Menu
▾
▴
Re: [Rails-devel] SVG background maps (was: Release strategy - master vs. rails2develop)
|
From: Frederick W. <fre...@go...> - 2014-12-09 10:31:33
|
Stefan: If your goal is to shorten the time a designer needs for a new svg, these ideas would certainly contribute to that. Although, for me, recreating the hex grid amounted to only about 10% of the time, the remainder being creating coastlines/rivers and design/placing of shapes. Map.xml's city/town names are also not reliable - at least town names are never included. So, as a result, I wouldn't create more svgs if such svg pregeneration functionality existed. But on the other hand, it would save me some amount of time if I created one. For doing more with the svg (incorporating artful tokens etc.), I have my doubts about that. It would be too easy for a WYSIWYG editor to mess this up. Such svgs would have to be edited in an xml editor after the designer had completed his initial work... -- Frederick On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote: > Frederick, > no I am realistic that a designer of a map cares more about the SVG > structure than you already did. I only wondered how far you went, most > likely you define the upper limit of carefulness. ;-) > > My goal is to separate those parts of the background map, which are > better generated/manipulated by > the code and which by the human designer. > > My current thoughts are: > > * A hex grid SVG definition should be generated by a program. There are > SVG online generators (e.g. > http://axiscity.hexamon.net/users/isomage/misc/svg-hex.cgi), however I > assume coding an own one, is not too difficult. This would allow to > generate a hexgrid as a SVG based on Rails map definitions. > > * The hex grid could then be imported by a designer to add the > background map. If Inkscape is used it is easy to separate the two parts > (grid and map) by layers. > > * It is possible to add another SVG layer that shows the Rails > predefined tiles on the hexgrid. This would make the designing task > easier, at it would show, what content is expected in each hex. > By using layers, it can be easily separated later on. > > I still have to think more about tiles. I would like to change tiles > that it is possible to change them by code. This would imply that the > base structure has to be defined manually to make code manipulation > easier. The reason for that would be e.g. to add tokens, add offboard > values, city names, all stuff that is already contained in the xml > definitions. > > What do you (and others think) about that? > > Stefan > > > Frederick Weld <fre...@go...>schrieb: > > Stefan: > Actually, I use Inkscape as a WYSIWYG tool and do not bother about > redundancies in the residual svg as long as the file size is less > than 100k. I keep the layers and grouping in the pushed svg versions > so that anyone could easily alter aspects of the svg. > > A lot of your questions are pointing into the direction that the > designer needs to care more about the svg model. That could come > with a lot of advantages but keep in mind that any compulsion to do > this could potentially turn away WYSIWYG designers. Here are some > answers: > > - The ids are auto-assigned but could be changed within the tool. > > - I don't think that Inkscape can be forced to retain the syntax of > tiles copied from outside. > > - I am not aware of any in-tool support for css, but I could imagine > that other tools (or even Inkscape with direct svg editing) provide > for that. > > - I use separate hexes instead of a hex grid since I often need the > hex definition to add a filling (eg., prelaid tiles at the coast). > But I imagine that other designs could differ regarding this aspect. > > -- Frederick > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Stefan Frey<ste...@we... > <mailto:ste...@we...>> wrote: > > Frederick: > thanks a lot. Your feedback is really helpful. > > And I appreciate your functional but good-looking design. > > I am currently looking into how interact with the svg maps from > inside > the code. > > Maybe some questions up-front: > > * How did you (or Inkscape) assing ids to your elements? Is > there any > system to it, that relates to the actual 18xx definitions? > > * Is it possible to force Inkscape to use pre-defined styles for > attributes (inline or external CSS) to reduce the replication > inside the > svg? > > * Inkscape seems to change the syntax of tile definitions at the > time > copying (e.g. uses relative coordinates instead of absolute > coordinates > for the path definitions). > > * It seems that it is possible to save it as plain svg without > quality > loss (however it prevents Inkscape to identify the layer > information). > > * Do you have a good idea to avoid the duplication of drawing > the hex > borders? I think it would be a good idea to separate drawing the > hex > grid from the hex content to avoid that. > > I do not want to change the map code too much in 2.0, except for > replacing batik. However I want to improve that in the next > upcoming > releases. So I am still very open for ideas. > > Stefan > > > On 12/05/2014 03:12 PM, Frederick Weld wrote: > > Stefan: > > The hexes have the same size as the tile svgs. This makes it > possible to > > just copy required tiles (Altoona...) from the tile svg into > the map. > > > > These tile svgs are the one very important element of reuse. > > > > I reuse further parts from my former maps - but this is > rather pure > > design (shape/color patterns for rendering...). > > > > I do not use any specific coordinate system and, as a result, > I have to > > calibrate the maps within the game to get the x/y/scale > parameters. This > > is no drawback though, as I often want to be able to make the > decision > > how much "padding" the grid needs within my map's layout... > > > > -- Frederick > > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Stefan Frey > <ste...@we... <mailto:ste...@we...> > > <mailto:ste...@we... <mailto:ste...@we...>>> wrote: > > > > Frederick: > > thanks for your feedback. > > I assumed this by the size of the files, however I had no > time yet > > to look into details. > > > > One further question: What coordinates did you choose for > your maps? > > Is it identical across your maps? What is the size of one > hexagon in > > those coordinates. Have you already started to create > single tiles > > for reuse? I am keen on replacing the existing tile > creation process > > by a simpler one. > > > > Most likely you can guess where I am hinting at, but I > will give > > more details on Sunday. > > > > Great work, > > Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > Frederick Weld <fre...@go... > <mailto:fre...@go...> > > <mailto:fre...@go... > <mailto:fre...@go...>>>schrieb: > > > > Stefan: > > I use Inkscape for creating/editing the vector maps. > They are > > stored in svg format. I couldn't imagine any other > combination > > which would fit our needs here in a better manner. > > > > SVG files are verbose but their size gets shrunk by > compression > > to 10-15% of the original size. My maps are <100k when > > compressed. Hence, I do not think this is a real issue. > > > > However, the situation is different for converted > maps (in > > rails, e.g, 18EU, 18AL). They include a lot of > superfluous paths > > (including paths instead of text) and get bloated and > slow to > > draw as a result. That (and copyright considerations) > is why I > > always build my maps from the scratch. > > > > The svg lib could be exchanged, of course. But as a > > prerequisite, the new lib should be regression-free > with respect > > to exiting background maps. > > > > -- Frederick > > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Stefan > Frey<ste...@we... <mailto:ste...@we...> > > <mailto:ste...@we... > <mailto:ste...@we...>>> wrote: > > > > Frederick: > > we could do that later on. Most people now know that > > rails_2_develop is > > the (default) branch for rails 2. > > > > My (future) release strategy is based on > > > > http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/ > > > > However I still consider moving the git repo > (only the repo, > > not the > > other parts) to github, then this will happen > with the > > official rails > > 2.0 release. > > > > I am looking forward to seeing more maps from you. > > > > One question: In which format and tools do you > create your > > maps? > > > > Most likely you will know that I intend to > replace the Batik > > lib soon. > > However which long-run strategy to choose how > display > > maps/tiles for Rails. > > > > In the short-run I will simply replace Batik by a > more > > light-weight SVG > > library, but I am open to recommendations. > > > > Stefan > > > > > > On 12/04/2014 10:16 AM, Frederick Weld wrote: > > > Stefan: > > > There is no standard 1830 map yet. I will > probably do > > that after the > > > Coalfield map has been reviewed (bgg) and > thoroughly > > play-tested. > > > > > > How about labeling rails_2_develop as master? > Then the > > meaning would be > > > clear: Current state of validated development > which is > > eligible for the > > > next release. > > > > > > -- Frederick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free > Enterprise-Grade > > BIRT Server > > > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your > Business Reports > > and Dashboards > > > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel > Exports, App > > Integration & more > > > Get technology previously reserved for > billion-dollar > > corporations, FREE > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > < > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rails-devel mailing list > > >Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...> > > <mailto:Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...>> > > > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free > Enterprise-Grade BIRT > > Server > > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business > Reports > > and Dashboards > > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel > Exports, App > > Integration & more > > Get technology previously reserved for > billion-dollar > > corporations, FREE > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails-devel mailing list > > Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...> > > <mailto:Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade > BIRT > > Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your > Business Reports > > and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel > > Exports, App Integration & more Get technology > previously > > reserved for billion-dollar corporations, > > > FREEhttp:// > pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > < > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > > > > > < > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > > > > Rails-devel mailing > lis...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...> > > <mailto:Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade > BIRT Server > > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports > and Dashboards > > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App > Integration & > > more > > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar > corporations, FREE > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails-devel mailing list > > Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...> > > <mailto:Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT > Server > > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and > Dashboards > > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App > Integration & more > > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar > corporations, FREE > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails-devel mailing list > >Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...> > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and > Dashboards > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App > Integration & more > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar > corporations, FREE > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > <mailto:Rai...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and > Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App > Integration & more Get technology previously reserved for > billion-dollar corporations, > FREEhttp:// > pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk_______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li...https:// > lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server > from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards > with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more > Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=164703151&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > |
