rails-devel — List for discussion of Rails development

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 1835 playtest - hangs early

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

I have seen this bug before: It seems that the tile lay phase does not end 
correctly, if the special tile lay of the OBB comes after the regular tile 
lays. I had not time yet to follow this up, so I do not know if this comes 
from the fact that there are already multiple lays allowed or that OBB itself 
allows two independent lays.

Fortunately there is a quick workaround: Simply lay the OBB tile first, 
followed by the regular ones. This works on your save file too.

Be aware that there are still several bugs ahead of your party. Some of them 
already fixed in development, but some other still need further investigation. 
(Nearly all of them related to PR merger/creation).

And thanks for your excellent and interesting comments from your 18EU play.
I will try to follow up, but time is a rare good at the moment.

Stefan

On Saturday, September 11, 2010 05:38:57 pm John David Galt wrote:
> I tried it with 1835.  Contrary to what I wrote in the 18EU review, the
> 1835 map doesn't show the Y or XX hexes.  It does very nicely show the
> impassable hex side NW of Hamburg.
> 
> I got as far as laying tiles with the BY in OR1 (thanks for changing the
> company names!)  Then it hangs (no "Buy Train" button, "Done" is grayed
> out, and I don't even get the usual dialog saying BY has no train.)
> 
> Save file is attached.  If the list filters it, I'll mail it on request.

[Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 1835 playtest - hangs early

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

I tried it with 1835.  Contrary to what I wrote in the 18EU review, the
1835 map doesn't show the Y or XX hexes.  It does very nicely show the
impassable hex side NW of Hamburg.

I got as far as laying tiles with the BY in OR1 (thanks for changing the
company names!)  Then it hangs (no "Buy Train" button, "Done" is grayed
out, and I don't even get the usual dialog saying BY has no train.)

Save file is attached.  If the list filters it, I'll mail it on request.

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

Agreed with all suggestions, especially the sentiment of getting rid
of modal pop-up dialogs.

The general design philosophy since the project started is that modal
dialogs are evil and highly user unfriendly. They should be avoided at
all costs unless it is critical game-stopping information that players
*MUST* respond to before the game can proceed.

I'm not sure why or when these were added, but they need to be removed.

---Brett.



On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:31 PM, John David Galt
<jd...@di...> wrote:
> Comments on Rails 1.4, tested with a four player game of 18EU  2010-09-09
>
> General comments:
>
> *  In the "select game" dialog box, changing to a different game should not
> cause all players to be set back to "none" and the names blanked.
>
> *  The map should show "Y", where needed, on unbuilt city hexes.  This is a
> major annoyance during the start round, because it affects both the city's
> revenue and the possible shapes of the yellow tile, so not seeing it makes
> it hard to predict the values of minors.  (Yes, I know, I can find this out
> by mousing-over each one, but that is annoying.)
>
> *  The map also ought to show the values of red areas.  (I would treat each
> one as a "tile" with a negative number that gets upgraded by phase changes.)
>
> *  Entering a comment before the first action in the game should be allowed.
>
> *  Entering two comments in a row should append, not replace.
>
> *  It would be nice if the Game Status window had a column showing each
> player's total income in the last round.  This would act as a reminder that
> the player who is falling furthest behind had better DO SOMETHING! (and
> conversely, that the player who is making the most money should probably not
> change the status quo, by buying lots of trains or starting new companies).
>
> *  It would be nice if the program could remember (or let you save in a
> config file) the locations of every window, so you don't have to move them
> manual every time you start a game (and often afterward too).  I always use
> these settings.
>   Stock market: upper left corner of screen
>   "Game Status" tabulation/stock round input: lower left corner of screen
>   Map/operating round input: upper right corner of screen (and don't allow
>       the height to self-adjust so it's taller than the screen height minus
>       the Windows menu bar -- it now does so at the start of every OR until
>       there are too few companies to cause it (in my case, 10 companies).
>       The map also moves so it extends about an inch to the right of the
>       screen, every time.)
>   History/comment window: lower right corner
>
> All of the above apply to all games, except that I believe the 1830 and 1835
> maps do show you where the lettered tiles go.  Due credit: 18EU does show
> the two "B-V" hexes.
>
> Start round:
>
> *  It would be nice to have alternate starts available, such as any
>   combination of:
>   $400 each to start;
>   all starting prices reduced to $50;
>   bidding round order 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4,4,3,2.
>
> *  "Unlimited tiles" should not be an all-or-nothing setting: there should
> be a setting to make only #7, #8, and #9 unlimited (this is what the rules
> say to do in 18EU, 1826, and 1853v2, and probably many other games).
>
> *  Bids (above the starting value) look the same as the prices of things
> you've already bought.  Please change this: it makes it nonobvious who
> already owns more companies than others.
>
> *  There should be some visual indication of which players can still bid on
> the current item.
>
> *  A player is correctly skipped when an item someone else selected for
> bidding would cost more than he has.  But if it's your turn to select an
> item and you have less than $100, "Bid" ought to be grayed out and isn't.
>
> Operating rounds:
>
> *  The map should show the reserved hexes controlled by certain minors.
> (I don't expect them to be enforced yet, just shown.)
>
> *  Please enforce the rule that minors can't lay green tiles.
>
> *  When no tile lay is legally possible, please skip the tile-lay step.
> (Which would mean that after the first couple of rounds, most minors' tile-
> lay step would be skipped, speeding up the game a lot.)
>
> *  When placing tile #581 (green upgrade) in Berlin and trying it both ways
> it will go, the tokens that are already there (#9 and KPEV, which I formed
> from #7) are shown, respectively, along the SE and NW edges, rather than the
> NE and SW which are the existing connections they must keep.  They move to
> the correct places once I make the tile lay final, but showing them wrong
> makes it harder to place the tile correctly.
>
> *  It would be nice if I were allowed to have the program compute runs
> before I decide what tile to lay.  Sometimes a company is so spread out it
> isn't obvious where its trains are going.  (Of course I can always work
> around this by skipping the tile lay step, then "undo".)
>
> *  When deciding whether to pay, split, or withhold, it would be nice if
> the screen showed how much money the company will have after each choice.
> This isn't always easy to work out in your head, especially if there are
> some shares paying dividends into the treasury.  This goes for all games.
>
> *  Please get rid of the pop-up "<company> owns no trains, so revenue is
> $0."  Instead, just silently skip the revenue-setting step.
>
> *  The column that now reports "Pay out", "Withhold", or "Split" for the
> last turn of each company ought to say "$0 income" (or maybe "No run" or
> "No train") when that is true, so it doesn't look like the owner chose to
> withhold.
>
> *  A company's train-buying step is correctly skipped if it has no room for
> another train, but it should also be skipped (that is, "Buy Train" should
> be grayed out) if the company has $0 and at least one train.  Similarly, if
> a company spends its last dollar on a train (including forced purchases),
> its train-buying step should immediately end.
> (I believe this goes for all games -- or does anyone on this list really
> think that any game exists in which a train "purchase" from another company
> for $0 is allowed?  But even if you do, it's explicitly banned in 18EU.)
>
> *  When it's impossible for the company to buy or sell any treasury shares,
> the TRADING TREASURY SHARES step should be skipped.  (I'm mostly thinking
> of the situation when all shares of the company are owned by players, but
> it also applies if the company has no shares in treasury and has too little
> cash to buy one from the bank pool, or there are 5 shares in the bank pool
> and the company has too little cash to buy one.)  Because of the change of
> focus, this is a major waste of time, especially in the late game when the
> only shares not owned by players are those of companies that were never
> started.
>
> *  Buying and selling treasury stock works correctly, except one minor
> detail: when I mouse-over the "treasury shares" column, the tooltip says
> "click to select for buying" (even though it would be selling).
>
> Stock rounds:
>
> *  When floating a new company, if I buy until I have 60% and then merge in
> another minor company (to get more than 60% until the next stock round,
> which is specifically allowed in the rules) the exchange occurs but the
> "Done" button stays grayed out, making it impossible to continue the game
> without Undoing the exchange.
>
> *  If I start a company (purchase the president's share) and then Undo the
> act of forming it, the status window continues to show the company with the
> share price I set.
>
> *  When I buy shares from a company's treasury, the amount of money in that
> treasury is usually not updated right away.
>
> Ending:
>
> *  Please get rid of BOTH pop-ups saying the bank has broken.  Instead,
> just change the space on the Game Status window where the amount of money
> in the bank is normally shown to say "BROKEN", maybe in bright colors.
>
> *  The repeated pop-ups that "count down" to the winning player are even
> more annoying.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> and start using them to simplify application deployment and
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> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev
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>

Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Great suggestions, all of them.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 7:31 PM, John David Galt <
jd...@di...> wrote:

> Comments on Rails 1.4, tested with a four player game of 18EU  2010-09-09
>
> General comments:
>
> *  In the "select game" dialog box, changing to a different game should not
> cause all players to be set back to "none" and the names blanked.
>
> *  The map should show "Y", where needed, on unbuilt city hexes.  This is a
> major annoyance during the start round, because it affects both the city's
> revenue and the possible shapes of the yellow tile, so not seeing it makes
> it hard to predict the values of minors.  (Yes, I know, I can find this out
> by mousing-over each one, but that is annoying.)
>
> *  The map also ought to show the values of red areas.  (I would treat each
> one as a "tile" with a negative number that gets upgraded by phase
> changes.)
>
> *  Entering a comment before the first action in the game should be
> allowed.
>
> *  Entering two comments in a row should append, not replace.
>
> *  It would be nice if the Game Status window had a column showing each
> player's total income in the last round.  This would act as a reminder that
> the player who is falling furthest behind had better DO SOMETHING! (and
> conversely, that the player who is making the most money should probably
> not
> change the status quo, by buying lots of trains or starting new companies).
>
> *  It would be nice if the program could remember (or let you save in a
> config file) the locations of every window, so you don't have to move them
> manual every time you start a game (and often afterward too).  I always use
> these settings.
>   Stock market: upper left corner of screen
>   "Game Status" tabulation/stock round input: lower left corner of screen
>   Map/operating round input: upper right corner of screen (and don't allow
>       the height to self-adjust so it's taller than the screen height minus
>       the Windows menu bar -- it now does so at the start of every OR until
>       there are too few companies to cause it (in my case, 10 companies).
>       The map also moves so it extends about an inch to the right of the
>       screen, every time.)
>   History/comment window: lower right corner
>
> All of the above apply to all games, except that I believe the 1830 and
> 1835
> maps do show you where the lettered tiles go.  Due credit: 18EU does show
> the two "B-V" hexes.
>
> Start round:
>
> *  It would be nice to have alternate starts available, such as any
>   combination of:
>   $400 each to start;
>   all starting prices reduced to $50;
>   bidding round order 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4,4,3,2.
>
> *  "Unlimited tiles" should not be an all-or-nothing setting: there should
> be a setting to make only #7, #8, and #9 unlimited (this is what the rules
> say to do in 18EU, 1826, and 1853v2, and probably many other games).
>
> *  Bids (above the starting value) look the same as the prices of things
> you've already bought.  Please change this: it makes it nonobvious who
> already owns more companies than others.
>
> *  There should be some visual indication of which players can still bid on
> the current item.
>
> *  A player is correctly skipped when an item someone else selected for
> bidding would cost more than he has.  But if it's your turn to select an
> item and you have less than $100, "Bid" ought to be grayed out and isn't.
>
> Operating rounds:
>
> *  The map should show the reserved hexes controlled by certain minors.
> (I don't expect them to be enforced yet, just shown.)
>
> *  Please enforce the rule that minors can't lay green tiles.
>
> *  When no tile lay is legally possible, please skip the tile-lay step.
> (Which would mean that after the first couple of rounds, most minors' tile-
> lay step would be skipped, speeding up the game a lot.)
>
> *  When placing tile #581 (green upgrade) in Berlin and trying it both ways
> it will go, the tokens that are already there (#9 and KPEV, which I formed
> from #7) are shown, respectively, along the SE and NW edges, rather than
> the
> NE and SW which are the existing connections they must keep.  They move to
> the correct places once I make the tile lay final, but showing them wrong
> makes it harder to place the tile correctly.
>
> *  It would be nice if I were allowed to have the program compute runs
> before I decide what tile to lay.  Sometimes a company is so spread out it
> isn't obvious where its trains are going.  (Of course I can always work
> around this by skipping the tile lay step, then "undo".)
>
> *  When deciding whether to pay, split, or withhold, it would be nice if
> the screen showed how much money the company will have after each choice.
> This isn't always easy to work out in your head, especially if there are
> some shares paying dividends into the treasury.  This goes for all games.
>
> *  Please get rid of the pop-up "<company> owns no trains, so revenue is
> $0."  Instead, just silently skip the revenue-setting step.
>
> *  The column that now reports "Pay out", "Withhold", or "Split" for the
> last turn of each company ought to say "$0 income" (or maybe "No run" or
> "No train") when that is true, so it doesn't look like the owner chose to
> withhold.
>
> *  A company's train-buying step is correctly skipped if it has no room for
> another train, but it should also be skipped (that is, "Buy Train" should
> be grayed out) if the company has $0 and at least one train.  Similarly, if
> a company spends its last dollar on a train (including forced purchases),
> its train-buying step should immediately end.
> (I believe this goes for all games -- or does anyone on this list really
> think that any game exists in which a train "purchase" from another company
> for $0 is allowed?  But even if you do, it's explicitly banned in 18EU.)
>
> *  When it's impossible for the company to buy or sell any treasury shares,
> the TRADING TREASURY SHARES step should be skipped.  (I'm mostly thinking
> of the situation when all shares of the company are owned by players, but
> it also applies if the company has no shares in treasury and has too little
> cash to buy one from the bank pool, or there are 5 shares in the bank pool
> and the company has too little cash to buy one.)  Because of the change of
> focus, this is a major waste of time, especially in the late game when the
> only shares not owned by players are those of companies that were never
> started.
>
> *  Buying and selling treasury stock works correctly, except one minor
> detail: when I mouse-over the "treasury shares" column, the tooltip says
> "click to select for buying" (even though it would be selling).
>
> Stock rounds:
>
> *  When floating a new company, if I buy until I have 60% and then merge in
> another minor company (to get more than 60% until the next stock round,
> which is specifically allowed in the rules) the exchange occurs but the
> "Done" button stays grayed out, making it impossible to continue the game
> without Undoing the exchange.
>
> *  If I start a company (purchase the president's share) and then Undo the
> act of forming it, the status window continues to show the company with the
> share price I set.
>
> *  When I buy shares from a company's treasury, the amount of money in that
> treasury is usually not updated right away.
>
> Ending:
>
> *  Please get rid of BOTH pop-ups saying the bank has broken.  Instead,
> just change the space on the Game Status window where the amount of money
> in the bank is normally shown to say "BROKEN", maybe in bright colors.
>
> *  The repeated pop-ups that "count down" to the winning player are even
> more annoying.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
> and start using them to simplify application deployment and
> accelerate your shift to cloud computing
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

[Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

Comments on Rails 1.4, tested with a four player game of 18EU  2010-09-09

General comments:

*  In the "select game" dialog box, changing to a different game should not
cause all players to be set back to "none" and the names blanked.

