Re: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

BTW I have fixed an error in the message displayed: the expected player name
(in this case the Priority holder) was missing (and represented as '{1}').

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...] 
Sent: Wednesday 17 February 2010 21:36
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: RE: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

Looking at the log, what seems to have happened at the end of OR 4.1 is the
following:

Dixie (pres. Simon) has just completed its first OR. So it wasn't allowed to
do any share trading yet.
However, the saved file contains 2 consecutive Done actions at the end of
that turn.
The first Done came after Dixie buying a train, and the second one (still by
Simon) can only be explained if Dixie has incorrectly got the opportunity to
trade shares. Can you remember if such a thing has happened?

I cannot exclude your suggestion that using Undo/Redo might have disturbed
things. Most likely Undo/Redo isn't perfect yet, although I'm not aware of
any particular failure points. I just remember vaguely occasionally having
seen misfits, sadly ignoring to investigate these...

Anyway, after reloading this saved file you are left at the start of SR5.
Can you reconstruct the game from there?
I have attached a dump of the saved file, listing all its actions (#128 is
the bad one). Perhaps that helps.

Erik.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...] 
Sent: Wednesday 17 February 2010 11:19
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: [Rails-devel] Saved game error

See attached saved game file

We were through to OR 6.2 when I saved this (rails 1.1.3) and on
reload it only plays through to SR5 before receiving an error.  I
assume this is as a result of too much faffing with the undo button
during play and the order stack not being saved correctly.

I stupidly didn't save the game report separately for this game so I
think we'll have to pick up again from here...a 'manual edit' mode for
rails would be great to fix this situations, just allowing you to
tweak things to the state they should be in (since I have screenshots
of the current gamestate etc.) would be helpful when running into bugs
likely this (I am fully aware this is by no means a small request ;))

Phil