rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

I am working down the pile of bugs that were reported after the Rails 
2.0 development branched off from Rails 1.x.

The situation here is that all Prussian shares have been in players 
hand, the Prussian itself was started, however the Prussian share price 
did not increase at the end of the StockRound.

There was a fix committed, however it did not work as intended.

In addition there was GameOption that would allow a house rule (no 
increase of PR as long as there are some PR shares not exchanged).
However I removed that the GameOption as the rules both English and 
German are pretty clear on that topic.

Should be in the next beta release. Sourceforge now estimates to make 
the file upload end of day 31/07.

Stefan


On 04/28/2013 10:44 PM, Schnell, Volker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> here is the next issue to 1835.
> the prussian gets startet in OR 4.2 with a Sharevalue 154.
> in the share dealing round all 10% Shares were bought by the players and
> none were sold.
> at the end of the Share Dealing round there were no Shares in the Bank
> pool nor  initial Shares are available. Some pre-Prussians company were
> not closed.
> Rails: at the End of the round  the share price of the pru is not moved
> up one row.
>
> (comment of rails:All players have passed, end of SR 5, SX price goes
> from 112M(F4) to 122M(F3).
>
> SX is sold out, price rises from 112M(F4) to 122M(F3)
> BY price goes from 106M(G6) to 114M(G5).
> BY is sold out, price rises from 106M(G6) to 114M(G5)
> BA price goes from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3).
> BA is sold out, price rises from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3)
> HE price goes from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3).
> HE is sold out, price rises from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3))
>
> English Rules, XiV, 4: if at the end of a share Dealing Round, all
> purchasable shares in a company are owned by players, i.e. sold and none
> in the bank pool, then the share price marker is moved up one row on the
> share price index.
>
> This statement is true for the prussian.
>
> is it possible, to adjust rails (1.7.12) ?
>
> greetings
>
> volker
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[<vol...@ar...>]

Hi Stefan,
the option was reverse. in Standard the Pru-Shareprice does not increase, when all 10% Bank Pru are sold but not all Pru Shares are exchanged.
The option increase the shareprice.
greetings
Volker


----- Original Nachricht ----
Von:     Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
An:      "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game" <rai...@li...>
Datum:   30.07.2015 14:00
Betreff: Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

> I am working down the pile of bugs that were reported after the Rails 
> 2.0 development branched off from Rails 1.x.
> 
> The situation here is that all Prussian shares have been in players 
> hand, the Prussian itself was started, however the Prussian share price 
> did not increase at the end of the StockRound.
> 
> There was a fix committed, however it did not work as intended.
> 
> In addition there was GameOption that would allow a house rule (no 
> increase of PR as long as there are some PR shares not exchanged).
> However I removed that the GameOption as the rules both English and 
> German are pretty clear on that topic.
> 
> Should be in the next beta release. Sourceforge now estimates to make 
> the file upload end of day 31/07.
> 
> Stefan
> 
> 
> On 04/28/2013 10:44 PM, Schnell, Volker wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > here is the next issue to 1835.
> > the prussian gets startet in OR 4.2 with a Sharevalue 154.
> > in the share dealing round all 10% Shares were bought by the players and
> > none were sold.
> > at the end of the Share Dealing round there were no Shares in the Bank
> > pool nor  initial Shares are available. Some pre-Prussians company were
> > not closed.
> > Rails: at the End of the round  the share price of the pru is not moved
> > up one row.
> >
> > (comment of rails:All players have passed, end of SR 5, SX price goes
> > from 112M(F4) to 122M(F3).
> >
> > SX is sold out, price rises from 112M(F4) to 122M(F3)
> > BY price goes from 106M(G6) to 114M(G5).
> > BY is sold out, price rises from 106M(G6) to 114M(G5)
> > BA price goes from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3).
> > BA is sold out, price rises from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3)
> > HE price goes from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3).
> > HE is sold out, price rises from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3))
> >
> > English Rules, XiV, 4: if at the end of a share Dealing Round, all
> > purchasable shares in a company are owned by players, i.e. sold and none
> > in the bank pool, then the share price marker is moved up one row on the
> > share price index.
> >
> > This statement is true for the prussian.
> >
> > is it possible, to adjust rails (1.7.12) ?
> >
> > greetings
> >
> > volker
> >
> >
> 

-- 
Volker Schnell
email: vol...@ar...
homepage: home.arcor.de\volker_schnell

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Hi Volker,
thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the 
Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard", but 
simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else) 
has a different opinion on that matter?

