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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2024-03-01 18:37:26
|
I want to do a version release soon. I need to setup a test environment and switch libsnet to the GitHub repo that I just made public. https://github.com/Radmind/libsnet James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 > On Mar 1, 2024, at 10:16, Scott Hannahs <st...@ma...> wrote: > > WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. > > Might be able to do a version bump source setup and packaging. I haven’t messed with he packaging in awhile. > > -Scott > >> On Mar 1, 2024, at 12:05, Hauke Fath (SPG) <hf...@sp...> wrote: >> >> On 2024-02-20 22:51, Scott Hannahs via Radmind-users wrote: >>> I have a large infrastructure of machines that are managed by radmind >>> for checking and updating applications as well as updating various >>> data and configuration files. Not sure how this will survive if I >>> ever retire. >> >> Sounds familiar - I have about forty Arch Linux desktops managed by Radmind, and a slowly increasing number of {Net,Free}BSD servers. >> >> Apart from little quirks, I am quite happy with the workflow, but I never got more than fleeting interest from colleagues. >> >> As a perk, I built a setup to manage two virtual servers, and the sandbox system used for tests and updates, based on creative ssh tunneling. >> >> Thanks for the commits. Do you think you could cut a release any time soon? The pkgsrc sysutils/radmind is still on 1.14.1. >> >> Cheerio, >> Hauke >> >> -- >> The ASCII Ribbon Campaign Hauke Fath >> () No HTML/RTF in email Institut für Nachrichtentechnik >> /\ No Word docs in email TU Darmstadt >> Respect for open standards Ruf +49-6151-16-21344 >> > |
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From: Scott H. <st...@ma...> - 2024-03-01 17:31:46
|
Might be able to do a version bump source setup and packaging. I haven’t messed with he packaging in awhile.
-Scott
> On Mar 1, 2024, at 12:05, Hauke Fath (SPG) <hf...@sp...> wrote:
>
> On 2024-02-20 22:51, Scott Hannahs via Radmind-users wrote:
>> I have a large infrastructure of machines that are managed by radmind
>> for checking and updating applications as well as updating various
>> data and configuration files. Not sure how this will survive if I
>> ever retire.
>
> Sounds familiar - I have about forty Arch Linux desktops managed by Radmind, and a slowly increasing number of {Net,Free}BSD servers.
>
> Apart from little quirks, I am quite happy with the workflow, but I never got more than fleeting interest from colleagues.
>
> As a perk, I built a setup to manage two virtual servers, and the sandbox system used for tests and updates, based on creative ssh tunneling.
>
> Thanks for the commits. Do you think you could cut a release any time soon? The pkgsrc sysutils/radmind is still on 1.14.1.
>
> Cheerio,
> Hauke
>
> --
> The ASCII Ribbon Campaign Hauke Fath
> () No HTML/RTF in email Institut für Nachrichtentechnik
> /\ No Word docs in email TU Darmstadt
> Respect for open standards Ruf +49-6151-16-21344
>
|
|
From: Hauke F. (SPG) <hf...@sp...> - 2024-03-01 17:24:52
|
On 2024-02-20 22:51, Scott Hannahs via Radmind-users wrote:
> I have a large infrastructure of machines that are managed by radmind
> for checking and updating applications as well as updating various
> data and configuration files. Not sure how this will survive if I
> ever retire.
Sounds familiar - I have about forty Arch Linux desktops managed by
Radmind, and a slowly increasing number of {Net,Free}BSD servers.
Apart from little quirks, I am quite happy with the workflow, but I
never got more than fleeting interest from colleagues.
As a perk, I built a setup to manage two virtual servers, and the
sandbox system used for tests and updates, based on creative ssh tunneling.
Thanks for the commits. Do you think you could cut a release any time
soon? The pkgsrc sysutils/radmind is still on 1.14.1.
Cheerio,
Hauke
--
The ASCII Ribbon Campaign Hauke Fath
() No HTML/RTF in email Institut für Nachrichtentechnik
/\ No Word docs in email TU Darmstadt
Respect for open standards Ruf +49-6151-16-21344
|
|
From: Scott H. <st...@ma...> - 2024-02-20 23:26:25
|
James, I have a large infrastructure of machines that are managed by radmind for checking and updating applications as well as updating various data and configuration files. Not sure how this will survive if I ever retire. I have a command files for each of several OS versions from Leopard through Sonoma (I skip a few). Hopefully the Leopard computers will be retired this year but I have been saying that for the last 5 years. Since the OS and Safari are now locked in immutable sections of the file system, the process is much simpler. I get a snapshot of all files after a clean install of the OS and then add in my transcripts for the generic applications, configuration and data files. This is all very fast and simple. I guess the hard part is getting the first machine and installing applications one by one and then capturing the changes. I agree that you should fork libsnet and bring it into the radmind GitHub. I have a couple of tweaks that allows building the library as a fat (arm64 and x86_64) binary, I have a patch for fixing that crash, but it now is giving me headaches in trying to create a pull request for it. The install is just the executables into /usr/bin/local and I haven’t tried building a new installer package. i would like to try updating the Radmind Server Manger to a 64 bit app since that is the only GUI I use. -Scott > On Feb 16, 2024, at 11:54, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: > > Interesting. > > Well, I would like to still use radmind. When I quit using radmind I lost a lot of confidence in my computers. It's just hard to get started back up. If I can figure out how to make it easy, I might start using it for some thing, not for deploying software though. > > I also want to make it a lot easier to install. > > I also need to move the network library to Github. > > I wish some of the original developers were willing to talk about the code. I've reached out to a few of them and they all seem to want nothing to do with it. > > James Reynolds > Sr Systems Administrator > School of Biological Sciences > The University of Utah > 801-585-3086 > >> On Feb 16, 2024, at 09:47, Scott Hannahs <sha...@us...> wrote: >> >> WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. >> >> The ability to cut and paste a transcript line into a shell command has made my life infinitely easier. Ability to track down issues with permissions folders etc. >> >> It will still allow use of older transcripts with the \b notation. BUT, new transcripts are written with the \<space> formatting. >> >> Of course YMMV and some custom transcript manipulation transcripts might need fixing. Of course I might be the only one still using radmind. :-) >> >> (note the patch for the memory leak seems to have caused a crash in certain circumstances. I am investigating now). >> >> -Scott >> >> >>> On Feb 16, 2024, at 11:11, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: >>> >>> sth0 made some pull requests and I've merged some and wanted to ask what anyone on the list thinks of one. >>> >>> Merged: >>> >>> - Patch to ignore timestamps with -t option for smaller transcripts (changes fsdiff) >>> - sth-memory leak in OpenSSL calls - Bug fixes >>> >>> Seeking comments: >>> >>> - Allow \<space> to replace \b to represent blanks in file names. >>> >>> I don't use radmind anymore, but when I was, this would've some of my custom scripts. So I'm asking about it here first. >>> >>> James Reynolds >>> Sr Systems Administrator >>> School of Biological Sciences >>> The University of Utah >>> 801-585-3086 >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Radmind-users mailing list > Rad...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2024-02-20 22:35:50
