rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

Re: [Rails-devel] An ongoing rails issue

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Are other people experiencing the same problem?

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 1:50 AM, Mike Bourke <com...@ip...>wrote:

> This is not a bug per se, but it's something that needs to be mentioned,
> and
> even improved or resolved before rails can be offered as fully functional
> to
> the public.
>
> Rails 1.7.x becomes deadly slow towards the end of a game. In today's game,
> I clicked on "no token" for the second-last turn in the last op round and
> had to wait more than five minutes (closer to eight) before the game
> progressed to calculating the revenue for that particular company. 1835 is
> especially bad in this respect because of the potential for a company to
> have multiple diesels, and is almost unplayable as a result.
>
> Note that this problem occurs with ALL actions in an op round. A company
> starts its turn. Click on a hex on the map to indicate where you want to
> lay
> a tile, wait five-to-ten minutes. The available tiles are offered, click on
> one, wait 5-10 minutes. The tile is then laid, click on it to rotate it
> until correct facing is achieved - wait another 5-10 minutes before the
> first rotation takes effect. Click on "lay tile", wait another 5-10 minutes
> before the game progresses to tokens. Click on a tile to lay a token, wait
> for 5-10 minutes before the option to lay a token in that space is
> displayed. Click on the lay token button, or on the no token button, wait
> another 5-10 minutes before revenue calculations start. Wait up to an hour
> for revenue calculations to be complete (or wait at least 5-10 minutes for
> a
> value that's close if not equal to the final revenue valuation to be
> achieved) and click Set Revenue, wait 5-10 minutes before being given the
> option of how to distribute that revenue. Click one of the buttons and wait
> another 5-10 minutes for the option to buy trains (if applicable). And so
> on. Clicking on "game" on the game status window menu produces another wait
> of 5-10 minutes before the menu is displayed. Clicking save game produces a
> wait of 5-20 minutes before the save game window appears. Clicking save
> does
> nothing for another 5-10 minutes.
>
> All this appears to be due to the game consuming 100% available CPU and
> wanting more.
>
> It's understandable that as brown tiles becomes available and the variety
> and length of possible routes increases, it takes longer to determine the
> optimum route. Nevertheless, this all seems excessive, and should have no
> impact on actions like "save game".
>
> I have found that the problem can be reduced (not eliminated) temporarily
> by
> saving the game, closing rails, and then reopening it, so it appears in
> part
> to be a problem with the size of the log file (which is always smaller
> after
> doing so than it was), but this is not the whole issue by any means.
>
> My system is relatively slow by modern standards - only 2.65GHz -
> exacerbating the problem. In combination with the "loading a saved game"
> improvement mentioned a moment ago, I suspect that this is the reason no
> players have noticed / complained about the problem in past testing.
>
> To assess the true scale of the issue, would it be possible to include an
> option to turn logging off in the game setup panel for 1.7.6? I can
> understand why logging in general is both desirable and comprehensive while
> the game is still in a beta-testing mode, but I think this needs further
> investigation. SOMETHING is happening repeatedly in all those CPU cycles
> that bogs the whole game down to a slow crawl.
>
> I also have some thoughts on an alternative top-level process for handling
> revenue calculations but they *might* not yield any improvement (might even
> be worse) and have a wishlist for functionality enhancements, but they are
> unimportant in comparison to this issue.
>
> Mike Bourke
> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
> Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
>
>
>
>
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> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
>
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
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Re: [Rails-devel] An ongoing rails issue

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Mike,

I'm afraid this is the price you have to pay for having Rails think for you,
rather than doing the thinking yourself.
This refers to finding valid tile and token lays and routes, and calculating
revenue.  I don't believe logging is part of the issue.
AFAIK you can switch off all or part of this thinking, and perhaps more
fine-grained settings are needed.

In the past I have seen a lot of discussion about whether or not route
finding speed can be improved, so I don't expect many quick wins here.
For any improvements you'll be dependent on Stefan, and perhaps others, but
in any case I cannot help you: this subject is not in my skill set.

Erik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Bourke [mailto:com...@ip...]
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:51 AM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] An ongoing rails issue
> 
> This is not a bug per se, but it's something that needs to be mentioned,
and
> even improved or resolved before rails can be offered as fully functional
to
> the public.
> 
> Rails 1.7.x becomes deadly slow towards the end of a game. In today's
game,
> I clicked on "no token" for the second-last turn in the last op round and
had
> to wait more than five minutes (closer to eight) before the game
progressed
> to calculating the revenue for that particular company. 1835 is especially
bad
> in this respect because of the potential for a company to have multiple
> diesels, and is almost unplayable as a result.
> 
> Note that this problem occurs with ALL actions in an op round. A company
> starts its turn. Click on a hex on the map to indicate where you want to
lay a
> tile, wait five-to-ten minutes. The available tiles are offered, click on
one,
> wait 5-10 minutes. The tile is then laid, click on it to rotate it until
correct
> facing is achieved - wait another 5-10 minutes before the first rotation
takes
> effect. Click on "lay tile", wait another 5-10 minutes before the game
> progresses to tokens. Click on a tile to lay a token, wait for 5-10
minutes
> before the option to lay a token in that space is displayed. Click on the
lay
> token button, or on the no token button, wait another 5-10 minutes before
> revenue calculations start. Wait up to an hour for revenue calculations to
be
> complete (or wait at least 5-10 minutes for a value that's close if not
equal to
> the final revenue valuation to be
> achieved) and click Set Revenue, wait 5-10 minutes before being given the
> option of how to distribute that revenue. Click one of the buttons and
wait
> another 5-10 minutes for the option to buy trains (if applicable). And so
on.
> Clicking on "game" on the game status window menu produces another wait
> of 5-10 minutes before the menu is displayed. Clicking save game produces
a
> wait of 5-20 minutes before the save game window appears. Clicking save
> does nothing for another 5-10 minutes.
> 
> All this appears to be due to the game consuming 100% available CPU and
> wanting more.
> 
> It's understandable that as brown tiles becomes available and the variety
and
> length of possible routes increases, it takes longer to determine the
> optimum route. Nevertheless, this all seems excessive, and should have no
> impact on actions like "save game".
> 
> I have found that the problem can be reduced (not eliminated) temporarily
> by saving the game, closing rails, and then reopening it, so it appears in
part
> to be a problem with the size of the log file (which is always smaller
after
> doing so than it was), but this is not the whole issue by any means.
> 
> My system is relatively slow by modern standards - only 2.65GHz -
> exacerbating the problem. In combination with the "loading a saved game"
> improvement mentioned a moment ago, I suspect that this is the reason no
> players have noticed / complained about the problem in past testing.
> 
> To assess the true scale of the issue, would it be possible to include an
option
> to turn logging off in the game setup panel for 1.7.6? I can understand
why
> logging in general is both desirable and comprehensive while the game is
still
> in a beta-testing mode, but I think this needs further investigation.
> SOMETHING is happening repeatedly in all those CPU cycles that bogs the
> whole game down to a slow crawl.
> 
> I also have some thoughts on an alternative top-level process for handling
> revenue calculations but they *might* not yield any improvement (might
> even be worse) and have a wishlist for functionality enhancements, but
they
> are unimportant in comparison to this issue.
> 
> Mike Bourke
> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com Co-author, Assassin's
> Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
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> Virus Database (VPS): 120530-1, 31/05/2012 Tested on: 31/05/2012 6:50:43
> PM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2012 AVAST Software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

[Rails-devel] An ongoing rails issue

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

This is not a bug per se, but it's something that needs to be mentioned, and
even improved or resolved before rails can be offered as fully functional to
the public.

Rails 1.7.x becomes deadly slow towards the end of a game. In today's game,
I clicked on "no token" for the second-last turn in the last op round and
had to wait more than five minutes (closer to eight) before the game
progressed to calculating the revenue for that particular company. 1835 is
especially bad in this respect because of the potential for a company to
have multiple diesels, and is almost unplayable as a result.

Note that this problem occurs with ALL actions in an op round. A company
starts its turn. Click on a hex on the map to indicate where you want to lay
a tile, wait five-to-ten minutes. The available tiles are offered, click on
one, wait 5-10 minutes. The tile is then laid, click on it to rotate it
until correct facing is achieved - wait another 5-10 minutes before the
first rotation takes effect. Click on "lay tile", wait another 5-10 minutes
before the game progresses to tokens. Click on a tile to lay a token, wait
for 5-10 minutes before the option to lay a token in that space is
displayed. Click on the lay token button, or on the no token button, wait
another 5-10 minutes before revenue calculations start. Wait up to an hour
for revenue calculations to be complete (or wait at least 5-10 minutes for a
value that's close if not equal to the final revenue valuation to be
achieved) and click Set Revenue, wait 5-10 minutes before being given the
option of how to distribute that revenue. Click one of the buttons and wait
another 5-10 minutes for the option to buy trains (if applicable). And so
on. Clicking on "game" on the game status window menu produces another wait
of 5-10 minutes before the menu is displayed. Clicking save game produces a
wait of 5-20 minutes before the save game window appears. Clicking save does
nothing for another 5-10 minutes.

All this appears to be due to the game consuming 100% available CPU and
wanting more.

It's understandable that as brown tiles becomes available and the variety
and length of possible routes increases, it takes longer to determine the
optimum route. Nevertheless, this all seems excessive, and should have no
impact on actions like "save game".

I have found that the problem can be reduced (not eliminated) temporarily by
saving the game, closing rails, and then reopening it, so it appears in part
to be a problem with the size of the log file (which is always smaller after
doing so than it was), but this is not the whole issue by any means.

My system is relatively slow by modern standards - only 2.65GHz -
exacerbating the problem. In combination with the "loading a saved game"
improvement mentioned a moment ago, I suspect that this is the reason no
players have noticed / complained about the problem in past testing.

To assess the true scale of the issue, would it be possible to include an
option to turn logging off in the game setup panel for 1.7.6? I can
understand why logging in general is both desirable and comprehensive while
the game is still in a beta-testing mode, but I think this needs further
investigation. SOMETHING is happening repeatedly in all those CPU cycles
that bogs the whole game down to a slow crawl.

I also have some thoughts on an alternative top-level process for handling
revenue calculations but they *might* not yield any improvement (might even
be worse) and have a wishlist for functionality enhancements, but they are
unimportant in comparison to this issue.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com




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Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports18TN Rails 1.7.3)

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

Appears to be completely fixed, according to my testing. I think this can be
considered resolved until proven otherwise.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bourke [mailto:com...@ip...] 
Sent: Wednesday, 30 May 2012 11:41 PM
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug
Reports18TN Rails 1.7.3)

I have generated a save file for the appropriate moment in an 18EU game. Is
this fix part of the new 1.7.5 version? If so, I'll check it out and report
back.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...] 
Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 8:07 PM
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports
18TN Rails 1.7.3)

Follow-up on the display station issues:
I have fixed the general issue that the display of tokens was not 
updated after undo/redo of actions. (Typical move related bug in the 
rails1.x branch).

Could someone either verify (using the rails1.7.x branch) that this also 
fixes the bug below and/or provide a save file that allows to test the 
case (if not, for further investigation).
Stefan


On 05/20/2012 08:58 PM, John David Galt wrote:
> On 2012-05-20 08:29, Mike Bourke wrote:
>> Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
>> vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
>> function as a rail head?
>
> Investigating these questions has produced interesting results.
>
> Q1: Yes and no.  Performing a "save game" and then "load game" at a point
after
> the minor companies have merged shows the same map as before.  (Turning
the
> "map" option off, then on in the menu-bar of the Game Status window
similarly
> does not change the map shown.)  However, if you exit completely out of
Rails,
> restart the program, and THEN reload the saved game, the leftover stations
go
> away.  Clearly then, this bug has to do with the GUI engine being
unwilling to
> generate a new map window unless it is aware the contents have changed.
>
> Q2: I don't yet know the answer to this one.
>
> In trying to answer Q2 I discovered another bug.  The Final Minor Company
> Exchange Round in this game ended with all players holding more than 60%
of at
> least one major company (which must then be sold in the ensuing stock
turn).
> Rather than do that right away, I saved the game as soon as the Exchange
Round
> was finished and it's the first player's stock turn.  Result: "Load game"
hangs!
> The progress indicator gets to 92% and stops there, and I had to stop
Rails from
> Windows Task Manager.
>
>
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[Rails-devel] SVG unleashed book

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

All:
recently I received a second (used) copy of "SVG unleashed" (Watt et.al 
2003, SAMS) from an US distributor, as my first copy was lost for more 
than half a year during shipping.

If anyone is interested to get this copy for free? If someone intends to 
use it to work on Rails, I will sponsor the shipping costs, if they are 
not unreasonable high (so do not expect fast insured shipping to a 
remote place).
Stefan

Re: [Rails-devel] Mine svg tiles for 1837 (was: A question or two about the Rails XML interface.)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Erik:
I have attached a template for 37001 tile that allows to edit and modify 
the position of the mine symbol easily:

Simply modify the tile in a text editor and then check the changes by 
reloading in a graphic/browser program.

The mining symbol is a svg of its own and included as a group into the
tile. Then you can adjust the defined transformations like translate, 
rotate and scale (Every operation uses the left upper corner as reference).

<g transform="translate(195,190)rotate(45)scale(0.15)">

You can also replace the mining symbol by one you like better by simply 
replacing the svg code inside the g element.
See other file versions here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mining_symbol.svg

Stefan


On 05/15/2012 01:17 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> Modifying existing TileDesigner-created tiles works best.  Please remember:
>
> # Notes on creating new tiles:
> (...)
> # 3. If tiles are modified with Inkscape, before saving, set the following
> properties
> #    via File|DocumentProperties:
> #    - First press 'Fit page to selection'. This should change the size to
> #      Width=393.00 and Height=341.00.
> #    - To add the extra whitespace below the tile image that TileDesigner
> also adds
> #      (for unknown reasons), change the Height to 357.50.
> #    - Then save the tile.
>
> Erik.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:34 PM
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] A question or two about the Rails XML
> interface.
>>
>> Converting from bitmap to a vector graphic unfortunately hardly exceeds,
>> however for simple graphs (like our tiles) there should be working
>> algorithms.
>>
>> I prefer creating a SVG in two ways:
>> A) Edit the SVG file directly. Actually the tile designer svg files are
> not that
>> difficult to understand after one adds newlines to separate the XML
>> elements.
>> B) Use Inkscape which is an opensource vector graphics program which uses
>> SVG.
>> Most often I combine A) and B).
>>
>> I can create the mine tiles if you like, but be warned I am not an artist
> at all.
>> I would simply paste the mine symbol from wikipedia
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Mining_symbol.svg
>> onto the tiles.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>> On 05/13/2012 12:56 AM, Erik Vos wrote:
>>> Is anyone able to convert .gif to .svg?
>>> See below for some requirements that include the required SVG size
>>> (copied from CombineTiles.pl as mentioned in my previous reply).
>>>
>>> Once that has been done, we can use the .svg equivalents in the
> displays.
>>> Internally we still need standard TileDesigner equivalents, for which
>>> we can use existing standard off-map city or town tiles (or perhaps we
>>> need new ones, with stop type "mine" or such).
>>>
>>> # Notes on creating new tiles:
>>> # 1. In TileDesigner, export SVG tiles with size=170 and filename
>>> template=tile<c0>.
>>> #    Do this with ID checked into directory tiles/TDwithID, and again
>>> #    with ID unchecked into directory tiles/TDwoID.
>>> # 2. If the saved tiles turn out to invisible, use program
>>> FixInvisibility.pl
>>> #    to remove superfluous strings ' xmlns=""'. It is unknown why
>>> TileDesigner
>>> #    sometimes includes this string in the path tags.
>>> # 3. If tiles are modified with Inkscape, before saving, set the
>>> following properties
>>> #    via File|DocumentProperties:
>>> #    - First press 'Fit page to selection'. This should change the size
> to
>>> #      Width=393.00 and Height=341.00.
>>> #    - To add the extra whitespace below the tile image that
> TileDesigner
>>> also adds
>>> #      (for unknown reasons), change the Height to 357.50.
>>> #    - Then save the tile.
>>> # 4. Use this program to combine tiles from the following directories
>>> into
>>> tiles/svg:
>>> #    - From tiles/TDwithID: all tiles with an ID>   0 (not preprinted
> tiles).
>>> #      These images have the id on the tile.
>>> #    - From tiles/TDwoID: all tiles with an ID<= 0 (preprinted tiles).
>>> #      These images do not have the ID on the tile (create these
> separately
>>> from TD).
>>> #    - From tiles/handmade: all tiles in that dir will overwrite any of
> the
>>> above.
>>> #      These are the tiles modified by hand or with Inkscape.
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:14 AM
>>>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>>>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] A question or two about the Rails XML
>>> interface.
>>>>
>>>> Here are the three "mine tiles", in the two sizes of .gif that
>>>> 18xx.net
>>> uses.
>>>> I've left off the names and the values for the "offboard run" in the
>>>> hope
>>> that
>>>> Rails can generate those dynamically.
>>>>
>>>> If some other format would work better, I'll see if I can create it.
>>>> Let
>>> me
>>>> know.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------
>>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
>>> Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
>>> latest in malware threats.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Rai...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
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>
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports 18TN Rails 1.7.3)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

yes included

On 05/30/2012 03:41 PM, Mike Bourke wrote:
> I have generated a save file for the appropriate moment in an 18EU game. Is
> this fix part of the new 1.7.5 version? If so, I'll check it out and report
> back.
>
> Mike Bourke
> Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
> Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 8:07 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports
> 18TN Rails 1.7.3)
>
> Follow-up on the display station issues:
> I have fixed the general issue that the display of tokens was not
> updated after undo/redo of actions. (Typical move related bug in the
> rails1.x branch).
>
> Could someone either verify (using the rails1.7.x branch) that this also
> fixes the bug below and/or provide a save file that allows to test the
> case (if not, for further investigation).
> Stefan
>
>
> On 05/20/2012 08:58 PM, John David Galt wrote:
>> On 2012-05-20 08:29, Mike Bourke wrote:
>>> Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
>>> vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
>>> function as a rail head?
>>
>> Investigating these questions has produced interesting results.
>>
>> Q1: Yes and no.  Performing a "save game" and then "load game" at a point
> after
>> the minor companies have merged shows the same map as before.  (Turning
> the
>> "map" option off, then on in the menu-bar of the Game Status window
> similarly
>> does not change the map shown.)  However, if you exit completely out of
> Rails,
>> restart the program, and THEN reload the saved game, the leftover stations
> go
>> away.  Clearly then, this bug has to do with the GUI engine being
> unwilling to
>> generate a new map window unless it is aware the contents have changed.
>>
>> Q2: I don't yet know the answer to this one.
>>
>> In trying to answer Q2 I discovered another bug.  The Final Minor Company
>> Exchange Round in this game ended with all players holding more than 60%
> of at
>> least one major company (which must then be sold in the ensuing stock
> turn).
>> Rather than do that right away, I saved the game as soon as the Exchange
> Round
>> was finished and it's the first player's stock turn.  Result: "Load game"
> hangs!
>> The progress indicator gets to 92% and stops there, and I had to stop
> Rails from
>> Windows Task Manager.
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
>
> ---
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports 18TN Rails 1.7.3)

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

I have generated a save file for the appropriate moment in an 18EU game. Is
this fix part of the new 1.7.5 version? If so, I'll check it out and report
back.

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...] 
Sent: Tuesday, 29 May 2012 8:07 PM
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports
18TN Rails 1.7.3)

Follow-up on the display station issues:
I have fixed the general issue that the display of tokens was not 
updated after undo/redo of actions. (Typical move related bug in the 
rails1.x branch).

Could someone either verify (using the rails1.7.x branch) that this also 
fixes the bug below and/or provide a save file that allows to test the 
case (if not, for further investigation).
Stefan


On 05/20/2012 08:58 PM, John David Galt wrote:
> On 2012-05-20 08:29, Mike Bourke wrote:
>> Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
>> vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
>> function as a rail head?
>
> Investigating these questions has produced interesting results.
>
> Q1: Yes and no.  Performing a "save game" and then "load game" at a point
after
> the minor companies have merged shows the same map as before.  (Turning
the
> "map" option off, then on in the menu-bar of the Game Status window
similarly
> does not change the map shown.)  However, if you exit completely out of
Rails,
> restart the program, and THEN reload the saved game, the leftover stations
go
> away.  Clearly then, this bug has to do with the GUI engine being
unwilling to
> generate a new map window unless it is aware the contents have changed.
>
> Q2: I don't yet know the answer to this one.
>
> In trying to answer Q2 I discovered another bug.  The Final Minor Company
> Exchange Round in this game ended with all players holding more than 60%
of at
> least one major company (which must then be sold in the ensuing stock
turn).
> Rather than do that right away, I saved the game as soon as the Exchange
Round
> was finished and it's the first player's stock turn.  Result: "Load game"
hangs!
> The progress indicator gets to 92% and stops there, and I had to stop
Rails from
> Windows Task Manager.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
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[Rails-devel] 1856 alternate destinations variant

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

In the recent 1.7.5 release I have added support for 1856 variants
(see recent feature request).

However for alternate destinations there are two cases which are not
covered by the current xml format, which allows only one hex for a 
destination:

* TGB connects to West Canada which is a multihex offboard area.
* CA connects a non-home hex to another non-home hex (London -> Detroit).

This is not a major issue, as the destination hexes are only used
for display and there is no full automation yet, however this has to be
addressed at some point.