At least for the two rules set I consulted.

English (2nd):
"If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a 
company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool, 
then the share price...".

German (2nd):
"Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb 
befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte 
Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."


The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the 
company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.

I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for a 
game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good 
support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.

Stefan


On 07/30/2015 02:17 PM, vol...@ar... wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> the option was reverse. in Standard the Pru-Shareprice does not increase, when all 10% Bank Pru are sold but not all Pru Shares are exchanged.
> The option increase the shareprice.
> greetings
> Volker
>
>
> ----- Original Nachricht ----
> Von:     Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
> An:      "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game" <rai...@li...>
> Datum:   30.07.2015 14:00
> Betreff: Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR
>
>> I am working down the pile of bugs that were reported after the Rails
>> 2.0 development branched off from Rails 1.x.
>>
>> The situation here is that all Prussian shares have been in players
>> hand, the Prussian itself was started, however the Prussian share price
>> did not increase at the end of the StockRound.
>>
>> There was a fix committed, however it did not work as intended.
>>
>> In addition there was GameOption that would allow a house rule (no
>> increase of PR as long as there are some PR shares not exchanged).
>> However I removed that the GameOption as the rules both English and
>> German are pretty clear on that topic.
>>
>> Should be in the next beta release. Sourceforge now estimates to make
>> the file upload end of day 31/07.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> On 04/28/2013 10:44 PM, Schnell, Volker wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> here is the next issue to 1835.
>>> the prussian gets startet in OR 4.2 with a Sharevalue 154.
>>> in the share dealing round all 10% Shares were bought by the players and
>>> none were sold.
>>> at the end of the Share Dealing round there were no Shares in the Bank
>>> pool nor  initial Shares are available. Some pre-Prussians company were
>>> not closed.
>>> Rails: at the End of the round  the share price of the pru is not moved
>>> up one row.
>>>
>>> (comment of rails:All players have passed, end of SR 5, SX price goes
>>> from 112M(F4) to 122M(F3).
>>>
>>> SX is sold out, price rises from 112M(F4) to 122M(F3)
>>> BY price goes from 106M(G6) to 114M(G5).
>>> BY is sold out, price rises from 106M(G6) to 114M(G5)
>>> BA price goes from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3).
>>> BA is sold out, price rises from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3)
>>> HE price goes from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3).
>>> HE is sold out, price rises from 84M(B4) to 86M(B3))
>>>
>>> English Rules, XiV, 4: if at the end of a share Dealing Round, all
>>> purchasable shares in a company are owned by players, i.e. sold and none
>>> in the bank pool, then the share price marker is moved up one row on the
>>> share price index.
>>>
>>> This statement is true for the prussian.
>>>
>>> is it possible, to adjust rails (1.7.12) ?
>>>
>>> greetings
>>>
>>> volker
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
> Hi Volker,
> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the 
> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard", but 
> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else) 
> has a different opinion on that matter?
> 
> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
> 
> English (2nd):
> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a 
> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool, 
> then the share price...".
> 
> German (2nd):
> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb 
> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte 
> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
> 
> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the 
> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
> 
> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for a 
> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good 
> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
> 
> Stefan

I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
up and prefer it that way.

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Still open issue:

What is the default setting for this game option?

My current understanding from the rules set (2nd version DE and EN) 
available to me is that the default is that Prussian stock price raises 
even if there are un-exchanged (reserved) shares in the bank.

However both (experienced) players John and Volker prefer the reverse as 
default. It could be that the 1st version of the rules were different? 
However I cannot find those online. Maybe anyone of you can check those?

Most likely I will forward the question to 18xx yahoo, if we cannot find 
a clear answer.

Stefan


On 07/31/2015 11:57 PM, John David Galt wrote:
> On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
>> Hi Volker,
>> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the
>> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard", but
>> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else)
>> has a different opinion on that matter?
>>
>> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
>>
>> English (2nd):
>> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a
>> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool,
>> then the share price...".
>>
>> German (2nd):
>> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb
>> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte
>> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
>>
>> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the
>> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
>>
>> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for a
>> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good
>> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
>>
>> Stefan
>
> I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
> up and prefer it that way.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

Hi Stefan,
you misunderstood Volker there. He wanted the unexchanged shares to be 
ignored.

Regards,
Martin
Am 17.08.15 um 15:57 schrieb Stefan Frey:
> Still open issue:
>
> What is the default setting for this game option?
>
> My current understanding from the rules set (2nd version DE and EN)
> available to me is that the default is that Prussian stock price raises
> even if there are un-exchanged (reserved) shares in the bank.
>
> However both (experienced) players John and Volker prefer the reverse as
> default. It could be that the 1st version of the rules were different?
> However I cannot find those online. Maybe anyone of you can check those?
>
> Most likely I will forward the question to 18xx yahoo, if we cannot find
> a clear answer.
>
> Stefan
>
>
> On 07/31/2015 11:57 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>> On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
>>> Hi Volker,
>>> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the
>>> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard", but
>>> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else)
>>> has a different opinion on that matter?
>>>
>>> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
>>>
>>> English (2nd):
>>> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a
>>> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool,
>>> then the share price...".
>>>
>>> German (2nd):
>>> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb
>>> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte
>>> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
>>>
>>> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the
>>> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
>>>
>>> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for a
>>> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good
>>> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
>>>
>>> Stefan
>> I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
>> up and prefer it that way.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[<com...@ip...>]

I've posed the question to a friend who has a copy of the game. My memory
is that the rules aren't clear on the subject, but that our interpretation
has always been that since the owners of the private companies that have
not merged with the Prussian have had the chance to do so and not exercised
that option, it is not considered to be fully subscribed. I will post his
reply when I receive it.

Mike

>-- Original Message --
>To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>	<rai...@li...>
>From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:57:43 +0200
>Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR
>Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>	<rai...@li...>
>
>
>Still open issue:
>
>What is the default setting for this game option?
>
>My current understanding from the rules set (2nd version DE and EN) 
>available to me is that the default is that Prussian stock price raises

>even if there are un-exchanged (reserved) shares in the bank.
>
>However both (experienced) players John and Volker prefer the reverse as
>
>default. It could be that the 1st version of the rules were different? 
>However I cannot find those online. Maybe anyone of you can check those?
>
>Most likely I will forward the question to 18xx yahoo, if we cannot find
>
>a clear answer.
>
>Stefan
>
>
>On 07/31/2015 11:57 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>> On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
>>> Hi Volker,
>>> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the
>>> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard",
but
>>> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else)
>>> has a different opinion on that matter?
>>>
>>> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
>>>
>>> English (2nd):
>>> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a
>>> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool,
>>> then the share price...".
>>>
>>> German (2nd):
>>> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb
>>> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte
>>> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
>>>
>>> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the
>>> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
>>>
>>> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for
a
>>> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good
>>> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>
>> I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
>> up and prefer it that way.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>_______________________________________________
>Rails-devel mailing list
>Rai...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

Hi,

let me step in there again.

We do have to make a difference in time/game phase.

Previously the game didnt raise the prie of the prussian if the new 
shares had been sold out because there were still the reserved ones that 
couldnt be exchanged at that time.

I do agree that once the prussian gets active and the minors may be 
exchanged that this is an entire different scenario, which i dont really 
want to judge. I think that the share price should rise cause 
technically all shares are in play (even some as minors or privates) but 
i can see the merit in the statement below.
My intention with the option was to fix the first (flawed in my opinion) 
behaviour though.

Regards,
Martin
Am 17.08.15 um 16:44 schrieb com...@ip...:
> I've posed the question to a friend who has a copy of the game. My memory
> is that the rules aren't clear on the subject, but that our interpretation
> has always been that since the owners of the private companies that have
> not merged with the Prussian have had the chance to do so and not exercised
> that option, it is not considered to be fully subscribed. I will post his
> reply when I receive it.
>
> Mike
>
>> -- Original Message --
>> To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>> 	<rai...@li...>
>> From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:57:43 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR
>> Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>> 	<rai...@li...>
>>
>>
>> Still open issue:
>>
>> What is the default setting for this game option?
>>
>> My current understanding from the rules set (2nd version DE and EN)
>> available to me is that the default is that Prussian stock price raises
>> even if there are un-exchanged (reserved) shares in the bank.
>>
>> However both (experienced) players John and Volker prefer the reverse as
>>
>> default. It could be that the 1st version of the rules were different?
>> However I cannot find those online. Maybe anyone of you can check those?
>>
>> Most likely I will forward the question to 18xx yahoo, if we cannot find
>>
>> a clear answer.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> On 07/31/2015 11:57 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>>> On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
>>>> Hi Volker,
>>>> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the
>>>> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard",
> but
>>>> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else)
>>>> has a different opinion on that matter?
>>>>
>>>> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
>>>>
>>>> English (2nd):
>>>> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a
>>>> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool,
>>>> then the share price...".
>>>>
>>>> German (2nd):
>>>> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb
>>>> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte
>>>> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
>>>>
>>>> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the
>>>> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
>>>>
>>>> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for
> a
>>>> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good
>>>> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
>>>>
>>>> Stefan
>>> I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
>>> up and prefer it that way.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>>> Rai...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Martin:
seems to be another mis-understanding, but good to be clear about it.

I was always talking about the second scenario (PR operating, all 4 10% 
shares sold, but not all minors/privates exchanged). The test file from 
Volker bug report was for this scenario.

The first (PR not operating, thus none of the minors/privates exchanged, 
but all 4 10% shares sold) is clearly ruled in the German second edition 
rules => PR cannot raise, as it is non-operating.

German second edition (2.6.3.4):
"... einer im Betrieb befindlichen... "

Unfortunately there is no equivalent in the English second edition of 
the rules. One has to keep in mind, that the English second rules 
edition is still based on the German first edition.

Stefan

1835 is the equivalent to "Doppelkopf" of 18xx. ;-)


On 08/17/2015 06:27 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> let me step in there again.
>
> We do have to make a difference in time/game phase.
>
> Previously the game didnt raise the prie of the prussian if the new
> shares had been sold out because there were still the reserved ones that
> couldnt be exchanged at that time.
>
> I do agree that once the prussian gets active and the minors may be
> exchanged that this is an entire different scenario, which i dont really
> want to judge. I think that the share price should rise cause
> technically all shares are in play (even some as minors or privates) but
> i can see the merit in the statement below.
> My intention with the option was to fix the first (flawed in my opinion)
> behaviour though.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> Am 17.08.15 um 16:44 schrieb com...@ip...:
>> I've posed the question to a friend who has a copy of the game. My memory
>> is that the rules aren't clear on the subject, but that our interpretation
>> has always been that since the owners of the private companies that have
>> not merged with the Prussian have had the chance to do so and not exercised
>> that option, it is not considered to be fully subscribed. I will post his
>> reply when I receive it.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>>> 	<rai...@li...>
>>> From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>>> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:57:43 +0200
>>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR
>>> Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>>> 	<rai...@li...>
>>>
>>>
>>> Still open issue:
>>>
>>> What is the default setting for this game option?
>>>
>>> My current understanding from the rules set (2nd version DE and EN)
>>> available to me is that the default is that Prussian stock price raises
>>> even if there are un-exchanged (reserved) shares in the bank.
>>>
>>> However both (experienced) players John and Volker prefer the reverse as
>>>
>>> default. It could be that the 1st version of the rules were different?
>>> However I cannot find those online. Maybe anyone of you can check those?
>>>
>>> Most likely I will forward the question to 18xx yahoo, if we cannot find
>>>
>>> a clear answer.
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/31/2015 11:57 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>>>> On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
>>>>> Hi Volker,
>>>>> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the
>>>>> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard",
>> but
>>>>> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else)
>>>>> has a different opinion on that matter?
>>>>>
>>>>> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
>>>>>
>>>>> English (2nd):
>>>>> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a
>>>>> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool,
>>>>> then the share price...".
>>>>>
>>>>> German (2nd):
>>>>> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb
>>>>> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte
>>>>> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
>>>>>
>>>>> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the
>>>>> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for
>> a
>>>>> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good
>>>>> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stefan
>>>> I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
>>>> up and prefer it that way.
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Another update:

I found another bug related to PR price raise.

PR  stock price could raise if all 4 PR share (options) were sold, 
however M2 was yet not exchanged into the PR director.

There was no "real" game effect, as the market price was reset to 154 as 
soon as M2 was exchanged, however on the stock chart a "zombie" PR token 
was shown as left over.

The current implementation should now be equivalent to:

PR share price can raise if
* PR has a director (M2 exchanged)
* No share is in the Bank IPO or Pool.

I keep that as the sole implementation as it seems that most agree that 
this is the "default" interpretation.

Stefan


On 08/17/2015 07:13 PM, Stefan Frey wrote:
> Martin:
> seems to be another mis-understanding, but good to be clear about it.
>
> I was always talking about the second scenario (PR operating, all 4 10%
> shares sold, but not all minors/privates exchanged). The test file from
> Volker bug report was for this scenario.
>
> The first (PR not operating, thus none of the minors/privates exchanged,
> but all 4 10% shares sold) is clearly ruled in the German second edition
> rules => PR cannot raise, as it is non-operating.
>
> German second edition (2.6.3.4):
> "... einer im Betrieb befindlichen..."
>
> Unfortunately there is no equivalent in the English second edition of
> the rules. One has to keep in mind, that the English second rules
> edition is still based on the German first edition.
>
> Stefan
>
> 1835 is the equivalent to "Doppelkopf" of 18xx. ;-)
>
>
> On 08/17/2015 06:27 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> let me step in there again.
>>
>> We do have to make a difference in time/game phase.
>>
>> Previously the game didnt raise the prie of the prussian if the new
>> shares had been sold out because there were still the reserved ones that
>> couldnt be exchanged at that time.
>>
>> I do agree that once the prussian gets active and the minors may be
>> exchanged that this is an entire different scenario, which i dont really
>> want to judge. I think that the share price should rise cause
>> technically all shares are in play (even some as minors or privates) but
>> i can see the merit in the statement below.
>> My intention with the option was to fix the first (flawed in my opinion)
>> behaviour though.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
>> Am 17.08.15 um 16:44 schrieb com...@ip...:
>>> I've posed the question to a friend who has a copy of the game. My memory
>>> is that the rules aren't clear on the subject, but that our interpretation
>>> has always been that since the owners of the private companies that have
>>> not merged with the Prussian have had the chance to do so and not exercised
>>> that option, it is not considered to be fully subscribed. I will post his
>>> reply when I receive it.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>>>> 	<rai...@li...>
>>>> From: Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>>>> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:57:43 +0200
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 Shareprice of Pru at the End of an SR
>>>> Reply-To: "Development list for Rails: an 18xx game"
>>>> 	<rai...@li...>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still open issue:
>>>>
>>>> What is the default setting for this game option?
>>>>
>>>> My current understanding from the rules set (2nd version DE and EN)
>>>> available to me is that the default is that Prussian stock price raises
>>>> even if there are un-exchanged (reserved) shares in the bank.
>>>>
>>>> However both (experienced) players John and Volker prefer the reverse as
>>>>
>>>> default. It could be that the 1st version of the rules were different?
>>>> However I cannot find those online. Maybe anyone of you can check those?
>>>>
>>>> Most likely I will forward the question to 18xx yahoo, if we cannot find
>>>>
>>>> a clear answer.
>>>>
>>>> Stefan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 07/31/2015 11:57 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>>>>> On 2015-07-30 10:30, Stefan Frey wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Volker,
>>>>>> thanks for your reply: Yes Rails previously did not increase the
>>>>>> Prussian share price, however in my view this is not the "standard",
>>> but
>>>>>> simply a bug. However I am interested to know, if you (or anyone else)
>>>>>> has a different opinion on that matter?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least for the two rules set I consulted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> English (2nd):
>>>>>> "If at the end of a share dealing round, all purchasable shares in a
>>>>>> company are owned by players, i.e. all sold and none in the Bank Pool,
>>>>>> then the share price...".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> German (2nd):
>>>>>> "Befinden sich am Ende einer Aktienrunde keine Aktien einer in Betrieb
>>>>>> befindlichen AG im Bankpool bzw. auf einem der Stapel 'Nichtverkaufte
>>>>>> Aktien', so wird der Kursmarker ..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main difference is merely that the German highlights that the
>>>>>> company has to be operating, thus Prussian requires an exchanged M2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am a little reluctant to support too many (minor) Game Options for
>>> a
>>>>>> game with enough variants and ambiguous rules, but if there is good
>>>>>> support to convince me then I will be happy to add the option again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>> I guess I have the first edition, but I am used to the price NOT going
>>>>> up and prefer it that way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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