|
Scott, That's a lot of command files! I created a repo just for these! https://github.com/Radmind/radmind-examples I created a discussion. Patrick McNeal said we should feel free to do with it whatever we want. I've reached out to Wes Craig and Andrew Mortensen in the past about different things and they didn't respond. https://github.com/Radmind/radmind/discussions/345 Anyway, I've gone ahead and cloned libsnet to GitHub but it's private right now. GitHub had a tool that migrated the project for me. It was really easy. After a few days, I'll go ahead and make it public and switch the build scripts to use it. One other thing. I've been involved with the pkgx.sh and I've been creating packages for it. I'm working on creating a package for radmind. This is my package for libsnet, which I have to do before I can do radmind. https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/pull/5239 I'm just waiting for them to merge cyrus-sasl, which is used by libsnet. https://github.com/pkgxdev/pantry/pull/5240. James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 > On Feb 20, 2024, at 13:50, Scott Hannahs <sha...@us...> wrote: > > WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. > > James, > > I have a large infrastructure of machines that are managed by radmind for checking and updating applications as well as updating various data and configuration files. Not sure how this will survive if I ever retire. I have a command files for each of several OS versions from Leopard through Sonoma (I skip a few). Hopefully the Leopard computers will be retired this year but I have been saying that for the last 5 years. > > Since the OS and Safari are now locked in immutable sections of the file system, the process is much simpler. I get a snapshot of all files after a clean install of the OS and then add in my transcripts for the generic applications, configuration and data files. This is all very fast and simple. I guess the hard part is getting the first machine and installing applications one by one and then capturing the changes. > > I agree that you should fork libsnet and bring it into the radmind GitHub. I have a couple of tweaks that allows building the library as a fat (arm64 and x86_64) binary, > > I have a patch for fixing that crash, but it now is giving me headaches in trying to create a pull request for it. > > The install is just the executables into /usr/bin/local and I haven’t tried building a new installer package. i would like to try updating the Radmind Server Manger to a 64 bit app since that is the only GUI I use. > > -Scott > > >> On Feb 16, 2024, at 11:54, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: >> >> Interesting. >> >> Well, I would like to still use radmind. When I quit using radmind I lost a lot of confidence in my computers. It's just hard to get started back up. If I can figure out how to make it easy, I might start using it for some thing, not for deploying software though. >> >> I also want to make it a lot easier to install. >> >> I also need to move the network library to Github. >> >> I wish some of the original developers were willing to talk about the code. I've reached out to a few of them and they all seem to want nothing to do with it. >> >> James Reynolds >> Sr Systems Administrator >> School of Biological Sciences >> The University of Utah >> 801-585-3086 >> >>> On Feb 16, 2024, at 09:47, Scott Hannahs <sha...@us...> wrote: >>> >>> WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. >>> >>> The ability to cut and paste a transcript line into a shell command has made my life infinitely easier. Ability to track down issues with permissions folders etc. >>> >>> It will still allow use of older transcripts with the \b notation. BUT, new transcripts are written with the \<space> formatting. >>> >>> Of course YMMV and some custom transcript manipulation transcripts might need fixing. Of course I might be the only one still using radmind. :-) >>> >>> (note the patch for the memory leak seems to have caused a crash in certain circumstances. I am investigating now). >>> >>> -Scott >>> >>> >>>> On Feb 16, 2024, at 11:11, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: >>>> >>>> sth0 made some pull requests and I've merged some and wanted to ask what anyone on the list thinks of one. >>>> >>>> Merged: >>>> >>>> - Patch to ignore timestamps with -t option for smaller transcripts (changes fsdiff) >>>> - sth-memory leak in OpenSSL calls - Bug fixes >>>> >>>> Seeking comments: >>>> >>>> - Allow \<space> to replace \b to represent blanks in file names. >>>> >>>> I don't use radmind anymore, but when I was, this would've some of my custom scripts. So I'm asking about it here first. >>>> >>>> James Reynolds >>>> Sr Systems Administrator >>>> School of Biological Sciences >>>> The University of Utah >>>> 801-585-3086 >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Radmind-users mailing list >> Rad...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users > |
|
From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2024-02-16 16:55:10
|
Interesting. Well, I would like to still use radmind. When I quit using radmind I lost a lot of confidence in my computers. It's just hard to get started back up. If I can figure out how to make it easy, I might start using it for some thing, not for deploying software though. I also want to make it a lot easier to install. I also need to move the network library to Github. I wish some of the original developers were willing to talk about the code. I've reached out to a few of them and they all seem to want nothing to do with it. James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 > On Feb 16, 2024, at 09:47, Scott Hannahs <sha...@us...> wrote: > > WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. > > The ability to cut and paste a transcript line into a shell command has made my life infinitely easier. Ability to track down issues with permissions folders etc. > > It will still allow use of older transcripts with the \b notation. BUT, new transcripts are written with the \<space> formatting. > > Of course YMMV and some custom transcript manipulation transcripts might need fixing. Of course I might be the only one still using radmind. :-) > > (note the patch for the memory leak seems to have caused a crash in certain circumstances. I am investigating now). > > -Scott > > >> On Feb 16, 2024, at 11:11, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: >> >> sth0 made some pull requests and I've merged some and wanted to ask what anyone on the list thinks of one. >> >> Merged: >> >> - Patch to ignore timestamps with -t option for smaller transcripts (changes fsdiff) >> - sth-memory leak in OpenSSL calls - Bug fixes >> >> Seeking comments: >> >> - Allow \<space> to replace \b to represent blanks in file names. >> >> I don't use radmind anymore, but when I was, this would've some of my custom scripts. So I'm asking about it here first. >> >> James Reynolds >> Sr Systems Administrator >> School of Biological Sciences >> The University of Utah >> 801-585-3086 > > |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2024-02-16 16:29:12
|
sth0 made some pull requests and I've merged some and wanted to ask what anyone on the list thinks of one. Merged: - Patch to ignore timestamps with -t option for smaller transcripts (changes fsdiff) - sth-memory leak in OpenSSL calls - Bug fixes Seeking comments: - Allow \<space> to replace \b to represent blanks in file names. I don't use radmind anymore, but when I was, this would've some of my custom scripts. So I'm asking about it here first. James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 |
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From: Scott H. <st...@ma...> - 2022-05-23 03:37:55
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James, I believe it is already on GitHub https://github.com/simta/libsnet https://github.com/seansweda/libsnet Not that either distribution is very active, but you can fork one of these distributions. -Scott > On May 16, 2022, at 4:32 PM, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: > > Github user orbea submitted this pull request (https://github.com/Radmind/radmind/pull/336 <https://github.com/Radmind/radmind/pull/336>) and it requires libsnet changes (https://sourceforge.net/p/libsnet/patches/7/ <https://sourceforge.net/p/libsnet/patches/7/>). I don’t have access to libsnet on SourceForge. Does anyone here? > > I think I should move libsnet to github. Does anybody have any thoughts? > > James Reynolds > Sr Systems Administrator > School of Biological Sciences > The University of Utah > 801-585-3086 > _______________________________________________ > Radmind-users mailing list > Rad...@li... <mailto:Rad...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users> |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-05-16 20:48:07
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Github user orbea submitted this pull request (https://github.com/Radmind/radmind/pull/336) and it requires libsnet changes (https://sourceforge.net/p/libsnet/patches/7/). I don’t have access to libsnet on SourceForge. Does anyone here? I think I should move libsnet to github. Does anybody have any thoughts? James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-22 01:22:03
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I’ve finished the github action that creates a pkg and uploads it to the releases. It’s in my fork right now. I’d love feedback. Releases: https://github.com/magnusviri/radmind/releases Actions: https://github.com/magnusviri/radmind/actions Action yml: https://github.com/magnusviri/radmind/tree/master/.github/workflows I am unsure how to handle versioning. I know the file “VERSION” is used to hard code the version in the binaries, and in the repo it says “internal”. The github action uses the date for the version. If anyone has advice I’d really appreciate it. My fork also differs from the main repo because mine has a docker container for the server. Image: https://github.com/magnusviri?tab=packages&repo_name=radmind My current plans is to figure out how to upload an intel and arm docker image, then I’ll probably switch to a different project for a time. When I come back to radmind, I’m hoping people will have sent me their changes either as the full code, a patch, or a pull request. I’ll incorporate what others have and then I’ll work on the whitespace formatting by replacing all of the tabs with 8 spaces. At some point I also need to add the ability to ignore timestamps. I have no idea when I’ll do this, but Radmind won’t be useful to me until I do it. James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-21 07:44:58
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I’m still working on automatically creating packages. Turns out I haven’t paid attention to the changes Apple made when they switched to flat packages years ago. I guess it’s good for me to learn this stuff. Anyway, I noticed this in the license. Copyright (c) 2003, 2007 Regents of The University of Michigan All Rights Reserved … Research Systems Unix Group The University of Michigan c/o Wesley Craig 4251 Plymouth Road B1F2, #2600 Ann Arbor, MI 48105-2785 ra...@um... http://radmind.org The date is really old. And for contact info it’s got Wes’ name and address, an email, and webpage that I don’t think are used anymore. I should probably change this. I suppose I should try to get in touch with Wes to get guidance. If anyone has any suggestions I’d love to hear it. James Reynolds Sr Systems Administrator School of Biological Sciences The University of Utah 801-585-3086 |
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From: Jim K. <ji...@bg...> - 2022-02-17 01:39:35
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As one of the very early adopters, I was probably one of the rare admins (folks on this list aside) who actually really liked using radmind (most folks I talk to at conference about it look at me like I am crazy for ever having enjoyed using radmind). I stopped using actively using radmind a few years ago, but it was a great and very powerful tool for what I needed to it do. I last used it with High Sierra. With the advent of MDM, and Apple’s not-so-subtle push in that direction, we had to choose whether to maintain two environments that did relatively similar tasks, albeit in a different manner, or consolidate down to one. Unfortunately, I did not have the time to dedicate to maintaining both radmind and Jamf, so we ended up switching to just using Jamf. No endorsement of Jamf whatsoever, just saying that’s what we ended up choosing. There are plenty of other great MDMs, such as SimpleMDM, and software management tools, such as Munki developed by Greg Neagle (another radmind alum) that can handle a lot of what radmind handled in terms of software deployment/management. radmind was great for us for so long, was very reliable and lightweight, and once set up properly and could do almost anything you could think of doing. All of that for no charge! Despite no longer actively using it, I am happy to chat about radmind anytime; I still have a backup of my old server repository. I’ll stay subscribed and follow along, maybe be able to offer some advice if I know an answer, who knows. Either way, I am very much look forward to seeing where the project goes. Anyway, hope to get to see some of you at conferences and the like, and chat about Mac management (and radmind if you want), if and when the conference scene becomes a thing again. All the best, Jim |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-09 19:59:39