Stefan

[Rails-devel] Release Rails 1.7.5 available

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

A new maintenance release for Rails 1.x series

Downloads are available at http://rails.sourceforge.net/ or by the
direct link http://sourceforge.net/projects/rails/files/Rails/1.7.5/

Contributors: Erik Vos, Stefan Frey

Bugs reported by John David Galt, Mike Bourke, Phil Davies

New:
1856: Alternate Trains variant added
1856: Alternate Destinations variant added (not fully implemented yet)

List of bugs fixed:
Phase extra info is reported in report window (e.g. Civil War in 18TN)
Tokens on map are updated after undo/redo
Fixed non-modal dialog bug during loading game
1835: preventing selling double non-president shares in parts.
1835: fixed 1835 hex distance calculation bug

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports 18TN Rails 1.7.3)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Follow-up on the display station issues:
I have fixed the general issue that the display of tokens was not 
updated after undo/redo of actions. (Typical move related bug in the 
rails1.x branch).

Could someone either verify (using the rails1.7.x branch) that this also 
fixes the bug below and/or provide a save file that allows to test the 
case (if not, for further investigation).
Stefan


On 05/20/2012 08:58 PM, John David Galt wrote:
> On 2012-05-20 08:29, Mike Bourke wrote:
>> Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
>> vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
>> function as a rail head?
>
> Investigating these questions has produced interesting results.
>
> Q1: Yes and no.  Performing a "save game" and then "load game" at a point after
> the minor companies have merged shows the same map as before.  (Turning the
> "map" option off, then on in the menu-bar of the Game Status window similarly
> does not change the map shown.)  However, if you exit completely out of Rails,
> restart the program, and THEN reload the saved game, the leftover stations go
> away.  Clearly then, this bug has to do with the GUI engine being unwilling to
> generate a new map window unless it is aware the contents have changed.
>
> Q2: I don't yet know the answer to this one.
>
> In trying to answer Q2 I discovered another bug.  The Final Minor Company
> Exchange Round in this game ended with all players holding more than 60% of at
> least one major company (which must then be sold in the ensuing stock turn).
> Rather than do that right away, I saved the game as soon as the Exchange Round
> was finished and it's the first player's stock turn.  Result: "Load game" hangs!
> The progress indicator gets to 92% and stops there, and I had to stop Rails from
> Windows Task Manager.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert limit

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Yes, but I haven't yet started to look at it.
Erik. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 3:39 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over
cert
> limit
> 
> Erik:
> does this old stuff include the token issue?
> Stefan

Re: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert limit

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

Excellent, I was hoping it would be an easy one!

On 28 May 2012 14:35, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> Fixed.
>
> The program crashed because of an uncatched exception: the dialog with the
> cert limit warning was trying to center over a window that was not visible.
> Non-modal dialogs will now always make their "parent" visible before
> centering over it.
>
> @Stefan, I think you can go ahead.  I have some older stuff to work on, but
> the problem is that I never know what amount of time it's going to take...
>
> Erik.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...]
>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 1:09 PM
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert
> limit
>>
>> Hey, try and load this save file.  On 1.7.4 it gets to the stage where it
> says
>> 'initializing' after it has given the warning that player Chris is over
> cert limit
>> and it just sits there for ages, never finishing the load.  The workaround
> is to
>> load an earlier save and manually play through all moves until every
> player is
>> within certifcate limit.
>>
>> Phil
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert limit

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Erik:
does this old stuff include the token issue?
Stefan

On 05/28/2012 03:35 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> Fixed.
>
> The program crashed because of an uncatched exception: the dialog with the
> cert limit warning was trying to center over a window that was not visible.
> Non-modal dialogs will now always make their "parent" visible before
> centering over it.
>
> @Stefan, I think you can go ahead.  I have some older stuff to work on, but
> the problem is that I never know what amount of time it's going to take...
>
> Erik.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...]
>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 1:09 PM
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert
> limit
>>
>> Hey, try and load this save file.  On 1.7.4 it gets to the stage where it
> says
>> 'initializing' after it has given the warning that player Chris is over
> cert limit
>> and it just sits there for ages, never finishing the load.  The workaround
> is to
>> load an earlier save and manually play through all moves until every
> player is
>> within certifcate limit.
>>
>> Phil
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert limit

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Fixed.  

The program crashed because of an uncatched exception: the dialog with the
cert limit warning was trying to center over a window that was not visible.
Non-modal dialogs will now always make their "parent" visible before
centering over it.

@Stefan, I think you can go ahead.  I have some older stuff to work on, but
the problem is that I never know what amount of time it's going to take...

