rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Brett L. <wak...@gm...>]

On Fri, 2008-10-24 at 21:53 +0200, Erik Vos wrote:
> > > I do have a different Tile Definition layout, and it would 
> > probably be
> > > best to determine how best to integrate them together.
>  
> One missing item in Map.xml is the hex name (like A1, B2 etc). 
> Hex names are indipensible in PBEM play, and anyway generally useful 
> in discussing games.
> 
> > Well, let's dig into it then. In my mind, the most important question
> > is, how do you add new tiles?
> > 
> > The current, rather convoluted, process is to create a new tile with
> > Tile Designer, export the postscript file, convert it to SVG and GIF,
> > then hand-tweak the SVG and GIF files. Obviously this is sub-optimal,
> > but the tile set changes relatively infrequently, so I've 
> > just accepted
> > the inefficiencies.
> 
> In addition, I export the XML definitions from TileDesigner and let class 
> rails.util.convertTilesXML convert these to the format used in Tiles.xml.
> The converted format is meant to support future route checking and revenue 
> calculation (but nothing of that has happened yet).
>  
> > If it's relatively easy to create new tiles in your format, I'm not
> > opposed to ripping out the current tile sub-system entirely.
> 
> Or merge the two. The differences are actually not that large. 
> 
> > > Revenue Centers can be towns (whistlestops or
> > > small city), or Large Cities (single, double, triple, quad). 
> 
> One more minor quibble from my side: 
> You use the term "RevenueCenter" where we now have "Station". 
> ("Junction" might be another option, although perhaps confusing
> with respect to point tiles like #23-#31.)
> My point is that there are junctions/stations/revenuecenters 
> that do not generate revenue, such as the 1841 passes and tunnels 
> (but these *do* count against the train length and can be tokened, 
> so they might as well be considered 0-revenue Cities). I admit 
> that Station might also be confusing as this term is also used for base
> tokens.
> 
> In 1860 we also have halts, and in 1854 medium cities.
> 

Naming conventions aside, I think there are (at least) two conceptual
directions to choose from:

A) There's a single object, call it a "location", that has various
potential attributes such as "revenue" and "counts as a stop". When we
need a new feature, we'd just add another attribute or find a clever use
for our existing attributes (e.g. revenue="0").

B) We have a hierarchy of objects. Starting with a basic "location" that
has a minimum set of basic attributes, and building up specific
sub-classes of objects for specific purposes and use-cases.

I personally don't know enough of the 18xx differences to know which
approach would be more maintainable over the long-term. I'll let you
guys weigh in on that. ;-)


> > I believe 18EU has new tiles. 18KAAS is just 1830 with a new map.
> 
> 18Kaas also has new tiles (B+ = B with 2 token slotes, and U).
> 
> > > The 1835
> > > Hamburg Tile with the tunnel is something I have not quite resolve how
> > > to draw properly yet.
> 
> It's actually a ferry.
> TileDesigner can't handle this one either. I doubt if any XML can define
> this one in a generic way without becoming overly complicated. For token
> placement and revenue calculation we might need to resort to special code 
> in an 1835-specific class. For drawing, I don't know...
> 

I don't know the rules around this tile. Can one of you give a
description of the game mechanics around this tile?


> Erik.

---Brett.

There's something different about us -- different from people of Europe,
Africa, Asia ... a deep and abiding belief in the Easter Bunny.
		-- G. Gordon Liddy

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

> > I do have a different Tile Definition layout, and it would 
> probably be
> > best to determine how best to integrate them together.
 
One missing item in Map.xml is the hex name (like A1, B2 etc). 
Hex names are indipensible in PBEM play, and anyway generally useful 
in discussing games.

> Well, let's dig into it then. In my mind, the most important question
> is, how do you add new tiles?
> 
> The current, rather convoluted, process is to create a new tile with
> Tile Designer, export the postscript file, convert it to SVG and GIF,
> then hand-tweak the SVG and GIF files. Obviously this is sub-optimal,
> but the tile set changes relatively infrequently, so I've 
> just accepted
> the inefficiencies.

In addition, I export the XML definitions from TileDesigner and let class 
rails.util.convertTilesXML convert these to the format used in Tiles.xml.
The converted format is meant to support future route checking and revenue 
calculation (but nothing of that has happened yet).
 
> If it's relatively easy to create new tiles in your format, I'm not
> opposed to ripping out the current tile sub-system entirely.

Or merge the two. The differences are actually not that large. 

> > Revenue Centers can be towns (whistlestops or
> > small city), or Large Cities (single, double, triple, quad). 

One more minor quibble from my side: 
You use the term "RevenueCenter" where we now have "Station". 
("Junction" might be another option, although perhaps confusing
with respect to point tiles like #23-#31.)
My point is that there are junctions/stations/revenuecenters 
that do not generate revenue, such as the 1841 passes and tunnels 
(but these *do* count against the train length and can be tokened, 
so they might as well be considered 0-revenue Cities). I admit 
that Station might also be confusing as this term is also used for base
tokens.

In 1860 we also have halts, and in 1854 medium cities.

> I believe 18EU has new tiles. 18KAAS is just 1830 with a new map.

18Kaas also has new tiles (B+ = B with 2 token slotes, and U).

> > The 1835
> > Hamburg Tile with the tunnel is something I have not quite resolve how
> > to draw properly yet.

It's actually a ferry.
TileDesigner can't handle this one either. I doubt if any XML can define
this one in a generic way without becoming overly complicated. For token
placement and revenue calculation we might need to resort to special code 
in an 1835-specific class. For drawing, I don't know...

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Brett L. <wak...@gm...>]

On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 19:21 -0500, Mark Smith wrote:
> 
>         
>         
>         Well, let's dig into it then. In my mind, the most important
>         question
>         is, how do you add new tiles?
>         
>         The current, rather convoluted, process is to create a new
>         tile with
>         Tile Designer, export the postscript file, convert it to SVG
>         and GIF,
>         then hand-tweak the SVG and GIF files. Obviously this is
>         sub-optimal,
>         but the tile set changes relatively infrequently, so I've just
>         accepted
>         the inefficiencies.
>         
>         If it's relatively easy to create new tiles in your format,
>         I'm not
>         opposed to ripping out the current tile sub-system entirely.
>         
>         
> 
> 
> The current way I create Tiles is I create the tile definitions is by
> hand. I laid out various points around the tile (center of each edge,
> points in the hex that are near a side, near a corner, far from side,
> far from corner, etc... and the center. Each of the Features of the
> tiles live either at one of these points, or extending across two
> points (like track segments). A Feature is like a Port, a Revenue
> Center (City or Town), a Terrain Feature, etc. Privates are a
> two-point feature to draw the "track" segment for them.  Revenue
> values are a feature, Names are a Feature... Basically just about
> anything that needs to be drawn on the hex/tile is a feature. One
> exception is the Blocked Hexsides, which is a feature of each hex (max
> 6) that is drawn AFTER any tile is drawn so that it overlaps the drawn
> tile. The hexes that allow only a Green Tile to be placed initially,
> is drawn as either a solid yellow hex (like 1835) or a Thick Yellow
> Frame (like 1830/1856). Revenue Centers can be towns (whistlestops or
> small city), or Large Cities (single, double, triple, quad). The 1835
> Hamburg Tile with the tunnel is something I have not quite resolve how
> to draw properly yet.
> 
> But I do have as part of my existing tile definition base is every
> tile that 1830, 1835, 1853, 1856 and 1870 use. I would also need to
> look at 18EU, 18KAAS, and such to see if they have any new ones.
> 

I believe 18EU has new tiles. 18KAAS is just 1830 with a new map.


> Each Game has a Tile Set specifies the collections of tiles used the
> game from the common Tile Definition Sets.
> 
> You should be able look athe XML FIles in the Data directory of my
> code base and see something about what I am talking about. 
> 
> Mark


Interesting. I'd skimmed the XML files when you sent me the game engine,
but they're difficult to decipher without the rest of the source code to
know how you're processing them. ;-)

I can't immediately see any major problems with your method of defining
and drawing hexes. However, it obviously needs documentation (and maybe
even a DTD) to help anyone else create new tiles.

Is the 1835 Hamburg tile the only tile you've had difficulty defining?


---Brett.

Van Roy's Law:
	Honesty is the best policy - there's less competition.

Van Roy's Truism:
	Life is a whole series of circumstances beyond your control.

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

>
> Well, let's dig into it then. In my mind, the most important question
> is, how do you add new tiles?
>
> The current, rather convoluted, process is to create a new tile with
> Tile Designer, export the postscript file, convert it to SVG and GIF,
> then hand-tweak the SVG and GIF files. Obviously this is sub-optimal,
> but the tile set changes relatively infrequently, so I've just accepted
> the inefficiencies.
>
> If it's relatively easy to create new tiles in your format, I'm not
> opposed to ripping out the current tile sub-system entirely.
>
>
>

The current way I create Tiles is I create the tile definitions is by hand.
I laid out various points around the tile (center of each edge, points in
the hex that are near a side, near a corner, far from side, far from corner,
etc... and the center. Each of the Features of the tiles live either at one
of these points, or extending across two points (like track segments). A
Feature is like a Port, a Revenue Center (City or Town), a Terrain Feature,
etc. Privates are a two-point feature to draw the "track" segment for them.
Revenue values are a feature, Names are a Feature... Basically just about
anything that needs to be drawn on the hex/tile is a feature. One exception
is the Blocked Hexsides, which is a feature of each hex (max 6) that is
drawn AFTER any tile is drawn so that it overlaps the drawn tile. The hexes
that allow only a Green Tile to be placed initially, is drawn as either a
solid yellow hex (like 1835) or a Thick Yellow Frame (like 1830/1856).
Revenue Centers can be towns (whistlestops or small city), or Large Cities
(single, double, triple, quad). The 1835 Hamburg Tile with the tunnel is
something I have not quite resolve how to draw properly yet.

But I do have as part of my existing tile definition base is every tile that
1830, 1835, 1853, 1856 and 1870 use. I would also need to look at 18EU,
18KAAS, and such to see if they have any new ones.

Each Game has a Tile Set specifies the collections of tiles used the game
from the common Tile Definition Sets.

You should be able look athe XML FIles in the Data directory of my code base
and see something about what I am talking about.

Mark

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Brett L. <wak...@gm...>]

On Thu, 2008-10-23 at 18:49 -0500, Mark Smith wrote:
> I think I have it finally straightened out... the hitch was when I
> first checked out the code, I was doing it anonymously, so the CVS
> created various CVS directories with a 'ROOT' File that contained the
> Repository String as anonymous. Later when I changed the Repository
> Setting, and applied it, XCode did not walk through the tree and
> update those various files. I did that change now on the copy I have
> gotten to compile and run, and I can now do write commits.
> 
> Most annoying... 
> 
> But I am over that now... so I can actually look at the next step of
> fixing a few more bugs, and trying to work out integrating my code
> base with yours.
> 

Huzzah!

> I do have a different Tile Definition layout, and it would probably be
> best to determine how best to integrate them together.
> 

Well, let's dig into it then. In my mind, the most important question
is, how do you add new tiles?

The current, rather convoluted, process is to create a new tile with
Tile Designer, export the postscript file, convert it to SVG and GIF,
then hand-tweak the SVG and GIF files. Obviously this is sub-optimal,
but the tile set changes relatively infrequently, so I've just accepted
the inefficiencies.

If it's relatively easy to create new tiles in your format, I'm not
opposed to ripping out the current tile sub-system entirely.


> Mark
> 


---Brett.

"Look! There! Evil!.. pure and simple, total evil from the Eighth Dimension!"
-- Buckaroo Banzai



> On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Mark Smith <mar...@gm...>
> wrote:
>         There is the standard way of updating the Manifest.txt (or
>         manifest.txt) file to specify the default class that has the
>         main routine. I did that the first time I pulled down the code
>         base via anonymous retrieval, and got it to compile, including
>         finding a fixing a few other bugs. I just have to kick XCode
>         hard enough to make it see reason. I do like XCode, and have
>         developed most of my code base there. 
>         
>         I do know there is a Mac version of Eclipse, but that would
>         probably mean taking 20 steps back and getting used to a new
>         IDE. 
>         
>         My original intention was to update the SCM configuration for
>         XCode to use the authorized account 'krazick', and I did so in
>         every place I could find, but it still insisted on using the
>         anonymous login instead. It made no sense. Which is why I
>         tried creating a new project from scratch and the SCM
>         configuration worked then. I will get it straightened out, it
>         just is being annoying... which is why I was grumbling...
>         
>         Thanks for the words of encourgagement. 
>         

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

I think I have it finally straightened out... the hitch was when I first
checked out the code, I was doing it anonymously, so the CVS created various
CVS directories with a 'ROOT' File that contained the Repository String as
anonymous. Later when I changed the Repository Setting, and applied it,
XCode did not walk through the tree and update those various files. I did
that change now on the copy I have gotten to compile and run, and I can now
do write commits.

Most annoying...

But I am over that now... so I can actually look at the next step of fixing
a few more bugs, and trying to work out integrating my code base with yours.

I do have a different Tile Definition layout, and it would probably be best
to determine how best to integrate them together.

Mark

On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Mark Smith <mar...@gm...> wrote:

> There is the standard way of updating the Manifest.txt (or manifest.txt)
> file to specify the default class that has the main routine. I did that the
> first time I pulled down the code base via anonymous retrieval, and got it
> to compile, including finding a fixing a few other bugs. I just have to kick
> XCode hard enough to make it see reason. I do like XCode, and have developed
> most of my code base there.
>
> I do know there is a Mac version of Eclipse, but that would probably mean
> taking 20 steps back and getting used to a new IDE.
>
> My original intention was to update the SCM configuration for XCode to use
> the authorized account 'krazick', and I did so in every place I could find,
> but it still insisted on using the anonymous login instead. It made no
> sense. Which is why I tried creating a new project from scratch and the SCM
> configuration worked then. I will get it straightened out, it just is being
> annoying... which is why I was grumbling...
>
> Thanks for the words of encourgagement.
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

There is the standard way of updating the Manifest.txt (or manifest.txt)
file to specify the default class that has the main routine. I did that the
first time I pulled down the code base via anonymous retrieval, and got it
to compile, including finding a fixing a few other bugs. I just have to kick
XCode hard enough to make it see reason. I do like XCode, and have developed
most of my code base there.

I do know there is a Mac version of Eclipse, but that would probably mean
taking 20 steps back and getting used to a new IDE.

My original intention was to update the SCM configuration for XCode to use
the authorized account 'krazick', and I did so in every place I could find,
but it still insisted on using the anonymous login instead. It made no
sense. Which is why I tried creating a new project from scratch and the SCM
configuration worked then. I will get it straightened out, it just is being
annoying... which is why I was grumbling...

Thanks for the words of encourgagement.

Re: [Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Brett L. <wak...@gm...>]

On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 20:16 -0500, Mark Smith wrote:
> Grumble... I feel like I just took one step forward... and five steps
> back. 
> 
> I was able to get XCode to properly commit a change to CVS at Source
> Forge (I added a two lines to the AUTHORS file, a blank line and
> 'TEST'), I created a whole new XCode project, set up the repository
> fresh, with my Source Forge User name, did a code checkout to get the
> entire code base, and then modified the file. That seems to have fixed
> that issue.
> 
> But now I am back with the original problem I had when I first checked
> the code out when I was trying to get the stupid thing to compile and
> run. It would compile (28 warmings due to 'deperacated' routines in
> Rails that were called elsewhere in Rails). But it won't find the main
> routine. I fixed it before by adjusting the Manifest file and creating
> a new routine 'Rails' with the main routine (rather than GameTest).
> But it is now being very stubborn. I still cannot commit with my
> original project, which makes me think there is something buried in
> there that is saving the original anonymous configuration when trying
> to do a checkin. 
> 
> I can tell from the XCode use I have been doing, that this will work
> very well, once it is all configured correctly. But it is very very
> fustrating.
> 
> Mark
> 


I've not used XCode, so I'm not sure how it deals with things.  With
Eclipse, when I try to run a project it gives me the ability to point it
at the class containing main(), and it runs from there.  Does XCode not
have a similar mechanism?

FWIW, there is an OS X version of Eclipse. ;-)

---Brett.

"Life, loathe it or ignore it, you can't like it."
-- Marvin the paranoid android

[Rails-devel] CVS and XCode

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

Grumble... I feel like I just took one step forward... and five steps back.

I was able to get XCode to properly commit a change to CVS at Source Forge
(I added a two lines to the AUTHORS file, a blank line and 'TEST'), I
created a whole new XCode project, set up the repository fresh, with my
Source Forge User name, did a code checkout to get the entire code base, and
then modified the file. That seems to have fixed that issue.

But now I am back with the original problem I had when I first checked the
code out when I was trying to get the stupid thing to compile and run. It
would compile (28 warmings due to 'deperacated' routines in Rails that were
called elsewhere in Rails). But it won't find the main routine. I fixed it
before by adjusting the Manifest file and creating a new routine 'Rails'
with the main routine (rather than GameTest). But it is now being very
stubborn. I still cannot commit with my original project, which makes me
think there is something buried in there that is saving the original
anonymous configuration when trying to do a checkin.

I can tell from the XCode use I have been doing, that this will work very
well, once it is all configured correctly. But it is very very fustrating.

Mark

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

     When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in
OR 1, in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was
       below L&N, then in OR 2, L&N Ran first, after completing that run,
GM&O was not given a chance to operate at all.

I could not reproduce this behaviour. Mark, what exact sequence of actions
led to this situation? (And are you sure you haven't misunderstood the
appearance of the Status Window during the share trading step at the end of
each company's OR turn, from OR2 on?)


I admit I have not read the rules for 1851 in detail. If there is a special
situation that while in the middle of an Operating Round, a Share Round is
initiated for some special reason, then I withdraw my "bug". I am used to
the "old-school" 18XX games (1829, 1830, 1835, 1853, 1856, 1870, 1837) where
you stay in Operating Rounds until every company has operated. 
 



It's not a Share Round, but a step at the end of each company's turn in the
Operating Round where a company may buy or sell its *own* shares that it
holds in its own Treasury. In such games (there are many games nowadays that
have this feature) the unsold shares move from the Bank (IPO) to the company
treasury when the compamny floats.
 
In our current 18xx GUI share trading is done in the Status Window, so that
is the window that pops up in that step. However, the title is changed such
that it clearly (I hope) indicates that it is *not* a share round.
 
 Erik

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:

> I have fixed a number of bugs, some of which have been reported my Mark.
>
> 1. Wrong home city for L&N in 1851.
>

I was attempting to checkin the XML File to fix this issue, and ran across
my XCode to CVS Checkin Issues. I have yet to resolve this, but this is
fine.


>
> 2. No 2 yellow tiles allowed in 1851 from phase 3. Also relevant to 1835
> (major companies, phase 2) and 1870 (all phases). It was caused by the
> introduction of a more complex XML structure for this feature with 18EU,
> which was not retrofitted to these other games.


Oh, so this was not an outright code failure, but something else...
interesting.


>
>
> 3. My recent fix for the method calling loop was bad (it caused all
> privates
> having all special properties that exist in one game).


Whatever...

>
>
> 4. 1835 had a bug that did not allow this game even to start.
>
>
> On another problem reported by Mark:
>
>        When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in
> OR 1, in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was
>        below L&N, then in OR 2, L&N Ran first, after completing that run,
> GM&O was not given a chance to operate at all.
>
> I could not reproduce this behaviour. Mark, what exact sequence of actions
> led to this situation? (And are you sure you haven't misunderstood the
> appearance of the Status Window during the share trading step at the end of
> each company's OR turn, from OR2 on?)


I admit I have not read the rules for 1851 in detail. If there is a special
situation that while in the middle of an Operating Round, a Share Round is
initiated for some special reason, then I withdraw my "bug". I am used to
the "old-school" 18XX games (1829, 1830, 1835, 1853, 1856, 1870, 1837) where
you stay in Operating Rounds until every company has operated.


>
>
>
> I'm also looking at implementing Mark's suggestion to mention the current
> phase in the UI. I think I'm going to add a new ModelObject subclass (e.g.
> GameStatusModel) into GameManager, to which the various windows can
> subscribe for getting info like current phase, current player, current
> round. That will bring the flow of such status information from engine to
> UI
> on the same basis as much of the other displayed items. Hopefully this will
> ease the future client/server split another bit.
>

To go along with this thought, not only show the Phase, but may next to the
new label "Phase X", have 1-4 hexes set with the color of available tiles
(Yellow, Green, Brown/Russet, Gray) that are available in the Phase. Don't
show any track just a solid hex filled with the color. Maybe for those that
don't like to rely just on color include word or initials (Y, Gn, B, Gy)
centered in the hex as well.


>
> Erik Vos
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

I have fixed a number of bugs, some of which have been reported my Mark.