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That’s great! I’d like to add that if any of you have patches or any change to the source at all, if you’re too busy to format it for an official pull request, just email me the source code and I’ll try to format it nicely and get it incorporated and everything. BBEdit’s diff’ing abilities will allow me to find what you’ve changed so I’ll be able to figure it out (assuming the original wasn’t something super old like radmind 0.7). James On 2/9/22, 10:48 AM, "Troy V. Barkmeier via Radmind-users" <rad...@li...> wrote: WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. I honestly don't plan on figuring out the APFS issue. I think someone else has already solved it. I'm willing to test it and merge it, if it isn't already merged (I have to look). Yep, I found and fixed this in July of 2019 when we moved to APFS with 10.14 in our labs. My original pull request is here: https://github.com/Radmind/radmind/pull/331 Looks like someone else expanded on it by adding an error check on the resource fork creation step, which is of course the right thing to do. For what it's worth, though, we've been running (and centrally logging) lapply patched with my original code from this pull hundreds of times a day across campus for nearly three years now and have yet to see lapply fail to create a file with a resource fork. :) Best, TVB |
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From: Troy V. B. <tba...@ca...> - 2022-02-09 17:48:22
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> I honestly don't plan on figuring out the APFS issue. I think someone else > has already solved it. I'm willing to test it and merge it, if it isn't > already merged (I have to look). Yep, I found and fixed this in July of 2019 when we moved to APFS with 10.14 in our labs. My original pull request is here: https://github.com/Radmind/radmind/pull/331 Looks like someone else expanded on it by adding an error check on the resource fork creation step, which is of course the right thing to do. For what it's worth, though, we've been running (and centrally logging) lapply patched with my original code from this pull hundreds of times a day across campus for nearly three years now and have yet to see lapply fail to create a file with a resource fork. :) Best, TVB |
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From: Troy V. B. <tba...@ca...> - 2022-02-09 17:36:16
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> > Quick questions for Troy Barkmeier (or anyone that wants to chime in): > - Did settling the relative path to /System/Volumes/Data help simplify > your negative.T at all? > - Are you using any kind of MDM with this (e.g. to deploy a Privacy > Preferences Policy Control profile)? If so, what solution did you pick? Not only did setting the relative path to /System/Volumes/Data *radically* simplify my negative.T, it reduced the line count of my base macOS transcript from ~473,000 lines (10.14.x) to just over 15,000 lines (10.15.x)! This was huge for us, because we run radmind at every logout in the public lab spaces. Knocked at least 60 seconds or more off the run time. As for MDM, we're still cheating on that at the moment because, in the radmind labs, although users log in using their AD/LDAP credentials, once they successfully authenticate they are all passed in to the same local user account. Because everything at the OS level including the user account is 100% identical for every computer, I can still get away with distributing things like the tcc.db and even the contents of ./private/var/db/ConfigurationProfiles with radmind, and it still just works, up through 11.6.1 so far. Because of the radically different imaging procedures for Apple Silicon, however, I am looking into having our Jamf instance do the initial setup of our radmind machines starting next year using DEP like we do for faculty/staff Macs, and then just negging the tcc.db and profiles stuff and letting Jamf handle that part since it'll be there anyway. So nice to talk with other radmind users again. :) Best, TVB |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-09 06:07:42
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I won’t be the only one who deserves credit, especially if folks submit patches. And to be completely honest, even if I were the only one working on it, I don’t think I’d like my initials in it. I really like the 2.0 much more. It really has a way of saying the old roadmap is toast too. Now that I think about it, what even happened to the old RSUG group who developed radmind. I know the individual developers moved on. But did Umich close down the group or did they all leave first? James On 2/7/22, 9:37 PM, "Rodd Kleinschmidt via Radmind-users" <rad...@li...> wrote: WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. (Whoops. Tried to send this as a full reply but the message body was too big and it got held.) Great to hear your thoughts, James. What I agree with most is “...I keep seeing variances in my machines that I can’t track and I need to add the ability to ignore timestamps to get to the bottom of it.” I only manage university computer classrooms and drop-in labs. Uniformity and stability are paramount to our user experience and those qualities are more difficult to find in other Mac management products. My only suggestion, if you find the fire to keep radmind going, is instead of "radmind 2.0,” go with “radmind-jr” — to both denote that the new work is an offspring and to give yourself some well-deserved credit. Sincerely, Rodd Kleinschmidt Macintosh System Administrator / Computer Lab Manager Information & Educational Technology |
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From: Rodd K. <rkl...@uc...> - 2022-02-08 04:37:30
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(Whoops. Tried to send this as a full reply but the message body was too big and it got held.) Great to hear your thoughts, James. What I agree with most is “...I keep seeing variances in my machines that I can’t track and I need to add the ability to ignore timestamps to get to the bottom of it.” I only manage university computer classrooms and drop-in labs. Uniformity and stability are paramount to our user experience and those qualities are more difficult to find in other Mac management products. My only suggestion, if you find the fire to keep radmind going, is instead of "radmind 2.0,” go with “radmind-jr” — to both denote that the new work is an offspring and to give yourself some well-deserved credit. Sincerely, Rodd Kleinschmidt Macintosh System Administrator / Computer Lab Manager Information & Educational Technology |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-08 00:44:06
