Re: [Rails-devel] 1851 - Operating Company can't sell a share twicein one turn

[brett l. <bre...@gm...>]

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@xs...> wrote:
> In Rails, all sell *actions* of shares of the same company (without
> intervening buy action) constitute one *transaction*, for the purpose of
> price setting and/or price movement.
>
> The one game that necessitates this behaviour is 1835, where most companies
> have both (non-president) 10% and 20%, or 5% and 10% share certificates. The
> Rails selling mechanic allows selling only one such share unit type in one
> *action*. So if you want to sell one 5% share and one 10% share of PR at the
> same price, two actions are required to make one transaction.
>
> That's the main reason behind this behaviour. And yes, it precludes repeated
> selling in one turn at a lower price after each action, as some people would
> like to have it. We could add an option that allows this, but that option,
> when selected, would have a probably unwanted side effect on 1835.
>

I would like to see this option exist, but only for games that allow
it. Perhaps a game-specific XML option is the way to go here?

> Erik.

---Brett.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Davies [mailto:de...@gm...]
> Sent: Friday 16 July 2010 10:28
> To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1851 - Operating Company can't sell a share
> twicein one turn
>
> I don't believe there is a general consensus among all players but I
> would like to think that the prevailing opinion is that in games where
> selling a 'block' of shares causes a price drop, you cannot sell 1,
> then sell 1, then sell 1 without passing in between and allowing other
> people to react.  If you specifically want to sell to drop the price
> and are happy to take the hit then you have to sell, let the other
> players have a turn each to react, then sell again.
>
> Now, this refers to stock round actions and 1851 where a company is
> selling/buying is an operating round action.  It's not clear from the
> rules I agree but the way we always play these games face to face is
> that each company gets one 'transaction', that is either sell or buy,
> and if you can do as many certs as you like in that transaction.  We
> mostly apply this to EU.
>
> This is only really an issue when you drop one row per block, that
> doesn't happen in 1851, so despite the fact that the 'correct' way of
> doing it would be to just choose to sell all the shares you want in
> the first transaction, someone could theoretically sell 1, sell 1,
> sell 1 and it won't make any difference to the gamestate than selling
> 3 in one transaction, so in this case it should be allowed (despite
> the fact that the user could just click 'undo' then sell the correct
> number of shares as a faster way of doing it.  I'm just trying to
> think of what makes a more pleasant user experience, they shouldn't
> really be left confused because they didn't spot the dropdown box on
> the sell screen
>
> Phil
>
> On 15 July 2010 22:49, Stefan Frey <ste...@we...> wrote:
>> A current open bug report for 1851:
>>> When I try to sell a second company share during that company's operating
>>> round, Rails says I can't sell after buying. This appears to be
>>> inconsistent with the rules.
>> refers to the fact that it is not possible to sell other shares from the
>> Treasury after a first sell transaction (and the error message is
> confusing).
>>
>> Question is, similar to the discussion we had previously on selling in
>> separate transactions but same player turn in 1835, 1830 and 1870:
>>
>> Should the second transaction use the initial price at the start of the
>> players turn (thus identical to the one used for the first transaction) or
>> the reduced price taking the the stock market reaction into account?
>>
>> I have not found a ruling in 1851, thus I am inclined to follow the
> current
>> standard implementation in Rails (identical to the first transaction),
>> however - if I remember correctly - there was no general consensus for
> this
>> (at least for 1830).
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>
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