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Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary
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From: brett l. <bre...@gm...> - 2010-09-12 04:46:10
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What could be done to make the process easier? ---Brett. On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Chris Shaffer <chr...@gm...> wrote: > The disadvantage of simply filing bugs and feature requests, of course, is > that there is virtually no discussion of them, because they are not seen by > 90% of the people on this list. > > I often file the bug or feature request and also post here, but that's > double work. > > -- > Chris > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. > > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote: >> >> All good suggestions, and all of these would make nice entries in the >> Feature Request or Bug Report lists. That would have the added benefit >> that >> any discussions can be saved there too. >> >> Some comments from my side; some aspects I will have to leave to Stefan. >> >> Just one general remark: some ideas sound simple, and in theory anything >> is >> possible, but we should keep in mind that there is always a price, however >> small. Additional complexity, slower speed, or just larger code. We should >> not make Rails so big that the word "bloated" starts coming to mind. >> >> Erik >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...] >> Sent: Saturday 11 September 2010 04:32 >> To: rai...@li... >> Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary >> >> Comments on Rails 1.4, tested with a four player game of 18EU 2010-09-09 >> >> General comments: >> >> * In the "select game" dialog box, changing to a different game should >> not >> cause all players to be set back to "none" and the names blanked. >> >> [EV] Sure. That's a bug to me. >> >> * The map should show "Y", where needed, on unbuilt city hexes. This is >> a >> major annoyance during the start round, because it affects both the city's >> revenue and the possible shapes of the yellow tile, so not seeing it makes >> it hard to predict the values of minors. (Yes, I know, I can find this >> out >> by mousing-over each one, but that is annoying.) >> >> [EV] I'm a bit surprised that you consider this an annoyance. For me, the >> hard and fast rule is that all minor start cities are either preprinted >> yellow or Y cities, and vice versa. But it is easy to create an extra >> blank >> Y city tile, so that's on my list. >> >> * The map also ought to show the values of red areas. (I would treat >> each >> one as a "tile" with a negative number that gets upgraded by phase >> changes.) >> >> [EV] Creating a separate red tile for each possible revenue value sounds >> like overkill to me. Another idea could be to overprint red tiles with the >> current revenue value. The problem is that such values will look similar >> to >> tile laying cost. >> Talking about "the map" - I would love it if we would have map images (as >> SVG files). Then we could show any info we would like. >> >> * Entering a comment before the first action in the game should be >> allowed. >> >> * Entering two comments in a row should append, not replace. >> >> [EV] I leave these two for Stefan. >> >> * It would be nice if the Game Status window had a column showing each >> player's total income in the last round. This would act as a reminder >> that >> the player who is falling furthest behind had better DO SOMETHING! (and >> conversely, that the player who is making the most money should probably >> not >> change the status quo, by buying lots of trains or starting new >> companies). >> >> [EV] Great suggestion. High on my list. >> >> * It would be nice if the program could remember (or let you save in a >> config file) the locations of every window, so you don't have to move them >> manual every time you start a game (and often afterward too). I always >> use >> these settings. >> Stock market: upper left corner of screen >> "Game Status" tabulation/stock round input: lower left corner of screen >> Map/operating round input: upper right corner of screen (and don't allow >> the height to self-adjust so it's taller than the screen height >> minus >> the Windows menu bar -- it now does so at the start of every OR >> until >> there are too few companies to cause it (in my case, 10 companies). >> The map also moves so it extends about an inch to the right of the >> screen, every time.) >> History/comment window: lower right corner >> >> [EV] I believe Stefan is already considering this one. >> >> All of the above apply to all games, except that I believe the 1830 and >> 1835 >> maps do show you where the lettered tiles go. Due credit: 18EU does show >> the two "B-V" hexes. >> >> Start round: >> >> * It would be nice to have alternate starts available, such as any >> combination of: >> $400 each to start; >> all starting prices reduced to $50; >> bidding round order 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4,4,3,2. >> >> [EV] "such as" - where do the possibilities end? However, your suggestions >> sound like a sensible subset of the infinite universe of possible >> alternatives. >> >> * "Unlimited tiles" should not be an all-or-nothing setting: there should >> be a setting to make only #7, #8, and #9 unlimited (this is what the rules >> say to do in 18EU, 1826, and 1853v2, and probably many other games). >> >> [EV] I cannot find this in the 18EU rules. However, it's a common >> extension, >> and I agree that it could be a generic option. >> >> * Bids (above the starting value) look the same as the prices of things >> you've already bought. Please change this: it makes it nonobvious who >> already owns more companies than others. >> >> * There should be some visual indication of which players can still bid >> on >> the current item. >> >> * A player is correctly skipped when an item someone else selected for >> bidding would cost more than he has. But if it's your turn to select an >> item and you have less than $100, "Bid" ought to be grayed out and isn't. >> >> [EV] Three sensible UI improvements for the start rounds. >> >> Operating rounds: >> >> * The map should show the reserved hexes controlled by certain minors. >> (I don't expect them to be enforced yet, just shown.) >> >> [EV] Agree. I think there should be a generic configuration option to add >> any text to any tile. >> >> * Please enforce the rule that minors can't lay green tiles. >> >> [EV] I'm pretty sure that this worked correctly until recently. Stefan, I >> think to have been working on the tile laying rules - can you please >> check? >> >> * When no tile lay is legally possible, please skip the tile-lay step. >> (Which would mean that after the first couple of rounds, most minors' >> tile- >> lay step would be skipped, speeding up the game a lot.) >> >> [EV] This can only be done if the current disconnect between knowing about >> legal lays (in the UI only) and the round/step management (in the game >> engine) has been fixed. Be aware, though, that any additional action skips >> will make all previous saved files unloadable, insofar these contain >> pass/done actions that are now skipped. I'm very reluctant to do add or >> remove such steps, as that will (again) invalidate many of my saved files >> that I use for testing. >> >> * When placing tile #581 (green upgrade) in Berlin and trying it both >> ways >> it will go, the tokens that are already there (#9 and KPEV, which I formed >> from #7) are shown, respectively, along the SE and NW edges, rather than >> the >> NE and SW which are the existing connections they must keep. They move to >> the correct places once I make the tile lay final, but showing them wrong >> makes it harder to place the tile correctly. >> >> [EV] Will look at that. Don't hold your breath - token repositioning on >> upgrades is one of the most complex processes we now have. >> >> * It would be nice if I were allowed to have the program compute runs >> before I decide what tile to lay. Sometimes a company is so spread out it >> isn't obvious where its trains are going. (Of course I can always work >> around this by skipping the tile lay step, then "undo".) >> >> [EV] That's again for Stefan, I think. >> >> * When deciding whether to pay, split, or withhold, it would be nice if >> the screen showed how much money the company will have after each choice. >> This isn't always easy to work out in your head, especially if there are >> some shares paying dividends into the treasury. This goes for all games. >> >> [EV] Where should the screen show that? Below each of these buttons? >> >> * Please get rid of the pop-up "<company> owns no trains, so revenue is >> $0." Instead, just silently skip the revenue-setting step. >> >> [EV] Agree. >> >> * The column that now reports "Pay out", "Withhold", or "Split" for the >> last turn of each company ought to say "$0 income" (or maybe "No run" or >> "No train") when that is true, so it doesn't look like the owner chose to >> withhold. >> >> [EV] A sensible refinement. >> >> * A company's train-buying step is correctly skipped if it has no room >> for >> another train, but it should also be skipped (that is, "Buy Train" should >> be grayed out) if the company has $0 and at least one train. Similarly, >> if >> a company spends its last dollar on a train (including forced purchases), >> its train-buying step should immediately end. >> (I believe this goes for all games -- or does anyone on this list really >> think that any game exists in which a train "purchase" from another >> company >> for $0 is allowed? But even if you do, it's explicitly banned in 18EU.) >> >> [EV] Right, but see my above remark on skipping existing actions. >> >> * When it's impossible for the company to buy or sell any treasury >> shares, >> the TRADING TREASURY SHARES step should be skipped. (I'm mostly thinking >> of the situation when all shares of the company are owned by players, but >> it also applies if the company has no shares in treasury and has too >> little >> cash to buy one from the bank pool, or there are 5 shares in the bank pool >> and the company has too little cash to buy one.) Because of the change of >> focus, this is a major waste of time, especially in the late game when the >> only shares not owned by players are those of companies that were never >> started. >> >> [EV] Yes, that makes sense, but see above. >> >> * Buying and selling treasury stock works correctly, except one minor >> detail: when I mouse-over the "treasury shares" column, the tooltip says >> "click to select for buying" (even though it would be selling). >> >> [EV] OK. >> >> Stock rounds: >> >> * When floating a new company, if I buy until I have 60% and then merge >> in >> another minor company (to get more than 60% until the next stock round, >> which is specifically allowed in the rules) the exchange occurs but the >> "Done" button stays grayed out, making it impossible to continue the game >> without Undoing the exchange. >> >> [EV] Will look at that bug (if Stefan doesn't beat me) >> >> * If I start a company (purchase the president's share) and then Undo the >> act of forming it, the status window continues to show the company with >> the >> share price I set. >> >> [EV] Guess we're missing a state variable here. >> >> * When I buy shares from a company's treasury, the amount of money in >> that >> treasury is usually not updated right away. >> >> [EV] OK >> >> Ending: >> >> * Please get rid of BOTH pop-ups saying the bank has broken. Instead, >> just change the space on the Game Status window where the amount of money >> in the bank is normally shown to say "BROKEN", maybe in bright colors. >> >> [EV] The former is simple, the latter a bit less so, but I agree. >> >> * The repeated pop-ups that "count down" to the winning player are even >> more annoying. >> >> [EV] Fully agree. Luckily I can plead innocence here... >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances >> and start using them to simplify application deployment and >> accelerate your shift to cloud computing >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Rails-devel mailing list >> Rai...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances >> and start using them to simplify application deployment and >> accelerate your shift to cloud computing >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Rails-devel mailing list >> Rai...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances > and start using them to simplify application deployment and > accelerate your shift to cloud computing > http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev > > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > |