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I’m glad to hear some people have pull requests. I’m going to put off converting the indentation and instead I’ll work on setting up a testing environment to rapidly test changes. I hope anyone out there with possible patches can submit them all soon. Another choke point change I’d like to make is to move all the source files into a new dir named “src”. I’m aware this will probably be a big change so I likely won’t work on it for a long time, if I do it at all. I guess to finish my indentation discovery, I thought I’d post what I found with various editors. Shows it correct: - - vi - - emacs (I didn’t actually test it) - - nano - - cat - - xedit - - github.com and gitlab.com - - TextEdit (ironic, don’t you think?) Shows it incorrect: - Xcode - BBedit - VSCode - Sublime Text - bat (https://github.com/sharkdp/bat) - micro (https://micro-editor.github.io/) - Textadept - I’m pretty sure all Windows IDE’s I believe this is a historical issue. That is, *almost* everything that didn’t take the Gypsy/Larry Tesler fork in the road, basically Unix CLI stuff, uses 8-space tabs, and everything that took the fork in the road uses 4. Larry Tesler worked on Gypsy in 1975 at Xerox Parc. It was the first GUI word processor and was the first to include cut, copy, and paste as we know it. In contrast, emacs and vi were released in 1976. The ideas in Gypsy basically became the foundation for every GUI text editor we have today. Of course, the ideas in Gypsy didn’t even start to be available to the public until the Macintosh was released in 1984. So emacs and vi were the best editors for a long time and used by probably all developers. I think the fork in the road started when IDE’s became a thing in the 80’s, if I understand history correctly (I was a bit young when this all happened). I’m pretty sure the Windows IDE’s used 4 spaces for tabs. I don’t know what other IDE’s did (MPW, Borland stuff, ISPF, etc), except I believe Larry Tesler had some input into MPW, since he worked at Apple and worked on the Object Pascal that was in the Lisa, which was used to program the first Macintosh apps and was transitioned to the Mac. The exceptions are github.com/gitlab.com and TextEdit. TextEdit actually uses 4-space tabs unless the file ends with “.c”. I think that’s kind of humorous that Xcode uses 4 spaces but TextEdit uses 8. But github.com and gitlab.com show 8-space tabs for every file extension I tried (including .txt). I found this in the css for github: .tab-size[data-tab-size="8"] { -moz-tab-size: 8; tab-size: 8; } So someone made a decision to do it. Anyway, I just looked at a bunch of c source code (https://opensource.apple.com/releases/, the linux kernel, some freebsd code, gcc, httpd, ffmpeg, lua). Most of the files used tabs. Some used 4 spaces. And a few used 2 spaces. But I only found one file that had spaces and tabs in the same line the way the radmind project does, but it wasn’t as systematic as the radmind source files, so it might’ve been a mistake. Anyway, if you still don’t know what I’m talking about, here is what the radmind source files do. To get this: { { { } } } The radmind source does this: Space Space Space Space { Tab { Tab Space Space Space Space { Tab Space Space Space Space } Tab } Space Space Space Space } When you have tabs that are set to 4 spaces, it ends up looking like this. { { { } } } Anyway, I am done talking about this now. James |
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From: Scott H. <st...@ma...> - 2022-02-07 22:40:06
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Actually, I negated /System/Library and used just positive for the Apps and Library (utilities, and preferences) and user login space that I want to manage. -Scott > On Feb 7, 2022, at 3:42 PM, Rodd Kleinschmidt via Radmind-users <rad...@li...> wrote: > > Just to add to the tally. > > I am using radmind on ~500 Macs running Mojave in our university computer classrooms/labs. But like Tom Johnson, I have to move forward this summer with the OS and am considering falling in line with the rest of our campus (Jamf). > > Quick questions for Troy Barkmeier (or anyone that wants to chime in): > - Did settling the relative path to /System/Volumes/Data help simplify your negative.T at all? > - Are you using any kind of MDM with this (e.g. to deploy a Privacy Preferences Policy Control profile)? If so, what solution did you pick? > > Sincerely, > > Rodd Kleinschmidt > Macintosh System Administrator / Computer Lab Manager > Information & Educational Technology > > >> On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:52 AM, Troy V. Barkmeier via Radmind-users <rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...>> wrote: >> >> We are still using it to manage about 500 of the general use lab machines on campus here. Macs are mostly iMacs (iMac16,2 up through iMac20,1) with about 80 Mac minis (8,1) in instructor podiums, and are all running macOS 11.6.1, dual-booting with Windows 10 21H1. As we've been doing for years, radmind runs on logout and cleans everything up for the next user. Biggest issue was dealing with the SSL library that Big Sur dropped. Other than that, and some ongoing weirdness with the Transcript Editor app, I honestly feel like radmind is working better than ever for me. I just set the relative path to /System/Volumes/Data, since you can't really touch anything else now anyway, and away it goes. Been pushing 11.x macOS updates by pushing full installers to run overnight, since they are the only things that can mess with the System volume at this point. It's been very freeing to have huge swaths of macOS that NO ONE can mess up, in my opinion. I don't worry about not being able to manage that part with radmind any more than I do firmware. >> >> Likely starting my radmind development cycle for Apple Silicon and Monterey in the next couple of weeks; will keep you posted. >> >> TVB >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 6:54 AM <rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...>> wrote: >> Send Radmind-users mailing list submissions to >> rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Radmind-users digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Is anyone still using radmind? (James Reynolds) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 06:19:16 +0000 >> From: James Reynolds <rey...@bi... <mailto:rey...@bi...>> >> To: "rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...>" >> <rad...@li... <mailto:rad...@li...>> >> Subject: [Radmind-users] Is anyone still using radmind? >> Message-ID: >> <BN9...@BN... <mailto:BN9...@BN...>> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Is anyone still using radmind? About a month and a half ago I found a need and I've been trying to set up a radmind server running on docker. I got it working today. The source files are located at https://github.com/Radmind/docker-radmind <https://github.com/Radmind/docker-radmind> and the docker image can be pulled with `docker pull ghcr.io/radmind/docker-radmind:main` <http://ghcr.io/radmind/docker-radmind:main>. >> >> James >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Radmind-users mailing list >> Rad...@li... <mailto:Rad...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Radmind-users Digest, Vol 117, Issue 1 >> ********************************************* >> _______________________________________________ >> Radmind-users mailing list >> Rad...@li... <mailto:Rad...@li...> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users > > _______________________________________________ > Radmind-users mailing list > Rad...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users |
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From: Rodd K. <rkl...@uc...> - 2022-02-07 22:16:29
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Just to add to the tally.
I am using radmind on ~500 Macs running Mojave in our university computer classrooms/labs. But like Tom Johnson, I have to move forward this summer with the OS and am considering falling in line with the rest of our campus (Jamf).
Quick questions for Troy Barkmeier (or anyone that wants to chime in):
- Did settling the relative path to /System/Volumes/Data help simplify your negative.T at all?
- Are you using any kind of MDM with this (e.g. to deploy a Privacy Preferences Policy Control profile)? If so, what solution did you pick?
Sincerely,
Rodd Kleinschmidt
Macintosh System Administrator / Computer Lab Manager
Information & Educational Technology
On Feb 4, 2022, at 7:52 AM, Troy V. Barkmeier via Radmind-users <rad...@li...<mailto:rad...@li...>> wrote:
We are still using it to manage about 500 of the general use lab machines on campus here. Macs are mostly iMacs (iMac16,2 up through iMac20,1) with about 80 Mac minis (8,1) in instructor podiums, and are all running macOS 11.6.1, dual-booting with Windows 10 21H1. As we've been doing for years, radmind runs on logout and cleans everything up for the next user. Biggest issue was dealing with the SSL library that Big Sur dropped. Other than that, and some ongoing weirdness with the Transcript Editor app, I honestly feel like radmind is working better than ever for me. I just set the relative path to /System/Volumes/Data, since you can't really touch anything else now anyway, and away it goes. Been pushing 11.x macOS updates by pushing full installers to run overnight, since they are the only things that can mess with the System volume at this point. It's been very freeing to have huge swaths of macOS that NO ONE can mess up, in my opinion. I don't worry about not being able to manage that part with radmind any more than I do firmware.
Likely starting my radmind development cycle for Apple Silicon and Monterey in the next couple of weeks; will keep you posted.
TVB
On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 6:54 AM <rad...@li...<mailto:rad...@li...>> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Is anyone still using radmind? (James Reynolds)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 06:19:16 +0000
From: James Reynolds <rey...@bi...<mailto:rey...@bi...>>
To: "rad...@li...<mailto:rad...@li...>"
<rad...@li...<mailto:rad...@li...>>
Subject: [Radmind-users] Is anyone still using radmind?
Message-ID:
<BN9...@BN...<mailto:BN9...@BN...>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Is anyone still using radmind? About a month and a half ago I found a need and I've been trying to set up a radmind server running on docker. I got it working today. The source files are located at https://github.com/Radmind/docker-radmind and the docker image can be pulled with `docker pull ghcr.io/radmind/docker-radmind:main`<http://ghcr.io/radmind/docker-radmind:main>.
James
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From: Scott H. <st...@ma...> - 2022-02-07 18:08:36
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And I have another fix, were Radmind adds a process ID number to the file as it is uploaded to the client. Sometimes that exceeds the systems maximum file length (including directories). I temporarily shorten the file name as a fix. There might be a better way as this could fail with a very short file name on a long directory string. -Scott > On Feb 7, 2022, at 09:19, Richard Conto <rs...@um...> wrote: > > I have a version of radmind where I've abused it (ick), where I've fixed some problems (primarily with very short transcripts), and added some features (such as ignoring UID, GID, timestamps, and mode - so that I could compare transcript files more easily. I've also added buffering so that small transcripts don't consume a file-descriptor. > > Radmind knows nothing of SELinux, App-Armor, or extended attributes in file systems. > > I've built a huge library of "post-apply" scripts - but they're not parameterized into the autoconf tools used to build radmind. > > I've got a small library of tools to use an existing system managed by YUM and generate a (mostly) complete transcript - although the flaws in this are still significant. I've done something similar for Python packages and R modules. > > The "parents" script needs to be fixed to deal with whitespace and special characters in pathnames. I have a partial solution to that - good enough for myself. > > radmind would be a lot more useful for me if it could incorporate some identity management stuff - like symbolic UID/GID information. radmind ought to indicate the type of the checksum used IN the checksum - so that you could produce mixed loadsets (or even mixed transcripts.) > > When I'm more insane than usual, I'd like to have conditional ''k", "'p", and "n". This would likely violate the intent of radmind. > > I don't recall if radmind is IPv6 aware. > > --- Richard Conto > --------------------------------------------- > Working remotely to support the AGC > > Michigan Advanced Genomics Core (MAGC) <https://brcf.medicine.umich.edu/cores/advanced-genomics/> > Biomedical Research Core Facilities > Medical School Administration Office of Research > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 2:54 AM James Reynolds <rey...@bi... <mailto:rey...@bi...>> wrote: > Ha. I just opened a source file in Xcode and the indentation looks like garbage. I’m feeling somewhat vindicated. And now I just tried vi. Sure enough, it looks correct. Sigh………………………………………………………….. > > > > James > > > > On 2/7/22, 12:33 AM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi... <mailto:rey...@bi...>> wrote: > > > > Ok. So I’ve had some time to think about this. And boy do I have a lot to say. I hope someone reads it. > > > > First, I asked about the indentation a whole 16 years ago. > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/ <https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/> > > > I don’t believe my question was understood. I don’t know how to describe my reaction to this now that I know what was wrong. Oh well. > > > > Next. For many years, every time I think of doing anything with the code, I kept debating what to do about the indentation, because I couldn’t read the code. Now that I know that it was a stupid tab setting, I can now read the code. It’s something of a rush and it changes everything for me. Because I can read it, I am now willing to modify the code. > > > > I don’t know if this issue has affected anyone else. Obviously people have known about the 8-space tab thing because a lot of people have contributed code. But some people might not have known about the issue, like me, and also been put off. > > > > Now that I’m willing to modify the code, I am going to take a stand. I’m not going to work with the code with mixed tabs and spaces. I’m going to convert all the files. I favor tabs that are 4 spaces wide. I’ve currently changed 13 of the files and I’ve got a lot left. This change is obviously going to touch every single file. And all forks and branches are going to have tons of conflicts if I do this. It creates a choke point. Maybe it’s a big enough choke point to warrant a whole new repository. > > > > But nobody is maintaining this code anyway. Nobody has submitted pull requests or anything in years. So if anyone cares, please say something. > > > > If I do make this change, that doesn’t mean I’ll start maintaining it. But it means I might. Now that I can read it, I don’t know how this will change my attitude and time commitment to the project. I’m already too busy with other things. And I know Richard Glaser is probably squirming wondering if this means I’m going to quit working on python-jamf and jctl. That’s not my plan. There’s a lot of open source projects that were abandoned and taken over by someone else. I don’t exactly want to become the new radmind person. > > > > Several years ago I said to people on this list that I would merge pull requests. I think I dropped the ball because I didn’t pay attention to the emails people sent immediately after I made the commitment. A big part of the reason is because the first commit I merged caused problems and I didn’t have an environment setup to actually test changes and I kind of stuck my head in a hole after that. And, of course, I couldn’t read the source code… > > > > But I know a lot more now than I did a few years ago. My C isn’t really better. But I know git and GitHub actions. I know Docker. I know Vagrant. All of those will help automate testing and packaging. And in fact, I have already been working on setting up automated testing and packaging. I didn’t even know why because I had no plans to change the source code. I just started doing it because I guess I wanted to use radmind again because I keep seeing variances in my machines that I can’t track and I need to add the ability to ignore timestamps to get to the bottom of it. > > > > So, unless anyone wants to chime in and argue this, I’m going to go ahead and finish converting all of the files to tabs and commit them into a new branch called something like “tabs” and eventually I’ll merge that into master or create a new repository if people want. And if I ever release a new version of radmind, even if the code has barely changed, I’m going to call it 2.0. Why? Because it’s now under totally new management with a totally different focus, roadmap, and priorities and that is enough of a 2.0 for me. I will, of course, leave the copyrights and licenses the way they are. > > > > I know a few things about the old roadmap. I think there was something like unified transcripts, a GUI, and a Windows version. Where’s the garbage can? I’m never going to work on those things and I don’t think anyone else will. They will never happen unless someone coughs up some money to pay someone to code it and I don’t believe that will ever happen either. So we just need to plan on it never happening. > > > > I honestly don’t plan on figuring out the APFS issue. I think someone else has already solved it. I’m willing to test it and merge it, if it isn’t already merged (I have to look). > > > > Regarding Linux, to the best of my knowledge, radmind ignores SELinux settings. To be really useful, radmind probably needs to pay attention to SELinux. I don’t know much about AppArmor. Maybe it’s like SELinux. But more to the point, with containers taking over the server world and immutable operating systems like Fedora CoreOS, are we still going to need tripwires on Linux? I’m sure someone will need it. But again, with my C skills and lack of time, I don’t see how I could ever add SELinux or AppArmor support. > > > > What type of changes am I thinking of? I might change the macOS package identifier from edu.umich.radmind to org.github.radmind. Yeah that’s small. I might write some documentation. I might add the ability to ignore timestamps. I might fix build issues on the popular Linux and BSD variants (i.e. what I can get running in GitHub actions and Vagrant--that doesn’t include RHEL and Solaris, seeing that they aren’t free). I might try to make it easier to install using tools like brew, apt/yum, etc. That’s all I can see me having time for. > > > > And knowing how I do things, I’ll probably quit working on radmind as soon as I send this email. In 6 months to a year I might come back and pick up where I left off. Honestly, it might take me some time to get over the fact that for 16 years I couldn’t read the source code because of a text editor setting. The elation I felt when I figured this out has worn off and now I seem to be getting more and more bitter. Seriously, for 16 years I thought there was some ivory tower school of thought towards indentation that made absolutely no sense. But the only place I saw it revealed was in this project. > > > > You know what, I’m feeling so chaffed by this I just went and looked at GitHub’s source code view. It shows the source code correctly. How does GitHub know that these files have 8 space tabs? Is that a normal thing for C source? I’ve looked at lots of C source files before, including the mach kernel and the Darwin source code, and I’ve never seen this. Is there some editor setting in the project files? Should I be blaming BBEdit? Is this because the original radmind developers used vi or emacs? The only place I’ve seen 8-space tabs is the terminal, and I’ve always thought it was horrible looking and was random. I’m revealing my ignorance. But whatever. > > > > …………………………………... > > > > Anyway. > > > > I haven’t worked that much with a community of developers and git. My day job is system administration, not coding. So I usually edit on master. I know that’s not the right way, and I’ve tried to improve. I’ll try to do it the right way with the radmind project. But I’m sure I’m going to do things wrong. If there are other people out there with more experience in this, I would love some advice. > > > > The old developers had discipline and high standards. I have neither. I don’t want to ruin the project with my inexperience and sloppiness. But like I said earlier, nobody is doing anything with the project. A bad maintainer is better than none. The old developers worked on it for their day job, and I don’t think anyone is ever going to get paid for working on radmind again. And I strongly suspect none of the old developers want to have anything to do with the project ever again and don’t care what happens to it. If any of you are out there reading, please correct me if I’m wrong. If anyone at Umich has any interest in this project at all, I’d love to hear that too. > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/6/22, 7:50 PM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi... <mailto:rey...@bi...>> wrote: > > WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. > > > > > > > > So. I finally figured out the radmind source code. For over a decade I’ve looked at that source code with complete stupor. This last week I even went over the Indian Hill Style Guide trying to figure out how it justified the indentations. I also read a little bit of Linus Torvalds’ Linux style guide to see if maybe something in that could make sense of the radmind source code. And he says tabs should be 8 spaces, something I’ve never heard before. Ok, whatever. > > > > > > > > Well, today I’ve been working on the makefile trying to replace the old packagemaker with pkgbuild and I finally realized the makefile is formatted with tabs that are 8 spaces. Then I wondered if the source code files are the same. So I opened up a file, set the tabs to 8 spaces, and suddenly the source code makes complete sense. I have stayed away from the source code for over a decade because of this… The problem is, the whole thing is mixed spaces and tabs, so if your tabs are set to 4 spaces, then the whole thing looks like garbage. > > > > > > > > Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh. > > > > > > > > James > > _______________________________________________ > Radmind-users mailing list > Rad...@li... <mailto:Rad...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users> > _______________________________________________ > Radmind-users mailing list > Rad...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users |
