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Re: [Rails-devel] Another train-buying related bug
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From: Chris S. <chr...@gm...> - 2009-11-27 00:50:45
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I sent you a personal invitation to edit the spreadsheet. That should let you double click anywhere there is a formula (all the salmon colored cells, for example) and see the underlying formula. -- Chris Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote: > At a glance? Hmm... but I suppose you'll get accustomed to it pretty soon > ;-) > Basically the speadsheet looks like the Game Status window turned 90 > degrees, and with detailed OR info added. > Putting copies of all that with extra info in yet another window is doable. > > But I doubt if such a window would be easy to use for entering moves (also > given the limitations of Java Swing), > so I guess the current windows would need to stay for that purpose. > > BTW the double-clicking didn't work for me. > > The Rails architecture is based upon the idea that one day we will have a > central server, where the game engine runs, which also has all the data. > Each player has a client showing the UI. And there might be a (playing or > non-playing) moderator also having a client. > Players can only undo their own moves, only the moderator can undo across > player turns. > Hence the difference between Undo and Forced Undo. > > But I'm afraid we are still pretty far away from a full implementation of > that idea. > In the current version it is rather a pain to have this player/moderator > difference, so perhaps it would be better to remove it for the time being. > > Erik. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...] > *Sent:* Thursday 26 November 2009 23:37 > > *To:* Development list for Rails: an 18xx game > *Subject:* Re: [Rails-devel] Another train-buying related bug > > My response to this is that I would suggest that you remove some of the > information data table from the Map window and create a separate Table > window with the kind of information I'm describing. It's clear that one of > the barriers to adding information is that the Map window is cluttered with > a lot of information and adding columns/data to it is undesirable. > > The Report Window is necessary and useful. A few enhancements could make > it easier to read, but I'm not advocating doing away with it. I'm just > suggesting that data tables would be a good supplement, as would replay of > tiles. > > p.s. Undo doesn't seem to work as I would expect. I find the interaction > between Undo and Forced Undo a bit confusing. Maybe it would be possible to > let someone double click the name of a company in the map window and then > step through that company's turn? A set of actions is either a company turn > or once around the table in the stock round. I'm used to seeing stock round > displays like this: > > player A action > player B action > player C action > > player A action > player B action > player C action > > I hope everyone takes these as suggestions for improvement and not just as > criticisms of the current design. I'm thrilled to have Rails available and > foresee that in the not-so-distant future it will entirely replace playing > by Vassal and CyberBoard for me. It's great. > > I'll admit to being someone who found Lemmi's Moderator display to be a bit > inferior to the spreadsheets that are available for play now. Take a look > at this spreadsheet: > > > https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqDz8TiDzvbXdFo0MlJ5b2diX21ISXNWWkhGMnc0QXc&hl=en > > It shows at a glance what has happened during each operating round. > Admittedly, the information in the stock round tabs is less informative. > Take a look at the OR5a sheet. You can see at a glance what each company > did with its money on the OR. You can even double click the 740 amount paid > and see that Pac paid 300 for one train (presumably from the bank) and 440 > for another, which must obviously have been from Mex. > > -- > Chris > > Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. > > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote: > >> So, a few suggestions for improvement in the Report Window. >> >> 1) It always opens to the top of the file. You have to scroll to the >> bottom to begin. >> >> Done. Next version will scroll down on reload. >> >> 2) There is no indication of when your own last action occurred. You have >> to scroll up, reading the text, to find an indication of what is "new." In >> PBEM, you get this information in packets of text as each company operates, >> and it isn't mashed together with everything else that happened the entire >> game. >> >> Of course, but Rails is not specifically tailored for PBEM yet. The Report >> window is a complete report (I plan to add Save and Print buttons to it) >> that by nature contains everything. >> >> 3) Judicious use of bold and spacing would make it much easier to read. >> Right now, each OR is one long string of text with only line breaks. It's >> hard to see at a glance where a set of actions begins and ends. We could >> also use highlighting for particularly important actions - train purchases >> in red, private purchases in yellow, etc. >> >> What do you call a "set of actions"? A player turn? >> >> 4) In every PBEM I've ever played, we rely heavily on the spreadsheet to >> give us at-a-glance information, which is nowhere near as accessible in the >> text, whether that text is in the various emails or in the Rails Report >> Window. >> >> And? I what ways is such a spreadsheet different from what you see in the >> Rails screens? >> BTW as regards contents, the Rails UI is strongly inspired by Lemmi's >> moderator. >> >> 5) In every PBEM I have ever played, there is a "replay" mode (Vassal and >> CyberBoard both have this) where you can watch what happened since your last >> turn. This gives you visual indications of which tiles have been laid, what >> movements occurred on the stock market, etc. >> >> You have Undo/Redo to play with if you want. A feature to slowly replay >> from the start or some other point would not be unthinkable. >> >> To be honest, the combination of 4 and 5 means that I virtually never read >> the text summaries that are sent in PBEM games. They are only used (by me) >> for debugging when there are problems. I can almost always assess the >> situation at a glance by watching the replay and glancing at the >> spreadsheet. >> >> Well, you sure have raised some food for thought. >> >> p.s. it is very well documented that tables and graphics are easier to >> assess "at a glance" than text. In almost every case in Rails, perhaps with >> the exception of stock round purchases, tables and graphics win out in the >> usability question over text logs by a mile and a half. >> Sure, but the UI is mainly intended to show the current status, whereas >> the Report has the history. That's the way it is for now... >> >> Erik. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 >> 30-Day >> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus >> on >> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with >> Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july >> _______________________________________________ >> Rails-devel mailing list >> Rai...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day > trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus > on > what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with > Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july > _______________________________________________ > Rails-devel mailing list > Rai...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel > > |
