Re: [Rails-devel] Players total value (was: Some questions regarding a new release)

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I think that using purchase price is fraught with complications.

How will you account for the value of private companies in 1826 and 18GL?
 They cannot be sold or redeemed, and always end up with value zero,
whether the game ends immediately or at some later date.  By your algorithm
below, they will be included in the net worth calculation, which I would
argue is incorrect.  They have no current value, and will never have actual
value.

I also disagree with this statement.  An example where this is obviously
untrue is the minor companies in 18MEX.

a) Potential conversions (even automatic) are irrelevant until they occur.

--
Chris

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On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 8:08 AM, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:

> All:
> sorry I submitted a version of the mail, which was an older one and was not
> fully edited to what it should have been:
>
> I first considered the question of sure (or almost sure) closure of an item
> before game end to be the relevant. But as many already complained this
> is ambiguous (in theory nearly all games can end before seeing the first
> tile
> laid, even without thinking about bankruptcy).
>
> For sure the on-going value can be configured to be an additional or
> optional
> replacement of the end-of-game value. It was already on my to-do-list to
> make
> the current end-of-game value.
>
> Feel free to suggest something better suited.
>
> Stefan
>
>
> So my fully finished proposal is for an ongoing player value is stated
> below:
>
> A) For items that have a value at game end unequal to zero use that.
>
> B) For items that have a value at game end equal to zero use the purchasing
> cost defined below.
>
> Purchasing price for type B items:
>
> 1) The actual price paid to the bank is relevant (e.g after a bidding
> process).
>
> 2) if a bundle is sold the value of all Items of type B purchased from
> bundles
> are evaluated by deducting first the current value of all type A items (at
> the
> time of purchase) from the purchase price and then the remaining amount
> is distributed equally to all type B items of the bundle.
>
> Some further remarks:
> a) Potential conversions (even automatic) are irrelevant until they occur.
>
> b) Items might change their type from B to A without conversion if their
> game
> end value changes from zero to a non-zero value. This has no retrograde
> effect
> of the value of other items sold in a bundle with the item.
>
> Remark b) covers the case of the C&A:
>
> The PRR share bundled with the C&A will be first assigned the difference
> between the purchase price of the C&A minus the value of the C&A. Later if
> a
> market price is available then the PRR share is valued by that.
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2011 08:07:14 am Stefan Frey wrote:
> > I thought about this, and used some ideas from accounting (however
> adopted
> > to the 18xx environment).
> >
> > What do you think about the following definition to evaluate items for
> the
> > player value displayed in Rails:
> >
> > B) Items that will close before end for sure will use the purchase value.
> >
> >
> > For this we should internally however differentiate between game end
> player
> > value and ongoing current player value: This would allow us easily to
> > choose by game configuration to display end value or current value.
> >
> > However I suggest to defer implementation to the Rails 2.0 trunk.
> >
> > Stefan
> >
> > On Sunday, December 18, 2011 11:24:54 pm Erik Vos wrote:
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 11:00 PM
> > > > To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Some questions regarding a new release
> > > >
> > > > On 2011-12-18 08:04, Erik Vos wrote:
> > > > > [1835] Net worth calculation seems a little off, I think it's
> getting
> > > > > confused particularly with the Prussian certs.  [Phil Davies
> > > > > 17-6-2010]
> > > >
> > > > I noticed this recently, too.  What seems to be happening is that in
> > > > both 1835 and 18EU, the minor companies are counted as zero in net
> > > > worth.
> > >
> > > While
> > >
> > > > this may be correct in the rules, it's a distortion for players who
> > > > want
> > >
> > > to use
> > >
> > > > net worth as a way to predict final positions.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest that in 1835, the privates and minors should be counted as
> > > > the value of the PR shares they will eventually trade for (77M per 5%
> > > > if PR
> > >
> > > has
> > >
> > > > not yet formed), while for 18EU, I would just count them all as $100
> > > > each
> > >
> > > (as
> > >
> > > > a ballpark estimate).
> > >
> > > Hmm, if we are going to count privates/minors to their expected future
> > > value rather than their official current value, shouldn't we then also
> > > count 1830 C&A for $320 rather than $160?
> > > I would prefer to stick to the rules, and leave it to the players to
> take
> > > note of (or forget about) any expected future gains.
> > >
> > > Erik.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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