rails-devel

[Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

Most of the bugs I found in earlier versions are now gone, and I was able
to play the game through to the end.

These problems still exist.

1. Map still doesn't show which cities are "Y" or "XX".

2. During and after the starting round, it would be helpful to see what
percentage of the Prussian each player holds (that is, including shares
they will eventually receive in exchange for privates/minors now owned).
I suggest this be shown in (parentheses) in the Pr row of the table.

3. When the 4+4 train is purchased (after the Prussian has formed), all
players get asked whether to convert our remaining minors.  (This is only
supposed to happen (a) when the M2 converts, thus forming the Prussian, or
(b) at the beginnings of rounds.  Thus we should not be asked upon the 4+4
purchase unless the owner of M2 declined all earlier opportunities to form
the Prussian and so is forced to form it then.)

4. While I haven't exhaustively tested the different combinations of buying
and selling certificates in companies that have more than one size, the
obvious bugs there appear fixed.  However, the display still does not show
which certificates each player has (and it's often important to know,
especially if you're considering nationalizing the big one).  I suggest a
tooltip showing this information when you hover over that player's holding.

5. The train limit for most major companies gets reduced to two, and I am
forced to discard one, upon the 4+4-train purchase.  This is not supposed
to happen until the first 5-train purchase.

6. When I was forced to purchase a train using money out of hand, the
program forced me to buy the 3 from the bank pool rather than the 6 which
is the next new train for sale.  I believe I am supposed to be allowed to
buy the 6-train.

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

I'd definitely second this as something that needs thinking about

On 13 July 2011 06:31, John David Galt <jd...@di...> wrote:
> 4. While I haven't exhaustively tested the different combinations of buying
> and selling certificates in companies that have more than one size, the
> obvious bugs there appear fixed.  However, the display still does not show
> which certificates each player has (and it's often important to know,
> especially if you're considering nationalizing the big one).  I suggest a
> tooltip showing this information when you hover over that player's holding.

Differing size certs is an issue that rails is going to have with it's
display as it only denotes share allowance and who is the president.
This is fine for usually 20% P share and 8*10% shares but 1835 does
get confusing as it's easy to forget who has which niggly little 5%
share floating around.  I'm not sure a tooltip is the easiest answer -
something that can be displayed clearer in the UI might be better but
I'm unsure how to achieve that.  Perhaps a small number in parenthesis
next to the share count that states the cert count for that
corporation? Then a tooltip could give you an exact breakdown of that
share distribution perhaps?

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Thanks for this (I believe third) 1835 playtest report.  I will look at the
reported bugs 3, 5, 6 - did you perhaps save the game at those points?  Bugs
always get fixed a lot faster if I don't have to reconstruct problem cases
myself.  I will also think about your UI suggestions.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 7:32 AM
> To: rai...@li...
> Subject: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2
> 
> Most of the bugs I found in earlier versions are now gone, and I was able
to
> play the game through to the end.
> 
> These problems still exist.
> 
> 1. Map still doesn't show which cities are "Y" or "XX".
> 
> 2. During and after the starting round, it would be helpful to see what
> percentage of the Prussian each player holds (that is, including shares
they
> will eventually receive in exchange for privates/minors now owned).
> I suggest this be shown in (parentheses) in the Pr row of the table.
> 
> 3. When the 4+4 train is purchased (after the Prussian has formed), all
> players get asked whether to convert our remaining minors.  (This is only
> supposed to happen (a) when the M2 converts, thus forming the Prussian, or
> (b) at the beginnings of rounds.  Thus we should not be asked upon the 4+4
> purchase unless the owner of M2 declined all earlier opportunities to form
> the Prussian and so is forced to form it then.)
> 
> 4. While I haven't exhaustively tested the different combinations of
buying
> and selling certificates in companies that have more than one size, the
> obvious bugs there appear fixed.  However, the display still does not show
> which certificates each player has (and it's often important to know,
> especially if you're considering nationalizing the big one).  I suggest a
tooltip
> showing this information when you hover over that player's holding.
> 
> 5. The train limit for most major companies gets reduced to two, and I am
> forced to discard one, upon the 4+4-train purchase.  This is not supposed
to
> happen until the first 5-train purchase.
> 
> 6. When I was forced to purchase a train using money out of hand, the
> program forced me to buy the 3 from the bank pool rather than the 6 which
> is the next new train for sale.  I believe I am supposed to be allowed to
buy
> the 6-train.
> 
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2011-07-13 01:56, Erik Vos wrote:
> Thanks for this (I believe third) 1835 playtest report.  I will look at the
> reported bugs 3, 5, 6 - did you perhaps save the game at those points?  Bugs
> always get fixed a lot faster if I don't have to reconstruct problem cases
> myself.  I will also think about your UI suggestions.

I saved the game once, about the time of bug 5.  Here it is (and I've copied
you in case the list filters it out).

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Last year there were still some bugs related to issue 4 (buying/selling 
certificates of PR). I do not think they are not all fixed, Erik?

