Re: [Rails-devel] Issue with Private Bid Auction order

[Stefan F. <ste...@we...>]

If I understand everyone correct the issue is only about which player 
starts the bidding in the contested item auction.

It is common understanding that
A) Only those players can participate that have bid previously and the 
starting price is the current highest bid with a minimum raise of 5$.

This is stated both by 1830(AH) and 1830(Mayfair 2nd).

It is also seems pretty clear that
B) The player order is still clockwise (skipping those players who have 
not bid).

This is missing in 1830(AH), but included 1830(Mayfair 2nd)

A previously known issue was:
C) Do players who pass in the (sub)-auction leave the auction?

This is missing in 1830(AH), but resolved in 1830(Mayfair 2nd: NO)

There is an option in Rails to choose the solution for C (Leave Private 
Auction on Pass), default is set to NO.

The new issue is:
D) Which player has the first bid?

This is missing in 1830(AH), but resolved in 1830(Mayfair 2nd) by "The 
player with the lowest bid starts the bidding" (page 26)

Unfortunately this (perfectly valid solution) is different to all other 
games in Rails that use the 1830 style auction, including the two other 
Mayfair 18xx titles:

1856: "... starting with the bidding player to the left of the player 
with the highest bid" (p. 9)
1870: "... starting with the bidding player to the left of the player 
with the highest bid" (p. 10)
1889: "... starting with the bidding player to the left of the player 
with the highest bid" (p. 6)
18AL/18GA: "...beginning with the player after the one who made the 
highest bid" (both p. 7)


 From my personal experience I got the impression that this is the 
general consensus how to play in 1830 as well.

So questions are
1) Why did Mayfair propose a rule fix that is different to the solution 
in all the other games after 1830 which share the same type of auction?
Maybe they were not even aware of this?

2) Should Rails add a game option for this? And if so, should this be 
the default for 1830 (knowing that this is different to the default of 
all the 1830 "derivatives")?

3) Are there tournament rules (e.g. used at the WBC) for 18xx, which we 
could use to resolve those issues? Or was this addressed at the yahoo 
list already and I have missed that discussion.

 From a development perspective I prefer to avoid including too many 
game options (especially for such non-game changing issues).
And as a 18xx player I prefer to have rules sets standardized in minor 
details.

Remark:
Another interesting bit is from Steve Thomas 1830 clarifications:

"When there are three or more bidding players, some groups hold an 
organised auction, where players bid or pass in player order; in some 
groups a player passing may not rejoin the auction. Others (including my 
own group) have a free-for-all, where any eligible player may make a bid 
at any time, and the auction ends when all players agree to stop."

There is no intention to mimick a free-for-all auction in Rails for the 
time-being ;-)


On 09/24/2012 02:24 PM, Bob Probst wrote:
> 3 player 1830, rails file attached.
>
> We had 3 players bidding on C&A and Rails directed the next bid to the
> middle player, not the player with the lowest bid.
>
> Player 1 is Joshua.
> Player 2 is Adam.
> Player 3 is Bob.
>
> Adam just passed on the M&H, Joshua bought it at $150 and Rails directed
> me to bid next on the C&A.
>
> SVNRR: $20 Joshua purchases for $20
> C&StL: $40 Adam 55, Bob pass
> D&H: $70 Joshua pass, Bob 100
> M&H: $110 *Adam pass*, Joshua 150
> C&A: $160 Joshua 165, Bob 170, Adam 175
> B&O: $220
>
> *Bob* (with C&A)
>
> As I understand, the original rules were somewhat ambiguous on how this
> should be done
>
> The new Mayfair reprint states that the next in line is the lowest
> bidder (pg 26) and my experience with a wide variety of players is to
> have it go to the lowest bidder as well.
>
> I'd recommend that RAILS adhere to the current ruleset.
>
>
>
>
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