1. Wrong home city for L&N in 1851.

2. No 2 yellow tiles allowed in 1851 from phase 3. Also relevant to 1835
(major companies, phase 2) and 1870 (all phases). It was caused by the
introduction of a more complex XML structure for this feature with 18EU,
which was not retrofitted to these other games.

3. My recent fix for the method calling loop was bad (it caused all privates
having all special properties that exist in one game).

4. 1835 had a bug that did not allow this game even to start.


On another problem reported by Mark:

	When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in
OR 1, in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was
	below L&N, then in OR 2, L&N Ran first, after completing that run,
GM&O was not given a chance to operate at all.

I could not reproduce this behaviour. Mark, what exact sequence of actions
led to this situation? (And are you sure you haven't misunderstood the
appearance of the Status Window during the share trading step at the end of
each company's OR turn, from OR2 on?)


I'm also looking at implementing Mark's suggestion to mention the current
phase in the UI. I think I'm going to add a new ModelObject subclass (e.g.
GameStatusModel) into GameManager, to which the various windows can
subscribe for getting info like current phase, current player, current
round. That will bring the flow of such status information from engine to UI
on the same basis as much of the other displayed items. Hopefully this will
ease the future client/server split another bit.

Erik Vos

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

I am going to have to go back and pull out my 1830, and 1835 copies and
examine them. You may indeed be correct, and I was just seeing what I wanted
to see.

The code I have put together is intended to allow for changes like this.
Including having each game color schemes to be configurable, and to have the
future ability to have the entire color scheme configurable to the
individual player's personal preferences. The last would be most useful in
network based play, where you have your client set to the color scheme you
prefer, and each player would see a different color scheme for the same
game. Think about people that are color blind. Or those that say "I don't
like that color of yellow".

On source check-in, I have not had enough time yet to resolve the XCODE-CVS
Checkin issues. I think I will try and see if I can do it via command line.
If I can, then the issue is with how I configure XCODE, and not with the CVS
Configuration, or with any sort of firewall issues. More to come soon I
hope.

Mark

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Brett L. <wak...@gm...>]

On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 21:06 +0200, Erik Vos wrote:
>         On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...>
>         wrote:
>         
>                 Another suggestion would be to make the background
>                 color of the revenue circles on the tiles equal to the
>                 tile color. The current white bg, together with the
>                 relatively large size of these circles, make them look
>                 almost like cities. For instance, in 1835, yellow
>                 Berlin almost looks like having three cities, rather
>                 than two. 
>                   
>                 For contrast, it might then be worth considering to
>                 turn the back foreground color into white on darker
>                 backgrounds. 
>                   
>                 Work is needed on the correct relative placement of
>                 tile elements (name, cost, other features), as these
>                 currently often overlap. 
>                   
>                 Names often extend to outside the map hex. Perhaps
>                 wrapping over two lines should be considered in some
>                 cases, or perhaps the names should only appear on the
>                 tooltip, or should only be shown if the map scale is
>                 above a certain threshold. 
>                   
>                 Erik. 
>                 
>                 
>                 
>         
>         
>         As for the Revenue Circles background the same as the tile
>         background, I was attempting to mimic the way the tiles are
>         drawn on the actual board, which is white circles. 
> Some games do it this way, yes, but others don't (for instance 1830
> and 1835).
>         I will agree that they do appear too large on the default
>         scale of 8 (or smaller). But I don't think making them the
>         exact tile background color would work either. I feel the
>         revenue value would be lost.  Maybe some other neutral
>         color... say maybe a pale blue background might be better. 
> Ouch...
>         I am not sure what you mean by the "for contrast... "
>         statement. 
> The idea was to draw a white circle and number on dark tiles (keeping
> the background as is). Just an idea. Keeping the tile colours on the
> light side is probably better.
>         As for the over-laps, yes, the City Name overlaps have
>         bothered me. A the idea of simply having the names on the tool
>         tip would be fine. For the costs for Terrain features, one
>         update I had not gotten to yet was the currency symbol.  But
>         yes, the overlaps even without the City Names do happen at a
>         few points, and to fix those, requires tweaking the placements
>         a bit this way or that way, which ends up being more a tedious
>         data change, rather than the fun coding bit... :--)
>         
>         As for wrapping a name, Yes, it could be done, but may not be
>         worth the effort. The code is designed to draw the map hex, by
>         hex. And draw the names as the hex is drawn, rather than after
>         all the hexes are drawn to go back and plot the names down.
>         But maybe do a combination of the Tool Tip for Scale < X, and
>         drawn when Scale is >= X is feasible. I shall look at that
>         option. But do note, when the Scale is increased, the Font
>         Size is current not increased to match. I was figuring that
>         when I got to that bit, I would actually look at each scale
>         level, and determine by eye which font size was best.


These colors probably should just be user-configurable.

Mark's drawing code appears to make that possible. 

Implementing user configurable colors after his code is merged seems
like the easiest path to solving the problem. ;-)

---Brett.

Euch ist bekannt, was wir beduerfen;
Wir wollen stark Getraenke schluerfen.
		-- Goethe, "Faust"

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

As for the Revenue Circles background the same as the tile background, I was
attempting to mimic the way the tiles are drawn on the actual board, which
is white circles. 

Some games do it this way, yes, but others don't (for instance 1830 and
1835).

I will agree that they do appear too large on the default scale of 8 (or
smaller). But I don't think making them the exact tile background color
would work either. I feel the revenue value would be lost.  Maybe some other
neutral color... say maybe a pale blue background might be better. 

Ouch...

I am not sure what you mean by the "for contrast... " statement. 

The idea was to draw a white circle and number on dark tiles (keeping the
background as is). Just an idea. Keeping the tile colours on the light side
is probably better.

As for the over-laps, yes, the City Name overlaps have bothered me. A the
idea of simply having the names on the tool tip would be fine. For the costs
for Terrain features, one update I had not gotten to yet was the currency
symbol.  But yes, the overlaps even without the City Names do happen at a
few points, and to fix those, requires tweaking the placements a bit this
way or that way, which ends up being more a tedious data change, rather than
the fun coding bit... :--)

As for wrapping a name, Yes, it could be done, but may not be worth the
effort. The code is designed to draw the map hex, by hex. And draw the names
as the hex is drawn, rather than after all the hexes are drawn to go back
and plot the names down. But maybe do a combination of the Tool Tip for
Scale < X, and drawn when Scale is >= X is feasible. I shall look at that
option. But do note, when the Scale is increased, the Font Size is current
not increased to match. I was figuring that when I got to that bit, I would
actually look at each scale level, and determine by eye which font size was
best.




On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:


Another suggestion would be to make the background color of the revenue
circles on the tiles equal to the tile color. The current white bg, together
with the relatively large size of these circles, make them look almost like
cities. For instance, in 1835, yellow Berlin almost looks like having three
cities, rather than two.
 
For contrast, it might then be worth considering to turn the back foreground
color into white on darker backgrounds.
 
Work is needed on the correct relative placement of tile elements (name,
cost, other features), as these currently often overlap.
 
Names often extend to outside the map hex. Perhaps wrapping over two lines
should be considered in some cases, or perhaps the names should only appear
on the tooltip, or should only be shown if the map scale is above a certain
threshold.
 
Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

As for the Revenue Circles background the same as the tile background, I was
attempting to mimic the way the tiles are drawn on the actual board, which
is white circles. I will agree that they do appear too large on the default
scale of 8 (or smaller). But I don't think making them the exact tile
background color would work either. I feel the revenue value would be lost.
Maybe some other neutral color... say maybe a pale blue background might be
better.

I am not sure what you mean by the "for contrast... " statement.

As for the over-laps, yes, the City Name overlaps have bothered me. A the
idea of simply having the names on the tool tip would be fine. For the costs
for Terrain features, one update I had not gotten to yet was the currency
symbol.  But yes, the overlaps even without the City Names do happen at a
few points, and to fix those, requires tweaking the placements a bit this
way or that way, which ends up being more a tedious data change, rather than
the fun coding bit... :--)

As for wrapping a name, Yes, it could be done, but may not be worth the
effort. The code is designed to draw the map hex, by hex. And draw the names
as the hex is drawn, rather than after all the hexes are drawn to go back
and plot the names down. But maybe do a combination of the Tool Tip for
Scale < X, and drawn when Scale is >= X is feasible. I shall look at that
option. But do note, when the Scale is increased, the Font Size is current
not increased to match. I was figuring that when I got to that bit, I would
actually look at each scale level, and determine by eye which font size was
best.


On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:

>  Another suggestion would be to make the background color of the revenue
> circles on the tiles equal to the tile color. The current white bg, together
> with the relatively large size of these circles, make them look almost like
> cities. For instance, in 1835, yellow Berlin almost looks like having three
> cities, rather than two.
>
> For contrast, it might then be worth considering to turn the back
> foreground color into white on darker backgrounds.
>
> Work is needed on the correct relative placement of tile elements (name,
> cost, other features), as these currently often overlap.
>
> Names often extend to outside the map hex. Perhaps wrapping over two lines
> should be considered in some cases, or perhaps the names should only appear
> on the tooltip, or should only be shown if the map scale is above a certain
> threshold.
>
> Erik.
>
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

Another suggestion would be to make the background color of the revenue
circles on the tiles equal to the tile color. The current white bg, together
with the relatively large size of these circles, make them look almost like
cities. For instance, in 1835, yellow Berlin almost looks like having three
cities, rather than two.
 
For contrast, it might then be worth considering to turn the back foreground
color into white on darker backgrounds.
 
Work is needed on the correct relative placement of tile elements (name,
cost, other features), as these currently often overlap.
 
Names often extend to outside the map hex. Perhaps wrapping over two lines
should be considered in some cases, or perhaps the names should only appear
on the tooltip, or should only be shown if the map scale is above a certain
threshold.
 
Erik.


  _____  

From: Mark Smith [mailto:mar...@gm...] 
Sent: Wednesday 15 October 2008 00:53
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4



And yes, my Error messages are not super-descriptive... 

Erik has expressed the preference for the light-green default background on
the playable hexes. And yes, that is very possible, just a minor change to
one line of code specifying the background color. Just have to dig into the
code to find that line. Other improvement suggestions are always welcome.

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

And yes, my Error messages are not super-descriptive...

Erik has expressed the preference for the light-green default background on
the playable hexes. And yes, that is very possible, just a minor change to
one line of code specifying the background color. Just have to dig into the
code to find that line. Other improvement suggestions are always welcome.

