Re: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary

[Chris S. <chr...@gm...>]

The disadvantage of simply filing bugs and feature requests, of course, is
that there is virtually no discussion of them, because they are not seen by
90% of the people on this list.

I often file the bug or feature request and also post here, but that's
double work.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.


On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:

> All good suggestions, and all of these would make nice entries in the
> Feature Request or Bug Report lists. That would have the added benefit that
> any discussions can be saved there too.
>
> Some comments from my side; some aspects I will have to leave to Stefan.
>
> Just one general remark: some ideas sound simple, and in theory anything is
> possible, but we should keep in mind that there is always a price, however
> small. Additional complexity, slower speed, or just larger code. We should
> not make Rails so big that the word "bloated" starts coming to mind.
>
> Erik
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John David Galt [mailto:jd...@di...]
> Sent: Saturday 11 September 2010 04:32
> To: rai...@li...
> Subject: [Rails-devel] Rails 1.4 18EU playtest with commentary
>
> Comments on Rails 1.4, tested with a four player game of 18EU  2010-09-09
>
> General comments:
>
> *  In the "select game" dialog box, changing to a different game should not
> cause all players to be set back to "none" and the names blanked.
>
> [EV] Sure. That's a bug to me.
>
> *  The map should show "Y", where needed, on unbuilt city hexes.  This is a
> major annoyance during the start round, because it affects both the city's
> revenue and the possible shapes of the yellow tile, so not seeing it makes
> it hard to predict the values of minors.  (Yes, I know, I can find this out
> by mousing-over each one, but that is annoying.)
>
> [EV] I'm a bit surprised that you consider this an annoyance. For me, the
> hard and fast rule is that all minor start cities are either preprinted
> yellow or Y cities, and vice versa. But it is easy to create an extra blank
> Y city tile, so that's on my list.
>
> *  The map also ought to show the values of red areas.  (I would treat each
> one as a "tile" with a negative number that gets upgraded by phase
> changes.)
>
> [EV] Creating a separate red tile for each possible revenue value sounds
> like overkill to me. Another idea could be to overprint red tiles with the
> current revenue value. The problem is that such values will look similar to
> tile laying cost.
> Talking about "the map" - I would love it if we would have map images (as
> SVG files). Then we could show any info we would like.
>
> *  Entering a comment before the first action in the game should be
> allowed.
>
> *  Entering two comments in a row should append, not replace.
>
> [EV] I leave these two for Stefan.
>
> *  It would be nice if the Game Status window had a column showing each
> player's total income in the last round.  This would act as a reminder that
> the player who is falling furthest behind had better DO SOMETHING! (and
> conversely, that the player who is making the most money should probably
> not
> change the status quo, by buying lots of trains or starting new companies).
>
> [EV] Great suggestion. High on my list.
>
> *  It would be nice if the program could remember (or let you save in a
> config file) the locations of every window, so you don't have to move them
> manual every time you start a game (and often afterward too).  I always use
> these settings.
>   Stock market: upper left corner of screen
>   "Game Status" tabulation/stock round input: lower left corner of screen
>   Map/operating round input: upper right corner of screen (and don't allow
>       the height to self-adjust so it's taller than the screen height minus
>       the Windows menu bar -- it now does so at the start of every OR until
>       there are too few companies to cause it (in my case, 10 companies).
>       The map also moves so it extends about an inch to the right of the
>       screen, every time.)
>   History/comment window: lower right corner
>
> [EV] I believe Stefan is already considering this one.
>
> All of the above apply to all games, except that I believe the 1830 and
> 1835
> maps do show you where the lettered tiles go.  Due credit: 18EU does show
> the two "B-V" hexes.
>
> Start round:
>
> *  It would be nice to have alternate starts available, such as any
>   combination of:
>   $400 each to start;
>   all starting prices reduced to $50;
>   bidding round order 1,2,3,4,4,3,2,1,1,2,3,4,4,3,2.
>
> [EV] "such as" - where do the possibilities end? However, your suggestions
> sound like a sensible subset of the infinite universe of possible
> alternatives.
>
> *  "Unlimited tiles" should not be an all-or-nothing setting: there should
> be a setting to make only #7, #8, and #9 unlimited (this is what the rules
> say to do in 18EU, 1826, and 1853v2, and probably many other games).
>
> [EV] I cannot find this in the 18EU rules. However, it's a common
> extension,
> and I agree that it could be a generic option.
>
> *  Bids (above the starting value) look the same as the prices of things
> you've already bought.  Please change this: it makes it nonobvious who
> already owns more companies than others.
>
> *  There should be some visual indication of which players can still bid on
> the current item.
>
> *  A player is correctly skipped when an item someone else selected for
> bidding would cost more than he has.  But if it's your turn to select an
> item and you have less than $100, "Bid" ought to be grayed out and isn't.
>
> [EV] Three sensible UI improvements for the start rounds.
>
> Operating rounds:
>
> *  The map should show the reserved hexes controlled by certain minors.
> (I don't expect them to be enforced yet, just shown.)
>
> [EV] Agree. I think there should be a generic configuration option to add
> any text to any tile.
>
> *  Please enforce the rule that minors can't lay green tiles.
>
> [EV] I'm pretty sure that this worked correctly until recently. Stefan, I
> think to have been working on the tile laying rules - can you please check?
>
> *  When no tile lay is legally possible, please skip the tile-lay step.
> (Which would mean that after the first couple of rounds, most minors' tile-
> lay step would be skipped, speeding up the game a lot.)
>
> [EV] This can only be done if the current disconnect between knowing about
> legal lays (in the UI only) and the round/step management (in the game
> engine) has been fixed. Be aware, though, that any additional action skips
> will make all previous saved files unloadable, insofar these contain
> pass/done actions that are now skipped. I'm very reluctant to do add or
> remove such steps, as that will (again) invalidate many of my saved files
> that I use for testing.
>
> *  When placing tile #581 (green upgrade) in Berlin and trying it both ways
> it will go, the tokens that are already there (#9 and KPEV, which I formed
> from #7) are shown, respectively, along the SE and NW edges, rather than
> the
> NE and SW which are the existing connections they must keep.  They move to
> the correct places once I make the tile lay final, but showing them wrong
> makes it harder to place the tile correctly.
>
> [EV] Will look at that. Don't hold your breath - token repositioning on
> upgrades is one of the most complex processes we now have.
>
> *  It would be nice if I were allowed to have the program compute runs
> before I decide what tile to lay.  Sometimes a company is so spread out it
> isn't obvious where its trains are going.  (Of course I can always work
> around this by skipping the tile lay step, then "undo".)
>
> [EV] That's again for Stefan, I think.
>
> *  When deciding whether to pay, split, or withhold, it would be nice if
> the screen showed how much money the company will have after each choice.
> This isn't always easy to work out in your head, especially if there are
> some shares paying dividends into the treasury.  This goes for all games.
>
> [EV] Where should the screen show that? Below each of these buttons?
>
> *  Please get rid of the pop-up "<company> owns no trains, so revenue is
> $0."  Instead, just silently skip the revenue-setting step.
>
> [EV] Agree.
>
> *  The column that now reports "Pay out", "Withhold", or "Split" for the
> last turn of each company ought to say "$0 income" (or maybe "No run" or
> "No train") when that is true, so it doesn't look like the owner chose to
> withhold.
>
> [EV] A sensible refinement.
>
> *  A company's train-buying step is correctly skipped if it has no room for
> another train, but it should also be skipped (that is, "Buy Train" should
> be grayed out) if the company has $0 and at least one train.  Similarly, if
> a company spends its last dollar on a train (including forced purchases),
> its train-buying step should immediately end.
> (I believe this goes for all games -- or does anyone on this list really
> think that any game exists in which a train "purchase" from another company
> for $0 is allowed?  But even if you do, it's explicitly banned in 18EU.)
>
> [EV] Right, but see my above remark on skipping existing actions.
>
> *  When it's impossible for the company to buy or sell any treasury shares,
> the TRADING TREASURY SHARES step should be skipped.  (I'm mostly thinking
> of the situation when all shares of the company are owned by players, but
> it also applies if the company has no shares in treasury and has too little
> cash to buy one from the bank pool, or there are 5 shares in the bank pool
> and the company has too little cash to buy one.)  Because of the change of
> focus, this is a major waste of time, especially in the late game when the
> only shares not owned by players are those of companies that were never
> started.
>
> [EV] Yes, that makes sense, but see above.
>
> *  Buying and selling treasury stock works correctly, except one minor
> detail: when I mouse-over the "treasury shares" column, the tooltip says
> "click to select for buying" (even though it would be selling).
>
> [EV] OK.
>
> Stock rounds:
>
> *  When floating a new company, if I buy until I have 60% and then merge in
> another minor company (to get more than 60% until the next stock round,
> which is specifically allowed in the rules) the exchange occurs but the
> "Done" button stays grayed out, making it impossible to continue the game
> without Undoing the exchange.
>
> [EV] Will look at that bug (if Stefan doesn't beat me)
>
> *  If I start a company (purchase the president's share) and then Undo the
> act of forming it, the status window continues to show the company with the
> share price I set.
>
> [EV] Guess we're missing a state variable here.
>
> *  When I buy shares from a company's treasury, the amount of money in that
> treasury is usually not updated right away.
>
> [EV] OK
>
> Ending:
>
> *  Please get rid of BOTH pop-ups saying the bank has broken.  Instead,
> just change the space on the Game Status window where the amount of money
> in the bank is normally shown to say "BROKEN", maybe in bright colors.
>
> [EV] The former is simple, the latter a bit less so, but I agree.
>
> *  The repeated pop-ups that "count down" to the winning player are even
> more annoying.
>
> [EV] Fully agree. Luckily I can plead innocence here...
>
>
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