rails-devel

[Rails-devel] Another library to add?

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Brett & Erik,
going forward I am considering refactoring the xml initialization of 
Rails. Further I did a short comparison of the feature and syntax of a 
few xml serialization libraries for java and very quickly found one that 
pleases me.

The idea of the newer libraries add is that it is possible to align the 
java classes and xml elements, so that in effect you do not have to 
write anymore manually for parsing. Most of them use annotations to 
control this mechanism.

So my proposal is to use Simple Serialization Library
(see http://simple.sourceforge.net/home.php)

Checkout 
http://simple.sourceforge.net/download/stream/doc/tutorial/tutorial.php 
for documentation and code examples).

(Reasonable Alternatives were XStream and Jackson with XML extension and 
Protostuff, I do not like JAXB)

I am still considering to choose a more compact format (like Json or 
even a binary one like Kryo or Smile) for the planned network play.

Stefan

Re: [Rails-devel] Another library to add?

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> Brett & Erik,
> going forward I am considering refactoring the xml initialization of
> Rails. Further I did a short comparison of the feature and syntax of a
> few xml serialization libraries for java and very quickly found one that
> pleases me.
>
> The idea of the newer libraries add is that it is possible to align the
> java classes and xml elements, so that in effect you do not have to
> write anymore manually for parsing. Most of them use annotations to
> control this mechanism.
>

+1 from me. Annotation/Decorators are a fantastic way to handle this.
Also, the removal of manual parsing code is a huge win, IMO.

> So my proposal is to use Simple Serialization Library
> (see http://simple.sourceforge.net/home.php)
>
> Checkout
> http://simple.sourceforge.net/download/stream/doc/tutorial/tutorial.php
> for documentation and code examples).
>
> (Reasonable Alternatives were XStream and Jackson with XML extension and
> Protostuff, I do not like JAXB)
>
> I am still considering to choose a more compact format (like Json or
> even a binary one like Kryo or Smile) for the planned network play.

Given the choice, I'd opt for JSON or YAML over binary formats.
They're well-known, well-supported, and (most importantly) easier to
debug.

Over the wire, we can use compression to slim down the bandwidth
requirements of transmitting plain-text data.

>
> Stefan
>

---Brett.

Re: [Rails-devel] Another library to add?

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

What problems would this solve?

For initialization: it would be nice if XML data and objects were anywhere
near have a to 1:1 relationship, but in many cases that is far from being
the case. 
So I suppose this would cause much rework.

For communication: I would tend to consider XML too verbose for such a
purpose.  It's not for nothing that (I believe) Google has invented a more
compact format.
And for all I know XML parsing and creation is slooow, but perhaps that is
due to the old libraries we now use?
Indeed we need something, but I can't provide much insight.
I had in mind something like uuencoded Serialized objects (the Java way),
but I suppose that is way too primitive for these days. 
And of course it would be a big benefit if the transmission is readable.

Anyway, don't be put off by my (as usual) somewhat sceptical attitude.  I'm
way backwards in most of these matters.

Erik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: brett lentz [mailto:bre...@gm...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 7:05 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Another library to add?
> 
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> > Brett & Erik,
> > going forward I am considering refactoring the xml initialization of
> > Rails. Further I did a short comparison of the feature and syntax of a
> > few xml serialization libraries for java and very quickly found one
> > that pleases me.
> >
> > The idea of the newer libraries add is that it is possible to align
> > the java classes and xml elements, so that in effect you do not have
> > to write anymore manually for parsing. Most of them use annotations to
> > control this mechanism.
> >
> 
> +1 from me. Annotation/Decorators are a fantastic way to handle this.
> Also, the removal of manual parsing code is a huge win, IMO.
> 
> > So my proposal is to use Simple Serialization Library (see
> > http://simple.sourceforge.net/home.php)
> >
> > Checkout
> > http://simple.sourceforge.net/download/stream/doc/tutorial/tutorial.ph
> > p
> > for documentation and code examples).
> >
> > (Reasonable Alternatives were XStream and Jackson with XML extension
> > and Protostuff, I do not like JAXB)
> >
> > I am still considering to choose a more compact format (like Json or
> > even a binary one like Kryo or Smile) for the planned network play.
> 
> Given the choice, I'd opt for JSON or YAML over binary formats.
> They're well-known, well-supported, and (most importantly) easier to
> debug.
> 
> Over the wire, we can use compression to slim down the bandwidth
> requirements of transmitting plain-text data.
> 
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> 
> ---Brett.
> 
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Another library to add?

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Erik:
first of all it could help to solve the problem you describe below.
Currently the xml encoding and the rails classes are far from being a
one:to:one relationship.
Even if there is good reason to have that, it would be easier to 
support, test and code if the xml gets first read into a java object 
that closely resembles that structure and then translate that into the 
object that is used later on inside Rails.

Example:
You would first create a CompanyDefinition object which is very close 
the XML and then this is converted into the true Rails Company object.
This would allow disconnect the creation of a Rails company from the xml 
code an thus make it easier to create a company by code directly for 
testing.

And your question what does including a new technology helps us solving 
is always a relevant one, there is nothing backwards with that approach.
Stefan

On 06/06/2012 10:47 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> What problems would this solve?
>
> For initialization: it would be nice if XML data and objects were anywhere
> near have a to 1:1 relationship, but in many cases that is far from being
> the case.
> So I suppose this would cause much rework.
>
> For communication: I would tend to consider XML too verbose for such a
> purpose.  It's not for nothing that (I believe) Google has invented a more
> compact format.
> And for all I know XML parsing and creation is slooow, but perhaps that is
> due to the old libraries we now use?
> Indeed we need something, but I can't provide much insight.
> I had in mind something like uuencoded Serialized objects (the Java way),
> but I suppose that is way too primitive for these days.
> And of course it would be a big benefit if the transmission is readable.
>
> Anyway, don't be put off by my (as usual) somewhat sceptical attitude.  I'm
> way backwards in most of these matters.
>
> Erik
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: brett lentz [mailto:bre...@gm...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 7:05 PM
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Another library to add?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Stefan Frey<ste...@we...>  wrote:
>>> Brett&  Erik,
>>> going forward I am considering refactoring the xml initialization of
>>> Rails. Further I did a short comparison of the feature and syntax of a
>>> few xml serialization libraries for java and very quickly found one
>>> that pleases me.
>>>
>>> The idea of the newer libraries add is that it is possible to align
>>> the java classes and xml elements, so that in effect you do not have
>>> to write anymore manually for parsing. Most of them use annotations to
>>> control this mechanism.
>>>
>>
>> +1 from me. Annotation/Decorators are a fantastic way to handle this.
>> Also, the removal of manual parsing code is a huge win, IMO.
>>
>>> So my proposal is to use Simple Serialization Library (see
>>> http://simple.sourceforge.net/home.php)
>>>
>>> Checkout
>>> http://simple.sourceforge.net/download/stream/doc/tutorial/tutorial.ph
>>> p
>>> for documentation and code examples).
>>>
>>> (Reasonable Alternatives were XStream and Jackson with XML extension
>>> and Protostuff, I do not like JAXB)
>>>
>>> I am still considering to choose a more compact format (like Json or
>>> even a binary one like Kryo or Smile) for the planned network play.
>>
>> Given the choice, I'd opt for JSON or YAML over binary formats.
>> They're well-known, well-supported, and (most importantly) easier to
>> debug.
>>
>> Over the wire, we can use compression to slim down the bandwidth
>> requirements of transmitting plain-text data.
>>
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>
>> ---Brett.
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
>> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
>> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel