rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

Re: [Rails-devel] Start Items changes

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

It assumes that a bid of zero means that the player has not made a bid on
that item, and are therefore not "active" in an auction.  So it allows it,
but the player is then left out.


On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:

> Why does it now allow a bid of zero? Excuse my ignorance.
>
> It is easy to add a test case for the 18EU again, at least for the
> initial auction, so I recommend to go ahead with a).
>
> Please be not too afraid to change core classes. There are only a few
> cases to be really careful, as they are complex, easy to break and/or
> there no automated tests:
>
> A) Algorithm package (complex, easy to break, no automated tests)
> B) UI classes (easy to break, no automated tests)
> C) Action classes (easy to break)
>
>
> On 08/24/2014 06:05 AM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> > The current implementation of StartItem doesn't allow a bid of 0.  I
> > made a StartItem_1862 which does allow it - but there's no mechanism to
> > specify the class of a start item in the XML.  So I could go a couple
> > ways with this:
> >
> > a)  Put the differences from StartItem_1862 into StartItem.  I can then
> > run the tests to make sure I didn't break other games, but I worry a bit
> > because there are mentions of 18EU in StartItem, but no tests for 18EU.
> >
> > b)  Add the ability to specify the class for each StartItem in the XML.
> >
> > Is there a preference for which way I should go with this?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
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> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >
>
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Start Items changes

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Why does it now allow a bid of zero? Excuse my ignorance.

It is easy to add a test case for the 18EU again, at least for the 
initial auction, so I recommend to go ahead with a).

Please be not too afraid to change core classes. There are only a few 
cases to be really careful, as they are complex, easy to break and/or 
there no automated tests:

A) Algorithm package (complex, easy to break, no automated tests)
B) UI classes (easy to break, no automated tests)
C) Action classes (easy to break)


On 08/24/2014 06:05 AM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> The current implementation of StartItem doesn't allow a bid of 0.  I
> made a StartItem_1862 which does allow it - but there's no mechanism to
> specify the class of a start item in the XML.  So I could go a couple
> ways with this:
>
> a)  Put the differences from StartItem_1862 into StartItem.  I can then
> run the tests to make sure I didn't break other games, but I worry a bit
> because there are mentions of 18EU in StartItem, but no tests for 18EU.
>
> b)  Add the ability to specify the class for each StartItem in the XML.
>
> Is there a preference for which way I should go with this?
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

[Rails-devel] Start Items changes

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

The current implementation of StartItem doesn't allow a bid of 0.  I made a
StartItem_1862 which does allow it - but there's no mechanism to specify
the class of a start item in the XML.  So I could go a couple ways with
this:

a)  Put the differences from StartItem_1862 into StartItem.  I can then run
the tests to make sure I didn't break other games, but I worry a bit
because there are mentions of 18EU in StartItem, but no tests for 18EU.

b)  Add the ability to specify the class for each StartItem in the XML.

Is there a preference for which way I should go with this?

Mike

Re: [Rails-devel] Design guidance

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

Maybe what I'll do at this point is put off coding that choosing.  I'll
capture that I need to come back to it and move on.  There's a lot of other
things that need to be done.

Mike


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:

> Keep it as simple as possible for yourself, as the refactoring will
> touch that code anyway.
>
> On 08/22/2014 04:07 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> > Regarding those StartItems - in addition to selecting a par price, the
> > winner of the auction can choose how many shares to buy of the company
> > they are founding.  Is that something I should be adding to the general
> > "StartItem/Rounds" code or should I make that be in 1862-specific code?
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Michael Alexander
> > <out...@gm... <mailto:out...@gm...>> wrote:
> >
> >     Where I was creating them was during the initialization of the start
> >     round - so I was thinking that it should work during a load -
> >     although admittedly I didn't test it.  In any case, I can certainly
> >     change it to create all the possible ones at startup.
> >
> >     Thank you,
> >
> >     Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...
> >     <mailto:ste...@we...>> wrote:
> >
> >         Mike:
> >         I cannot recommend to create StartItems on the fly, as all of
> >         them have
> >         to be available at the start of the game to allow reloading a
> >         saved game
> >         file.
> >
> >         One of the troubles of using the serialization process of Java
> for
> >         storing the game is the fact that all objects have to be either
> >         created
> >         before game start or can be created during the load process. All
> >         this
> >         happens before any action gets replayed.
> >
> >         This can be changed as soon as we change it to a format that can
> be
> >         loaded step by step.
> >
> >         My suggestion is that you create all possible StartItem at game
> >         creation
> >         (maybe even preferable by specific code instead of xml) and then
> for
> >         each Parliament Round collect the available StartItems for that
> >         round.
> >
> >         I am not really happy about the implementation to reserve
> >         certificates
> >         inside StartItem, so expect something to change there in the
> >         not-so-far
> >         future. StartRounds will be first Round types to be changed as
> >         soon as I
> >         have time for that (as soon as 2.0 is out of the door).
> >
> >         Thus keep it simple for the time being and do not care about UI
> >         issues
> >         for the time being.
> >
> >         Stefan
> >
> >
> >         Remark:
> >         Another issue I realized that there is still one place that
> >         there is one
> >         class variable remaining: "startItemMap" of StartItem class.
> >         This will be changed soon, however it will not have any
> >         consequence to
> >         your problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >         On 08/22/2014 02:36 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> >          > I'm using the existing "StartRound" classes for the
> >         Parliament Rounds
> >          > for 1862.  It seems to be ok to create StartItems on the fly
> >         based on
> >          > what companies are available, dropping the Presidencies of
> >         each of those
> >          > companies into the appropriate StartItem.  My only concern is
> >         that each
> >          > of those companies then shows up in the Status Panel as
> >         having "70%" in
> >          > the IPO, which I think might be confusing.
> >          >
> >          > I'm thinking of making "proxy certs" to put into the
> >         StartItems and
> >          > moving the real ones inside the "buy" function.  Is that a
> >         reasonable
> >          > approach?
> >          >
> >          > Mike
> >          >
> >          >
> >          >
> >
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >          > Slashdot TV.
> >          > Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> >          > http://tv.slashdot.org/
> >          >
> >          >
> >          >
> >          > _______________________________________________
> >          > Rails-devel mailing list
> >          > Rai...@li...
> >         <mailto:Rai...@li...>
> >          > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >          >
> >
> >
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >         Slashdot TV.
> >         Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> >         http://tv.slashdot.org/
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         Rails-devel mailing list
> >         Rai...@li...
> >         <mailto:Rai...@li...>
> >         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Slashdot TV.
> > Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> > http://tv.slashdot.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >
>
>
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Re: [Rails-devel] Design guidance

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Keep it as simple as possible for yourself, as the refactoring will 
touch that code anyway.

On 08/22/2014 04:07 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> Regarding those StartItems - in addition to selecting a par price, the
> winner of the auction can choose how many shares to buy of the company
> they are founding.  Is that something I should be adding to the general
> "StartItem/Rounds" code or should I make that be in 1862-specific code?
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Michael Alexander
> <out...@gm... <mailto:out...@gm...>> wrote:
>
>     Where I was creating them was during the initialization of the start
>     round - so I was thinking that it should work during a load -
>     although admittedly I didn't test it.  In any case, I can certainly
>     change it to create all the possible ones at startup.
>
>     Thank you,
>
>     Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>     On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...
>     <mailto:ste...@we...>> wrote:
>
>         Mike:
>         I cannot recommend to create StartItems on the fly, as all of
>         them have
>         to be available at the start of the game to allow reloading a
>         saved game
>         file.
>
>         One of the troubles of using the serialization process of Java for
>         storing the game is the fact that all objects have to be either
>         created
>         before game start or can be created during the load process. All
>         this
>         happens before any action gets replayed.
>
>         This can be changed as soon as we change it to a format that can be
>         loaded step by step.
>
>         My suggestion is that you create all possible StartItem at game
>         creation
>         (maybe even preferable by specific code instead of xml) and then for
>         each Parliament Round collect the available StartItems for that
>         round.
>
>         I am not really happy about the implementation to reserve
>         certificates
>         inside StartItem, so expect something to change there in the
>         not-so-far
>         future. StartRounds will be first Round types to be changed as
>         soon as I
>         have time for that (as soon as 2.0 is out of the door).
>
>         Thus keep it simple for the time being and do not care about UI
>         issues
>         for the time being.
>
>         Stefan
>
>
>         Remark:
>         Another issue I realized that there is still one place that
>         there is one
>         class variable remaining: "startItemMap" of StartItem class.
>         This will be changed soon, however it will not have any
>         consequence to
>         your problem.
>
>
>
>         On 08/22/2014 02:36 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
>          > I'm using the existing "StartRound" classes for the
>         Parliament Rounds
>          > for 1862.  It seems to be ok to create StartItems on the fly
>         based on
>          > what companies are available, dropping the Presidencies of
>         each of those
>          > companies into the appropriate StartItem.  My only concern is
>         that each
>          > of those companies then shows up in the Status Panel as
>         having "70%" in
>          > the IPO, which I think might be confusing.
>          >
>          > I'm thinking of making "proxy certs" to put into the
>         StartItems and
>          > moving the real ones inside the "buy" function.  Is that a
>         reasonable
>          > approach?
>          >
>          > Mike
>          >
>          >
>          >
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>          > Slashdot TV.
>          > Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
>          > http://tv.slashdot.org/
>          >
>          >
>          >
>          > _______________________________________________
>          > Rails-devel mailing list
>          > Rai...@li...
>         <mailto:Rai...@li...>
>          > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>          >
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Slashdot TV.
>         Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
>         http://tv.slashdot.org/
>         _______________________________________________
>         Rails-devel mailing list
>         Rai...@li...
>         <mailto:Rai...@li...>
>         https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Code duplication (in 1837 and in general)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Martin:
No issue, due to your questions I was looking into your branch and 
realized that problem. I admit that happened in 1880 as well, but there 
are other places and there have been many occasions in Rails before.

So most likely you work differently than me, as soon as I realize that I 
start copying code, I begin to think about factoring things out.

Keep another thing in mind: You will not be able to load game files that 
have changed class names for actions. So if you want to keep save files 
working you are stuck with existing action class names.

This will hold true until we get rid of the Java serialization process 
and even then it will take some work to ensure backward compatibility.

Stefan


On 08/21/2014 05:23 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
> Stefan,
> let me answer directly:
>
> The current code is far from finished, thats one reason why its not yet
> in rails_2_develop. Its pushed to the current branch with 2 goals: To be
> able to work on different machines and to get feedback on ealry ideas.
>
> Thanks for the feedback though.
>
> I agree with you that the goal should be to have as least code as
> possible and one duplicated without real purpose.
>
> The (or rather my ) design goal for the formation round is to have one
> "NationalFormationRound"-Class that can work for (1835,1837,1856(?),
> 18OE, and maybe more). I am way afar from that goal in the moment but
> would like to be able to test certain game mechanics after
> implementation, thats the reason why i copied the code the way it is
> currently.
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
>
> Am 21.08.14 um 16:34 schrieb Stefan Frey:
>> Martin,
>> could you please avoid to duplicate code and classes that differentiate
>> only a single parameter? Current example are those classes related to
>> Folding and Merging into the three national railways of 1837.
>>
>> *** General remark for all contributors
>> (so currently mainly Martin and Alexander):
>>
>>    From my experience now, one thing that makes refactoring and rewriting
>> of Rails somehow difficult and tedious is code duplication in the past.
>>
>> To some degree this is always unavoidable, as this is the easiest way to
>> ensure that code can be changed without breaking existing code.
>>
>> However later on it is difficult to merge the code again as you have to
>> check carefully if the code is only copied or if the code was changed
>> afterwards.
>>
>> So please think double, before you copy code from existing classes or if
>> there other ways to ensure your goal.
>>
>> I know it is especially difficult for the Round classes as they are
>> combining all kind of functionality. I will break those classes into
>> smaller bits as soon as Rails 2.0 is out of its door, however the more
>> code in existing Round classes exists, it will get more work to break
>> them up.
>>
>> Feel free to comment.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Slashdot TV.
>> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
>> http://tv.slashdot.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Rails-devel] Design guidance

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

Regarding those StartItems - in addition to selecting a par price, the
winner of the auction can choose how many shares to buy of the company they
are founding.  Is that something I should be adding to the general
"StartItem/Rounds" code or should I make that be in 1862-specific code?


On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 10:04 AM, Michael Alexander <out...@gm...
> wrote:

> Where I was creating them was during the initialization of the start round
> - so I was thinking that it should work during a load - although admittedly
> I didn't test it.  In any case, I can certainly change it to create all the
> possible ones at startup.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
>
>> Mike:
>> I cannot recommend to create StartItems on the fly, as all of them have
>> to be available at the start of the game to allow reloading a saved game
>> file.
>>
>> One of the troubles of using the serialization process of Java for
>> storing the game is the fact that all objects have to be either created
>> before game start or can be created during the load process. All this
>> happens before any action gets replayed.
>>
>> This can be changed as soon as we change it to a format that can be
>> loaded step by step.
>>
>> My suggestion is that you create all possible StartItem at game creation
>> (maybe even preferable by specific code instead of xml) and then for
>> each Parliament Round collect the available StartItems for that round.
>>
>> I am not really happy about the implementation to reserve certificates
>> inside StartItem, so expect something to change there in the not-so-far
>> future. StartRounds will be first Round types to be changed as soon as I
>> have time for that (as soon as 2.0 is out of the door).
>>
>> Thus keep it simple for the time being and do not care about UI issues
>> for the time being.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> Remark:
>> Another issue I realized that there is still one place that there is one
>> class variable remaining: "startItemMap" of StartItem class.
>> This will be changed soon, however it will not have any consequence to
>> your problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08/22/2014 02:36 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
>> > I'm using the existing "StartRound" classes for the Parliament Rounds
>> > for 1862.  It seems to be ok to create StartItems on the fly based on
>> > what companies are available, dropping the Presidencies of each of those
>> > companies into the appropriate StartItem.  My only concern is that each
>> > of those companies then shows up in the Status Panel as having "70%" in
>> > the IPO, which I think might be confusing.
>> >
>> > I'm thinking of making "proxy certs" to put into the StartItems and
>> > moving the real ones inside the "buy" function.  Is that a reasonable
>> > approach?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Slashdot TV.
>> > Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
>> > http://tv.slashdot.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Rails-devel mailing list
>> > Rai...@li...
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Slashdot TV.
>> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
>> http://tv.slashdot.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Design guidance

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

Where I was creating them was during the initialization of the start round
- so I was thinking that it should work during a load - although admittedly
I didn't test it.  In any case, I can certainly change it to create all the
possible ones at startup.

Thank you,

Mike





On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:

> Mike:
> I cannot recommend to create StartItems on the fly, as all of them have
> to be available at the start of the game to allow reloading a saved game
> file.
>
> One of the troubles of using the serialization process of Java for
> storing the game is the fact that all objects have to be either created
> before game start or can be created during the load process. All this
> happens before any action gets replayed.
>
> This can be changed as soon as we change it to a format that can be
> loaded step by step.
>
> My suggestion is that you create all possible StartItem at game creation
> (maybe even preferable by specific code instead of xml) and then for
> each Parliament Round collect the available StartItems for that round.
>
> I am not really happy about the implementation to reserve certificates
> inside StartItem, so expect something to change there in the not-so-far
> future. StartRounds will be first Round types to be changed as soon as I
> have time for that (as soon as 2.0 is out of the door).
>
> Thus keep it simple for the time being and do not care about UI issues
> for the time being.
>
> Stefan
>
>
> Remark:
> Another issue I realized that there is still one place that there is one
> class variable remaining: "startItemMap" of StartItem class.
> This will be changed soon, however it will not have any consequence to
> your problem.
>
>
>
> On 08/22/2014 02:36 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> > I'm using the existing "StartRound" classes for the Parliament Rounds
> > for 1862.  It seems to be ok to create StartItems on the fly based on
> > what companies are available, dropping the Presidencies of each of those
> > companies into the appropriate StartItem.  My only concern is that each
> > of those companies then shows up in the Status Panel as having "70%" in
> > the IPO, which I think might be confusing.
> >
> > I'm thinking of making "proxy certs" to put into the StartItems and
> > moving the real ones inside the "buy" function.  Is that a reasonable
> > approach?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Slashdot TV.
> > Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> > http://tv.slashdot.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > Rai...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Design guidance

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Mike:
I cannot recommend to create StartItems on the fly, as all of them have 
to be available at the start of the game to allow reloading a saved game 
file.

One of the troubles of using the serialization process of Java for 
storing the game is the fact that all objects have to be either created 
before game start or can be created during the load process. All this 
happens before any action gets replayed.

This can be changed as soon as we change it to a format that can be 
loaded step by step.

My suggestion is that you create all possible StartItem at game creation 
(maybe even preferable by specific code instead of xml) and then for 
each Parliament Round collect the available StartItems for that round.

I am not really happy about the implementation to reserve certificates 
inside StartItem, so expect something to change there in the not-so-far 
future. StartRounds will be first Round types to be changed as soon as I 
have time for that (as soon as 2.0 is out of the door).

Thus keep it simple for the time being and do not care about UI issues 
for the time being.

Stefan


Remark:
Another issue I realized that there is still one place that there is one 
class variable remaining: "startItemMap" of StartItem class.
This will be changed soon, however it will not have any consequence to 
your problem.



On 08/22/2014 02:36 PM, Michael Alexander wrote:
> I'm using the existing "StartRound" classes for the Parliament Rounds
> for 1862.  It seems to be ok to create StartItems on the fly based on
> what companies are available, dropping the Presidencies of each of those
> companies into the appropriate StartItem.  My only concern is that each
> of those companies then shows up in the Status Panel as having "70%" in
> the IPO, which I think might be confusing.
>
> I'm thinking of making "proxy certs" to put into the StartItems and
> moving the real ones inside the "buy" function.  Is that a reasonable
> approach?
>
> Mike
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

[Rails-devel] Design guidance

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

I'm using the existing "StartRound" classes for the Parliament Rounds for
1862.  It seems to be ok to create StartItems on the fly based on what
companies are available, dropping the Presidencies of each of those
companies into the appropriate StartItem.  My only concern is that each of
those companies then shows up in the Status Panel as having "70%" in the
IPO, which I think might be confusing.

I'm thinking of making "proxy certs" to put into the StartItems and moving
the real ones inside the "buy" function.  Is that a reasonable approach?

Mike

Re: [Rails-devel] FreightTrain Handling in 1837

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Martin, to give you some hints:

For the interaction between Rails and the revenue code the class to 
start with is RevenueAdapter, as it converts between the Rails and the 
revenue data structures.

A similar relation between Rails to the code to generate the network 
graph exists with NetworkAdapter.


1) For the coal minors the current maximization code is enough, as they 
have one unique optimal run.

To access the optimal run, use getOptimalRun() in RevenueAdapter which 
returns a RevenueTrainRun object that has all information on the optimal 
run.

However it only returns NetworkVertices which are objects of the 
algorithm package only. However it is possible to convert them to Rails 
hex objects using methods provided in NetworkVertex.

So I recommend writing a getAsHexes() method for RevenueTrainRun() and 
use the result of that to figure out the additional revenue for the coal 
mine.

2) For the majors it is more difficult, as the owning director might 
choose to forfeit some company dividend for increased mine payout.

In a first step you could use the same approach as for the minors and 
allow the player to manually adjust to the result he/she prefers.

In a second step the more demanding two-dimensional optimization path 
for company dividend/mine income could be generated. However this seems 
to be something that takes a little more work and is not per-requisite 
to be able to play 1837 with Rails.

Hope this helps, please feel free to come up with questions,
Stefan


On 08/21/2014 05:13 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
> HI Stefan,
>
> i had reverted the commits today, cause i decided to use a different
> approach without an additional ORAction.
>
> My vector of approach would have been as you said to list a number of
> different revenues with a special revenue derived from the coal trains
> for the president to choose and decide, but since my understand of your
> revenue code is very basic that will take some time to find its way, i
> am afraid.
>
> i found the display code in NetworkGraph.visualize and from there went
> backwards to get more information :)
>
> But again, lots of obstacles (like the vertices for the mines and how to
> treat them with out duplicating code).
>
> Regards
> Martin
>
> Am 21.08.14 um 16:15 schrieb Stefan Frey:
>> Martin:
>>
>> I did take a short glance on your code, however I have seen nothing
>> related to freight trains. Maybe you have not pushed your changes?
>>
>> I would not assume that a new OR Action is required, more like adding
>> new possibilities to the existing one.
>>
>> Yes I agree the activity is very similar to the 1853 revenue and payout
>> problem. I have thought about that previously and it is definite a
>> two-dimensional problem, so the player in the general case (in 1837 at
>> least for a major that can access more than one mine) should be able to
>> choose between different optimization results. (E.g. one maximum run is
>> 320 revenue and 60 from mines, another is 300 revenue, however 80 from
>> mines). So I would present the player a list of possible results and
>> having him/her choose from it.
>>
>> For sure, the results of the run are shown already graphically and as a
>> list of hexes, so this is available.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
>> On 08/19/2014 05:37 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
>>> Hello Stefan,
>>>
>>> i think my approach to the freight train problem in 1837 by adding
>>> another OR Action might be overkill at least for 1837, but anyway might
>>> be needed for 1853... But thats another story that time might tell.
>>>
>>> Question to the Master of the network revenue code :);
>>>
>>> Do we get a list of vistited maphexes (vertices) by each train ? So that
>>> one could add a step to the Payout and add the value of a visited coal
>>> mine again to the company specific payout ?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>>> Rai...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Slashdot TV.
>> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
>> http://tv.slashdot.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Code duplication (in 1837 and in general)

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

Stefan,
let me answer directly:

The current code is far from finished, thats one reason why its not yet 
in rails_2_develop. Its pushed to the current branch with 2 goals: To be 
able to work on different machines and to get feedback on ealry ideas.

Thanks for the feedback though.

I agree with you that the goal should be to have as least code as 
possible and one duplicated without real purpose.

The (or rather my ) design goal for the formation round is to have one 
"NationalFormationRound"-Class that can work for (1835,1837,1856(?), 
18OE, and maybe more). I am way afar from that goal in the moment but 
would like to be able to test certain game mechanics after 
implementation, thats the reason why i copied the code the way it is 
currently.

Regards,
Martin



Am 21.08.14 um 16:34 schrieb Stefan Frey:
> Martin,
> could you please avoid to duplicate code and classes that differentiate
> only a single parameter? Current example are those classes related to
> Folding and Merging into the three national railways of 1837.
>
> *** General remark for all contributors
> (so currently mainly Martin and Alexander):
>
>   From my experience now, one thing that makes refactoring and rewriting
> of Rails somehow difficult and tedious is code duplication in the past.
>
> To some degree this is always unavoidable, as this is the easiest way to
> ensure that code can be changed without breaking existing code.
>
> However later on it is difficult to merge the code again as you have to
> check carefully if the code is only copied or if the code was changed
> afterwards.
>
> So please think double, before you copy code from existing classes or if
> there other ways to ensure your goal.
>
> I know it is especially difficult for the Round classes as they are
> combining all kind of functionality. I will break those classes into
> smaller bits as soon as Rails 2.0 is out of its door, however the more
> code in existing Round classes exists, it will get more work to break
> them up.
>
> Feel free to comment.
>
> Stefan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] FreightTrain Handling in 1837

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

HI Stefan,

i had reverted the commits today, cause i decided to use a different 
approach without an additional ORAction.

My vector of approach would have been as you said to list a number of 
different revenues with a special revenue derived from the coal trains 
for the president to choose and decide, but since my understand of your 
revenue code is very basic that will take some time to find its way, i 
am afraid.

i found the display code in NetworkGraph.visualize and from there went 
backwards to get more information :)

But again, lots of obstacles (like the vertices for the mines and how to 
treat them with out duplicating code).

Regards
Martin

Am 21.08.14 um 16:15 schrieb Stefan Frey:
> Martin:
>
> I did take a short glance on your code, however I have seen nothing
> related to freight trains. Maybe you have not pushed your changes?
>
> I would not assume that a new OR Action is required, more like adding
> new possibilities to the existing one.
>
> Yes I agree the activity is very similar to the 1853 revenue and payout
> problem. I have thought about that previously and it is definite a
> two-dimensional problem, so the player in the general case (in 1837 at
> least for a major that can access more than one mine) should be able to
> choose between different optimization results. (E.g. one maximum run is
> 320 revenue and 60 from mines, another is 300 revenue, however 80 from
> mines). So I would present the player a list of possible results and
> having him/her choose from it.
>
> For sure, the results of the run are shown already graphically and as a
> list of hexes, so this is available.
>
> Stefan
>
>
> On 08/19/2014 05:37 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
>> Hello Stefan,
>>
>> i think my approach to the freight train problem in 1837 by adding
>> another OR Action might be overkill at least for 1837, but anyway might
>> be needed for 1853... But thats another story that time might tell.
>>
>> Question to the Master of the network revenue code :);
>>
>> Do we get a list of vistited maphexes (vertices) by each train ? So that
>> one could add a step to the Payout and add the value of a visited coal
>> mine again to the company specific payout ?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Code duplication (in 1837 and in general)

[Michael A. <out...@gm...>]

That makes a lot of sense to me.  One of the reason I haven't pushed the
Parliament Round stuff back up yet was because what I originally wrote had
a lot of "almost duplicate" code that I wanted to get rid of.

Mike


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:

> Martin,
> could you please avoid to duplicate code and classes that differentiate
> only a single parameter? Current example are those classes related to
> Folding and Merging into the three national railways of 1837.
>
> *** General remark for all contributors
> (so currently mainly Martin and Alexander):
>
>  From my experience now, one thing that makes refactoring and rewriting
> of Rails somehow difficult and tedious is code duplication in the past.
>
> To some degree this is always unavoidable, as this is the easiest way to
> ensure that code can be changed without breaking existing code.
>
> However later on it is difficult to merge the code again as you have to
> check carefully if the code is only copied or if the code was changed
> afterwards.
>
> So please think double, before you copy code from existing classes or if
> there other ways to ensure your goal.
>
> I know it is especially difficult for the Round classes as they are
> combining all kind of functionality. I will break those classes into
> smaller bits as soon as Rails 2.0 is out of its door, however the more
> code in existing Round classes exists, it will get more work to break
> them up.
>
> Feel free to comment.
>
> Stefan
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

[Rails-devel] Code duplication (in 1837 and in general)

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Martin,
could you please avoid to duplicate code and classes that differentiate 
only a single parameter? Current example are those classes related to 
Folding and Merging into the three national railways of 1837.

*** General remark for all contributors
(so currently mainly Martin and Alexander):

 From my experience now, one thing that makes refactoring and rewriting 
of Rails somehow difficult and tedious is code duplication in the past.

To some degree this is always unavoidable, as this is the easiest way to 
ensure that code can be changed without breaking existing code.

However later on it is difficult to merge the code again as you have to 
check carefully if the code is only copied or if the code was changed 
afterwards.

So please think double, before you copy code from existing classes or if 
there other ways to ensure your goal.

I know it is especially difficult for the Round classes as they are 
combining all kind of functionality. I will break those classes into 
smaller bits as soon as Rails 2.0 is out of its door, however the more 
code in existing Round classes exists, it will get more work to break 
them up.

Feel free to comment.

Stefan

Re: [Rails-devel] FreightTrain Handling in 1837

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Martin:

I did take a short glance on your code, however I have seen nothing 
related to freight trains. Maybe you have not pushed your changes?

I would not assume that a new OR Action is required, more like adding 
new possibilities to the existing one.

Yes I agree the activity is very similar to the 1853 revenue and payout 
problem. I have thought about that previously and it is definite a 
two-dimensional problem, so the player in the general case (in 1837 at 
least for a major that can access more than one mine) should be able to 
choose between different optimization results. (E.g. one maximum run is 
320 revenue and 60 from mines, another is 300 revenue, however 80 from 
mines). So I would present the player a list of possible results and 
having him/her choose from it.

For sure, the results of the run are shown already graphically and as a 
list of hexes, so this is available.

Stefan


On 08/19/2014 05:37 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
> Hello Stefan,
>
> i think my approach to the freight train problem in 1837 by adding
> another OR Action might be overkill at least for 1837, but anyway might
> be needed for 1853... But thats another story that time might tell.
>
> Question to the Master of the network revenue code :);
>
> Do we get a list of vistited maphexes (vertices) by each train ? So that
> one could add a step to the Payout and add the value of a visited coal
> mine again to the company specific payout ?
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Babysteps with 1837

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

Good morning John,

1837 is not supported in 1.8.10 (i'll have to remove that reference in a 
later release.

My work has been based on Eriks and yours in Stefans 2.0 recoded base.

To see and actually play (the startround works) youll need to get my 
developement branch (mbr_2_develop_1837) from the git repository in your 
favorite IDE (Eclipse or Netbeans or...) and run the game from the IDE.

Suggestions 1-3 have been adapted, thanks,

Suggestion #4 will lead to more effort because we then have new handmade 
tiles as the current tile generating process doesnt support that 
graphical fancyness :). I am not yet sure if we will not go to offboard 
hexes sooner or later for the mine tiles anyway but so far a different 
approach posted by Stefan 2 years ago seems to be the easier way.

But to implement the G-Trains support in the revenue system i need 
Stefans Support anyway :).

I would opt for the set of vertexes/mutexes added to map.XML as 
discussed between Erik and Stefan in May 2012.

Suggestion 5 i have no clue how to realise.
Suggestion 6 leads to another set of handmade tiles i would love to 
avoid....

The coordination set is based on the same set used for all maps of this 
type E/W orientated maps with A being the even row. I could switch that 
to B becoming the even row whih of course would require to alter the map 
definition... Is that really that much of a problem ?

Thanks again for your feedback.

Martin



Am 20.08.14 um 01:02 schrieb John David Galt:
> On 2014-07-21 10:35, Martin Brumm wrote:
>> Good day to whom it may concern,
>>
>> the attached screenshot has been done on my devbranch off 2.0
> That's what happened.  1837 is listed in the start menu in 1.8.10, but
> when I try to start a game it just displays a "loading - 0%" splash
> screen and sits there until I quit.
>
> Suggested changes to your map:
>
> (1) The EHS home tile (F27) needs to be rotated 60 deg clockwise, so the
> track from the mine points SE and the sharp curve points E and NE.
>
> (2) Add an empty pale green hex at C36.
>
> (3) Hexes such as G14 (two cities with no letter, for tile #404) should
> be pale green.  A yellow tile will be built there.  I assume you copied
> 1830's yellow OO hex.
>
> (4) Show mines as a white square (with room for the company name), and
> show their payouts as if the space were a red offboard.  When the coal
> company closes, its name should go away (I'm not sure how to implement
> this, maybe as a tile upgrade?)
>
> (5) Hide the names of national companies while minor #1 is active, so
> the names don't clobber each other.  1835 has this problem, too.
>
> (6) Show the boundary of Italy in some way.  I would do this by making
> the unbuilt hexes pale pink (since the red line used on Lonny's original
> is likely to be mis-read as an impassable hex side).
>
> (7) We may or may not want to keep the coordinate system where the first
> column is 2.  (Lonny's original map does not have numbered rows/columns.
> You've used the system from David Reed's "The Depot".  Steve Thomas,
> though, makes the first column 1, sometimes leading to off-by-one errors
> when people send in moves for his PBM games.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Slashdot TV.
> Video for Nerds.  Stuff that matters.
> http://tv.slashdot.org/
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Babysteps with 1837

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2014-07-21 10:35, Martin Brumm wrote:
> Good day to whom it may concern,
> 
> the attached screenshot has been done on my devbranch off 2.0

That's what happened.  1837 is listed in the start menu in 1.8.10, but
when I try to start a game it just displays a "loading - 0%" splash
screen and sits there until I quit.

Suggested changes to your map:

(1) The EHS home tile (F27) needs to be rotated 60 deg clockwise, so the
track from the mine points SE and the sharp curve points E and NE.

(2) Add an empty pale green hex at C36.

(3) Hexes such as G14 (two cities with no letter, for tile #404) should
be pale green.  A yellow tile will be built there.  I assume you copied
1830's yellow OO hex.

(4) Show mines as a white square (with room for the company name), and
show their payouts as if the space were a red offboard.  When the coal
company closes, its name should go away (I'm not sure how to implement
this, maybe as a tile upgrade?)

(5) Hide the names of national companies while minor #1 is active, so
the names don't clobber each other.  1835 has this problem, too.

(6) Show the boundary of Italy in some way.  I would do this by making
the unbuilt hexes pale pink (since the red line used on Lonny's original
is likely to be mis-read as an impassable hex side).

(7) We may or may not want to keep the coordinate system where the first
column is 2.  (Lonny's original map does not have numbered rows/columns.
You've used the system from David Reed's "The Depot".  Steve Thomas,
though, makes the first column 1, sometimes leading to off-by-one errors
when people send in moves for his PBM games.)

[Rails-devel] FreightTrain Handling in 1837

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

Hello Stefan,

i think my approach to the freight train problem in 1837 by adding 
another OR Action might be overkill at least for 1837, but anyway might 
be needed for 1853... But thats another story that time might tell.

Question to the Master of the network revenue code :);

Do we get a list of vistited maphexes (vertices) by each train ? So that 
one could add a step to the Payout and add the value of a visited coal 
mine again to the company specific payout ?

Regards,
Martin

Re: [Rails-devel] Map Modifcations based on train phases

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2014-08-18 12:58, Chris Shaffer wrote:
> I think you'll want to account for hexes being removed too, as in the
> Florida Keys in 18FL or that one area in the southwest of the 1841
> map.

Why wouldn't auto-laying a blank gray tile accomplish that?

Re: [Rails-devel] Map Modifcations based on train phases

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Ah, and reading John's message, I see that you've already done that,
by laying grey blank hexes. Ignore my peanut gallery.

--
Chris

Warning! NSA analysts could be reading this email. And because there's
hardly any accountability, we have no idea how they may use it. If
that bothers you, click here to do something about it.


On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
> I think you'll want to account for hexes being removed too, as in the
> Florida Keys in 18FL or that one area in the southwest of the 1841
> map.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Warning! NSA analysts could be reading this email. And because there's
> hardly any accountability, we have no idea how they may use it. If
> that bothers you, click here to do something about it.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:03 PM, John David Galt
> <jd...@di...> wrote:
>> On 2014-08-18 03:16, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> do we have sofar any mechanismn in place to recreate the map based on
>>> different Phases ?
>>>
>>> In particular 1837 has two map changing phases (where as after the first
>>> purchased 3 train Bosnia-Herzogovina becomes eglible for tile lays and
>>> after the first 4 train italy isnt available anymore besides Bozen that
>>> gets an automatic upgrade/replacement).
>>
>> Here is how I had in mind to implement that:
>>
>> *  Add to the XML "Hex" object, an option specifying that a particular
>> tile (by number and direction) be laid there when a specified phase change
>> occurs.  A positive tile number means it is taken from the unused tile
>> supply; if negative we don't bother, but just treat it as if preprinted.
>> In either case any existing tile in the hex (and any tokens if not
>> accommodated on the new tile) go back to the supply (again, unless the
>> tile number is negative).
>>
>> *  Bosnia - all hexes begin with a "preprinted blank gray tile with a
>> negative number" (use a version with a city for the BH home, so it will
>> show).  At phase 3 we use the new feature to auto-lay a pale green "tile"
>> with a negative number on each hex.  It can then be upgraded.
>>
>> *  Italy - all hexes begin normally, but at phase 4 they all get a blank
>> gray tile auto-laid on them, wiping everything out.  Even cities are not
>> preserved.  The green tile for Bozen also gets auto-laid.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> Rai...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Map Modifcations based on train phases

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

I think you'll want to account for hexes being removed too, as in the
Florida Keys in 18FL or that one area in the southwest of the 1841
map.

--
Chris

Warning! NSA analysts could be reading this email. And because there's
hardly any accountability, we have no idea how they may use it. If
that bothers you, click here to do something about it.


On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:03 PM, John David Galt
<jd...@di...> wrote:
> On 2014-08-18 03:16, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> do we have sofar any mechanismn in place to recreate the map based on
>> different Phases ?
>>
>> In particular 1837 has two map changing phases (where as after the first
>> purchased 3 train Bosnia-Herzogovina becomes eglible for tile lays and
>> after the first 4 train italy isnt available anymore besides Bozen that
>> gets an automatic upgrade/replacement).
>
> Here is how I had in mind to implement that:
>
> *  Add to the XML "Hex" object, an option specifying that a particular
> tile (by number and direction) be laid there when a specified phase change
> occurs.  A positive tile number means it is taken from the unused tile
> supply; if negative we don't bother, but just treat it as if preprinted.
> In either case any existing tile in the hex (and any tokens if not
> accommodated on the new tile) go back to the supply (again, unless the
> tile number is negative).
>
> *  Bosnia - all hexes begin with a "preprinted blank gray tile with a
> negative number" (use a version with a city for the BH home, so it will
> show).  At phase 3 we use the new feature to auto-lay a pale green "tile"
> with a negative number on each hex.  It can then be upgraded.
>
> *  Italy - all hexes begin normally, but at phase 4 they all get a blank
> gray tile auto-laid on them, wiping everything out.  Even cities are not
> preserved.  The green tile for Bozen also gets auto-laid.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Rails-devel mailing list
> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Map Modifcations based on train phases

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

On 2014-08-18 03:16, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> do we have sofar any mechanismn in place to recreate the map based on 
> different Phases ?
> 
> In particular 1837 has two map changing phases (where as after the first 
> purchased 3 train Bosnia-Herzogovina becomes eglible for tile lays and 
> after the first 4 train italy isnt available anymore besides Bozen that 
> gets an automatic upgrade/replacement).

Here is how I had in mind to implement that:

*  Add to the XML "Hex" object, an option specifying that a particular
tile (by number and direction) be laid there when a specified phase change
occurs.  A positive tile number means it is taken from the unused tile
supply; if negative we don't bother, but just treat it as if preprinted.
In either case any existing tile in the hex (and any tokens if not
accommodated on the new tile) go back to the supply (again, unless the
tile number is negative).

*  Bosnia - all hexes begin with a "preprinted blank gray tile with a
negative number" (use a version with a city for the BH home, so it will
show).  At phase 3 we use the new feature to auto-lay a pale green "tile"
with a negative number on each hex.  It can then be upgraded.

*  Italy - all hexes begin normally, but at phase 4 they all get a blank
gray tile auto-laid on them, wiping everything out.  Even cities are not
preserved.  The green tile for Bozen also gets auto-laid.

Re: [Rails-devel] Map Modifcations based on train phases

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Martin:

take a look at BirminghamTileModifier in package 
net.sf.rails.game.specific._1851 :

You need to implement the NetworkGraphModifier interface to 
exclude/include hexes from being available. However this will not 
reflected visually on the map, "only" for the calculation of routes and 
hexes that are allowed to lay tiles and tokens on.

Upgrading a tile should be possible at the time of the phase change from 
inside the game engine. However this still requires some UI code. As I 
am currently working on the UI, you could wait a little bit with that, 
if you prefer. Otherwise have a look at the ORUIManager for the current 
implementation.

Stefan


On 08/18/2014 12:16 PM, Dr. Martin Brumm wrote:
> Hi,
>
> do we have sofar any mechanismn in place to recreate the map based on
> different Phases ?
>
> In particular 1837 has two map changing phases (where as after the first
> purchased 3 train Bosnia-Herzogovina becomes eglible for tile lays and
> after the first 4 train italy isnt available anymore besides Bozen that
> gets an automatic upgrade/replacement).
>
> Most  if not all tile handling mechanics are coming out of the OR UI
> right now, but this i think should be handled by the game engine ?
>
> Whats your opinion and howto proceed ? Is there a provision to have the
> engine//or any non player entity manipulate  the map ?
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
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[Rails-devel] Map Modifcations based on train phases

[Dr. M. B. <dr....@t-...>]

Hi,

do we have sofar any mechanismn in place to recreate the map based on 
different Phases ?

In particular 1837 has two map changing phases (where as after the first 
purchased 3 train Bosnia-Herzogovina becomes eglible for tile lays and 
after the first 4 train italy isnt available anymore besides Bozen that 
gets an automatic upgrade/replacement).

Most  if not all tile handling mechanics are coming out of the OR UI 
right now, but this i think should be handled by the game engine ?

Whats your opinion and howto proceed ? Is there a provision to have the 
engine//or any non player entity manipulate  the map ?

Regards,
Martin