Re: [Rails-devel] Another train-buying related bug

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

At a glance? Hmm... but I suppose you'll get accustomed to it pretty soon
;-) 
Basically the speadsheet looks like the Game Status window turned 90
degrees, and with detailed OR info added.
Putting copies of all that with extra info in yet another window is doable. 
But I doubt if such a window would be easy to use for entering moves (also
given the limitations of Java Swing),
so I guess the current windows would need to stay for that purpose.
 
BTW the double-clicking didn't work for me.
 
The Rails architecture is based upon the idea that one day we will have a
central server, where the game engine runs, which also has all the data.
Each player has a client showing the UI. And there might be a (playing or
non-playing) moderator also having a client. 
Players can only undo their own moves, only the moderator can undo across
player turns.
Hence the difference between Undo and Forced Undo.
 
But I'm afraid we are still pretty far away from a full implementation of
that idea.
In the current version it is rather a pain to have this player/moderator
difference, so perhaps it would be better to remove it for the time being.
 
Erik.


  _____  

From: Chris Shaffer [mailto:chr...@gm...] 
Sent: Thursday 26 November 2009 23:37
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] Another train-buying related bug


My response to this is that I would suggest that you remove some of the
information data table from the Map window and create a separate Table
window with the kind of information I'm describing. It's clear that one of
the barriers to adding information is that the Map window is cluttered with
a lot of information and adding columns/data to it is undesirable.

The Report Window is necessary and useful.  A few enhancements could make it
easier to read, but I'm not advocating doing away with it. I'm just
suggesting that data tables would be a good supplement, as would replay of
tiles.

p.s. Undo doesn't seem to work as I would expect.  I find the interaction
between Undo and Forced Undo a bit confusing.  Maybe it would be possible to
let someone double click the name of a company in the map window and then
step through that company's turn?  A set of actions is either a company turn
or once around the table in the stock round.  I'm used to seeing stock round
displays like this:

player A action
player B action
player C action

player A action
player B action
player C action

I hope everyone takes these as suggestions for improvement and not just as
criticisms of the current design.  I'm thrilled to have Rails available and
foresee that in the not-so-distant future it will entirely replace playing
by Vassal and CyberBoard for me.  It's great.

I'll admit to being someone who found Lemmi's Moderator display to be a bit
inferior to the spreadsheets that are available for play now.  Take a look
at this spreadsheet:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqDz8TiDzvbXdFo0MlJ5b2diX21ISXNWWkh
GMnc0QXc
<https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqDz8TiDzvbXdFo0MlJ5b2diX21ISXNWWk
hGMnc0QXc&hl=en> &hl=en

It shows at a glance what has happened during each operating round.
Admittedly, the information in the stock round tabs is less informative.
Take a look at the OR5a sheet.  You can see at a glance what each company
did with its money on the OR.  You can even double click the 740 amount paid
and see that Pac paid 300 for one train (presumably from the bank) and 440
for another, which must obviously have been from Mex.

--
Chris

Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.



On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Erik Vos <eri...@hc...> wrote:


So, a few suggestions for improvement in the Report Window.

1) It always opens to the top of the file. You have to scroll to the bottom
to begin.
 
Done. Next version will scroll down on reload.

2) There is no indication of when your own last action occurred.  You have
to scroll up, reading the text, to find an indication of what is "new."  In
PBEM, you get this information in packets of text as each company operates,
and it isn't mashed together with everything else that happened the entire
game.
 
Of course, but Rails is not specifically tailored for PBEM yet. The Report
window is a complete report (I plan to add Save and Print buttons to it)
that by nature contains everything.

3) Judicious use of bold and spacing would make it much easier to read.
Right now, each OR is one long string of text with only line breaks. It's
hard to see at a glance where a set of actions begins and ends.  We could
also use highlighting for particularly important actions - train purchases
in red, private purchases in yellow, etc.
 
What do you call a "set of actions"? A player turn?

4) In every PBEM I've ever played, we rely heavily on the spreadsheet to
give us at-a-glance information, which is nowhere near as accessible in the
text, whether that text is in the various emails or in the Rails Report
Window.
 
And? I what ways is such a spreadsheet different from what you see in the
Rails screens?
BTW as regards contents, the Rails UI is strongly inspired by Lemmi's
moderator.

5) In every PBEM I have ever played, there is a "replay" mode (Vassal and
CyberBoard both have this) where you can watch what happened since your last
turn.  This gives you visual indications of which tiles have been laid, what
movements occurred on the stock market, etc.
 
You have Undo/Redo to play with if you want. A feature to slowly replay from
the start or some other point would not be unthinkable.

To be honest, the combination of 4 and 5 means that I virtually never read
the text summaries that are sent in PBEM games.  They are only used (by me)
for debugging when there are problems.  I can almost always assess the
situation at a glance by watching the replay and glancing at the
spreadsheet.
 
Well, you sure have raised some food for thought.
 
p.s. it is very well documented that tables and graphics are easier to
assess "at a glance" than text.  In almost every case in Rails, perhaps with
the exception of stock round purchases, tables and graphics win out in the
usability question over text logs by a mile and a half.

Sure, but the UI is mainly intended to show the current status, whereas the
Report has the history. That's the way it is for now... 
 
Erik.
 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day
trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus
on
what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
_______________________________________________
Rails-devel mailing list
Rai...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rails-devel