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

That is odd. When you extracted the Zip file, you should have ended up with
a directory "18XX XML Data" that contains 33 files. This directory should
live right next to the Engine_18XX.jar, and you should be in the directory
where you extracted it from.

The other question is whether any of the maps for any of the other games
show up. If they do, and only 1830 map fails, then see if the file "1830
Map.xml" is in the "18XX XML Data" Directory.

If you still have problems, I will go back and look at it again.

Mark

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 5:05 PM, kos petoussis <kos...@gm...> wrote:

> java -jar Engine_18XX.jar works, but loading a map 1830 gives an Oops
> mucked up the xml path.
>
>
>>
>> Just to repost the link, here's Mark's engine:
>>
>> http://rails.sourceforge.net/18XX_Engine.Sept_2008.zip
>>
>> ---Brett
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails-devel Digest, Vol 19, Issue 4

[kos p. <kos...@gm...>]

java -jar Engine_18XX.jar works, but loading a map 1830 gives an Oops mucked
up the xml path.


>
> Just to repost the link, here's Mark's engine:
>
> http://rails.sourceforge.net/18XX_Engine.Sept_2008.zip
>
> ---Brett
>
>
>
> --------------

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

OH, and I have at least replicated the Phase 3+ problem of only one tile lay
allowed. Which brings up another point about the UI... The Map Display
should indicate, maybe in the Title Bar, what is the current Phase. This
helps to players familiar with the board games who know about Phases, and
are reading the rule-books, know which Phase the game think's it is within.

Good point.

 Looking at the the mutli-tile lay per turn, but only from Phase 3 forward,
it might make sense to include in the Phase Description a count of the
number of tiles that can be placed. 1851, Phase 3 and later 2. 1870 can
always lay 2 yellow tiles, or upgrade one already placed. Etc.
 

It's configured in CompanyManager.xml, because in games with minor and major
companies the number of tile lays may be different between these types. For
instance, in 18EU only minor companies may lay two yellow tiles, and only in
their first turn.
It's already defined for 1851, is just has stopped working...

If you haven't seen what I sent to Brett, and posted, it might be worth you
taking a look. I had started building up and 18XX Engine with the primary
(initial) focus on the map and tiles. The application is not a complete
implementation, but I feel it shows a much better Map and Tiles. It does
allow the map to be scaled up or down via a slider. All of the information
on the Map is drawn by the code, the cities, towns, track segments, blocked
hexsides, river graphics, mountain graphics, port symbols, etc. I do have
the desire to see about incorporating my code base in with the Rails Code
Base over time. But I need to work out a plan to do so. 

Yes. I have seen it. It looks good, although I would prefer the usual pale
green background over a yellowish one, and I would have a few more quibbles.
As map and tile drawing is done in the few classes of rails.ui.swing.hexmap,
replacement shouldn't be too hard (personally I would prefer a choice of
styles, but that no doubt would make it harder). For the additional info
that you display, some extensions would be needed to Map.xml and the MapHex
model objects.
 
Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

OH, and I have at least replicated the Phase 3+ problem of only one tile lay
allowed. Which brings up another point about the UI... The Map Display
should indicate, maybe in the Title Bar, what is the current Phase. This
helps to players familiar with the board games who know about Phases, and
are reading the rule-books, know which Phase the game think's it is within.

Looking at the the mutli-tile lay per turn, but only from Phase 3 forward,
it might make sense to include in the Phase Description a count of the
number of tiles that can be placed. 1851, Phase 3 and later 2. 1870 can
always lay 2 yellow tiles, or upgrade one already placed. Etc.

Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Mark Smith <mar...@gm...> wrote:

> Erik,
>
> If you haven't seen what I sent to Brett, and posted, it might be worth you
> taking a look. I had started building up and 18XX Engine with the primary
> (initial) focus on the map and tiles. The application is not a complete
> implementation, but I feel it shows a much better Map and Tiles. It does
> allow the map to be scaled up or down via a slider. All of the information
> on the Map is drawn by the code, the cities, towns, track segments, blocked
> hexsides, river graphics, mountain graphics, port symbols, etc. I do have
> the desire to see about incorporating my code base in with the Rails Code
> Base over time. But I need to work out a plan to do so.
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:
>
>>  Comments see below.
>>
>>  1. In the Map Display, Cincinati at the top of the board is cut off. I
>> think the whole position for 1851 is set too high in the Map Frame
>>
>> Correct. The problem is, that in the game as published the "A" row is the
>> row *below* Cincinnati. So I have given the Cincinnati hex the name "@18"
>> as @ is the ASCII character below A. This works well, except that the map
>> placement code is not aware of this exception.
>> The best solution is, perhaps, to have the code create the map position
>> and window size based on the actual lowest and highest row and column
>> values. This is done in EWHexMap (and NSHexMap for the other hex
>> orientation). The map placement in its panel needs be refined anyway.
>>
>> 2. The L&N Starting Home Location in B16 should be the Northern City, not
>> the Southern City (based upon the board photo at:
>> http://boardgamegeek.com/image/126915?size=large.This can be fixed by
>> updating the CompanyManager.xml File under data/1851, line 38 (for the L&N
>> Public Company) to be <Home hex=B16", city="1">
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> 3. When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in OR
>> 1, in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was below L&N, then in OR 2,
>> L&N Ran first, after completing that run, GM&O was not given a chance to
>> operate at all.
>>
>> Hmm, that is serious. I'll look at it later this week (if you haven't
>> fixed it before, of course...).
>> Erik.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
>> challenge
>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great
>> prizes
>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the
>> world
>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

> On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:
>>
>> Comments see below.
>>
>> 1. In the Map Display, Cincinati at the top of the board is cut off. I
>> think the whole position for 1851 is set too high in the Map Frame
>>
>> Correct. The problem is, that in the game as published the "A" row is the
>> row below Cincinnati. So I have given the Cincinnati hex the name "@18" as @
>> is the ASCII character below A. This works well, except that the map
>> placement code is not aware of this exception.
>> The best solution is, perhaps, to have the code create the map position
>> and window size based on the actual lowest and highest row and column
>> values. This is done in EWHexMap (and NSHexMap for the other hex
>> orientation). The map placement in its panel needs be refined anyway.
>>
>> 2. The L&N Starting Home Location in B16 should be the Northern City, not
>> the Southern City (based upon the board photo at:
>> http://boardgamegeek.com/image/126915?size=large.This can be fixed by
>> updating the CompanyManager.xml File under data/1851, line 38 (for the L&N
>> Public Company) to be <Home hex=B16", city="1">
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> 3. When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in OR
>> 1, in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was below L&N, then in OR 2,
>> L&N Ran first, after completing that run, GM&O was not given a chance to
>> operate at all.
>>
>> Hmm, that is serious. I'll look at it later this week (if you haven't
>> fixed it before, of course...).
>> Erik.
>
>
> Erik,
>
> If you haven't seen what I sent to Brett, and posted, it might be worth you
> taking a look. I had started building up and 18XX Engine with the primary
> (initial) focus on the map and tiles. The application is not a complete
> implementation, but I feel it shows a much better Map and Tiles. It does
> allow the map to be scaled up or down via a slider. All of the information
> on the Map is drawn by the code, the cities, towns, track segments, blocked
> hexsides, river graphics, mountain graphics, port symbols, etc. I do have
> the desire to see about incorporating my code base in with the Rails Code
> Base over time. But I need to work out a plan to do so.
>
> Mark
>


Just to repost the link, here's Mark's engine:

http://rails.sourceforge.net/18XX_Engine.Sept_2008.zip

---Brett

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Mark S. <mar...@gm...>]

Erik,

If you haven't seen what I sent to Brett, and posted, it might be worth you
taking a look. I had started building up and 18XX Engine with the primary
(initial) focus on the map and tiles. The application is not a complete
implementation, but I feel it shows a much better Map and Tiles. It does
allow the map to be scaled up or down via a slider. All of the information
on the Map is drawn by the code, the cities, towns, track segments, blocked
hexsides, river graphics, mountain graphics, port symbols, etc. I do have
the desire to see about incorporating my code base in with the Rails Code
Base over time. But I need to work out a plan to do so.

Mark

On Sun, Oct 12, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:

>  Comments see below.
>
>  1. In the Map Display, Cincinati at the top of the board is cut off. I
> think the whole position for 1851 is set too high in the Map Frame
>
> Correct. The problem is, that in the game as published the "A" row is the
> row *below* Cincinnati. So I have given the Cincinnati hex the name "@18"
> as @ is the ASCII character below A. This works well, except that the map
> placement code is not aware of this exception.
> The best solution is, perhaps, to have the code create the map position and
> window size based on the actual lowest and highest row and column values.
> This is done in EWHexMap (and NSHexMap for the other hex orientation). The
> map placement in its panel needs be refined anyway.
>
> 2. The L&N Starting Home Location in B16 should be the Northern City, not
> the Southern City (based upon the board photo at:
> http://boardgamegeek.com/image/126915?size=large.This can be fixed by
> updating the CompanyManager.xml File under data/1851, line 38 (for the L&N
> Public Company) to be <Home hex=B16", city="1">
>
> Correct.
>
> 3. When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in OR
> 1, in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was below L&N, then in OR 2,
> L&N Ran first, after completing that run, GM&O was not given a chance to
> operate at all.
>
> Hmm, that is serious. I'll look at it later this week (if you haven't fixed
> it before, of course...).
> Erik.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Bugs fixed

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

Comments see below.


1. In the Map Display, Cincinati at the top of the board is cut off. I think
the whole position for 1851 is set too high in the Map Frame 

Correct. The problem is, that in the game as published the "A" row is the
row below Cincinnati. So I have given the Cincinnati hex the name "@18" as @
is the ASCII character below A. This works well, except that the map
placement code is not aware of this exception.
The best solution is, perhaps, to have the code create the map position and
window size based on the actual lowest and highest row and column values.
This is done in EWHexMap (and NSHexMap for the other hex orientation). The
map placement in its panel needs be refined anyway.

2. The L&N Starting Home Location in B16 should be the Northern City, not
the Southern City (based upon the board photo at:
http://boardgamegeek.com/image/126915?size=large.This can be fixed by
updating the CompanyManager.xml File under data/1851, line 38 (for the L&N
Public Company) to be <Home hex=B16", city="1"> 

Correct.

3. When attempting to step through the game, I started L&N and GM&O in OR 1,
in SR 2 I sold GM&O so that it's stock value was below L&N, then in OR 2,
L&N Ran first, after completing that run, GM&O was not given a chance to
operate at all.

Hmm, that is serious. I'll look at it later this week (if you haven't fixed
it before, of course...). 

Erik.