rails-devel

[Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[Bill R. <ro...@gm...>]

Bug 3064825 requests the ability to select unlimited plain track only (i.e. tiles 7,8,9).  It is reported that this is included in the 18EU rules, though I cannot find it in my copy.  In any case, it maybe doesn't hurt to have the option.

I've attached a patch that makes this change for 18EU (and shouldn't break any other games).  The unlimited tiles checkbox is expanded to take the values 'No,Plain,Yes', with the default remaining 'No'.  I have also had to make a change to Tile.java to implement the 'Plain' option.  Any tile with no stations and exactly one piece of track is considered 'Plain'.  In 18EU this applies to exactly tiles 7,8, and 9, but I would rather not hardcode these tile ids.  I've also added the option to the 1826 prototype data files, but it's not currently available as no variants are defined in GameList.xml.

It is maybe worth adding this test as a function isPlain() in the Tile class, but I'm not sure: this makes the test easier to find, but will any other code will ever need to ask if a tile is 'Plain'?

Other than the comment on the bug that this is in the rules for 18EU and 1826, I see no reason to limit this to 18EU.  If this is thought to be a good idea, I can easily make changes to the other data files to enable the option across all games.

I've attached a couple of patches, again the first is in git format and the second is in Egit format.  If this seems like a good thing to apply globally, let me know and I will produce a similar patch that applies to all of the games implemented in Rails.

Bill

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

If I recall 1851 is supposed to be unlimited plain track
too...although that might already be included in rails as it stands

On 25 October 2011 11:38, Bill Rosgen <ro...@gm...> wrote:
> Bug 3064825 requests the ability to select unlimited plain track only (i.e. tiles 7,8,9).  It is reported that this is included in the 18EU rules, though I cannot find it in my copy.  In any case, it maybe doesn't hurt to have the option.
>
> I've attached a patch that makes this change for 18EU (and shouldn't break any other games).  The unlimited tiles checkbox is expanded to take the values 'No,Plain,Yes', with the default remaining 'No'.  I have also had to make a change to Tile.java to implement the 'Plain' option.  Any tile with no stations and exactly one piece of track is considered 'Plain'.  In 18EU this applies to exactly tiles 7,8, and 9, but I would rather not hardcode these tile ids.  I've also added the option to the 1826 prototype data files, but it's not currently available as no variants are defined in GameList.xml.
>
> It is maybe worth adding this test as a function isPlain() in the Tile class, but I'm not sure: this makes the test easier to find, but will any other code will ever need to ask if a tile is 'Plain'?
>
> Other than the comment on the bug that this is in the rules for 18EU and 1826, I see no reason to limit this to 18EU.  If this is thought to be a good idea, I can easily make changes to the other data files to enable the option across all games.
>
> I've attached a couple of patches, again the first is in git format and the second is in Egit format.  If this seems like a good thing to apply globally, let me know and I will produce a similar patch that applies to all of the games implemented in Rails.
>
> Bill
>
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[John A. T. <ja...@ja...>]

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 7:11 AM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:

> If I recall 1851 is supposed to be unlimited plain track
> too...although that might already be included in rails as it stands


Most DH games specifically say that plain track (7/8/9) are unlimited.

-- 
John A. Tamplin

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

My comments:

1. The 18EU rules don't specify unlimited yellow plain track tiles, so this
report isn't about a bug at all (which I guess explains why I have ignored
it so far).  Indeed several games do specify this feature, and it's perhaps
not a bad idea to open it up to all games.  BTW, has any word from the
designer been heard that he wants it this way for 18EU?

2. I suppose your layout-based behind-the-scenes selection of #7, #8 and #9
will do the job.  I just want to remark that in fact it hardcodes these
tiles even more that an explicit list (or some tile-specific  XML attribute)
would have done.  