On my to-do-list there is a re-factoring of the code that deal with 
certificate limits and/or director change as this code is spread 
around/duplicated at several places and then the Prussian cases should be 
dealt with.

Note: If someone else does such a test game (which is a great help), a save 
file from the game end is the best. Given that is possible to jump at any 
point of the game via the Game Report window all earlier bugs can be 
recreated.

And in addition the test game can be added to the automated testing.
(At least after Brett fixed the issues that currently prevent testing ;-).

Stefan


On Wednesday, July 13, 2011 10:56:22 am Erik Vos wrote:
> Thanks for this (I believe third) 1835 playtest report.  I will look at the
> reported bugs 3, 5, 6 - did you perhaps save the game at those points? 
> Bugs always get fixed a lot faster if I don't have to reconstruct problem
> cases myself.  I will also think about your UI suggestions.
> 
> Erik.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 7:32 AM
> > To: rai...@li...
> > Subject: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2
> > 
> > Most of the bugs I found in earlier versions are now gone, and I was able
> 
> to
> 
> > play the game through to the end.
> > 
> > These problems still exist.
> > 
> > 1. Map still doesn't show which cities are "Y" or "XX".
> > 
> > 2. During and after the starting round, it would be helpful to see what
> > percentage of the Prussian each player holds (that is, including shares
> 
> they
> 
> > will eventually receive in exchange for privates/minors now owned).
> > I suggest this be shown in (parentheses) in the Pr row of the table.
> > 
> > 3. When the 4+4 train is purchased (after the Prussian has formed), all
> > players get asked whether to convert our remaining minors.  (This is only
> > supposed to happen (a) when the M2 converts, thus forming the Prussian,
> > or (b) at the beginnings of rounds.  Thus we should not be asked upon
> > the 4+4 purchase unless the owner of M2 declined all earlier
> > opportunities to form the Prussian and so is forced to form it then.)
> > 
> > 4. While I haven't exhaustively tested the different combinations of
> 
> buying
> 
> > and selling certificates in companies that have more than one size, the
> > obvious bugs there appear fixed.  However, the display still does not
> > show which certificates each player has (and it's often important to
> > know, especially if you're considering nationalizing the big one).  I
> > suggest a
> 
> tooltip
> 
> > showing this information when you hover over that player's holding.
> > 
> > 5. The train limit for most major companies gets reduced to two, and I am
> > forced to discard one, upon the 4+4-train purchase.  This is not supposed
> 
> to
> 
> > happen until the first 5-train purchase.
> > 
> > 6. When I was forced to purchase a train using money out of hand, the
> > program forced me to buy the 3 from the bank pool rather than the 6 which
> > is the next new train for sale.  I believe I am supposed to be allowed to
> 
> buy
> 
> > the 6-train.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> - --
> 
> > AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric
> > Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on "Lean Startup
> > Secrets Revealed." This video shows you how to validate your ideas,
> > optimize your ideas and identify your business strategy.
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- AppSumo Presents a FREE Video for the SourceForge Community by Eric
> Ries, the creator of the Lean Startup Methodology on "Lean Startup Secrets
> Revealed." This video shows you how to validate your ideas, optimize your
> ideas and identify your business strategy.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appsumosfdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> 
> These problems still exist.
> 
> 3. When the 4+4 train is purchased (after the Prussian has formed), all
> players get asked whether to convert our remaining minors.  (This is only
> supposed to happen (a) when the M2 converts, thus forming the Prussian, or
> (b) at the beginnings of rounds.  Thus we should not be asked upon the 4+4
> purchase unless the owner of M2 declined all earlier opportunities to form
> the Prussian and so is forced to form it then.)

Confirmed, will be fixed.
 
> 5. The train limit for most major companies gets reduced to two, and I am
> forced to discard one, upon the 4+4-train purchase.  This is not supposed
to
> happen until the first 5-train purchase.

Conformed, this is a configuration issue that will be fixed with the new
phase management approach.

> 6. When I was forced to purchase a train using money out of hand, the
> program forced me to buy the 3 from the bank pool rather than the 6 which
> is the next new train for sale.  I believe I am supposed to be allowed to
buy
> the 6-train.

Indeed. This relates to another problem with 1856, reported by Aliza Panitz
months ago:

> However, a play-forward of a game I'm in has Rails telling a company
> president that they may contribute cash up to the face value of the train
in
> question when making a forced purchase from another company.

1835 behaves the same way. It's a generic problem: all games still follow
the emergency train buying rules of 1830.  That obviously needs to be
addressed.

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 playtest report - Rails 1.4.2

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

> > 3. When the 4+4 train is purchased (after the Prussian has formed),
> > all players get asked whether to convert our remaining minors.  (This
> > is only supposed to happen (a) when the M2 converts, thus forming the
> > Prussian, or
> > (b) at the beginnings of rounds.  Thus we should not be asked upon the
> > 4+4 purchase unless the owner of M2 declined all earlier opportunities
> > to form the Prussian and so is forced to form it then.)
> 
> Confirmed, will be fixed.

Fixed (Git commit df0250...).