*  The map should show "Y", where needed, on unbuilt city hexes.  This is a
major annoyance during the start round, because it affects both the city's
revenue and the possible shapes of the yellow tile, so not seeing it makes
it hard to predict the values of minors.  (Yes, I know, I can find this out
by mousing-over each one, but that is annoying.)

*  The map also ought to show the values of red areas.  (I would treat each
one as a "tile" with a negative number that gets upgraded by phase changes.)

*  Entering a comment before the first action in the game should be allowed.

*  Entering two comments in a row should append, not replace.

*  It would be nice if the Game Status window had a column showing each
player's total income in the last round.  This would act as a reminder that
the player who is falling furthest behind had better DO SOMETHING! (and
conversely, that the player who is making the most money should probably not
change the status quo, by buying lots of trains or starting new companies).

*  It would be nice if the program could remember (or let you save in a
config file) the locations of every window, so you don't have to move them
manual every time you start a game (and often afterward too).  I always use
these settings.
   Stock market: upper left corner of screen
   "Game Status" tabulation/stock round input: lower left corner of screen
   Map/operating round input: upper right corner of screen (and don't allow
       the height to self-adjust so it's taller than the screen height minus
       the Windows menu bar -- it now does so at the start of every OR until
       there are too few companies to cause it (in my case, 10 companies).
       The map also moves so it extends about an inch to the right of the
       screen, every time.)
   History/comment window: lower right corner

All of the above apply to all games, except that I believe the 1830 and 1835
maps do show you where the lettered tiles go.  Due credit: 18EU does show
the two "B-V" hexes.

Start round:

*  It would be nice to have alternate starts available, such as any
   combination of:
   $400 each to start;
   all starting prices reduced to $50;
   bidding round order 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4,4,3,2.

*  "Unlimited tiles" should not be an all-or-nothing setting: there should
be a setting to make only #7, #8, and #9 unlimited (this is what the rules
say to do in 18EU, 1826, and 1853v2, and probably many other games).

*  Bids (above the starting value) look the same as the prices of things
you've already bought.  Please change this: it makes it nonobvious who
already owns more companies than others.

*  There should be some visual indication of which players can still bid on
the current item.

*  A player is correctly skipped when an item someone else selected for
bidding would cost more than he has.  But if it's your turn to select an
item and you have less than $100, "Bid" ought to be grayed out and isn't.

Operating rounds:

*  The map should show the reserved hexes controlled by certain minors.
(I don't expect them to be enforced yet, just shown.)

*  Please enforce the rule that minors can't lay green tiles.

*  When no tile lay is legally possible, please skip the tile-lay step.
(Which would mean that after the first couple of rounds, most minors' tile-
lay step would be skipped, speeding up the game a lot.)

*  When placing tile #581 (green upgrade) in Berlin and trying it both ways
it will go, the tokens that are already there (#9 and KPEV, which I formed
from #7) are shown, respectively, along the SE and NW edges, rather than the
NE and SW which are the existing connections they must keep.  They move to
the correct places once I make the tile lay final, but showing them wrong
makes it harder to place the tile correctly.

*  It would be nice if I were allowed to have the program compute runs
before I decide what tile to lay.  Sometimes a company is so spread out it
isn't obvious where its trains are going.  (Of course I can always work
around this by skipping the tile lay step, then "undo".)

*  When deciding whether to pay, split, or withhold, it would be nice if
the screen showed how much money the company will have after each choice.
This isn't always easy to work out in your head, especially if there are
some shares paying dividends into the treasury.  This goes for all games.

*  Please get rid of the pop-up "<company> owns no trains, so revenue is
$0."  Instead, just silently skip the revenue-setting step.

*  The column that now reports "Pay out", "Withhold", or "Split" for the
last turn of each company ought to say "$0 income" (or maybe "No run" or
"No train") when that is true, so it doesn't look like the owner chose to
withhold.

*  A company's train-buying step is correctly skipped if it has no room for
another train, but it should also be skipped (that is, "Buy Train" should
be grayed out) if the company has $0 and at least one train.  Similarly, if
a company spends its last dollar on a train (including forced purchases),
its train-buying step should immediately end.
(I believe this goes for all games -- or does anyone on this list really
think that any game exists in which a train "purchase" from another company
for $0 is allowed?  But even if you do, it's explicitly banned in 18EU.)

*  When it's impossible for the company to buy or sell any treasury shares,
the TRADING TREASURY SHARES step should be skipped.  (I'm mostly thinking
of the situation when all shares of the company are owned by players, but
it also applies if the company has no shares in treasury and has too little
cash to buy one from the bank pool, or there are 5 shares in the bank pool
and the company has too little cash to buy one.)  Because of the change of
focus, this is a major waste of time, especially in the late game when the
only shares not owned by players are those of companies that were never
started.

*  Buying and selling treasury stock works correctly, except one minor
detail: when I mouse-over the "treasury shares" column, the tooltip says
"click to select for buying" (even though it would be selling).

Stock rounds:

*  When floating a new company, if I buy until I have 60% and then merge in
another minor company (to get more than 60% until the next stock round,
which is specifically allowed in the rules) the exchange occurs but the
"Done" button stays grayed out, making it impossible to continue the game
without Undoing the exchange.

*  If I start a company (purchase the president's share) and then Undo the
act of forming it, the status window continues to show the company with the
share price I set.

*  When I buy shares from a company's treasury, the amount of money in that
treasury is usually not updated right away.

Ending:

*  Please get rid of BOTH pop-ups saying the bank has broken.  Instead,
just change the space on the Game Status window where the amount of money
in the bank is normally shown to say "BROKEN", maybe in bright colors.

*  The repeated pop-ups that "count down" to the winning player are even
more annoying.

Re: [Rails-devel] Recent changes

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

Stefan Frey wrote:
> Some minor bug fixes:
> 
> A. Special tile lays
> Currently special tile lays had hardly any checks for its validity.
> 
> Examples:
> a) In 1889 the port tile can be laid on a hex already containing
> a yellow broad curve town tile.
> b) In 18AL the lumberjack tile can be laid on a hex already containing
> a yellow broad curve tile.
> c) In 1830 the D&H allows upgrading to green tiles if a yellow tile was laid 
> already.
> 
> The following changes prevent this:
> - Special tile lays always increase tile colour number.

I don't understand this, unless it means that the tile colour must follow the
same progression (from what's already in the hex) as a regular tile lay.
This is a good general rule, but we need to be able to declare exceptions in
a game definition.

> - Special tile lays always check the allowed tile colour of the current phase.

If this is true, I would think it would solve the Pfalz problem (just notice
that the hex is already yellow).

> A solution for the problem that the UI suggest a potential Pfalzbahn tile lay 
> in 1835 in yellow (as reported by John Galt) is not possible yet: The 
> Pfalzbahn special tile lay has no specific tile specified, thus the check if 
> any tile is available for that hex is only done after the hex gets selected.

[Rails-devel] Recent changes

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Some minor bug fixes:

A. Special tile lays
Currently special tile lays had hardly any checks for its validity.

Examples:
a) In 1889 the port tile can be laid on a hex already containing
a yellow broad curve town tile.
b) In 18AL the lumberjack tile can be laid on a hex already containing
a yellow broad curve tile.
c) In 1830 the D&H allows upgrading to green tiles if a yellow tile was laid 
already.

The following changes prevent this:
- Special tile lays always increase tile colour number.
- Special tile lays always check the allowed tile colour of the current phase.
- Add tile="57" to D&H special property

A solution for the problem that the UI suggest a potential Pfalzbahn tile lay 
in 1835 in yellow (as reported by John Galt) is not possible yet: The 
Pfalzbahn special tile lay has no specific tile specified, thus the check if 
any tile is available for that hex is only done after the hex gets selected.

B. Configuration import
The import functionality for the new profile files does not work currently 
(legacy config files do work). This will be fixed in the next release.

Stefan

Re: [Rails-devel] 1835 bug fixes

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Thanks, Stefan.

I had kind of lost track where we are with 1835, great that you can pick it
up. 
I believe there are still some issues with the blue private properties, as
reported by JDG a while ago, and I was intending to give these a better look
whenever I could spend a good bit of time. But no problem if you want to
take these too.

Erik.

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...] 
Sent: Monday 06 September 2010 23:28
To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
Subject: [Rails-devel] 1835 bug fixes

In a test game on 1835 I found several bugs:
As most of them were pretty basic/standard, it was easier to fix them
directly 
instead of forwarding bug reports to Erik.
Nearly all of the bugs are either related to PR formation or
nationalisation, 
thus playing until that stage works ok.

Stefan

List of my changes:
- Tile 213 update was incorrect
- Pr funding money not given, but see TODO 1
- PR formation round acted as a stock round (side effect: price increase, 
wrong round names), removed call to super.finishRound()
- Undo inside PR formation round creates weird states, fixed by changing to 
linked moveSets
- Nationalisation did not check certificate limits before action
(post-action 
check was ok)
- Nationalisation prevents selling of stocks (due to self-nationalisation
bug)
- Pr 5% shares report only 1/4 of value, 10% shares only 1/2 of value(report

window, executed correctly fixed currentSellPrice, see TODO 2 and 3,
adjusted 
output)
- Added manual closing of OBB

Remaining TODOs:
1) Implement SharePriceUnits everywhere it is appropriate (e.g. Round method

floating())
2) SellPrices is not a stateful map (=> undo side effects!)
3) Selling PR president is shown as selling two 5 percent shares (which
might 
be correct) but selling those creates all kind of crazy effects

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[Rails-devel] 1835 bug fixes

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

In a test game on 1835 I found several bugs:
As most of them were pretty basic/standard, it was easier to fix them directly 
instead of forwarding bug reports to Erik.
Nearly all of the bugs are either related to PR formation or nationalisation, 
thus playing until that stage works ok.

Stefan

List of my changes:
- Tile 213 update was incorrect
- Pr funding money not given, but see TODO 1
- PR formation round acted as a stock round (side effect: price increase, 
wrong round names), removed call to super.finishRound()
- Undo inside PR formation round creates weird states, fixed by changing to 
linked moveSets
- Nationalisation did not check certificate limits before action (post-action 
check was ok)
- Nationalisation prevents selling of stocks (due to self-nationalisation bug)
- Pr 5% shares report only 1/4 of value, 10% shares only 1/2 of value(report 
window, executed correctly fixed currentSellPrice, see TODO 2 and 3, adjusted 
output)
- Added manual closing of OBB

Remaining TODOs:
1) Implement SharePriceUnits everywhere it is appropriate (e.g. Round method 
floating())
2) SellPrices is not a stateful map (=> undo side effects!)
3) Selling PR president is shown as selling two 5 percent shares (which might 
be correct) but selling those creates all kind of crazy effects

Re: [Rails-devel] Can't start new game on 1.4

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

Stefan Frey wrote:
> Thanks for the raising the issue:
> I was able to recreate the problem.
> 
> Most likely a change of the filename pattern is the reason for that error.
> 
> There are two entries that use those filename patterns:
> 
> Save => Filename date pattern
> (setting in default profile: yyyyMMdd_HHmm)
> Log => Report filename date pattern
> (setting in default profile: currently empty)

I would be surprised if this were so.  I installed Rails 1.4 in its own
directory, not over another version, and have not yet done anything with it
except to save a [Configuration] file (which I placed in the top level
directory -- alongside the subdirectory "rails-1.4" -- and named
"user.rails_config").  Could that filename have caused the problem?

> Possible solutions to fix the user profile:
> A) Manual change to the setting intended using the allowed syntax.
> B) Manual change to the default setting above
> C) Create a new profile (e.g. user_new) and store that to the same file 
> location as user
> D) Create a new profile (e.g. user_new) and save it to another 
> location and import that to user

OK.  What file do I need to rename?

Re: [Rails-devel] Can't start new game on 1.4

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Thanks for the raising the issue:
I was able to recreate the problem.

Most likely a change of the filename pattern is the reason for that error.

There are two entries that use those filename patterns:

Save => Filename date pattern
(setting in default profile: yyyyMMdd_HHmm)
Log => Report filename date pattern
(setting in default profile: currently empty)

Those settings are parsed by SimpleDateFormat, which allows only a specifc 
syntax. See for a reference the table included here:
http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/text/SimpleDateFormat.html

Possible solutions to fix the user profile:
A) Manual change to the setting intended using the allowed syntax.
B) Manual change to the default setting above
C) Create a new profile (e.g. user_new) and store that to the same file 
location as user
D) Create a new profile (e.g. user_new) and save it to another 
location and import that to user

(This reminds me that something like restore to a default template would be 
nice).

Given those workarounds I would hardly call it completely unusable ;-)
but I admit that Rails could fail more graciously.
If none of those works, please forward your configuration profile to me by pm.

Stefan


On Monday, September 06, 2010 02:46:14 am John David Galt wrote:
> I've downloaded and installed Rails 1.4; created a config file; and tried
> to start a game, twice (one 1835 and one 1856).  In both cases, as soon as
> I hit "New Game", a popup appears on the screen, with a red stop sign at
> the left, saying
> 
>        Game setup from file Game.xml failed:
>         Illegal pattern character 'r'
>                    [ OK ]
> 
> Obviously the game is completely unusable until this is fixed.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] [Rails-users] Trains on open market not available on rails (1856)

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

I have committed a fix for this problem. Trans and cash are now transferred
to the Bank/Pool.
Erik.


  _____  

From: Erik Vos [mailto:eri...@xs...] 
Sent: Sunday 05 September 2010 23:44
To: 'Carlos Moreno Serrano'
Subject: RE: [Rails-users] Trains on open market not available on rails
(1856)


Thanks for the saved file. This is a Rails bug: the trains of a closing
company (and I think also the cash, if it has any) just disappear. The
transfer action back to the Bank is missing. This will be fixed before the
next release.
 
Erik.


  _____  

From: Carlos Moreno Serrano [mailto:car...@gm...] 
Sent: Sunday 05 September 2010 23:21
To: Erik Vos
Subject: Re: [Rails-users] Trains on open market not available on rails
(1856)


Well, I meant get Closed (the white area in the stock market). 

Here is a saved file just before player Alan sells his 4 shares from LPS to
the bank that makes LPS to close and put their trains in the open market.

Thanks for the quick response!

Carlos


On 5 September 2010 22:14, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:


Hi Carlos,
 
What do you mean with "went bust"? 
For all I know, a bankruptcy in 1856 ends the game (or should end it - if it
doesn't in Rails, that would be a bug).
Trains discarded during CGR formation can be bought all right from the Pool
(I just did a test with 1.4). If not in your case, I would need a saved file
to investigate your problem.
 
Erik.
 


  _____  

From: Carlos Moreno Serrano [mailto:car...@gm...] 
Sent: Sunday 05 September 2010 22:44
To: rai...@li...
Subject: [Rails-users] Trains on open market not available on rails (1856)


Hi guys, 

Me and three other guys just played our first game of 1856 and we used rails
(initially in rails 1.3 and later in rails 1.4) in hotseat mode.

We played normally until one of the public companies, LPS, went bust and
according to the rules, their trains should go onto the open market so that
any other public company can buy them. The problem is that we saw no way of
being able to purchase them in rails 1.3 or 1.4. When during an operating
round we clicked on the Buy Train button, the drop-down list only showed the
available trains from other public companies and not also the ones from the
open market.

What are we doing wrong?

Thank you so much.

Best regards,

Carlos

[Rails-devel] Can't start new game on 1.4

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

I've downloaded and installed Rails 1.4; created a config file; and tried
to start a game, twice (one 1835 and one 1856).  In both cases, as soon as
I hit "New Game", a popup appears on the screen, with a red stop sign at the
left, saying

       Game setup from file Game.xml failed:
        Illegal pattern character 'r'
                   [ OK ]

Obviously the game is completely unusable until this is fixed.

Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game history

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Sounds great, looking forward to it.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:

> Chris:
> I believe that this was a misunderstanding:
> All settings that effect UI only are defined in configuration and stored in
> the configuration profiles.
> Those settings are easily player specific for pbem play.
> In the next release there will be a default profile for pbem and ftf play.
> Stefan
>
> On Thursday, September 02, 2010 05:33:50 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
> > I'd rather have it set for each player in their configuration, as two
> > players in the same game might have different commenting preferences.  I
> > imagine Player A who always wants to comment before actions, and Player B
> > who always wants to comment after actions.  It seems to be a personal
> > preference, not a per-game preference.
> >
> > --
> > Chris
> >
> > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:31 PM, brett lentz <bre...@gm...>
> wrote:
> > > This is a good option to have under a category of PBEM-oriented startup
> > > options.
> > >
> > > ---Brett.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:
> > > > Seconded!
> > > >
> > > > On 2 September 2010 03:15, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >> That would be very, very nice.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Chris
> > > >>
> > > >> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
> wrote:
> > > >>> All those comments help to get a better understanding, how your
> pbem
> > > >>> gaming
> > > >>> works: It can be that a direct usage of the dashboard with java
> > >
> > > dashboard
> > >
> > > >>> classes is more robust..
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Is anyone interested into the following?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Every time the active player changes.
> > > >>> A) A save file dialog opens with the usual suggested filename.
> > > >>> B) If the save occurs, the output of the game report of the last
> > > >>> active player
> > > >>> is shown in a text field, which allows editing.
> > > >>> C) After editing and confirmation the content is automatically
> pasted
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> clipboard.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Stefan
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:36 am Phil Davies wrote:
> > > >>> > Additional when Dropbox goes wonky (as it is occasionally wont to
> > > >>> > do) and you haven't yet got the previous file, you can at least
> > > >>> > play
> > >
> > > catch
> > >
> > > >>> > up and execute the previous players actions for them.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > For my personal uses, I play over instant messenger most of the
> > > >>> > time and copy/paste works into a google chat window fine on my
> > > >>> > machine.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > On 1 September 2010 00:50, Chris Shaffer <
> chr...@gm...>
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > wrote:
> > > >>> > > This is the use case for me too. Every group with which I've
> > > >>> > > played Rails
> > > >>> > > by email includes a copy/paste of the most current action, or
> the
> > > >>> > > entire
> > > >>> > > current round, in the email so people can follow the action
> > > >>> > > without loading each individual save file.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > This is partly an issue because loading save files is a bit
> > > >>> > > clunky,
> > >
> > > as
> > >
> > > >>> > > noted in a previous email where someone pointed out that you
> have
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > >>> > > completely exit the program in order to load a new file.
> > > >>> > > However, even
> > > >>> > > if it were easy to load files, the textual summaries are a nice
> > > >>> > > way
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > >>> > > track on multiple games in email, and are also useful when
> people
> > >
> > > are
> > >
> > > >>> > > in
> > > >>> > > environments (e.g. work, smartphone) where they can't load the
> > > >>> > > save file.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > --
> > > >>> > > Chris
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Steve Undy <
> > >
> > > ste...@gm...>
> > >
> > > >>> > > wrote:
> > > >>> > >> The use model I'm familiar with (there are probably others)
> > >
> > > involves
> > >
> > > >>> > >> using DropBox to share/distribute the save file and sending an
> > >
> > > email
> > >
> > > >>> > >> reminder to the players with an excerpt from the report window
> > >
> > > that
> > >
> > > >>> > >> describes the latest move.  This way, all players can keep
> track
> > >
> > > of
> > >
> > > >>> > >> what is happening in the game without having to open the save
> > >
> > > file.
> > >
> > > >>> > >> Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >> st...@ro...
> > > >>> > >>
> > > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Stefan Frey
> > > >>> > >> <ste...@we...>
> > > >>> > >>
> > > >>> > >> wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> It seems that this can be narrowed down to a problem that
> > > >>> > >>> occurs
> > >
> > > in
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> combination with Firefox only.
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> Interestingly it works on my system perfectly, even copying
> > > >>> > >>> into
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> web-email
> > > >>> > >>> clients that I use (actually its is more a "do not use", I
> > > >>> > >>> prefer IMAP
> > > >>> > >>> clients). My firefox version is 3.6.8.
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> A quick google search brings up:
> > > >>> > >>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Clipboard_not_working
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> Especially have a look at the paragraph about the rich text
> > >
> > > client.
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> Copy&paste is still something which is strongly desktop/OS
> > >
> > > dependent
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> and was
> > > >>> > >>> the main reason to keep the previous ("static") report
> window.
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> If someone comes up with a suggestion how to solve that, I am
> > >
> > > happy
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> to
> > > >>> > >>> add the
> > > >>> > >>> solution to the code. May I ask what the use case for this
> > >
> > > procedure
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> is? Why
> > > >>> > >>> not mailing the rails game file instead of the report?
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> Stefan
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2010 07:04:36 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > Testing on Mac shows that you can copy/paste into a Firefox
> > >
> > > edit
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > window.
> > > >>> > >>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > Despite our desire to avoid Windows, a significant portion
> of
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > player
> > > >>> > >>> > base are Windows users.  Many of them are not technically
> > > >>> > >>> > proficient
> > > >>> > >>> > enough
> > > >>> > >>> > to switch, nor should we try to force them to do so.
> > > >>> > >>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > I will test on Windows and Ubuntu this evening.
> > > >>> > >>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > --
> > > >>> > >>> > Chris
> > > >>> > >>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > Please consider the environment before printing this
> e-mail.
> > > >>> > >>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > > OK, very interesting.  Cut-and-paste works from the
> report
> > > >>> > >>> > > window
> > > >>> > >>> > > into
> > > >>> > >>> > > Notepad, but not directly into a Firefox edit window.
>  But
> > >
> > > you
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > > can
> > > >>> > >>> > > cut-and-paste from that Notepad window into Firefox.
> > > >>> > >>> > > Another reason to
> > > >>> > >>> > > avoid Windows.
> > > >>> > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > > (sorry about all the chatter on this)
> > > >>> > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > > Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >>> > > st...@ro...
> > > >>> > >>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >> I agree with Chris: It looks like cut-and-paste doesn't
> > > >>> > >>> > >> work from
> > > >>> > >>> > >> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >> new report window on Windows (at least not on XP).
> > > >>> > >>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
> > > >>> > >>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Chris Shaffer
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> <chr...@gm...>wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> Interestingly, it works on my Mac at work.  I'll do
> more
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> testing
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> when I
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> get home tonight.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> --
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> Chris
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> Please consider the environment before printing this
> > >
> > > e-mail.
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hmmm.  Copying from the report window works OK on my
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> linux system.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve Undy
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> st...@ro...
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Shaffer
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> <chr...@gm...
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> > wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm using 1.4 now, and I can't seem to copy text from
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> the new
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> report
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> window to paste it into an email.  I've tried on both
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Windows
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> and Ubuntu Linux, with the configuration "report
> window
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> editable" checked and unchecked on both systems.  Any
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> suggestions?
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> --
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Chris
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Please consider the environment before printing this
> > >
> > > e-mail.
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Stefan Frey
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> <ste...@we...>wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Chris & Erik:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * Fixed the missing newline in copy&paste from the
> new
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> report
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> window
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> (google is your friend).
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * There is a new configuration window now, which
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> allows
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> set
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> options via an
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> UI. I will add some code (similar to the one  font
> > >
> > > changes)
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that makes the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> change immediate and does not require a reload.
> > >
> > > Supplying
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> both
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> simultaneously
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> would be possible, but might bring more confusion to
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> newbies
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> benefits to
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the experts?
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * I could change the (static/legacy) report window
> to
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> new
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> behavior of
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> clearing undone actions instead of appending
> undoing,
> > >
> > > but
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> then
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> difference
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> between the two is merely formatting and the
> > >
> > > availability
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks. Then
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> it is easier to deactivate the formatting and
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks than
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> to support two
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> different subclasses of the ReportWindow.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> There are two reasons to keep the static version:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> A) For me the static window acts as an accounting
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> trail, thus
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> keeps
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> track of
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undos explicitly.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> B) For (quite old) computers (or handhelds if Rails
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> gets portable in
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> future) the JEditorPane is a drag on performance and
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the whole
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> content is
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> updated after each action instead of appending as in
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the static case.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Stefan
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:31:15 am Chris
> Shaffer
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > In that case, could there be an option to enable
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > both report
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> windows, so
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > users can switch back and forth between them
> within
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > a single
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > game?
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>  And
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > without requiring them to edit configuration files
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > and reload? I'd
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hate to
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have to choose between one or the other, since
> they
> > >
> > > both
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have lots
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > utility.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > --
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Chris
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Please consider the environment before printing
> this
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > e-mail.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > <eri...@xs...>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  I found that you can do that, but at the rather
> > >
> > > severe
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > penalty
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  of
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> losing
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > all end-of lines. The report becomes one long
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > line. Better keep to the (what Stefan in his
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > wisdom
> > >
> > > disposes
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as)
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> "legacy"
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > report if you want to save or copy it.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Erik.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  ------------------------------
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:
> > > chr...@gm...]
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday 11 August 2010 21:17
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as
> game
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > history
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Is it still possible to copy text from the
> Report
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > window
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > for
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> pasting into
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > an email?
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > --
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Chris
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > this e-mail.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stefan Frey
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > <ste...@we...>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The linked movesets in the CGR 1856 merger
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> inspired
> > >
> > > a
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> feature
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> proved to
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> be surprisingly easy (as it leverages on the
> > >
> > > excellent
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> move/state mechanisms
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> in Rails). The downside is that it can be
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> effected
> > >
> > > by
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> all
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undo
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> related bugs, but the number of those was on
> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> decrease
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> lately.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The report window now acts as game history:
> There
> > >
> > > are
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> hyperlinks
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> for
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> each action. Clicking on any of those lets
> Rails
> > >
> > > jump
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> that
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> game
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> situation (by
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> calling undo repeatedly). Return to a later
> > >
> > > position
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> possible
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> unless
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> an action is taken (as it is the case for
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> standard redo).
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I also
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> added
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> two buttons (<< and >>) to allow single-step
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> moves.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The old report window (which is editable) can
> be
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> activated via
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Configuration menu (or setting
> report.window.type
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> static in
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> legacy configfiles).
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Stefan
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ----
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> ------ This SF.net email is sponsored by
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Make an app they can't live without
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rai...@li...
> > >
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ -----
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > ----- This SF.net email is sponsored by
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Make an app they can't live without
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rai...@li...
> > >
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ---------- This SF.net email is sponsored by
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> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Make an app they can't live without
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> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rai...@li...
> > >
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> ------ --------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is
> sponsored
> > >
> > > by:
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Rai...@li...
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-deve
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>> l
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> ------ -------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> by:
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> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>> Rai...@li...
> > > >>> > >>> > >>>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >>> ------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> > > >>> > >>>
> > > >>> > >>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > >>> > >>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> > > >>> > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > >>> Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > >>> Rai...@li...
> > > >>> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > >> ------ This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> > > >>> > >>
> > > >>> > >> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > >>> > >> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > > >>> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>> > >> Rai...@li...
> > > >>> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > >>> > > ----- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > >>> > > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > > >>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> > >
> > > >>> > --- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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> > > >>> > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> > > >>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> > > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > Rails-devel mailing list
> > > >>> > Rai...@li...
> > > >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -----
> > >
> > > >>> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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> > > >>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > >>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> > > >> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> > > >>
> > > >> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > >> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > >
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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> > > > Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > > > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
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> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Some (multi-)undo related bugs

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...] 
Sent: Thursday 02 September 2010 23:12
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Some (multi-)undo related bugs

Brett & Erik:
Depending on the interpretation of model and state (general idea, pattern 
context, Rails context) I can agree/disagree with all your statements below.

Example: If model is simply the whole set of data/structure of an 18xx game,

and if state is defined as something that change its structure /behavior 
/properties at runtime, then I disagree (think definition of tracks on
tiles).
If we define model as all classes that inherit ModelObject and state as
above, 
than I easily agree.   

So I try to clearly identify my interpretation my take simply is: Parts of
the 
(game) model, which change their state (as defined above)
directly/indirectly, 
extend ModelObject. There is no substantial difference, if the UI subscribe
to 
the object or if only other part of the (game) model.

Thus I suggest do derive all three cases below from ModelObject:
A) First-class model objects (have state of its own, update UI directly)
B) Derived model objects (derive their state from A) or C) type objects, but

update UI directly)
C) State objects  (have state of its own, but do not update UI directly)

[EV] The current ModelObject was basically intended to provide for case B).
'Model' is used here in the very limited sense of a Rails-style Observable.
I conclude that you want to give it a more fundamental meaning - fine with
me if that clarifies matters.
The fact that State extends ModelObject is merely caused by Java's main
defect:
the lack of multiple inheritance. I consider State and
Model-in-the-sense-of-Observable
as independent types, but the problem was that some objects need to be both.


[EV] I'm not sure if using the term Model in this limited sense does any
right to its meaning in the MV(C) pattern sense. Perhaps ModelObject is just
a bad name. I'm not well versed in MVC theory, to me it's all a matter of
practical solutions to actual needs.

[EV] What this all means for which way to go (if any), I don't know. If you
know ways to give these concepts a better foundation, please go ahead, as
long as it simplifies, not complicates the structure (for the sake of some
theory). I have seen to much unwieldy Java code to believe that following
preconceived frameworks tend to yield good results.

>From my point of view the difference between A and C is irrelevant on the 
model (MVC context here) level, as the model should not care which elements 
the UI/view subscribes.

The difference between B and C might be somehow more 
relevant, especially if the only composite information for specific UI 
elements. Then it would make sense to move those into a controller layer,
but 
they could still follow the ModelObject observer pattern. 

Another suggestion is those objects that have a state of their owns (type A 
and C thus get changed by Moves) implement a Moveable interface to identify 
those.  

Stefan

On Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:19:35 pm brett lentz wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> > Turn-based boardgames are effectively state machines.  I'm not sure I
> > can think of a model object that should be stateless.
> > 
> > Certain parts of the view (in an MVC world) can and should be
> > stateless, but the model *is* the state of the application (read:
> > game).
> > 
> > [EV] Of course there is always some form of state behind a model, but
> > often it is not a single state. For instance, the views that give you a
> > list of available trains, or the player worth, or a share percentage,
> > have models that depend on some calculated value, which is not an
> > independent state itself.
> 
> Correct. This is where MVC tends to be an improvement to just an MV
> design. Typically, the controller possesses the "business rules" that
> derives those calculated values from the model.
> 
> Originally, we started with a Model-View design. It's probably time to
> work on cleaning up the distinction between Model and Controller, and
> making that distinction to help clarify which is which.
> 
> > Erik.
> 
> ---Brett.
> 
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:

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Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Rails-devel] Some (multi-)undo related bugs

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

Stefan -

I see what you're driving at, and it sounds a lot like MVC to me. ;-)

So... I feel I should caveat this with the usual disclaimer:  the guy
writing the code, ultimately, will get to make most of these
decisions. As I haven't had time to directly touch the code, I feel
that yours and Erik's opinions should weigh a bit more than mine at
this point. :-)

That said... I think your view and mine align pretty closely. Most of
my suggestion really comes down to clarifying the distinction between
model and controller, and reflecting that distinction in the code's
organization. To be honest, I've spent the last week at $dayjob coding
a TurboGears app, which is heavily MVC structured, so this is probably
influencing my perspective.

Basically, the 'model' should be the current state of the game. It's
stored in some sort of data structure that could translate to a
database, or a segment of RAM, or a set of flat files. How it's stored
isn't relevant so much as _that_ it's stored as *data*. To me, this is
stuff like Company A's share price is $100, Company B has 2 5-Trains,
and Company C just played Tile #7 into MapHex A5.

The Controller layer receives requests from the user through the
View's UI, and operates on the Model. It's the "glue" between UI and
Data. Much of our game engine code could be considered "controllers".
It takes the instructions from the UI, interprets the request through
the game's ruleset, then applies the relevant changes to the data
store to update the state of the game to reflect those changes.

The View is what the user sees. It may access Model objects for
read-only display purposes, but it should *not* change model objects.
All changes to the model's data should route through the various
Controllers because all of the logic on _how_ to update the game state
should be in the controller.

So... in our case, it is likely that we could further specify layers
in terms of function or based on how they interconnect, but the basic
design should look something like this:

Game State Data -> Data storage interface -> Game Engine and other
App-specific logic -> Public API -> UI.

I have a feeling that it may be time to do some housekeeping and more
clearly define the boundaries of each domain so that if we want to
swap out the Swing UI for Web-based, or swap our current in-memory
data store for a database, we can without needing to touch the other
parts of the code.

---Brett.



On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> Brett & Erik:
> Depending on the interpretation of model and state (general idea, pattern
> context, Rails context) I can agree/disagree with all your statements below.
>
> Example: If model is simply the whole set of data/structure of an 18xx game,
> and if state is defined as something that change its structure /behavior
> /properties at runtime, then I disagree (think definition of tracks on tiles).
> If we define model as all classes that inherit ModelObject and state as above,
> than I easily agree.
>
> So I try to clearly identify my interpretation my take simply is: Parts of the
> (game) model, which change their state (as defined above) directly/indirectly,
> extend ModelObject. There is no substantial difference, if the UI subscribe to
> the object or if only other part of the (game) model.
>
> Thus I suggest do derive all three cases below from ModelObject:
> A) First-class model objects (have state of its own, update UI directly)
> B) Derived model objects (derive their state from A) or C) type objects, but
> update UI directly)
> C) State objects  (have state of its own, but do not update UI directly)
>
> >From my point of view the difference between A and C is irrelevant on the
> model (MVC context here) level, as the model should not care which elements
> the UI/view subscribes.
>
> The difference between B and C might be somehow more
> relevant, especially if the only composite information for specific UI
> elements. Then it would make sense to move those into a controller layer, but
> they could still follow the ModelObject observer pattern.
>
> Another suggestion is those objects that have a state of their owns (type A
> and C thus get changed by Moves) implement a Moveable interface to identify
> those.
>
> Stefan
>
> On Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:19:35 pm brett lentz wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
>> > Turn-based boardgames are effectively state machines.  I'm not sure I
>> > can think of a model object that should be stateless.
>> >
>> > Certain parts of the view (in an MVC world) can and should be
>> > stateless, but the model *is* the state of the application (read:
>> > game).
>> >
>> > [EV] Of course there is always some form of state behind a model, but
>> > often it is not a single state. For instance, the views that give you a
>> > list of available trains, or the player worth, or a share percentage,
>> > have models that depend on some calculated value, which is not an
>> > independent state itself.
>>
>> Correct. This is where MVC tends to be an improvement to just an MV
>> design. Typically, the controller possesses the "business rules" that
>> derives those calculated values from the model.
>>
>> Originally, we started with a Model-View design. It's probably time to
>> work on cleaning up the distinction between Model and Controller, and
>> making that distinction to help clarify which is which.
>>
>> > Erik.
>>
>> ---Brett.

Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game history

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Chris:
I believe that this was a misunderstanding:
All settings that effect UI only are defined in configuration and stored in 
the configuration profiles.
Those settings are easily player specific for pbem play.
In the next release there will be a default profile for pbem and ftf play. 
Stefan

On Thursday, September 02, 2010 05:33:50 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
> I'd rather have it set for each player in their configuration, as two
> players in the same game might have different commenting preferences.  I
> imagine Player A who always wants to comment before actions, and Player B
> who always wants to comment after actions.  It seems to be a personal
> preference, not a per-game preference.
> 
> --
> Chris
> 
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:31 PM, brett lentz <bre...@gm...> wrote:
> > This is a good option to have under a category of PBEM-oriented startup
> > options.
> > 
> > ---Brett.
> > 
> > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:
> > > Seconded!
> > > 
> > > On 2 September 2010 03:15, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
> > 
> > wrote:
> > >> That would be very, very nice.
> > >> 
> > >> --
> > >> Chris
> > >> 
> > >> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> > >> 
> > >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> > >>> All those comments help to get a better understanding, how your pbem
> > >>> gaming
> > >>> works: It can be that a direct usage of the dashboard with java
> > 
> > dashboard
> > 
> > >>> classes is more robust..
> > >>> 
> > >>> Is anyone interested into the following?
> > >>> 
> > >>> Every time the active player changes.
> > >>> A) A save file dialog opens with the usual suggested filename.
> > >>> B) If the save occurs, the output of the game report of the last
> > >>> active player
> > >>> is shown in a text field, which allows editing.
> > >>> C) After editing and confirmation the content is automatically pasted
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >>> the
> > >>> clipboard.
> > >>> 
> > >>> Stefan
> > >>> 
> > >>> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:36 am Phil Davies wrote:
> > >>> > Additional when Dropbox goes wonky (as it is occasionally wont to
> > >>> > do) and you haven't yet got the previous file, you can at least
> > >>> > play
> > 
> > catch
> > 
> > >>> > up and execute the previous players actions for them.
> > >>> > 
> > >>> > For my personal uses, I play over instant messenger most of the
> > >>> > time and copy/paste works into a google chat window fine on my
> > >>> > machine.
> > >>> > 
> > >>> > On 1 September 2010 00:50, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
> > >>> > 
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> > > This is the use case for me too. Every group with which I've
> > >>> > > played Rails
> > >>> > > by email includes a copy/paste of the most current action, or the
> > >>> > > entire
> > >>> > > current round, in the email so people can follow the action
> > >>> > > without loading each individual save file.
> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > This is partly an issue because loading save files is a bit
> > >>> > > clunky,
> > 
> > as
> > 
> > >>> > > noted in a previous email where someone pointed out that you have
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >>> > > completely exit the program in order to load a new file. 
> > >>> > > However, even
> > >>> > > if it were easy to load files, the textual summaries are a nice
> > >>> > > way
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >>> > > track on multiple games in email, and are also useful when people
> > 
> > are
> > 
> > >>> > > in
> > >>> > > environments (e.g. work, smartphone) where they can't load the
> > >>> > > save file.
> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > --
> > >>> > > Chris
> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Steve Undy <
> > 
> > ste...@gm...>
> > 
> > >>> > > wrote:
> > >>> > >> The use model I'm familiar with (there are probably others)
> > 
> > involves
> > 
> > >>> > >> using DropBox to share/distribute the save file and sending an
> > 
> > email
> > 
> > >>> > >> reminder to the players with an excerpt from the report window
> > 
> > that
> > 
> > >>> > >> describes the latest move.  This way, all players can keep track
> > 
> > of
> > 
> > >>> > >> what is happening in the game without having to open the save
> > 
> > file.
> > 
> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
> > >>> > >> 
> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Stefan Frey
> > >>> > >> <ste...@we...>
> > >>> > >> 
> > >>> > >> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> It seems that this can be narrowed down to a problem that
> > >>> > >>> occurs
> > 
> > in
> > 
> > >>> > >>> combination with Firefox only.
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> Interestingly it works on my system perfectly, even copying
> > >>> > >>> into
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > >>> > >>> web-email
> > >>> > >>> clients that I use (actually its is more a "do not use", I
> > >>> > >>> prefer IMAP
> > >>> > >>> clients). My firefox version is 3.6.8.
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> A quick google search brings up:
> > >>> > >>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Clipboard_not_working
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> Especially have a look at the paragraph about the rich text
> > 
> > client.
> > 
> > >>> > >>> Copy&paste is still something which is strongly desktop/OS
> > 
> > dependent
> > 
> > >>> > >>> and was
> > >>> > >>> the main reason to keep the previous ("static") report window.
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> If someone comes up with a suggestion how to solve that, I am
> > 
> > happy
> > 
> > >>> > >>> to
> > >>> > >>> add the
> > >>> > >>> solution to the code. May I ask what the use case for this
> > 
> > procedure
> > 
> > >>> > >>> is? Why
> > >>> > >>> not mailing the rails game file instead of the report?
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> Stefan
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2010 07:04:36 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > Testing on Mac shows that you can copy/paste into a Firefox
> > 
> > edit
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > window.
> > >>> > >>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > Despite our desire to avoid Windows, a significant portion of
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > player
> > >>> > >>> > base are Windows users.  Many of them are not technically
> > >>> > >>> > proficient
> > >>> > >>> > enough
> > >>> > >>> > to switch, nor should we try to force them to do so.
> > >>> > >>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > I will test on Windows and Ubuntu this evening.
> > >>> > >>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > --
> > >>> > >>> > Chris
> > >>> > >>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> > >>> > >>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Steve Undy
> > >>> > >>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > > OK, very interesting.  Cut-and-paste works from the report
> > >>> > >>> > > window
> > >>> > >>> > > into
> > >>> > >>> > > Notepad, but not directly into a Firefox edit window.  But
> > 
> > you
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > > can
> > >>> > >>> > > cut-and-paste from that Notepad window into Firefox. 
> > >>> > >>> > > Another reason to
> > >>> > >>> > > avoid Windows.
> > >>> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > > (sorry about all the chatter on this)
> > >>> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > > Steve Undy
> > >>> > >>> > > st...@ro...
> > >>> > >>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Steve Undy
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >> I agree with Chris: It looks like cut-and-paste doesn't
> > >>> > >>> > >> work from
> > >>> > >>> > >> the
> > >>> > >>> > >> new report window on Windows (at least not on XP).
> > >>> > >>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
> > >>> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
> > >>> > >>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Chris Shaffer
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> <chr...@gm...>wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>> Interestingly, it works on my Mac at work.  I'll do more
> > >>> > >>> > >>> testing
> > >>> > >>> > >>> when I
> > >>> > >>> > >>> get home tonight.
> > >>> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>> --
> > >>> > >>> > >>> Chris
> > >>> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please consider the environment before printing this
> > 
> > e-mail.
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Steve Undy
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hmmm.  Copying from the report window works OK on my
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> linux system.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve Undy
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> st...@ro...
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Shaffer
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> <chr...@gm...
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm using 1.4 now, and I can't seem to copy text from
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> the new
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> report
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> window to paste it into an email.  I've tried on both
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Windows
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> and Ubuntu Linux, with the configuration "report window
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> editable" checked and unchecked on both systems.  Any
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> suggestions?
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> --
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Chris
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> Please consider the environment before printing this
> > 
> > e-mail.
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Stefan Frey
> > >>> > >>> 
> > >>> > >>> <ste...@we...>wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Chris & Erik:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * Fixed the missing newline in copy&paste from the new
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> report
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> window
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> (google is your friend).
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * There is a new configuration window now, which
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> allows
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> set
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> options via an
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> UI. I will add some code (similar to the one  font
> > 
> > changes)
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that makes the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> change immediate and does not require a reload.
> > 
> > Supplying
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> both
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> simultaneously
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> would be possible, but might bring more confusion to
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> newbies
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> benefits to
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the experts?
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * I could change the (static/legacy) report window to
> > 
> > the
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> new
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> behavior of
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> clearing undone actions instead of appending undoing,
> > 
> > but
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> then
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> difference
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> between the two is merely formatting and the
> > 
> > availability
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks. Then
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> it is easier to deactivate the formatting and
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks than
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> to support two
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> different subclasses of the ReportWindow.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> There are two reasons to keep the static version:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> A) For me the static window acts as an accounting
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> trail, thus
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> keeps
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> track of
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undos explicitly.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> B) For (quite old) computers (or handhelds if Rails
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> gets portable in
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> future) the JEditorPane is a drag on performance and
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the whole
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> content is
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> updated after each action instead of appending as in
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the static case.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Stefan
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:31:15 am Chris Shaffer
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > In that case, could there be an option to enable
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > both report
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> windows, so
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > users can switch back and forth between them within
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > a single
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > game?
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>  
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>  And
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>>  
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > without requiring them to edit configuration files
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > and reload? I'd
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hate to
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have to choose between one or the other, since they
> > 
> > both
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have lots
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > utility.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > --
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Chris
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Please consider the environment before printing this
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > e-mail.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > <eri...@xs...>
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  I found that you can do that, but at the rather
> > 
> > severe
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > penalty
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  of
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> losing
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > all end-of lines. The report becomes one long
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > line. Better keep to the (what Stefan in his
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > wisdom
> > 
> > disposes
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as)
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> "legacy"
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > report if you want to save or copy it.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Erik.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  ------------------------------
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:
> > chr...@gm...]
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday 11 August 2010 21:17
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > history
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Is it still possible to copy text from the Report
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > window
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > for
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> pasting into
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > an email?
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > --
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Chris
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > this e-mail.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stefan Frey
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > <ste...@we...>
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The linked movesets in the CGR 1856 merger
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> inspired
> > 
> > a
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> feature
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> proved to
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> be surprisingly easy (as it leverages on the
> > 
> > excellent
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> move/state mechanisms
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> in Rails). The downside is that it can be
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> effected
> > 
> > by
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> all
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undo
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> related bugs, but the number of those was on the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> decrease
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> lately.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The report window now acts as game history: There
> > 
> > are
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> hyperlinks
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> for
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> each action. Clicking on any of those lets Rails
> > 
> > jump
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> that
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> game
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> situation (by
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> calling undo repeatedly). Return to a later
> > 
> > position
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> possible
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> unless
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> an action is taken (as it is the case for
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> standard redo).
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I also
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> added
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> two buttons (<< and >>) to allow single-step
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> moves.
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The old report window (which is editable) can be
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> activated via
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Configuration menu (or setting report.window.type
> > 
> > to
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> static in
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> legacy configfiles).
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Stefan
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ----
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> ------ This SF.net email is sponsored by
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Make an app they can't live without
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rai...@li...
> > 
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ -----
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> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Make an app they can't live without
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> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rails-devel mailing list
> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rai...@li...
> > 
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
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> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel

Re: [Rails-devel] Some (multi-)undo related bugs

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

Brett & Erik:
Depending on the interpretation of model and state (general idea, pattern 
context, Rails context) I can agree/disagree with all your statements below.

Example: If model is simply the whole set of data/structure of an 18xx game, 
and if state is defined as something that change its structure /behavior 
/properties at runtime, then I disagree (think definition of tracks on tiles).
If we define model as all classes that inherit ModelObject and state as above, 
than I easily agree.   

So I try to clearly identify my interpretation my take simply is: Parts of the 
(game) model, which change their state (as defined above) directly/indirectly, 
extend ModelObject. There is no substantial difference, if the UI subscribe to 
the object or if only other part of the (game) model.

Thus I suggest do derive all three cases below from ModelObject:
A) First-class model objects (have state of its own, update UI directly)
B) Derived model objects (derive their state from A) or C) type objects, but 
update UI directly)
C) State objects  (have state of its own, but do not update UI directly)

From my point of view the difference between A and C is irrelevant on the 
model (MVC context here) level, as the model should not care which elements 
the UI/view subscribes.

The difference between B and C might be somehow more 
relevant, especially if the only composite information for specific UI 
elements. Then it would make sense to move those into a controller layer, but 
they could still follow the ModelObject observer pattern. 

Another suggestion is those objects that have a state of their owns (type A 
and C thus get changed by Moves) implement a Moveable interface to identify 
those.  

Stefan

On Thursday, September 02, 2010 10:19:35 pm brett lentz wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> > Turn-based boardgames are effectively state machines.  I'm not sure I
> > can think of a model object that should be stateless.
> > 
> > Certain parts of the view (in an MVC world) can and should be
> > stateless, but the model *is* the state of the application (read:
> > game).
> > 
> > [EV] Of course there is always some form of state behind a model, but
> > often it is not a single state. For instance, the views that give you a
> > list of available trains, or the player worth, or a share percentage,
> > have models that depend on some calculated value, which is not an
> > independent state itself.
> 
> Correct. This is where MVC tends to be an improvement to just an MV
> design. Typically, the controller possesses the "business rules" that
> derives those calculated values from the model.
> 
> Originally, we started with a Model-View design. It's probably time to
> work on cleaning up the distinction between Model and Controller, and
> making that distinction to help clarify which is which.
> 
> > Erik.
> 
> ---Brett.
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Rails-devel] Some (multi-)undo related bugs

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> Turn-based boardgames are effectively state machines.  I'm not sure I
> can think of a model object that should be stateless.
>
> Certain parts of the view (in an MVC world) can and should be
> stateless, but the model *is* the state of the application (read:
> game).
>
> [EV] Of course there is always some form of state behind a model, but often
> it is not a single state. For instance, the views that give you a list of
> available trains, or the player worth, or a share percentage, have models
> that depend on some calculated value, which is not an independent state
> itself.

Correct. This is where MVC tends to be an improvement to just an MV
design. Typically, the controller possesses the "business rules" that
derives those calculated values from the model.

Originally, we started with a Model-View design. It's probably time to
work on cleaning up the distinction between Model and Controller, and
making that distinction to help clarify which is which.

>
> Erik.
>

---Brett.

[Rails-devel] 1837

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

-----Original Message-----
From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...] 
Sent: Friday 11 June 2010 06:46
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Fwd: [ rails-Bugs-3013209 ] 1835 stack order from
IPO can be messed up

I'm hoping that 1837 will make the list fairly soon; it doesn't have too
many differences from 1835, and most of those are 1830-like differences.

[EV] There is one major difference: the hexagonal stock price chart.  While
not rocket science, it's big enough of a step to reduce the likelihood that
1837 will be done very soon (unless there would be overwhelming demand, of
course, but I doubt).

(Sorry for the late answer).

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Some (multi-)undo related bugs

[Erik V. <eri...@xs...>]

Turn-based boardgames are effectively state machines.  I'm not sure I
can think of a model object that should be stateless.

Certain parts of the view (in an MVC world) can and should be
stateless, but the model *is* the state of the application (read:
game).

[EV] Of course there is always some form of state behind a model, but often
it is not a single state. For instance, the views that give you a list of
available trains, or the player worth, or a share percentage, have models
that depend on some calculated value, which is not an independent state
itself.

Erik.

Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game history

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

Whoops, as I hit send I realized I was responding to the wrong topic. You
are correct, this would be a nice PBEM game setup option.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>wrote:

> I'd rather have it set for each player in their configuration, as two
> players in the same game might have different commenting preferences.  I
> imagine Player A who always wants to comment before actions, and Player B
> who always wants to comment after actions.  It seems to be a personal
> preference, not a per-game preference.
>
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:31 PM, brett lentz <bre...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> This is a good option to have under a category of PBEM-oriented startup
>> options.
>>
>> ---Brett.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:
>> > Seconded!
>> >
>> > On 2 September 2010 03:15, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>> >> That would be very, very nice.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chris
>> >>
>> >> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> All those comments help to get a better understanding, how your pbem
>> >>> gaming
>> >>> works: It can be that a direct usage of the dashboard with java
>> dashboard
>> >>> classes is more robust..
>> >>>
>> >>> Is anyone interested into the following?
>> >>>
>> >>> Every time the active player changes.
>> >>> A) A save file dialog opens with the usual suggested filename.
>> >>> B) If the save occurs, the output of the game report of the last
>> active
>> >>> player
>> >>> is shown in a text field, which allows editing.
>> >>> C) After editing and confirmation the content is automatically pasted
>> to
>> >>> the
>> >>> clipboard.
>> >>>
>> >>> Stefan
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:36 am Phil Davies wrote:
>> >>> > Additional when Dropbox goes wonky (as it is occasionally wont to
>> do)
>> >>> > and you haven't yet got the previous file, you can at least play
>> catch
>> >>> > up and execute the previous players actions for them.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > For my personal uses, I play over instant messenger most of the time
>> >>> > and copy/paste works into a google chat window fine on my machine.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On 1 September 2010 00:50, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> > > This is the use case for me too. Every group with which I've
>> played
>> >>> > > Rails
>> >>> > > by email includes a copy/paste of the most current action, or the
>> >>> > > entire
>> >>> > > current round, in the email so people can follow the action
>> without
>> >>> > > loading each individual save file.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > This is partly an issue because loading save files is a bit
>> clunky, as
>> >>> > > noted in a previous email where someone pointed out that you have
>> to
>> >>> > > completely exit the program in order to load a new file.  However,
>> >>> > > even
>> >>> > > if it were easy to load files, the textual summaries are a nice
>> way to
>> >>> > > track on multiple games in email, and are also useful when people
>> are
>> >>> > > in
>> >>> > > environments (e.g. work, smartphone) where they can't load the
>> save
>> >>> > > file.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > --
>> >>> > > Chris
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Steve Undy <
>> ste...@gm...>
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > wrote:
>> >>> > >> The use model I'm familiar with (there are probably others)
>> involves
>> >>> > >> using DropBox to share/distribute the save file and sending an
>> email
>> >>> > >> reminder to the players with an excerpt from the report window
>> that
>> >>> > >> describes the latest move.  This way, all players can keep track
>> of
>> >>> > >> what is happening in the game without having to open the save
>> file.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Steve Undy
>> >>> > >> st...@ro...
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...
>> >
>> >>> > >> wrote:
>> >>> > >>> It seems that this can be narrowed down to a problem that occurs
>> in
>> >>> > >>> combination with Firefox only.
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> Interestingly it works on my system perfectly, even copying into
>> the
>> >>> > >>> web-email
>> >>> > >>> clients that I use (actually its is more a "do not use", I
>> prefer
>> >>> > >>> IMAP
>> >>> > >>> clients). My firefox version is 3.6.8.
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> A quick google search brings up:
>> >>> > >>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Clipboard_not_working
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> Especially have a look at the paragraph about the rich text
>> client.
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> Copy&paste is still something which is strongly desktop/OS
>> dependent
>> >>> > >>> and was
>> >>> > >>> the main reason to keep the previous ("static") report window.
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> If someone comes up with a suggestion how to solve that, I am
>> happy
>> >>> > >>> to
>> >>> > >>> add the
>> >>> > >>> solution to the code. May I ask what the use case for this
>> procedure
>> >>> > >>> is? Why
>> >>> > >>> not mailing the rails game file instead of the report?
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> Stefan
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2010 07:04:36 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > Testing on Mac shows that you can copy/paste into a Firefox
>> edit
>> >>> > >>> > window.
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> > >>> > Despite our desire to avoid Windows, a significant portion of
>> the
>> >>> > >>> > player
>> >>> > >>> > base are Windows users.  Many of them are not technically
>> >>> > >>> > proficient
>> >>> > >>> > enough
>> >>> > >>> > to switch, nor should we try to force them to do so.
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> > >>> > I will test on Windows and Ubuntu this evening.
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> > >>> > --
>> >>> > >>> > Chris
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> > >>> > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Steve Undy
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> > >>> > <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > > OK, very interesting.  Cut-and-paste works from the report
>> >>> > >>> > > window
>> >>> > >>> > > into
>> >>> > >>> > > Notepad, but not directly into a Firefox edit window.  But
>> you
>> >>> > >>> > > can
>> >>> > >>> > > cut-and-paste from that Notepad window into Firefox.
>>  Another
>> >>> > >>> > > reason to
>> >>> > >>> > > avoid Windows.
>> >>> > >>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > > (sorry about all the chatter on this)
>> >>> > >>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > > Steve Undy
>> >>> > >>> > > st...@ro...
>> >>> > >>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Steve Undy
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >> I agree with Chris: It looks like cut-and-paste doesn't
>> work
>> >>> > >>> > >> from
>> >>> > >>> > >> the
>> >>> > >>> > >> new report window on Windows (at least not on XP).
>> >>> > >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
>> >>> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
>> >>> > >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Chris Shaffer
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> <chr...@gm...>wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>> Interestingly, it works on my Mac at work.  I'll do more
>> >>> > >>> > >>> testing
>> >>> > >>> > >>> when I
>> >>> > >>> > >>> get home tonight.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>> --
>> >>> > >>> > >>> Chris
>> >>> > >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>> Please consider the environment before printing this
>> e-mail.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Steve Undy
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> Hmmm.  Copying from the report window works OK on my
>> linux
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> system.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve Undy
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> st...@ro...
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Shaffer
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> <chr...@gm...
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> > wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm using 1.4 now, and I can't seem to copy text from
>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> new
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> report
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> window to paste it into an email.  I've tried on both
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Windows
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> and Ubuntu Linux, with the configuration "report window
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> editable" checked and unchecked on both systems.  Any
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> suggestions?
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> --
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Chris
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Please consider the environment before printing this
>> e-mail.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Stefan Frey
>> >>> > >>>
>> >>> > >>> <ste...@we...>wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Chris & Erik:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * Fixed the missing newline in copy&paste from the new
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> report
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> window
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> (google is your friend).
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * There is a new configuration window now, which allows
>> to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> set
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> options via an
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> UI. I will add some code (similar to the one  font
>> changes)
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that makes the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> change immediate and does not require a reload.
>> Supplying
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> both
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> simultaneously
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> would be possible, but might bring more confusion to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> newbies
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> benefits to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the experts?
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * I could change the (static/legacy) report window to
>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> new
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> behavior of
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> clearing undone actions instead of appending undoing,
>> but
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> then
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> difference
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> between the two is merely formatting and the
>> availability
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks. Then
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> it is easier to deactivate the formatting and
>> hyperlinks
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> to support two
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> different subclasses of the ReportWindow.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> There are two reasons to keep the static version:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> A) For me the static window acts as an accounting
>> trail,
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> thus
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> keeps
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> track of
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undos explicitly.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> B) For (quite old) computers (or handhelds if Rails
>> gets
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> portable in
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> future) the JEditorPane is a drag on performance and
>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> whole
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> content is
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> updated after each action instead of appending as in
>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> static case.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Stefan
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:31:15 am Chris Shaffer
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > In that case, could there be an option to enable both
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > report
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> windows, so
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > users can switch back and forth between them within a
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > single
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > game?
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>  And
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > without requiring them to edit configuration files
>> and
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > reload? I'd
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hate to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have to choose between one or the other, since they
>> both
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have lots
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > utility.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > --
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Chris
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Please consider the environment before printing this
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > e-mail.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > <eri...@xs...>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  I found that you can do that, but at the rather
>> severe
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > penalty
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  of
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> losing
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > all end-of lines. The report becomes one long line.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Better keep to the (what Stefan in his wisdom
>> disposes
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as)
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> "legacy"
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > report if you want to save or copy it.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Erik.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  ------------------------------
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:
>> chr...@gm...]
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday 11 August 2010 21:17
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > history
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Is it still possible to copy text from the Report
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > window
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > for
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> pasting into
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > an email?
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > --
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Chris
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing
>> this
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > e-mail.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stefan Frey
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > <ste...@we...>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The linked movesets in the CGR 1856 merger
>> inspired a
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> feature
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> proved to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> be surprisingly easy (as it leverages on the
>> excellent
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> move/state mechanisms
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> in Rails). The downside is that it can be effected
>> by
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> all
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undo
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> related bugs, but the number of those was on the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> decrease
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> lately.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The report window now acts as game history: There
>> are
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> hyperlinks
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> for
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> each action. Clicking on any of those lets Rails
>> jump
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> that
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> game
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> situation (by
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> calling undo repeatedly). Return to a later
>> position
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> possible
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> unless
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> an action is taken (as it is the case for standard
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> redo).
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I also
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> added
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> two buttons (<< and >>) to allow single-step
>> moves.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The old report window (which is editable) can be
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> activated via
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Configuration menu (or setting report.window.type
>> to
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> static in
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> legacy configfiles).
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Stefan
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ----
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> ------ This SF.net email is sponsored by
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rai...@li...
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ -----
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > ----- This SF.net email is sponsored by
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rails-devel mailing list
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rai...@li...
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ---------- This SF.net email is sponsored by
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Make an app they can't live without
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rai...@li...
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> ------ --------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored
>> by:
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Rai...@li...
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> >>> > >>> > >>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >>> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> > >>> > >>>> Rails-devel mailing list
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>> >>> > >>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > >>> ------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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>> >>> > >>> Rails-devel mailing list
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>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > >> ------ This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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>> >>> > >> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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>> >>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
>> >>> > >> Rai...@li...
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>
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game history

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

I'd rather have it set for each player in their configuration, as two
players in the same game might have different commenting preferences.  I
imagine Player A who always wants to comment before actions, and Player B
who always wants to comment after actions.  It seems to be a personal
preference, not a per-game preference.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:31 PM, brett lentz <bre...@gm...> wrote:

> This is a good option to have under a category of PBEM-oriented startup
> options.
>
> ---Brett.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:
> > Seconded!
> >
> > On 2 September 2010 03:15, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
> wrote:
> >> That would be very, very nice.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Chris
> >>
> >> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> All those comments help to get a better understanding, how your pbem
> >>> gaming
> >>> works: It can be that a direct usage of the dashboard with java
> dashboard
> >>> classes is more robust..
> >>>
> >>> Is anyone interested into the following?
> >>>
> >>> Every time the active player changes.
> >>> A) A save file dialog opens with the usual suggested filename.
> >>> B) If the save occurs, the output of the game report of the last active
> >>> player
> >>> is shown in a text field, which allows editing.
> >>> C) After editing and confirmation the content is automatically pasted
> to
> >>> the
> >>> clipboard.
> >>>
> >>> Stefan
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:36 am Phil Davies wrote:
> >>> > Additional when Dropbox goes wonky (as it is occasionally wont to do)
> >>> > and you haven't yet got the previous file, you can at least play
> catch
> >>> > up and execute the previous players actions for them.
> >>> >
> >>> > For my personal uses, I play over instant messenger most of the time
> >>> > and copy/paste works into a google chat window fine on my machine.
> >>> >
> >>> > On 1 September 2010 00:50, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > > This is the use case for me too. Every group with which I've played
> >>> > > Rails
> >>> > > by email includes a copy/paste of the most current action, or the
> >>> > > entire
> >>> > > current round, in the email so people can follow the action without
> >>> > > loading each individual save file.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > This is partly an issue because loading save files is a bit clunky,
> as
> >>> > > noted in a previous email where someone pointed out that you have
> to
> >>> > > completely exit the program in order to load a new file.  However,
> >>> > > even
> >>> > > if it were easy to load files, the textual summaries are a nice way
> to
> >>> > > track on multiple games in email, and are also useful when people
> are
> >>> > > in
> >>> > > environments (e.g. work, smartphone) where they can't load the save
> >>> > > file.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --
> >>> > > Chris
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Steve Undy <
> ste...@gm...>
> >>> > >
> >>> > > wrote:
> >>> > >> The use model I'm familiar with (there are probably others)
> involves
> >>> > >> using DropBox to share/distribute the save file and sending an
> email
> >>> > >> reminder to the players with an excerpt from the report window
> that
> >>> > >> describes the latest move.  This way, all players can keep track
> of
> >>> > >> what is happening in the game without having to open the save
> file.
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Steve Undy
> >>> > >> st...@ro...
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
> >>> > >> wrote:
> >>> > >>> It seems that this can be narrowed down to a problem that occurs
> in
> >>> > >>> combination with Firefox only.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> Interestingly it works on my system perfectly, even copying into
> the
> >>> > >>> web-email
> >>> > >>> clients that I use (actually its is more a "do not use", I prefer
> >>> > >>> IMAP
> >>> > >>> clients). My firefox version is 3.6.8.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> A quick google search brings up:
> >>> > >>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Clipboard_not_working
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> Especially have a look at the paragraph about the rich text
> client.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> Copy&paste is still something which is strongly desktop/OS
> dependent
> >>> > >>> and was
> >>> > >>> the main reason to keep the previous ("static") report window.
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> If someone comes up with a suggestion how to solve that, I am
> happy
> >>> > >>> to
> >>> > >>> add the
> >>> > >>> solution to the code. May I ask what the use case for this
> procedure
> >>> > >>> is? Why
> >>> > >>> not mailing the rails game file instead of the report?
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> Stefan
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2010 07:04:36 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
> >>> > >>> > Testing on Mac shows that you can copy/paste into a Firefox
> edit
> >>> > >>> > window.
> >>> > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > Despite our desire to avoid Windows, a significant portion of
> the
> >>> > >>> > player
> >>> > >>> > base are Windows users.  Many of them are not technically
> >>> > >>> > proficient
> >>> > >>> > enough
> >>> > >>> > to switch, nor should we try to force them to do so.
> >>> > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > I will test on Windows and Ubuntu this evening.
> >>> > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > --
> >>> > >>> > Chris
> >>> > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
> >>> > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Steve Undy
> >>> > >>> >
> >>> > >>> > <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> >>> > >>> > > OK, very interesting.  Cut-and-paste works from the report
> >>> > >>> > > window
> >>> > >>> > > into
> >>> > >>> > > Notepad, but not directly into a Firefox edit window.  But
> you
> >>> > >>> > > can
> >>> > >>> > > cut-and-paste from that Notepad window into Firefox.  Another
> >>> > >>> > > reason to
> >>> > >>> > > avoid Windows.
> >>> > >>> > >
> >>> > >>> > > (sorry about all the chatter on this)
> >>> > >>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >
> >>> > >>> > > Steve Undy
> >>> > >>> > > st...@ro...
> >>> > >>> > >
> >>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Steve Undy
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >> I agree with Chris: It looks like cut-and-paste doesn't work
> >>> > >>> > >> from
> >>> > >>> > >> the
> >>> > >>> > >> new report window on Windows (at least not on XP).
> >>> > >>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
> >>> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
> >>> > >>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Chris Shaffer
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> <chr...@gm...>wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>> Interestingly, it works on my Mac at work.  I'll do more
> >>> > >>> > >>> testing
> >>> > >>> > >>> when I
> >>> > >>> > >>> get home tonight.
> >>> > >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> > >>> --
> >>> > >>> > >>> Chris
> >>> > >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> > >>> Please consider the environment before printing this
> e-mail.
> >>> > >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Steve Undy
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>>> Hmmm.  Copying from the report window works OK on my linux
> >>> > >>> > >>>> system.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>> Steve Undy
> >>> > >>> > >>>> st...@ro...
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Shaffer
> >>> > >>> > >>>> <chr...@gm...
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>> > wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm using 1.4 now, and I can't seem to copy text from the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> new
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> report
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> window to paste it into an email.  I've tried on both
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Windows
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> and Ubuntu Linux, with the configuration "report window
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> editable" checked and unchecked on both systems.  Any
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> suggestions?
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> --
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Chris
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Please consider the environment before printing this
> e-mail.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Stefan Frey
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> <ste...@we...>wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Chris & Erik:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * Fixed the missing newline in copy&paste from the new
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> report
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> window
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> (google is your friend).
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * There is a new configuration window now, which allows
> to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> set
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> options via an
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> UI. I will add some code (similar to the one  font
> changes)
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that makes the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> change immediate and does not require a reload.
> Supplying
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> both
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> simultaneously
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> would be possible, but might bring more confusion to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> newbies
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> benefits to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the experts?
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> * I could change the (static/legacy) report window to
> the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> new
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> behavior of
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> clearing undone actions instead of appending undoing,
> but
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> then
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> difference
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> between the two is merely formatting and the
> availability
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks. Then
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> it is easier to deactivate the formatting and hyperlinks
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> to support two
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> different subclasses of the ReportWindow.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> There are two reasons to keep the static version:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> A) For me the static window acts as an accounting trail,
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> thus
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> keeps
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> track of
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undos explicitly.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> B) For (quite old) computers (or handhelds if Rails gets
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> portable in
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> future) the JEditorPane is a drag on performance and the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> whole
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> content is
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> updated after each action instead of appending as in the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> static case.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Stefan
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:31:15 am Chris Shaffer
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > In that case, could there be an option to enable both
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > report
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> windows, so
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > users can switch back and forth between them within a
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > single
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > game?
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>  And
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > without requiring them to edit configuration files and
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > reload? I'd
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hate to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have to choose between one or the other, since they
> both
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have lots
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > utility.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > --
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Chris
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Please consider the environment before printing this
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > e-mail.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > <eri...@xs...>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  I found that you can do that, but at the rather
> severe
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > penalty
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  of
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> losing
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > all end-of lines. The report becomes one long line.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Better keep to the (what Stefan in his wisdom
> disposes
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as)
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> "legacy"
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > report if you want to save or copy it.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Erik.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  ------------------------------
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:
> chr...@gm...]
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday 11 August 2010 21:17
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > history
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Is it still possible to copy text from the Report
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > window
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > for
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> pasting into
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > an email?
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > --
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Chris
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > e-mail.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stefan Frey
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > <ste...@we...>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The linked movesets in the CGR 1856 merger inspired
> a
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> feature
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> that
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> proved to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> be surprisingly easy (as it leverages on the
> excellent
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> move/state mechanisms
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> in Rails). The downside is that it can be effected
> by
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> all
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> undo
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> related bugs, but the number of those was on the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> decrease
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> lately.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The report window now acts as game history: There
> are
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> hyperlinks
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> for
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> each action. Clicking on any of those lets Rails
> jump
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> that
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> game
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> situation (by
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> calling undo repeatedly). Return to a later
> position
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> possible
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> unless
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> an action is taken (as it is the case for standard
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> redo).
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I also
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> added
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> two buttons (<< and >>) to allow single-step moves.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The old report window (which is editable) can be
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> activated via
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Configuration menu (or setting report.window.type
> to
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> static in
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> legacy configfiles).
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Stefan
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ----
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> ------ This SF.net email is sponsored by
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Make an app they can't live without
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rai...@li...
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ -----
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > ----- This SF.net email is sponsored by
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Make an app they can't live without
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rai...@li...
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ---------- This SF.net email is sponsored by
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Make an app they can't live without
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rai...@li...
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> ------ --------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored
> by:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> > >>> > >>>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> Rai...@li...
> >>> > >>> > >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>> > >>>> ------ -------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>> > >>> > >>>>
> >>> > >>> > >>>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> > >>> > >>>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> > >>> > >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>> > >>>> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >>> > >>>> Rai...@li...
> >>> > >>> > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >>> ------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>> > >>>
> >>> > >>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> > >>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> > >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> > >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >>> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >>> Rai...@li...
> >>> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > >> ------ This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>> > >>
> >>> > >> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> > >> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> > >> _______________________________________________
> >>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > >> Rai...@li...
> >>> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > > ----- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> > > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>> > > Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > > Rai...@li...
> >>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > --- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>> >
> >>> > Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> > Rai...@li...
> >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>>
> >>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Rails-devel mailing list
> >>> Rai...@li...
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >>
> >> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> >> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game history

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

This is a good option to have under a category of PBEM-oriented startup options.

---Brett.



On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Phil Davies <de...@gm...> wrote:
> Seconded!
>
> On 2 September 2010 03:15, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
>> That would be very, very nice.
>>
>> --
>> Chris
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
>>>
>>> All those comments help to get a better understanding, how your pbem
>>> gaming
>>> works: It can be that a direct usage of the dashboard with java dashboard
>>> classes is more robust..
>>>
>>> Is anyone interested into the following?
>>>
>>> Every time the active player changes.
>>> A) A save file dialog opens with the usual suggested filename.
>>> B) If the save occurs, the output of the game report of the last active
>>> player
>>> is shown in a text field, which allows editing.
>>> C) After editing and confirmation the content is automatically pasted to
>>> the
>>> clipboard.
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:36 am Phil Davies wrote:
>>> > Additional when Dropbox goes wonky (as it is occasionally wont to do)
>>> > and you haven't yet got the previous file, you can at least play catch
>>> > up and execute the previous players actions for them.
>>> >
>>> > For my personal uses, I play over instant messenger most of the time
>>> > and copy/paste works into a google chat window fine on my machine.
>>> >
>>> > On 1 September 2010 00:50, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > This is the use case for me too. Every group with which I've played
>>> > > Rails
>>> > > by email includes a copy/paste of the most current action, or the
>>> > > entire
>>> > > current round, in the email so people can follow the action without
>>> > > loading each individual save file.
>>> > >
>>> > > This is partly an issue because loading save files is a bit clunky, as
>>> > > noted in a previous email where someone pointed out that you have to
>>> > > completely exit the program in order to load a new file.  However,
>>> > > even
>>> > > if it were easy to load files, the textual summaries are a nice way to
>>> > > track on multiple games in email, and are also useful when people are
>>> > > in
>>> > > environments (e.g. work, smartphone) where they can't load the save
>>> > > file.
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Chris
>>> > >
>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Steve Undy <ste...@gm...>
>>> > >
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >> The use model I'm familiar with (there are probably others) involves
>>> > >> using DropBox to share/distribute the save file and sending an email
>>> > >> reminder to the players with an excerpt from the report window that
>>> > >> describes the latest move.  This way, all players can keep track of
>>> > >> what is happening in the game without having to open the save file.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Steve Undy
>>> > >> st...@ro...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>>> > >> wrote:
>>> > >>> It seems that this can be narrowed down to a problem that occurs in
>>> > >>> combination with Firefox only.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Interestingly it works on my system perfectly, even copying into the
>>> > >>> web-email
>>> > >>> clients that I use (actually its is more a "do not use", I prefer
>>> > >>> IMAP
>>> > >>> clients). My firefox version is 3.6.8.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> A quick google search brings up:
>>> > >>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Clipboard_not_working
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Especially have a look at the paragraph about the rich text client.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Copy&paste is still something which is strongly desktop/OS dependent
>>> > >>> and was
>>> > >>> the main reason to keep the previous ("static") report window.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> If someone comes up with a suggestion how to solve that, I am happy
>>> > >>> to
>>> > >>> add the
>>> > >>> solution to the code. May I ask what the use case for this procedure
>>> > >>> is? Why
>>> > >>> not mailing the rails game file instead of the report?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Stefan
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2010 07:04:36 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
>>> > >>> > Testing on Mac shows that you can copy/paste into a Firefox edit
>>> > >>> > window.
>>> > >>> >
>>> > >>> > Despite our desire to avoid Windows, a significant portion of the
>>> > >>> > player
>>> > >>> > base are Windows users.  Many of them are not technically
>>> > >>> > proficient
>>> > >>> > enough
>>> > >>> > to switch, nor should we try to force them to do so.
>>> > >>> >
>>> > >>> > I will test on Windows and Ubuntu this evening.
>>> > >>> >
>>> > >>> > --
>>> > >>> > Chris
>>> > >>> >
>>> > >>> > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>> > >>> >
>>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Steve Undy
>>> > >>> >
>>> > >>> > <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>>> > >>> > > OK, very interesting.  Cut-and-paste works from the report
>>> > >>> > > window
>>> > >>> > > into
>>> > >>> > > Notepad, but not directly into a Firefox edit window.  But you
>>> > >>> > > can
>>> > >>> > > cut-and-paste from that Notepad window into Firefox.  Another
>>> > >>> > > reason to
>>> > >>> > > avoid Windows.
>>> > >>> > >
>>> > >>> > > (sorry about all the chatter on this)
>>> > >>> > >
>>> > >>> > >
>>> > >>> > > Steve Undy
>>> > >>> > > st...@ro...
>>> > >>> > >
>>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Steve Undy
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>>> > >>> > >> I agree with Chris: It looks like cut-and-paste doesn't work
>>> > >>> > >> from
>>> > >>> > >> the
>>> > >>> > >> new report window on Windows (at least not on XP).
>>> > >>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
>>> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
>>> > >>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Chris Shaffer
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> <chr...@gm...>wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>> Interestingly, it works on my Mac at work.  I'll do more
>>> > >>> > >>> testing
>>> > >>> > >>> when I
>>> > >>> > >>> get home tonight.
>>> > >>> > >>>
>>> > >>> > >>>
>>> > >>> > >>> --
>>> > >>> > >>> Chris
>>> > >>> > >>>
>>> > >>> > >>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>> > >>> > >>>
>>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Steve Undy
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>>> Hmmm.  Copying from the report window works OK on my linux
>>> > >>> > >>>> system.
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>> Steve Undy
>>> > >>> > >>>> st...@ro...
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Shaffer
>>> > >>> > >>>> <chr...@gm...
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>> > wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm using 1.4 now, and I can't seem to copy text from the
>>> > >>> > >>>>> new
>>> > >>> > >>>>> report
>>> > >>> > >>>>> window to paste it into an email.  I've tried on both
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Windows
>>> > >>> > >>>>> and Ubuntu Linux, with the configuration "report window
>>> > >>> > >>>>> editable" checked and unchecked on both systems.  Any
>>> > >>> > >>>>> suggestions?
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>> --
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Chris
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Stefan Frey
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> <ste...@we...>wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> Chris & Erik:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> * Fixed the missing newline in copy&paste from the new
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> report
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> window
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> (google is your friend).
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> * There is a new configuration window now, which allows to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> set
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> options via an
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> UI. I will add some code (similar to the one  font changes)
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> that makes the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> change immediate and does not require a reload. Supplying
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> both
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> simultaneously
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> would be possible, but might bring more confusion to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> newbies
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> benefits to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> the experts?
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> * I could change the (static/legacy) report window to the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> new
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> behavior of
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> clearing undone actions instead of appending undoing, but
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> then
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> difference
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> between the two is merely formatting and the availability
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks. Then
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> it is easier to deactivate the formatting and hyperlinks
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> to support two
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> different subclasses of the ReportWindow.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> There are two reasons to keep the static version:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> A) For me the static window acts as an accounting trail,
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> thus
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> keeps
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> track of
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> undos explicitly.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> B) For (quite old) computers (or handhelds if Rails gets
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> portable in
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> future) the JEditorPane is a drag on performance and the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> whole
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> content is
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> updated after each action instead of appending as in the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> static case.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> Stefan
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:31:15 am Chris Shaffer
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > In that case, could there be an option to enable both
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > report
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> windows, so
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > users can switch back and forth between them within a
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > single
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > game?
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>  And
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > without requiring them to edit configuration files and
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > reload? I'd
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> hate to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have to choose between one or the other, since they both
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have lots
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > utility.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > --
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Chris
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Please consider the environment before printing this
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > e-mail.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > <eri...@xs...>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  I found that you can do that, but at the rather severe
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > penalty
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  of
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> losing
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > all end-of lines. The report becomes one long line.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Better keep to the (what Stefan in his wisdom disposes
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as)
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> "legacy"
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > report if you want to save or copy it.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Erik.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  ------------------------------
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...]
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday 11 August 2010 21:17
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > history
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Is it still possible to copy text from the Report
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > window
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > for
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> pasting into
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > an email?
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > --
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Chris
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > e-mail.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stefan Frey
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > <ste...@we...>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The linked movesets in the CGR 1856 merger inspired a
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> feature
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> that
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> proved to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> be surprisingly easy (as it leverages on the excellent
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> move/state mechanisms
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> in Rails). The downside is that it can be effected by
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> all
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> undo
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> related bugs, but the number of those was on the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> decrease
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> lately.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The report window now acts as game history: There are
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> hyperlinks
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> for
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> each action. Clicking on any of those lets Rails jump
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> that
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> game
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> situation (by
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> calling undo repeatedly). Return to a later position
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> possible
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> unless
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> an action is taken (as it is the case for standard
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> redo).
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I also
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> added
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> two buttons (<< and >>) to allow single-step moves.
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The old report window (which is editable) can be
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> activated via
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Configuration menu (or setting report.window.type to
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> static in
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> legacy configfiles).
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Stefan
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ----
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> ------ This SF.net email is sponsored by
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Make an app they can't live without
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/RIM-dev2dev
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rails-devel mailing list
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Rai...@li...
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ -----
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > ----- This SF.net email is sponsored by
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Make an app they can't live without
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
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>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
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>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Rai...@li...
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> ------ ---------- This SF.net email is sponsored by
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>>> > >>> > >>>>>> Rai...@li...
>>> > >>> > >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>> > >>>>> ------ --------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
>>> > >>> > >>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
>>> > >>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Rails-devel mailing list
>>> > >>> > >>>>> Rai...@li...
>>> > >>> > >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>>
>>> > >>> > >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>> > >>>> ------ -------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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>>> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> > >>> > >>>> Rai...@li...
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>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > >>> ------- This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
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>>> > >>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
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>>> > >>
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>>> > >
>>> > >
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>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> > Show off your parallel programming skills.
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>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>>>
>>> Show off your parallel programming skills.
>>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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>> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
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>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
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> Rai...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel
>

Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game history

[Phil D. <de...@gm...>]

Seconded!

On 2 September 2010 03:15, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote:
> That would be very, very nice.
>
> --
> Chris
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
>>
>> All those comments help to get a better understanding, how your pbem
>> gaming
>> works: It can be that a direct usage of the dashboard with java dashboard
>> classes is more robust..
>>
>> Is anyone interested into the following?
>>
>> Every time the active player changes.
>> A) A save file dialog opens with the usual suggested filename.
>> B) If the save occurs, the output of the game report of the last active
>> player
>> is shown in a text field, which allows editing.
>> C) After editing and confirmation the content is automatically pasted to
>> the
>> clipboard.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 02:38:36 am Phil Davies wrote:
>> > Additional when Dropbox goes wonky (as it is occasionally wont to do)
>> > and you haven't yet got the previous file, you can at least play catch
>> > up and execute the previous players actions for them.
>> >
>> > For my personal uses, I play over instant messenger most of the time
>> > and copy/paste works into a google chat window fine on my machine.
>> >
>> > On 1 September 2010 00:50, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...>
>> > wrote:
>> > > This is the use case for me too. Every group with which I've played
>> > > Rails
>> > > by email includes a copy/paste of the most current action, or the
>> > > entire
>> > > current round, in the email so people can follow the action without
>> > > loading each individual save file.
>> > >
>> > > This is partly an issue because loading save files is a bit clunky, as
>> > > noted in a previous email where someone pointed out that you have to
>> > > completely exit the program in order to load a new file.  However,
>> > > even
>> > > if it were easy to load files, the textual summaries are a nice way to
>> > > track on multiple games in email, and are also useful when people are
>> > > in
>> > > environments (e.g. work, smartphone) where they can't load the save
>> > > file.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Chris
>> > >
>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Steve Undy <ste...@gm...>
>> > >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >> The use model I'm familiar with (there are probably others) involves
>> > >> using DropBox to share/distribute the save file and sending an email
>> > >> reminder to the players with an excerpt from the report window that
>> > >> describes the latest move.  This way, all players can keep track of
>> > >> what is happening in the game without having to open the save file.
>> > >>
>> > >> Steve Undy
>> > >> st...@ro...
>> > >>
>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>> It seems that this can be narrowed down to a problem that occurs in
>> > >>> combination with Firefox only.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Interestingly it works on my system perfectly, even copying into the
>> > >>> web-email
>> > >>> clients that I use (actually its is more a "do not use", I prefer
>> > >>> IMAP
>> > >>> clients). My firefox version is 3.6.8.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> A quick google search brings up:
>> > >>> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Clipboard_not_working
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Especially have a look at the paragraph about the rich text client.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Copy&paste is still something which is strongly desktop/OS dependent
>> > >>> and was
>> > >>> the main reason to keep the previous ("static") report window.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If someone comes up with a suggestion how to solve that, I am happy
>> > >>> to
>> > >>> add the
>> > >>> solution to the code. May I ask what the use case for this procedure
>> > >>> is? Why
>> > >>> not mailing the rails game file instead of the report?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Stefan
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2010 07:04:36 pm Chris Shaffer wrote:
>> > >>> > Testing on Mac shows that you can copy/paste into a Firefox edit
>> > >>> > window.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Despite our desire to avoid Windows, a significant portion of the
>> > >>> > player
>> > >>> > base are Windows users.  Many of them are not technically
>> > >>> > proficient
>> > >>> > enough
>> > >>> > to switch, nor should we try to force them to do so.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > I will test on Windows and Ubuntu this evening.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > --
>> > >>> > Chris
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Steve Undy
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>> > >>> > > OK, very interesting.  Cut-and-paste works from the report
>> > >>> > > window
>> > >>> > > into
>> > >>> > > Notepad, but not directly into a Firefox edit window.  But you
>> > >>> > > can
>> > >>> > > cut-and-paste from that Notepad window into Firefox.  Another
>> > >>> > > reason to
>> > >>> > > avoid Windows.
>> > >>> > >
>> > >>> > > (sorry about all the chatter on this)
>> > >>> > >
>> > >>> > >
>> > >>> > > Steve Undy
>> > >>> > > st...@ro...
>> > >>> > >
>> > >>> > > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Steve Undy
>> > >>>
>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>> > >>> > >> I agree with Chris: It looks like cut-and-paste doesn't work
>> > >>> > >> from
>> > >>> > >> the
>> > >>> > >> new report window on Windows (at least not on XP).
>> > >>> > >>
>> > >>> > >>
>> > >>> > >> Steve Undy
>> > >>> > >> st...@ro...
>> > >>> > >>
>> > >>> > >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Chris Shaffer
>> > >>>
>> > >>> <chr...@gm...>wrote:
>> > >>> > >>> Interestingly, it works on my Mac at work.  I'll do more
>> > >>> > >>> testing
>> > >>> > >>> when I
>> > >>> > >>> get home tonight.
>> > >>> > >>>
>> > >>> > >>>
>> > >>> > >>> --
>> > >>> > >>> Chris
>> > >>> > >>>
>> > >>> > >>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> > >>> > >>>
>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Steve Undy
>> > >>>
>> > >>> <ste...@gm...>wrote:
>> > >>> > >>>> Hmmm.  Copying from the report window works OK on my linux
>> > >>> > >>>> system.
>> > >>> > >>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>
>> > >>> > >>>> Steve Undy
>> > >>> > >>>> st...@ro...
>> > >>> > >>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>
>> > >>> > >>>> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Chris Shaffer
>> > >>> > >>>> <chr...@gm...
>> > >>> > >>>>
>> > >>> > >>>> > wrote:
>> > >>> > >>>>> I'm using 1.4 now, and I can't seem to copy text from the
>> > >>> > >>>>> new
>> > >>> > >>>>> report
>> > >>> > >>>>> window to paste it into an email.  I've tried on both
>> > >>> > >>>>> Windows
>> > >>> > >>>>> and Ubuntu Linux, with the configuration "report window
>> > >>> > >>>>> editable" checked and unchecked on both systems.  Any
>> > >>> > >>>>> suggestions?
>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>> --
>> > >>> > >>>>> Chris
>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>> > >>> > >>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Stefan Frey
>> > >>>
>> > >>> <ste...@we...>wrote:
>> > >>> > >>>>>> Chris & Erik:
>> > >>> > >>>>>> * Fixed the missing newline in copy&paste from the new
>> > >>> > >>>>>> report
>> > >>> > >>>>>> window
>> > >>> > >>>>>> (google is your friend).
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> * There is a new configuration window now, which allows to
>> > >>> > >>>>>> set
>> > >>> > >>>>>> options via an
>> > >>> > >>>>>> UI. I will add some code (similar to the one  font changes)
>> > >>> > >>>>>> that makes the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> change immediate and does not require a reload. Supplying
>> > >>> > >>>>>> both
>> > >>> > >>>>>> simultaneously
>> > >>> > >>>>>> would be possible, but might bring more confusion to
>> > >>> > >>>>>> newbies
>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
>> > >>> > >>>>>> benefits to
>> > >>> > >>>>>> the experts?
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> * I could change the (static/legacy) report window to the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> new
>> > >>> > >>>>>> behavior of
>> > >>> > >>>>>> clearing undone actions instead of appending undoing, but
>> > >>> > >>>>>> then
>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> difference
>> > >>> > >>>>>> between the two is merely formatting and the availability
>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
>> > >>> > >>>>>> hyperlinks. Then
>> > >>> > >>>>>> it is easier to deactivate the formatting and hyperlinks
>> > >>> > >>>>>> than
>> > >>> > >>>>>> to support two
>> > >>> > >>>>>> different subclasses of the ReportWindow.
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> There are two reasons to keep the static version:
>> > >>> > >>>>>> A) For me the static window acts as an accounting trail,
>> > >>> > >>>>>> thus
>> > >>> > >>>>>> keeps
>> > >>> > >>>>>> track of
>> > >>> > >>>>>> undos explicitly.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> B) For (quite old) computers (or handhelds if Rails gets
>> > >>> > >>>>>> portable in
>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> future) the JEditorPane is a drag on performance and the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> whole
>> > >>> > >>>>>> content is
>> > >>> > >>>>>> updated after each action instead of appending as in the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> static case.
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> Stefan
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> On Thursday, August 12, 2010 12:31:15 am Chris Shaffer
>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > In that case, could there be an option to enable both
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > report
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> windows, so
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > users can switch back and forth between them within a
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > single
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > game?
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>>  And
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > without requiring them to edit configuration files and
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > reload? I'd
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> hate to
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have to choose between one or the other, since they both
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > have lots
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> of
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > utility.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > --
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Chris
>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Please consider the environment before printing this
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > e-mail.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Erik Vos
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > <eri...@xs...>
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  I found that you can do that, but at the rather severe
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > penalty
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  of
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> losing
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > all end-of lines. The report becomes one long line.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Better keep to the (what Stefan in his wisdom disposes
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as)
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> "legacy"
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > report if you want to save or copy it.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Erik.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >  ------------------------------
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...]
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Sent:* Wednesday 11 August 2010 21:17
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Report window as game
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > history
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Is it still possible to copy text from the Report
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > window
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > for
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> pasting into
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > an email?
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > --
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Chris
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Please consider the environment before printing this
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > e-mail.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stefan Frey
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > <ste...@we...>
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The linked movesets in the CGR 1856 merger inspired a
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> feature
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> that
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> proved to
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> be surprisingly easy (as it leverages on the excellent
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> move/state mechanisms
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> in Rails). The downside is that it can be effected by
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> all
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> undo
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> related bugs, but the number of those was on the
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> decrease
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> lately.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The report window now acts as game history: There are
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> hyperlinks
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> for
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> each action. Clicking on any of those lets Rails jump
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> that
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> game
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> situation (by
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> calling undo repeatedly). Return to a later position
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> possible
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> unless
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> an action is taken (as it is the case for standard
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> redo).
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I also
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> added
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> two buttons (<< and >>) to allow single-step moves.
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> The old report window (which is editable) can be
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> activated via
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Configuration menu (or setting report.window.type to
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> static in
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> the
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> legacy configfiles).
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Stefan
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
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