3. IMO, the intermediate option should be named "Yellow Plain", not just
"Plain".  Or perhaps "Some" or "Partial" to leave open the option of
including (a list of) other tiles.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Rosgen [mailto:ro...@gm...]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:38 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track
> 
> Bug 3064825 requests the ability to select unlimited plain track only
(i.e. tiles
> 7,8,9).  It is reported that this is included in the 18EU rules, though I
cannot
> find it in my copy.  In any case, it maybe doesn't hurt to have the
option.
> 
> I've attached a patch that makes this change for 18EU (and shouldn't break
> any other games).  The unlimited tiles checkbox is expanded to take the
> values 'No,Plain,Yes', with the default remaining 'No'.  I have also had
to
> make a change to Tile.java to implement the 'Plain' option.  Any tile with
no
> stations and exactly one piece of track is considered 'Plain'.  In 18EU
this
> applies to exactly tiles 7,8, and 9, but I would rather not hardcode these
tile
> ids.  I've also added the option to the 1826 prototype data files, but
it's not
> currently available as no variants are defined in GameList.xml.
> 
> It is maybe worth adding this test as a function isPlain() in the Tile
class, but
> I'm not sure: this makes the test easier to find, but will any other code
will
> ever need to ask if a tile is 'Plain'?
> 
> Other than the comment on the bug that this is in the rules for 18EU and
> 1826, I see no reason to limit this to 18EU.  If this is thought to be a
good idea,
> I can easily make changes to the other data files to enable the option
across
> all games.
> 
> I've attached a couple of patches, again the first is in git format and
the
> second is in Egit format.  If this seems like a good thing to apply
globally, let
> me know and I will produce a similar patch that applies to all of the
games
> implemented in Rails.
> 
> 
> Bill

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[Bill R. <ro...@gm...>]

Erik,

I've attached patches that should enable the option for all games that had unlimited track as an option, as well as for 1889, which did not for reasons I do not understand.  (I left it out of only the few prototype games that have no game options.)

I've also renamed the option to "Yellow Plain".

I can find no quote from the designer as to whether or not he prefers unlimited plain yellow track in 18EU.  I've left the default option as 'No' in all cases, though it is reasonable to change this for 1826 and 1851.  The 1851 rules I can find on the internet suggest that the number of 7,8,9 tiles provided is not intended to be a limit.  My internet connection is currently quite poor, and so I am unable to verify that this is the rule also in 1826.  (The 18xx difference list states that plain yellow track is unlimited in both of these games.)

As usual, there are two patches, the first in git format and the second in Egit format.

Bill

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2011-10-25 03:38, Bill Rosgen wrote:
> I've attached a couple of patches, again the first is in git format and the second is in Egit format.  If this seems like a good thing to apply globally, let me know and I will produce a similar patch that applies to all of the games implemented in Rails.

I would like it to be global.  1853 v1 gives this as an optional rule, and I've seen
it in other games, including as a house rule.

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Bill,

Thanks. I have applied your update.  
For 1826 and 1851 I have set the default value to "Yellow Plain". For 1851
it's in the rules, and for 1826 (v1) in the (as I understand: "official")
Steve Thomas/Chris Lawson clarification.
I haven't checked other games; the Rules Differences site does not mention
any other games that we currently cover in Rails.

Apologies that I have not included your name as the Author of this and the
previous fix - I'm just now discovering that I can and should set the
correct Author while committing.
Hopefully I'll remember it next time...

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Rosgen [mailto:ro...@gm...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:21 AM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track
> 
> Erik,
> 
> I've attached patches that should enable the option for all games that had
> unlimited track as an option, as well as for 1889, which did not for
reasons I
> do not understand.  (I left it out of only the few prototype games that
have
> no game options.)
> 
> I've also renamed the option to "Yellow Plain".
> 
> I can find no quote from the designer as to whether or not he prefers
> unlimited plain yellow track in 18EU.  I've left the default option as
'No' in all
> cases, though it is reasonable to change this for 1826 and 1851.  The 1851
> rules I can find on the internet suggest that the number of 7,8,9 tiles
> provided is not intended to be a limit.  My internet connection is
currently
> quite poor, and so I am unable to verify that this is the rule also in
1826.  (The
> 18xx difference list states that plain yellow track is unlimited in both
of these
> games.)
> 
> As usual, there are two patches, the first in git format and the second in
Egit
> format.
> 
> Bill

