Re: [Rails-devel] Setting Erie home base during green upgrade

[John D. G. <jd...@di...>]

>>> John David Galt wrote:
>>>> But when one of those hexes -- or any OO, XX, or similar hex that
>>>> already has at least one token -- gets a tile laid on it, THEN
>>>> whoever lays the tile (NOT necessarily the company owner!) should
>>>> be prompted to choose which station gets which token.

>> Erik Vos wrote:
>>> That is how I have implemented it, but I'm having second thoughts
>>> about that. In fact I had intended to let the president make the 
>>> choice, but I overlooked the possibility that another player might 
>>> update such a OO or XX hex to green. This is rather unlikely,
>>> though, so perhaps I'll leave it as is. The rules are completely
>>> silent about this question.

I agree, for all three games.

>>>> I have always played that if these companies have no home tile
>>>> and don't bother to lay it on their first turn, they give up their
>>>> right to make this choice.

>>> I would rule differently, but I don't know if there is any basis to
>>> settle this dispute. Has there ever be a ruling on this matter?

> John David Galt wrote:
>> Not that I'm aware of.  It was debated a year ago on the 18xx list.

Erik Vos wrote:
> Found, that was in Feb 2007.

>> The main case where it would come up is when someone opens the Erie
>> or THB just before the permanent trains come out, as a source of
>> capital, and doesn't want it to have to buy a train, so he doesn't
>> build it a route.  The other nearby players will want to thwart this
>> tactic by building a route for that company.  If (say) the NYC lays
>> Erie's home OO tile after Erie has had two turns, it seems to me
>> it's against the spirit of the game to then allow Erie to say, "my
>> home station is the one your track doesn't connect to."  Erie had
>> its chance and passed it.

> That makes some sense too.

I should explain this a little better:

I'm reasoning from the general rule (in all 18xx games, I believe) that
if you upgrade a tile where token(s) are already present, and there is
a choice of which city is which, the person making the upgrade chooses.

I believe that in all games except 1835, each company's home token is
automatically (and involuntarily) placed in a city circle on its home
hex -- even if the hex has no tile and the city has no track connected
to it.  If this is true, then the general rule applies when the tile is
laid afterward, no matter who does it.  This, in my view, answers the
question for Erie and THB.

In 1835, most companies' home tokens are placed immediately upon
flotation, during the stock round.  But version 1 of the English rules
made BA an explicit exception to that timing, saying that its home
token is not placed until someone lays a green tile on Ludwigshafen/
Mannheim.  If that is true, then BA's owner will always have his choice
of those two green cities.

But as you say, that exception does not seem to be stated in version 2.
Was that deletion an intentional change, or just carelessness?
Reasonable people will differ.  But if it was an intentional change,
then the general rule applies, just as it does to Erie and THB.

> As said before, I'm not going to change anything now. But I don't
> consider the issue settled.

Me neither.  Perhaps the best answer is to make it a setting that a GM
can change (such as an option in the game definition .xml file).