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Re: [Rails-devel] Emergency train purchases-1835
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2011-07-27 16:55:21
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I think this is a reasonable interpretation - but it's just that, an interpretation. I think the other possibilities are also reasonable interpretations. Like Erik (and also the people in the 2005 discussion), I think this issue is unresolved because of a lack of definition of terminology. -- Chris Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Dr. Martin Brumm <Dr....@t-...> wrote: > Hello, > The principle behind that rule is that the director is not allowed to fund > any money if theres an afforable train in the pool/ipo or funnel cash into > another company out of his own pocket while thers a train affordable. The > right to choose is in so far retained as he still can choose to swutch > trains but inly for the maximum cash in the train needing company. > Imho the point should be implemented like an automatic check if a train can > be bought with the operating capital and that should be bought with player > interaction.(problem arising here is the train swap between companies with > the same director and i think thats why there is the clause with the > director being able to choose, so maybe we can add a operation/ action to > ask if he wants to move another train from another company.) > If theres not enough cash for any train that should lead to a menu where the > player gets shown his options from all available trains (pool and ipo) and > the amount of money he needs to finance. > In the case that the company has enough money for buying a train ( again > from pool or ipo) and there would be more than one available from differing > types we need a menu again stating that the director has the right to choose > which one he wants to buy. > Regards > Martin > > Von meinem iPad gesendet > Am 27.07.2011 um 09:49 schrieb "Erik Vos" <eri...@xs...>: > > Yes, and the next sentence says: “If there is a choice of trains available > then he may decide which to buy”. > > > > The problems is that “does not have enough cash” and “available” are not > further defined. Is the new train “available” only if the company has > “enough cash” to buy it? That is the issue., and the rules don’t clarify > that. John says no. I’m undecided. > > > > I see two ways out of this conundrum: > > (1) Offer both trains, and let the player ignore whatever he deems > illegal, > > (2) Add a game option (but I don’t see how this choice can be described > in a menu item text that is not overly long). > > > > Erik > > > > From: Dr....@t-... [mailto:Dr....@t-...] > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:18 AM > To: Erik Vos > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Emergency train purchases-1835 > > > > Hi Erik & John, > > Original german rule and translation following: > > Sollte eine Aktiengesellschaft eine Lok kaufen müssen und nicht > If a share company is forced to buy a train and doesnt > genügend Betriebskapital besitzen, so muß der Direktor den Fehlbetrag aus > have enough working capital, the director must fund the missing amount of > money out > seinem Privatvermögen zuschießen. > of his own private money. > > If there is a train in the bank pool/IPO that the company can afford the > company has to buy that. If theres not > > enough money to buy even that train out of the pool/IPO the director might > decide what and where to buy(cause he pays the money :)). > > Regards, > > Martin > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > > Subject: RE: [Rails-devel] Emergency train purchases-1835 > > Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 16:04:36 +0200 > > From: "Erik Vos" <eri...@xs...> > > To: <Dr....@t-...>, "'Development list for Rails: an 18xx > game'" <rai...@li...> > > > > > > It seems to me that neither interpretation (Martin’s and John’s) can be > falsified by any close reading of the rules, be it the German or the (2nd) > English versions. > > > > “if the company does not have enough cash to afford a train” - it does not > say that, it says “If a share company is forced to buy a train and does not > have enough cash, then…” without further specifying “enough cash” - to buy > what exactly? > > > > Erik. > > > > From: Dr....@t-... [mailto:Dr....@t-...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:32 PM > To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Emergency train purchases-1835 > > > > Re 1835: > > > > Sollte eine Aktiengesellschaft eine Lok kaufen müssen und nicht > genügend Betriebskapital besitzen, so muß der Direktor den Fehlbetrag aus > seinem Privatvermögen zuschießen. Sollten verschiedene Loks zur Auswahl > stehen (Bankpool), kann der Direktor frei auswählen. > > > > Sorry Erik and John but your 1835 rule understanding is wrong imho. > > > > The director can ONLY fund cash if he company cant afford any of the trains > currently in the bank. > > Hes free to choose then which oine he wants if the company cant afford any. > > > > Example: > > > > 4 Train available in the pool for 300 Mark > > 6 Train in the bank (IPO) for 600 Mark > > > > Company has 399 Mark, director can buy the 6 with funding 201 Mark > > Company has 400 Mark, Company HAS to buy the available 4 ! > > > > In the english rules it states if the company does not have enough cash to > afford a train (so its the same rule as in german original). > > If the company can afford one train it has to buy that, only if it cant > afford even the cheapest one, the director can choose. > > > > (And yes i got burned a number of times by that rule :)) > > > > Regards, > > > > > > -----Original-Nachricht----- > Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Emergency train purchases > Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 12:02:07 +0200 > From: "Erik Vos" <eri...@xs...> > To: "'Development list for Rails: an 18xx game'" > <rai...@li...> > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...] > >> > 1. If a company has no train, it can buy any train on offer from Bank, >> > Pool or other companies (at any price) that is has enough cash for. >> > It is always obliged to buy a used (Pool) train that it can pay for, >> > if it cannot afford a new (IPO) train. >> >> Not true for 1835. There, the president may add cash to buy the cheapest >> new train from IPO even if the company can afford a train from the bank >> pool. >> I believe this goes for 1837, too. > > I have checked the English and German rules again. These aren't very clear, > but I must admit that these can well be interpreted the way you do. > > The 1837 rules are almost identical. There, the relevant rule XI.11 says: > "If there is a choice of trains available (either from the Bank Pool or from > another company) the director may decide which to buy", which leaves me > wondering why only the Bank Pool is mentioned, and not the Bank initial > offering (other usage of the word Bank Pool in the 1837 rules make it clear > that the Pool is distinct from the initial offering). > Your version of the 1837 rules has many clarifying comments, but not one > that deals with this issue in any way. > > This all still leaves me in doubt. But if no strong contrary arguments > arise, I will take over your position. > > Erik. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Magic Quadrant for Content-Aware Data Loss Prevention > Research study explores the data loss prevention market. 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