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[John A. T. <ja...@ja...>]

For the games I publish, here are the ones which definitively state whether
7/8/9 are unlimited or not:

   - 1812 - unlimited [7.3.2,p7]
   - 1846 - unlimited [6.22, p5]
   - 1889 - not unlimited [the beginner variant specifically adds extra
   7/8/9, p12]
   - 18Ardennes - unlimited [6.3, p8]
   - 18West - unlimited [8.1, p12]

The rest do not specify one way or the other.

-- 
John A. Tamplin

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Bill & Erik:
just a short comment on the implementation:

As you know all options are duplicated in both the central GamesList.xml as in 
the game-specific Game.xml. 

However the default attribute of the GameOption element in Game.xml has a 
different effect for Rails than the default attribute for the Option element 
in GamesList.xml.

A) Default of Option in GamesList.xml
This is the default value suggested to use if a new game gets started.
A saved game always saves the concrete setting of each option regardless if 
this is the default or not.
This value will never effect loaded games.

B) Default of GameOption in Game.xml:
This is default value is ONLY used for loaded games that do not have the value
defined as the option was previously unimplemented for that specific game.
So a better name for this attribute would be undefined. Even better would be 
merging the two option elements and keep default and undefined attributes 
aside.

A rule of thumb if one introduces new values is simply setting the default in 
GamesList.xml to the value best suited for that game and the default in 
Game.xml to that value that existing games had been used implicitly. 

As both games with a changed option (1826 and 1851) had that option defined 
before it does not matter, as the save files will keep their selected option 
and will not change without players being aware.

Stefan


On Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:28:40 am Erik Vos wrote:
> Bill,
> 
> Thanks. I have applied your update.
> For 1826 and 1851 I have set the default value to "Yellow Plain". For 1851
> it's in the rules, and for 1826 (v1) in the (as I understand: "official")
> Steve Thomas/Chris Lawson clarification.
> I haven't checked other games; the Rules Differences site does not mention
> any other games that we currently cover in Rails.
> 
> Apologies that I have not included your name as the Author of this and the
> previous fix - I'm just now discovering that I can and should set the
> correct Author while committing.
> Hopefully I'll remember it next time...
> 
> Erik.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Rosgen [mailto:ro...@gm...]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:21 AM
> > To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU game option: unlimited plain track
> > 
> > Erik,
> > 
> > I've attached patches that should enable the option for all games that
> > had unlimited track as an option, as well as for 1889, which did not for
> 
> reasons I
> 
> > do not understand.  (I left it out of only the few prototype games that
> 
> have
> 
> > no game options.)
> > 
> > I've also renamed the option to "Yellow Plain".
> > 
> > I can find no quote from the designer as to whether or not he prefers
> > unlimited plain yellow track in 18EU.  I've left the default option as
> 
> 'No' in all
> 
> > cases, though it is reasonable to change this for 1826 and 1851.  The
> > 1851 rules I can find on the internet suggest that the number of 7,8,9
> > tiles provided is not intended to be a limit.  My internet connection is
> 
> currently
> 
> > quite poor, and so I am unable to verify that this is the rule also in
> 
> 1826.  (The
> 
> > 18xx difference list states that plain yellow track is unlimited in both
> 
> of these
> 
> > games.)
> > 
> > As usual, there are two patches, the first in git format and the second
> > in
> 
> Egit
> 
> > format.
> > 
> > Bill
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- The demand for IT networking professionals continues to grow, and the
> demand for specialized networking skills is growing even more rapidly.
> Take a complimentary Learning@Cisco Self-Assessment and learn
> about Cisco certifications, training, and career opportunities.
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> _______________________________________________
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