Re: [Rails-devel] batik and svg documents (was: Background Maps)

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Erik,
I think you do not need a GUI to create an XML like this:

	<Tile colour="green" id="12" name="12">
		<Station id="city1" position="0" slots="1" type="City" value="30"/>
		<Track from="city1" gauge="normal" to="side1"/>
		<Track from="city1" gauge="normal" to="side2"/>
		<Track from="city1" gauge="normal" to="side3"/>
	</Tile>

All information you would need to know to create a SVG for such a tile is 
where the city is located.

(so think position = "..." 
or positionX = ... and positionY= ... 
or positionL=... and positionTheta=... 
for polar coordinates, something I would prefer).

Everything else is style information: Stroke for the tracks, Circle diameter 
for the city, text styles for the value and tile id etc.

And the SVG itself is created by a createTileSVG class. I believe it would be 
fast enough that it could be done on the fly at start-up.

Stefan

On Thursday, August 18, 2011 01:04:59 pm Erik Vos wrote:
> I think you will still need some GUI to create that XML (which is currently
> converted from the TileDesigner XML export), so with a little extra effort
> you can as well have that GUI export the SVG as well.  Then we would have
> reengineered TileDesigner.  I would love to see that happen, but who is
> going to volunteer?
> 
> Erik.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stefan Frey [mailto:ste...@we...]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:56 PM
> > To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] batik and svg documents (was: Background Maps)
> > 
> > Just a short comment (coming back from lunch hour at work):
> > 
> > Maybe we should think the other around: Have a program define an SVG tile
> > from the Rails' track and station definitions (maybe by adding some
> > visual hints to that format).
> > 
> > Ideally it would be able to create both sticky/standard visual appearance
> > similar to what a style sheet does to html/xml code does.
> > 
> > Actually it is possible to use a CSS with SVG documents, however I do not
> > know by heart if batik supports that.
> > 
> > Stefan
> > 
> > On Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:47:52 pm Erik Vos wrote:
> > > Nice idea, but I cannot find any ids in the SVG code (see attached
> > > example of tile 57 - reformatted and renamed as text). And
> > > unfortunately we don't have any control over the SVG XML format, as we
> > > don't have the TileDesigner source code.
> > > 
> > > Getting an open source tile designer program may be one of our biggest
> > > needs.
> > > 
> > > Erik.
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Adam Badura [mailto:ab...@o2...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 11:49 AM
> > > > To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] batik and svg documents (was: Background
> > > > Maps)
> > > > 
> > > > And to fully benefit from the SVG model it would be great if the
> > > > tile description had some mapping to SVG image of the tile. If for
> > > > example station entry had an argument "svg-id" which would name
> > > > identifier of SVG tile element which represents the station. Then
> > > > the SVG map document code would not have to care that much about
> > > > actual details of how the SVG makes the station (is it a single
> > > > circle with border? or are those two circles of different radius
> > > > wrapped in a an svg:g container? or whatever else...). It would know
> > > > that it has to look for ID element and either replace it with
> > > > station token element or to lay the station token element on the
> > > > same position or whatever it likes. Yet it would be much easier.
> > > > 
> > > > Another example is marking routes. If a route from edge X to edge Y
> > > > would be realized by ID1, ID2, ... IDn elements in SVG the code
> > > > could just change style of those elements (for example change color
> > > > to Train 1
> > > > color) and expect the route to be marked well.
> > > > 
> > > > If user clicks a station mark on SVG tile map manager will know ID
> > > > of the "conceptual element" that was clicked and could easily in
> > > > effect determine (based on the tile description) what was it. It
> > > > easily transforms clicking "this white cirlce" into clicking NW
> > > > station on a double station tile...
> > > > 
> > > > -----Oryginalna wiadomość-----
> > > > From: Erik Vos
> > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 11:39 AM
> > > > To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> > > > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] batik and svg documents (was: Background
> > > > Maps)
> > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Adam Badura [mailto:ab...@o2...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 12:20 AM
> > > > > To: 'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] batik and svg documents (was:
> > > > > Background
> > > > > Maps)
> > > > > 
> > > > > With SVG+XML I meant that (in my opinion) SVG should be used purly
> > > > > for presentation. Tile "description" (like number of stations,
> > > > > track connections between hex edges, stations on that tracks, and
> > > > > so on...) should be stored separately (so not to mix different tile
> > 
> > aspects).
> > 
> > > > > This also allows to easly use different tile "styles" without need
> > > > > to change code that analyzes runs or finds possible tile lays.
> > > > 
> > > > I fully agree with that.  Several games have hexes and tiles where
> > > > the picture does not reflect the full connectivity function of that
> > > > hex/tile. Examples:
> > > > - PRR and Reading bases in the 1830 Coalfields and Reading variants,
> > > > - Most off-map hexes, and specifically the 1856 Goderich and 18EU
> > > > Hamburg: there is an undisplayed city on these hexes, that in the
> > > > two cases mentioned can even be run through.
> > > > - the sticky version of the brown plain track tiles in some games,
> > > > like 18EU. In these cases the connectivity specification (in
> > > > Tiles.xml) and the SVG picture are different, so the latter is
> > > > unusable to base route calculations upon.
> > > > 
> > > > Erik.
> > > > 
> > > > 
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