Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 CGR formation

[Erik V. <eri...@hc...>]

But... if it is legal, and there *possibly* might be a good reason for it, I
might have to give players that option.
Although I'd prefer not to do so. 
Spending $10 to deny CGR $90 of starting cash might in theory in be useful
if you're low on CGR shares. Not so in reality?

Erik.

-----Original Message-----
From: brett lentz [mailto:wak...@gm...] 
Sent: Saturday 24 January 2009 08:04
To: Development list for Rails: an 18xx game
Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 CGR formation

It's legal, but why would you bother?   If it's going to fold into the
CGR anyway, why throw away your personal cash? As far as I can tell,
all you're doing is voluntarily making it easier for your opponents to
win.

There might be some obscure, situational reason why you might do this,
but in general, there's no reason to do so.

---Brett.

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Jonathan Ferro
<jon...@ya...> wrote:
> I like all these answers, so I only have one additional question:
>
> If the company has 3 loans and $90, is it allowed for the player to add
only $10 to pay off only one loan, so that the company will fold into the
CGR and yet contribute no cash?  I suppose I could go parse this out of the
rulebook, but might as well cover all the cases in open discussion...
>
> -- Jonathan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: John David Galt <jd...@di...>
> To: rai...@li...
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:15:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [Rails-devel] 1856 CGR formation
>
> Erik Vos wrote:
>> Next thing for me to do is the final loan repayment/CGR formation
process.
> [snip]
>> "The loans are repaid in $100 increments. If outstanding loans remain
>> after the treasury is depleted, the player *may* repay the remainder,
>> supplementing the cash remaining in the tresury with personal cash"
>> (my emphasis).
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> 1. I suppose that "may" means, that adding personal cash is optional.
>
> Right.
>
>> 2. The rules don't say, that paying only part from the remainder by the
>> president is not allowed, but that would clearly be a silly thing to do.
>> So I take it that adding personal cash is in practice a matter of
>> all-or-nothing, i.e. all I have to do asking a yes/no question to
>> the president (if he has enough cash):
>> "Are you going to pay all of the remainder?"
>
> Yes, but the decision is made separately for each railroad that still
> has loans after paying off as many as it can.  Often, a player will be
> president of three or four companies at this point in the game, and he
> has a completely free choice of which companies, if any, to bail out,
> up to the limits of his purse.
>
>> If the president doesn't have enough cash, no question need be asked at
all.
>
> Only if he hasn't the money to save any of his companies.
>
>> 3. I wonder what this sentence about $100 increments means.
>> Say that the company has $300 loans and $150 cash, and the president
>> pays all of the remainder, do company and president then pay $150 each,
>> or $100 and $200 (leaving $50 in the treasury)?
>
> The sentence about $100 increments means the company must automatically
> pay off loans until it has less than $100 left, or until it is debt free.
> So in your example, the company must pay one loan for $100 before its
> president even gets to make a choice.
>
> If the president does contribute any cash from his hand, the company's
> treasury must be used up first, just as it is during a forced train
> purchase.
>
>> 4. And if the president pays nothing, then $100 is repaid and $50 is left
>> to feed the CGR?
>
> Correct.
>
>> 5. "If the player is president of more than one company, the player
>> chooses the order in which those companies repay their loans" -
>> I would think that if payment from personal cash is optional,
>> this order is immaterial. Did I miss something?
>> (I'm asking this because it's a lot easier to have the game engine
>> determine the sequence, and as far as I can see it doesn't matter).
>
> Answered under #2 above.
>
>> On the implementation:
>>
>> I think the mentioned yes/no question is all player interaction
>> in this whole process (except for a few decisions that the new
>> CGR president may need to take regarding trains and tokens).
>> So, once the merging companies are known,
>> the whole repayment/CGR formation process will run
>> automatically in the background, reporting the actions in the
>> Game Report window and I think also in a popup message.
>> The Game Status window will be properly updated.
>>
>> Right?
>
> Mostly yes.  But you need to go around the table asking the question
> in the proper order (clockwise, beginning with the player who bought
> the 6 train), and let each player see the money and holdings of all
> players and the bank pool (and any decisions that were made before
> his) before he makes his decision.
>
> There are exactly enough CGR shares to exchange for 40 shares, so if
> 4 or fewer companies merge in, all shareholders will get to exchange
> their shares 2-for-1 (except for the odd share when the total number
> of merging-company shares held by a player is odd).
>
> But if more than 4 companies merge, some shares will be lost.  Thus
> the player in position to merge a 5th (or later) company may or may
> not want to do it, depending on what shares are held by him and by
> the players who merged their companies first.  Conversely, a player
> in an early position may want to merge more companies than he needs
> to control the CGR, in order to deprive the other players.
>
>
>
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