rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

I'd be happy to help with info text too.  

I think it's inevitable that there's rules questions during play.

In my f2f games, I have the rulebook at hand all the time- I'm sure you guys do too.  

I do that for pbem games too, but it's nice if really basic stuff is summarized without having to look at the book (train prices and schedule, simple privates/private-tokens stuff, etc).  

Much of that would be normally summarized on the charters, the back of the privates, markings on special tokens/chits, etc, that aren't apparent when we're playing within Rails.

It seems like the ideal would be- Rails won't teach you the game, but the basic summary/info is close at hand, just for reference.

 - jim

 
On Jan 15, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Phil Davies wrote:

> I'm happy to write up info text, Can do this for 18EU or 1870 which I
> both own which is a good start, after that I'd be reliant on other
> sources for solid data for input.
> 
> I'd agree with the approach of not being too overt with the rules.
> There are certain things that might be a nice assistance such as when
> trains rust but I wouldn't want to put in too much data in this
> regard, just clean, simple reminders of certain key points
> 
> 2010/1/15 Erik Vos <eri...@xs...>:
>> I don't know what kind of stories you would put there; I find the current
>> private info is pretty complete.
>> And so far the assumption pretty much was that users were up to date on the
>> rules.
>> Including the game rules certainly isn't in the scope of this project.
>> 
>> But sure it can be done. For instance an (optional) extra <Info> tag per
>> company and train type.
>> Such train and private info could nicely be made visible as extra items
>> under the Info menu in the Map/OR window.
>> 
>> I can write the code, but I need a volunteer to write the texts. Anyone?
>> 
>> Erik.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...]
>> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 21:50
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>> 
>> 
>> I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-
>> 
>> a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the
>> info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be
>> added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if
>> present)
>> 
>> b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic (the
>> info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)
>> 
>> c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed in
>> 1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice
>> 
>> so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a
>> train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a
>> popup.
>> 
>> in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding, in
>> this area.   %-}
>> 
>> this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's too
>> tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.
>> 
>> -  jim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
>> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
>> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
>> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Aliza P. <ali...@gm...>]

Many games include some form of player aid that spells out what
changes in each phase of the game, that might be a good place to
start.

I'd be happy to try my hand at writing 1-line summaries of some of the
1856 unique features, like the rules for loans (shares in player
hands) and conditional floating (shares sold out of IPO).

1870 would need a one-line explanation of price protection

Any game that deviates from "one tile per company per OR" should have
that mentioned.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:
> I'm happy to write up info text, Can do this for 18EU or 1870 which I
> both own which is a good start, after that I'd be reliant on other
> sources for solid data for input.
>
> I'd agree with the approach of not being too overt with the rules.
> There are certain things that might be a nice assistance such as when
> trains rust but I wouldn't want to put in too much data in this
> regard, just clean, simple reminders of certain key points
>
> 2010/1/15 Erik Vos <eri...@xs...>:
>> I don't know what kind of stories you would put there; I find the current
>> private info is pretty complete.
>> And so far the assumption pretty much was that users were up to date on the
>> rules.
>> Including the game rules certainly isn't in the scope of this project.
>>
>> But sure it can be done. For instance an (optional) extra <Info> tag per
>> company and train type.
>> Such train and private info could nicely be made visible as extra items
>> under the Info menu in the Map/OR window.
>>
>> I can write the code, but I need a volunteer to write the texts. Anyone?
>>
>> Erik.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...]
>> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 21:50
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>>
>>
>> I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-
>>
>> a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the
>> info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be
>> added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if
>> present)
>>
>> b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic (the
>> info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)
>>
>> c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed in
>> 1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice
>>
>> so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a
>> train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a
>> popup.
>>
>> in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding, in
>> this area.   %-}
>>
>> this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's too
>> tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.
>>
>> -  jim
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
>> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
>> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
>> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

AH!

Yeah, that's clearly a bug.  I suspect the $325 is probably the total
currently in escrow, not the value that was added.

---Brett.



On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
> But the price was 65, not 325.
>
> --
> Chris Shaffer
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
> On Jan 15, 2010, at 5:05 PM, brett lentz <wak...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> I'm in agreement with Erik on this one, and a native speaker of the
>> language. ;-)
>>
>> There's no functional difference between the sentences. I don't see
>> where they might make someone think the money was paid to anybody
>> other than the escrow holdings for LPS. Both sentences presume that
>> the reader knows what "held in escrow" means. So, I don't see why you
>> describe our version as misleading.
>>
>> The only real grammatical errors are the missing comma before the
>> 'which' clause and the lack of a period at the end of the sentence.
>> See also: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/parens.asp and
>> http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/CliffsReviewTopic/Uses-of-Parentheses.topicArticleId-29011,articleId-28994.html
>>
>> If you don't care for the parentheses, these options would also be
>> another way to state it:
>>
>> "The price of $325 is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for
>> LPS."
>> "The price, $325, is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for
>> LPS."
>>
>> ---Brett.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
>>> I frankly don't see any substantial difference between these two
>>> formulations.
>>> Now English isn't my mother language, so I'm open to be corrected...
>>>
>>> Erik.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aliza Panitz [mailto:ali...@gm...]
>>> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 22:22
>>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>>> Subject: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting
>>>
>>> A nitpick from the SR report window:
>>>
>>> Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
>>> The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS
>>>
>>> This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:
>>>
>>> The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts
>> the
>> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
>> Conference
>> attendees to learn about information security's most important
>> issues through
>> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established
>> companies.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

As Erik said, we need to be somewhat careful in how we handle this, as
we don't want to overstep our bounds.

This is one of those cases where Rails simply expects you to have your
own (purchased, legal) copy of the rules to use for referencing these
things.

While 18xx rights holders don't have anywhere near the reputation for
enforcement that Games Workshop does, I still want to maintain a
fairly strong requirement that in order to use Rails, you will need to
own a copy of the game.

That said...  I think we can do some tooltips that could provide
reminders without going overboard. I think something like "Allows
track on A7.", or "Allows crossing the Mississippi." might work.

---Brett.



On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
> I think little helper texts would go a long way toward making the games
> easier to play.  To check what this was about, I just fired up a game of
> 18AL.  I see the Tusc, S&NA, B&SLC, M&C and NDY are on offer in the private
> company auction.  Now, I know 18AL has privates with a coal token, a lumber
> terminal tile, a train name token and a half-price railroad, but I'll be
> darned if i can remember which one the M&C is - maybe it's the lumber
> terminal? Dunno.  A small text label woudl be very helpful.
>
> By the way, when I click the small icon with a circle around an i, nothing
> happens.  Is it supposed to do anything?
>
> Similarly, it's really handy to remember if this is the game where the 5 or
> the 6 train rusts the 3 trains when you're playing 8 different pbem games at
> the same time.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know what kind of stories you would put there; I find the current
>> private info is pretty complete.
>> And so far the assumption pretty much was that users were up to date on
>> the
>> rules.
>> Including the game rules certainly isn't in the scope of this project.
>>
>> But sure it can be done. For instance an (optional) extra <Info> tag per
>> company and train type.
>> Such train and private info could nicely be made visible as extra items
>> under the Info menu in the Map/OR window.
>>
>> I can write the code, but I need a volunteer to write the texts. Anyone?
>>
>> Erik.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...]
>> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 21:50
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>>
>>
>> I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-
>>
>> a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the
>> info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be
>> added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if
>> present)
>>
>> b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic
>> (the
>> info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)
>>
>> c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed
>> in
>> 1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice
>>
>> so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a
>> train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a
>> popup.
>>
>> in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding,
>> in
>> this area.   %-}
>>
>> this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's
>> too
>> tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.
>>
>> -  jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
>> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
>> Conference
>> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues
>> through
>> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established
>> companies.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
> Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues
> through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Well, the problem is that it says "the price paid ($325)" when in fact the
price that was paid is $65 and the $325 figure is the total escrow including
the price paid now and the price paid for previous share purchases.  The
current wording ascribes the entire escrow as the "price paid" for one
share.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:

> I frankly don't see any substantial difference between these two
> formulations.
> Now English isn't my mother language, so I'm open to be corrected...
>
> Erik.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aliza Panitz [mailto:ali...@gm...]
> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 22:22
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting
>
> A nitpick from the SR report window:
>
> Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
> The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS
>
> This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:
>
> The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
> Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues
> through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
> Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues
> through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

Chris has picked up on the point that I think the rest of us were
missing (I was!)...the price wasn't 325, the price was 65 and the
total amount in escrow is now 325, which is misleading.

You could also say
The price ($65) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS
($325 total in escrow for LPS)

Phil

2010/1/16 Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>:
> But the price was 65, not 325.
>
> --
> Chris Shaffer
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
> On Jan 15, 2010, at 5:05 PM, brett lentz <wak...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> I'm in agreement with Erik on this one, and a native speaker of the
>> language. ;-)
>>
>> There's no functional difference between the sentences. I don't see
>> where they might make someone think the money was paid to anybody
>> other than the escrow holdings for LPS. Both sentences presume that
>> the reader knows what "held in escrow" means. So, I don't see why you
>> describe our version as misleading.
>>
>> The only real grammatical errors are the missing comma before the
>> 'which' clause and the lack of a period at the end of the sentence.
>> See also: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/parens.asp and
>> http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/CliffsReviewTopic/Uses-of-Parentheses.topicArticleId-29011,articleId-28994.html
>>
>> If you don't care for the parentheses, these options would also be
>> another way to state it:
>>
>> "The price of $325 is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for
>> LPS."
>> "The price, $325, is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for
>> LPS."
>>
>> ---Brett.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
>>> I frankly don't see any substantial difference between these two
>>> formulations.
>>> Now English isn't my mother language, so I'm open to be corrected...
>>>
>>> Erik.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aliza Panitz [mailto:ali...@gm...]
>>> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 22:22
>>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>>> Subject: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting
>>>
>>> A nitpick from the SR report window:
>>>
>>> Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
>>> The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS
>>>
>>> This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:
>>>
>>> The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts
>> the
>> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
>> Conference
>> attendees to learn about information security's most important
>> issues through
>> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established
>> companies.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

But the price was 65, not 325.

--
Chris Shaffer

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

On Jan 15, 2010, at 5:05 PM, brett lentz <wak...@gm...> wrote:

> I'm in agreement with Erik on this one, and a native speaker of the
> language. ;-)
>
> There's no functional difference between the sentences. I don't see
> where they might make someone think the money was paid to anybody
> other than the escrow holdings for LPS. Both sentences presume that
> the reader knows what "held in escrow" means. So, I don't see why you
> describe our version as misleading.
>
> The only real grammatical errors are the missing comma before the
> 'which' clause and the lack of a period at the end of the sentence.
> See also: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/parens.asp and
> http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/CliffsReviewTopic/Uses-of-Parentheses.topicArticleId-29011,articleId-28994.html
>
> If you don't care for the parentheses, these options would also be
> another way to state it:
>
> "The price of $325 is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for  
> LPS."
> "The price, $325, is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for  
> LPS."
>
> ---Brett.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
>> I frankly don't see any substantial difference between these two
>> formulations.
>> Now English isn't my mother language, so I'm open to be corrected...
>>
>> Erik.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aliza Panitz [mailto:ali...@gm...]
>> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 22:22
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting
>>
>> A nitpick from the SR report window:
>>
>> Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
>> The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS
>>
>> This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:
>>
>> The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS
>>
>
> --- 
> --- 
> --- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts  
> the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for  
> Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important  
> issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established  
> companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

I'm happy to write up info text, Can do this for 18EU or 1870 which I
both own which is a good start, after that I'd be reliant on other
sources for solid data for input.

I'd agree with the approach of not being too overt with the rules.
There are certain things that might be a nice assistance such as when
trains rust but I wouldn't want to put in too much data in this
regard, just clean, simple reminders of certain key points

2010/1/15 Erik Vos <eri...@xs...>:
> I don't know what kind of stories you would put there; I find the current
> private info is pretty complete.
> And so far the assumption pretty much was that users were up to date on the
> rules.
> Including the game rules certainly isn't in the scope of this project.
>
> But sure it can be done. For instance an (optional) extra <Info> tag per
> company and train type.
> Such train and private info could nicely be made visible as extra items
> under the Info menu in the Map/OR window.
>
> I can write the code, but I need a volunteer to write the texts. Anyone?
>
> Erik.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...]
> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 21:50
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>
>
> I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-
>
> a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the
> info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be
> added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if
> present)
>
> b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic (the
> info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)
>
> c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed in
> 1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice
>
> so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a
> train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a
> popup.
>
> in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding, in
> this area.   %-}
>
> this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's too
> tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.
>
> -  jim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

I'm in agreement with Erik on this one, and a native speaker of the
language. ;-)

There's no functional difference between the sentences. I don't see
where they might make someone think the money was paid to anybody
other than the escrow holdings for LPS. Both sentences presume that
the reader knows what "held in escrow" means. So, I don't see why you
describe our version as misleading.

The only real grammatical errors are the missing comma before the
'which' clause and the lack of a period at the end of the sentence.
See also: http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/parens.asp and
http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/CliffsReviewTopic/Uses-of-Parentheses.topicArticleId-29011,articleId-28994.html

If you don't care for the parentheses, these options would also be
another way to state it:

"The price of $325 is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for LPS."
"The price, $325, is paid to the Bank, which holds it in escrow for LPS."

---Brett.



On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:54 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> I frankly don't see any substantial difference between these two
> formulations.
> Now English isn't my mother language, so I'm open to be corrected...
>
> Erik.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aliza Panitz [mailto:ali...@gm...]
> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 22:22
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting
>
> A nitpick from the SR report window:
>
> Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
> The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS
>
> This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:
>
> The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS
>

Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

I think little helper texts would go a long way toward making the games
easier to play.  To check what this was about, I just fired up a game of
18AL.  I see the Tusc, S&NA, B&SLC, M&C and NDY are on offer in the private
company auction.  Now, I know 18AL has privates with a coal token, a lumber
terminal tile, a train name token and a half-price railroad, but I'll be
darned if i can remember which one the M&C is - maybe it's the lumber
terminal? Dunno.  A small text label woudl be very helpful.

By the way, when I click the small icon with a circle around an i, nothing
happens.  Is it supposed to do anything?

Similarly, it's really handy to remember if this is the game where the 5 or
the 6 train rusts the 3 trains when you're playing 8 different pbem games at
the same time.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:

> I don't know what kind of stories you would put there; I find the current
> private info is pretty complete.
> And so far the assumption pretty much was that users were up to date on the
> rules.
> Including the game rules certainly isn't in the scope of this project.
>
> But sure it can be done. For instance an (optional) extra <Info> tag per
> company and train type.
> Such train and private info could nicely be made visible as extra items
> under the Info menu in the Map/OR window.
>
> I can write the code, but I need a volunteer to write the texts. Anyone?
>
> Erik.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...]
> Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 21:50
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>
>
> I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-
>
> a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the
> info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be
> added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if
> present)
>
> b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic (the
> info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)
>
> c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed
> in
> 1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice
>
> so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a
> train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a
> popup.
>
> in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding, in
> this area.   %-}
>
> this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's too
> tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.
>
> -  jim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
> Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues
> through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I frankly don't see any substantial difference between these two
formulations.
Now English isn't my mother language, so I'm open to be corrected...

Erik. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Aliza Panitz [mailto:ali...@gm...] 
Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 22:22
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: [Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

A nitpick from the SR report window:

Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS

This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:

The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for
Conference
attendees to learn about information security's most important issues
through
interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I don't know what kind of stories you would put there; I find the current
private info is pretty complete.
And so far the assumption pretty much was that users were up to date on the
rules.
Including the game rules certainly isn't in the scope of this project.

But sure it can be done. For instance an (optional) extra <Info> tag per
company and train type.
Such train and private info could nicely be made visible as extra items
under the Info menu in the Map/OR window.

I can write the code, but I need a volunteer to write the texts. Anyone? 

Erik.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Black [mailto:jim...@ya...] 
Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 21:50
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml


I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-

a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the
info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be
added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if
present) 

b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic (the
info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)

c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed in
1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice

so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a
train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a
popup.  

in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding, in
this area.   %-}

this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's too
tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.

-  jim
 

[Rails-devel] 1856 SR escrow reporting

[Aliza P. <ali...@gm...>]

A nitpick from the SR report window:

Joshua buys a 10% share of LPS from IPO for $65.
The price ($325) is paid to the Bank which holds it in escrow for LPS

This is misleading, and can confuse newer players.  How about:

The price is paid to the Bank which now holds $325 in escrow for LPS

Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Jim B. <jim...@ya...>]

I wanted to interject a couple of comments related to the xml-

a) in the privates auction- it's nice to see the privates info under the info (i) button, but it sure is cryptic.  could a textual description be added to the xml record, so that annotation/text displays instead? (if present) 

b) afaik, I can't get back to that help info later- that's problematic (the info is often critical, when you're trying to use the private)

c) similar comment applies to trains- it's nice that the roster is listed in 1.1.1, albeit tersely- the rusting info is a key omission, in practice

so, someday- throughout the game- maybe when you hover-over a private, a train-inventory, a particular major, etc- the help text could show in a popup.  

in general, rails' users might could use a little more care-and-feeding, in this area.   %-}

this seems related to the thread issues here, but, my apologies if it's too tangential- just wanted to slip these comments in.

-  jim
 
On Jan 15, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Erik Vos wrote:

> <IfOption> in GameManager did not work because the game options were not
> passed down the Tag hierarchy from the top in that part of the tree.
> Now they do. I have put the 2-player 70% limit in 1830/Game.xml and it works
> for me.
> Actually, I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional GameOption to enable
> that conditional replacement of 60% by 70%.
> 
> I found that the GameOptions in Game.xml are parsed but not used, so these
> are in fact redundant.
> For a while I'll leave them in. I could use these to validate the selected
> options from the UI. 
> In principle everything that comes from the UI should be validated.
> But in this case the price of having duplicate GameOption specs might be too
> high. 
> 
> While I was at it, I found the GameManager contents a bit messy and have
> added another level by changing the structure of the GameManager component
> by putting <GameParameters> and <GuiClasses> tags around some of the
> existing tags. I would have done something similar for the GameOptions, if
> these wouldn't have turned out redundant.
> Rick, sorry for your documentation work - I'm afraid it will have to
> describe this additional level!
> But I think it's more logical this way.
> 
> BTW in the code I'm also increasingly making a sharp distinction between
> values that exist in the game engine only, and those that are shared with
> the GUI. This should help making a future client/server split easier to do;
> but I think we are still pretty far away from that enhancement.
> 
> Erik.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Westerman [mailto:wes...@pu...] 
> Sent: Wednesday 13 January 2010 21:29
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
> 
> Erik Vos wrote:
>> Hmm, yes, apparently the options cannot be used on the same level
>> where these are defined (although in fact the IfOption tags are processed
>> first).
>> Perhaps these should be lifted out of the Component tags entirely.
>> If you think it's really important, I could have another look at it.
>> 
>   Well, yes, it is important.   Two reasons:
> 
>   First is silly since 2-player 18xx is silly but for many 2-player 
> variants the holding limit is raised from 60% to 70%.
> 
>   Second is important.  As I recall a couple of Tresham's titles ('25, 
> '53 if I have this correct) have a variable share limit depending on the 
> number of players.  So at some point this point will have to be addressed.
> 
>> Erik.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rick Westerman [mailto:wes...@pu...] 
>> Sent: Wednesday 13 January 2010 19:42
>> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>> 
>> Erik Vos wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes, <IfOption> is a generic feature that should be honoured by all Rails
>>> XML files.
>>> 
>>> 
>>   I think I have found one place where it is not.  But there may be a 
>> work-around.
>> 
>>   The place is in the 'GameManager' component within the 'Game.xml' 
>> file.  The GameManager is, of course, where the GameOptions are defined 
>> so this may be a clue to the problem.  Or as usual I might be doing 
>> something wrong.  Anyway I wanted to change the PlayerShareLimit based 
>> on a GameOption.  Could not do it in there.  Other component sections in 
>> Game.xml do accept options.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rick Westerman wes...@pu... Bioinformatics specialist at the 
> Genomics Facility. Phone: (765) 494-0505 FAX: (765) 496-7255 Department 
> of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture 625 Agriculture Mall Drive 
> West Lafayette, IN 47907-2010 Physically located in room S049, WSLR 
> building
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Verizon Developer Community
> Take advantage of Verizon's best-in-class app development support
> A streamlined, 14 day to market process makes app distribution fast and easy
> Join now and get one step closer to millions of Verizon customers
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> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] DiscardTrain action states the wrong player name

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Fixed. Two statements were in the wrong sequence...

Erik. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...] 
Sent: Thursday 14 January 2010 15:05
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: [Rails-devel] DiscardTrain action states the wrong player name

When a corp is forced to discard a train because of phase transition,
the dialog prompting to discard addresses the current player (the
person causing the phase change), rather than the corporation
president, at least it does in 18EU.  Looking at what is going on, I
suspect this would happen in any of the games since it's using generic
DiscardTrain and possibleActions classes.

Phil

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

<IfOption> in GameManager did not work because the game options were not
passed down the Tag hierarchy from the top in that part of the tree.
Now they do. I have put the 2-player 70% limit in 1830/Game.xml and it works
for me.
Actually, I wonder if there shouldn't be an additional GameOption to enable
that conditional replacement of 60% by 70%.

I found that the GameOptions in Game.xml are parsed but not used, so these
are in fact redundant.
For a while I'll leave them in. I could use these to validate the selected
options from the UI. 
In principle everything that comes from the UI should be validated.
But in this case the price of having duplicate GameOption specs might be too
high. 

While I was at it, I found the GameManager contents a bit messy and have
added another level by changing the structure of the GameManager component
by putting <GameParameters> and <GuiClasses> tags around some of the
existing tags. I would have done something similar for the GameOptions, if
these wouldn't have turned out redundant.
Rick, sorry for your documentation work - I'm afraid it will have to
describe this additional level!
But I think it's more logical this way.

BTW in the code I'm also increasingly making a sharp distinction between
values that exist in the game engine only, and those that are shared with
the GUI. This should help making a future client/server split easier to do;
but I think we are still pretty far away from that enhancement.

Erik.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Westerman [mailto:wes...@pu...] 
Sent: Wednesday 13 January 2010 21:29
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml

Erik Vos wrote:
> Hmm, yes, apparently the options cannot be used on the same level
> where these are defined (although in fact the IfOption tags are processed
> first).
> Perhaps these should be lifted out of the Component tags entirely.
> If you think it's really important, I could have another look at it.
>   
   Well, yes, it is important.   Two reasons:

   First is silly since 2-player 18xx is silly but for many 2-player 
variants the holding limit is raised from 60% to 70%.

   Second is important.  As I recall a couple of Tresham's titles ('25, 
'53 if I have this correct) have a variable share limit depending on the 
number of players.  So at some point this point will have to be addressed.

> Erik.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Westerman [mailto:wes...@pu...] 
> Sent: Wednesday 13 January 2010 19:42
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] IfOption in Map.xml
>
> Erik Vos wrote:
>   
>> Yes, <IfOption> is a generic feature that should be honoured by all Rails
>> XML files.
>>   
>>     
>    I think I have found one place where it is not.  But there may be a 
> work-around.
>
>    The place is in the 'GameManager' component within the 'Game.xml' 
> file.  The GameManager is, of course, where the GameOptions are defined 
> so this may be a clue to the problem.  Or as usual I might be doing 
> something wrong.  Anyway I wanted to change the PlayerShareLimit based 
> on a GameOption.  Could not do it in there.  Other component sections in 
> Game.xml do accept options.
>
>
>
>   


-- 
Rick Westerman wes...@pu... Bioinformatics specialist at the 
Genomics Facility. Phone: (765) 494-0505 FAX: (765) 496-7255 Department 
of Horticulture and Landscape Architecture 625 Agriculture Mall Drive 
West Lafayette, IN 47907-2010 Physically located in room S049, WSLR 
building

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Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU: Display bug with the Berlin-Vienna tile

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Such things occur when an exception is thrown on displaying the next tile
below (in this case) Berlin.
It looks like a transient problem.
It would be interesting to know if anything unusual has been logged, or
displayed in the DOS (or whatever) window.

Erik.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...] 
Sent: Friday 15 January 2010 10:27
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: [Rails-devel] 18EU: Display bug with the Berlin-Vienna tile

See attached, it shows the issue quite clearly!

This happened as soon as Berlin was upgraded to Brown and occurs on
two machines (the one I am using at the moment is running JSE 1.6.0_17
if that helps).  If you resize the window, then scroll the map so that
the Berlin tile is not visible in the window, all the tiles to the
right of Berlin reappear.  This is on 1.1.2

Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] 18EU: Display bug with the Berlin-Vienna tile

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

Hmm, weird, this fixed itself later in the turn but I'm not entirely
sure which tile lay/tokenplacement/trainpurchase/thing I did to fix
it....ignroe this I'll try and replicate the behaviour

2010/1/15 Phil Davies <de...@gm...>:
> See attached, it shows the issue quite clearly!
>
> This happened as soon as Berlin was upgraded to Brown and occurs on
> two machines (the one I am using at the moment is running JSE 1.6.0_17
> if that helps).  If you resize the window, then scroll the map so that
> the Berlin tile is not visible in the window, all the tiles to the
> right of Berlin reappear.  This is on 1.1.2
>
> Phil
>

[Rails-devel] 18EU: Display bug with the Berlin-Vienna tile

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

See attached, it shows the issue quite clearly!

This happened as soon as Berlin was upgraded to Brown and occurs on
two machines (the one I am using at the moment is running JSE 1.6.0_17
if that helps).  If you resize the window, then scroll the map so that
the Berlin tile is not visible in the window, all the tiles to the
right of Berlin reappear.  This is on 1.1.2

Phil

Re: [Rails-devel] features: SR autopass, add tile orientation to game report

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

2931159  	 Note tile orientation in report window
(Either the "rot=" shown on the map display, or a descriptive string)
This is for the benefit of people using a logged report to recreate a
trashed game, or for text-only session reports. (This would also be
useful in re-running in-progress games to move up to a newer version
of Rails.)


-- Done. The notation is like H15/NW, where NW is the direction 
where the tilenumber is pointing to. 
Note, that this is the number on tiles as displayed by Rails.
It's not necessarily equal to the direction of that number in
the printed game, so be careful when using this in PBEM games.



I also filed a minor bug report:
2931155  	 1856 typo in N2 on stock table
One of the three $275 boxes shows $272


-- Fixed, as well as the missing upgrades as reported by Rick.

Erik. 

Re: [Rails-devel] Tiles.xml, TileSet.xml, and svg files

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

That would go to another extreme...  XML parsing is not *that* slow, and XML
is at least readable.
 
Erik.


  _____  

From: John A. Tamplin [mailto:ja...@ja...] 
Sent: Wednesday 13 January 2010 20:39
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Tiles.xml, TileSet.xml, and svg files


On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Rick Westerman <wes...@pu...>
wrote:


Once again I hesitate to make suggestions when I am not going to
implement them and may not know what I am talking about ... however ...
during the compile into a jar could the global Tiles file be converted
into a Java-friendly format that is quick to read and parse?   That way
when the program actually runs it just picks up the pre-formatted data
and does not need to do XML parsing.

 
The fastest to load would be serialized Java objects, and you can load the
entire object graph at once.

-- 
John A. Tamplin

Re: [Rails-devel] A few problems with 18EU (this morning, v1.1.1 of Rails)

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...] 
*  The program allows players to buy multiple shares from the bank pool
in one turn.


When? Where? I don't see this (except for brown shares, of course).

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Version numbering

[brett l. <wak...@gm...>]

That's fine by me.   If you want it to be less ambiguous, you can also
do something like "-devel"

---Brett.



On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> On version numbering: I have added a '+' after the version number 1.1.2 as
> coded in Game.java.
> This is to emphasize that it's an experimental version; it will show up in
> any saved files.
>
> Brett, you can remove that '+' on preparing any new release; I will add it
> again later on (or you can do that afterwards if you want).
>
> Erik.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Throughout its 18-year history, RSA Conference consistently attracts the
> world's best and brightest in the field, creating opportunities for Conference
> attendees to learn about information security's most important issues through
> interactions with peers, luminaries and emerging and established companies.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsaconf-dev2dev
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

[Rails-devel] Version numbering

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

On version numbering: I have added a '+' after the version number 1.1.2 as
coded in Game.java.
This is to emphasize that it's an experimental version; it will show up in
any saved files.

Brett, you can remove that '+' on preparing any new release; I will add it
again later on (or you can do that afterwards if you want).

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] A few problems with 18EU (this morning, v1.1.1 of Rails)

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

The below innocent-looking complaint has led me to completely change 
the way window visibility is controlled. Before, it was hard-coded
with each round type, and as tradihg shares is done in a StockRound
subclass (even if it happens in an OperatingRound), the stock round 
window visiblity rules applied.

There is now a new class GUIHints, in which the game engine can put 
flags to suggest visibility changes to the GUI, in a way that not only 
visiblity but also stack order can be controlled. I have tried to make
this as little intrusive as I could; only a new round will do these
settings, overriding any player changes. (But be aware that emergency
share selling and treasury share trading count as separate rounds in 
Rails).

Talking about visibility, the new nonmodal popups will now always
stay on top of the other windows (but can of course be moved aside).
I found it annoying that clicking any other window made these dialogs
disappear from sight.

There are several more small behind-the-scenes changes.

Erik.

----
*  At the end of each operating turn, the map annoyingly disappears
while I'm asked whether the company that just operated wants to buy or
sell its own shares.  Even if no such actions are possible (because all
the shares are owned by players, or the company has no treasury stock
and doesn't have the money to buy a share), it happens anyway.