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...]
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 1:09 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert
limit
> 
> Hey, try and load this save file.  On 1.7.4 it gets to the stage where it
says
> 'initializing' after it has given the warning that player Chris is over
cert limit
> and it just sits there for ages, never finishing the load.  The workaround
is to
> load an earlier save and manually play through all moves until every
player is
> within certifcate limit.
> 
> Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I'm going to look at a new bug report from Phil Davies, so perhaps it's
worthwhile to wait a little bit longer.

Erik.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 3:10 PM
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)
> 
> Erik:
> do you expect to commit more fixes today or tomorrow?
> Otherwise I take this fix and the previous others and release 1.7.5 soon.
> Stefan
> 
> On 05/28/2012 01:06 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> > I suspect the reason is, that the hex pairs C13/D12 and E13/F12 are
> > not considered "neighbours" in the sense that no track can ever be
> > laid across their common edges.
> > For simplicity (or laziness) reasons, I had used this same "neighbour"
> > concept to find neighbours for the purpose of hex distance
> > calculation, but apparently I had completely overlooked that
impassability
> aspect.
> >
> > The fix is to obtain the neighbouring hexes in a more direct way,
> > ignoring impassabilities.  The cost is now calculated as the correct
140M.
> >
> > However, to deal with the 1835 "crow without a passport" aspect, all
> > hexes used in the calculation must still be non-null.
> > Should other games have hex distance calculation rules that do not
> > ignore null hexes, then we have another problem...
> >
> > Erik
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 11:50 PM
> >> To: rai...@li...
> >> Subject: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)
> >>
> >> At the point of this save file, MS just laid a token in Frankfurt (7
> >> hexes
> > away
> >> from its home) but was charged 160.I suspect t
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> > Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> > latest in malware threats.
> > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat
> landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will
> include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
threats.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Erik:
do you expect to commit more fixes today or tomorrow?
Otherwise I take this fix and the previous others and release 1.7.5 soon.
Stefan

On 05/28/2012 01:06 PM, Erik Vos wrote:
> I suspect the reason is, that the hex pairs C13/D12 and E13/F12 are not
> considered "neighbours" in the sense that no track can ever be laid across
> their common edges.
> For simplicity (or laziness) reasons, I had used this same "neighbour"
> concept to find neighbours for the purpose of hex distance calculation, but
> apparently I had completely overlooked that impassability aspect.
>
> The fix is to obtain the neighbouring hexes in a more direct way, ignoring
> impassabilities.  The cost is now calculated as the correct 140M.
>
> However, to deal with the 1835 "crow without a passport" aspect, all hexes
> used in the calculation must still be non-null.
> Should other games have hex distance calculation rules that do not ignore
> null hexes, then we have another problem...
>
> Erik
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 11:50 PM
>> To: rai...@li...
>> Subject: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)
>>
>> At the point of this save file, MS just laid a token in Frankfurt (7 hexes
> away
>> from its home) but was charged 160.I suspect t
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

[Rails-devel] BUG: Game won't load if the next user is over cert limit

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

Hey, try and load this save file.  On 1.7.4 it gets to the stage where
it says 'initializing' after it has given the warning that player
Chris is over cert limit and it just sits there for ages, never
finishing the load.  The workaround is to load an earlier save and
manually play through all moves until every player is within
certifcate limit.

Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I suspect the reason is, that the hex pairs C13/D12 and E13/F12 are not
considered "neighbours" in the sense that no track can ever be laid across
their common edges.
For simplicity (or laziness) reasons, I had used this same "neighbour"
concept to find neighbours for the purpose of hex distance calculation, but
apparently I had completely overlooked that impassability aspect.

The fix is to obtain the neighbouring hexes in a more direct way, ignoring
impassabilities.  The cost is now calculated as the correct 140M.

However, to deal with the 1835 "crow without a passport" aspect, all hexes
used in the calculation must still be non-null.
Should other games have hex distance calculation rules that do not ignore
null hexes, then we have another problem...

Erik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 11:50 PM
> To: rai...@li...
> Subject: [Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)
> 
> At the point of this save file, MS just laid a token in Frankfurt (7 hexes
away
> from its home) but was charged 160.I suspect t

[Rails-devel] A subtle 1835 bug (1.7.4)

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

At the point of this save file, MS just laid a token in Frankfurt (7 hexes away
from its home) but was charged 160.

[Rails-devel] Updated rails 2.0 branch

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

All:
Recently I spend a little more time on Rails2.0 and was able to finally
reach the milestone that all compiler errors are fixed (was over 700 at 
peak time) and the only remaining warnings are deprecated methods.

However it is still some way to go until Rails2.0 will support playing 
18xx again: As I changed the core parts of Rails (state, models and 
portfolios) I will make the way back from the core to the outer layers 
of Rails: This will be supported by adding unit tests to the new 
packages first (state and model).

For my own reference I created some documentation and I intent to 
transfer that to the wiki for reference for other (future) developers.

It took longer than expected (not a real surprise), but this was mainly 
due to my restricted time budget and not to real issues arising.
I still expect it being worth the wait, as I came across several hidden 
flaws that will always hinder full undo compatibility of Rails1.x.
All of this is mainly due to the fact that the state mechanism was
added at a later stage and not due to lazy development in first place.

My current estimate will be that I expect that start of first real tests 
of Rails2.0 in around a month or so.

Stefan

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports 18TN Rails 1.7.3)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Unfortunately I have no time until tomorrow to look into this. Maybe it 
is better to get Erik opinion on this, he knows the 18EU merger mechanism.

However I noticed recently that in general layed tokens get not removed 
on undo (or going back in report history which is in fact the same 
action). They only get removed if the tile changes on which they got 
laid. Most likely that is a related issue.

And one should keep in mind that Frederick changed the UI mechanism of 
the token display, so one should look into that.

Will wait with 1.7.5 until I have time to look into that.

Stefan


On 05/20/2012 08:58 PM, John David Galt wrote:
> On 2012-05-20 08:29, Mike Bourke wrote:
>> Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
>> vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
>> function as a rail head?
>
> Investigating these questions has produced interesting results.
>
> Q1: Yes and no.  Performing a "save game" and then "load game" at a point after
> the minor companies have merged shows the same map as before.  (Turning the
> "map" option off, then on in the menu-bar of the Game Status window similarly
> does not change the map shown.)  However, if you exit completely out of Rails,
> restart the program, and THEN reload the saved game, the leftover stations go
> away.  Clearly then, this bug has to do with the GUI engine being unwilling to
> generate a new map window unless it is aware the contents have changed.
>
> Q2: I don't yet know the answer to this one.
>
> In trying to answer Q2 I discovered another bug.  The Final Minor Company
> Exchange Round in this game ended with all players holding more than 60% of at
> least one major company (which must then be sold in the ensuing stock turn).
> Rather than do that right away, I saved the game as soon as the Exchange Round
> was finished and it's the first player's stock turn.  Result: "Load game" hangs!
> The progress indicator gets to 92% and stops there, and I had to stop Rails from
> Windows Task Manager.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports 18TNRails 1.7.3)

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

Interesting results, indeed. I had hoped that the answers would clarify
whether or not it was a display flag that wasn't being reset or something
more substantial. The answers don't appear to have clarified the situation,
but at least a new bug has been identified as a result!

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com



---
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Tested on: 21/05/2012 9:14:43 AM
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[Rails-devel] 18EU leftover stations bug (was 2x Bug Reports 18TN Rails 1.7.3)

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2012-05-20 08:29, Mike Bourke wrote:
> Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
> vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
> function as a rail head?

Investigating these questions has produced interesting results.

Q1: Yes and no.  Performing a "save game" and then "load game" at a point after
the minor companies have merged shows the same map as before.  (Turning the
"map" option off, then on in the menu-bar of the Game Status window similarly
does not change the map shown.)  However, if you exit completely out of Rails,
restart the program, and THEN reload the saved game, the leftover stations go
away.  Clearly then, this bug has to do with the GUI engine being unwilling to
generate a new map window unless it is aware the contents have changed.

Q2: I don't yet know the answer to this one.

In trying to answer Q2 I discovered another bug.  The Final Minor Company
Exchange Round in this game ended with all players holding more than 60% of at
least one major company (which must then be sold in the ensuing stock turn).
Rather than do that right away, I saved the game as soon as the Exchange Round
was finished and it's the first player's stock turn.  Result: "Load game" hangs!
The progress indicator gets to 92% and stops there, and I had to stop Rails from
Windows Task Manager.

Re: [Rails-devel] 2x Bug Reports 18TN Rails 1.7.3

[Mike B. <com...@ip...>]

Question1: If you save the game and then reload it, do these leftovers
vanish? Question2: Do they interfere with other operating runs i.e. still
function as a rail head?

Mike Bourke
Campaign Mastery http://www.campaignmastery.com
Co-author, Assassin's Amulet http://www.legaciescampaignsetting.com



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