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From: Richard C. <rs...@um...> - 2022-02-07 14:20:33
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I have a version of radmind where I've abused it (ick), where I've fixed some problems (primarily with very short transcripts), and added some features (such as ignoring UID, GID, timestamps, and mode - so that I could compare transcript files more easily. I've also added buffering so that small transcripts don't consume a file-descriptor. Radmind knows nothing of SELinux, App-Armor, or extended attributes in file systems. I've built a huge library of "post-apply" scripts - but they're not parameterized into the autoconf tools used to build radmind. I've got a small library of tools to use an existing system managed by YUM and generate a (mostly) complete transcript - although the flaws in this are still significant. I've done something similar for Python packages and R modules. The "parents" script needs to be fixed to deal with whitespace and special characters in pathnames. I have a partial solution to that - good enough for myself. radmind would be a lot more useful for me if it could incorporate some identity management stuff - like symbolic UID/GID information. radmind ought to indicate the type of the checksum used IN the checksum - so that you could produce mixed loadsets (or even mixed transcripts.) When I'm more insane than usual, I'd like to have conditional ''k", "'p", and "n". This would likely violate the intent of radmind. I don't recall if radmind is IPv6 aware. --- Richard Conto --------------------------------------------- Working remotely to support the AGC Michigan Advanced Genomics Core (MAGC) <https://brcf.medicine.umich.edu/cores/advanced-genomics/> Biomedical Research Core Facilities Medical School Administration Office of Research On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 2:54 AM James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: > Ha. I just opened a source file in Xcode and the indentation looks like > garbage. I’m feeling somewhat vindicated. And now I just tried vi. Sure > enough, it looks correct. Sigh………………………………………………………….. > > > > James > > > > On 2/7/22, 12:33 AM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi...> wrote: > > > > Ok. So I’ve had some time to think about this. And boy do I have a lot to > say. I hope someone reads it. > > > > First, I asked about the indentation a whole 16 years ago. > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/ > > > > I don’t believe my question was understood. I don’t know how to describe > my reaction to this now that I know what was wrong. Oh well. > > > > Next. For many years, every time I think of doing anything with the code, > I kept debating what to do about the indentation, because I couldn’t read > the code. Now that I know that it was a stupid tab setting, I can now read > the code. It’s something of a rush and it changes everything for me. > Because I can read it, I am now willing to modify the code. > > > > I don’t know if this issue has affected anyone else. Obviously people have > known about the 8-space tab thing because a lot of people have contributed > code. But some people might not have known about the issue, like me, and > also been put off. > > > > Now that I’m willing to modify the code, I am going to take a stand. I’m > not going to work with the code with mixed tabs and spaces. I’m going to > convert all the files. I favor tabs that are 4 spaces wide. I’ve currently > changed 13 of the files and I’ve got a lot left. This change is obviously > going to touch every single file. And all forks and branches are going to > have tons of conflicts if I do this. It creates a choke point. Maybe it’s a > big enough choke point to warrant a whole new repository. > > > > But nobody is maintaining this code anyway. Nobody has submitted pull > requests or anything in years. So if anyone cares, please say something. > > > > If I do make this change, that doesn’t mean I’ll start maintaining it. But > it means I might. Now that I can read it, I don’t know how this will change > my attitude and time commitment to the project. I’m already too busy with > other things. And I know Richard Glaser is probably squirming wondering if > this means I’m going to quit working on python-jamf and jctl. That’s not my > plan. There’s a lot of open source projects that were abandoned and taken > over by someone else. I don’t exactly want to become the new radmind person. > > > > Several years ago I said to people on this list that I would merge pull > requests. I think I dropped the ball because I didn’t pay attention to the > emails people sent immediately after I made the commitment. A big part of > the reason is because the first commit I merged caused problems and I > didn’t have an environment setup to actually test changes and I kind of > stuck my head in a hole after that. And, of course, I couldn’t read the > source code… > > > > But I know a lot more now than I did a few years ago. My C isn’t really > better. But I know git and GitHub actions. I know Docker. I know Vagrant. > All of those will help automate testing and packaging. And in fact, I have > already been working on setting up automated testing and packaging. I > didn’t even know why because I had no plans to change the source code. I > just started doing it because I guess I wanted to use radmind again because > I keep seeing variances in my machines that I can’t track and I need to add > the ability to ignore timestamps to get to the bottom of it. > > > > So, unless anyone wants to chime in and argue this, I’m going to go ahead > and finish converting all of the files to tabs and commit them into a new > branch called something like “tabs” and eventually I’ll merge that into > master or create a new repository if people want. And if I ever release a > new version of radmind, even if the code has barely changed, I’m going to > call it 2.0. Why? Because it’s now under totally new management with a > totally different focus, roadmap, and priorities and that is enough of a > 2.0 for me. I will, of course, leave the copyrights and licenses the way > they are. > > > > I know a few things about the old roadmap. I think there was something > like unified transcripts, a GUI, and a Windows version. Where’s the garbage > can? I’m never going to work on those things and I don’t think anyone else > will. They will never happen unless someone coughs up some money to pay > someone to code it and I don’t believe that will ever happen either. So we > just need to plan on it never happening. > > > > I honestly don’t plan on figuring out the APFS issue. I think someone else > has already solved it. I’m willing to test it and merge it, if it isn’t > already merged (I have to look). > > > > Regarding Linux, to the best of my knowledge, radmind ignores SELinux > settings. To be really useful, radmind probably needs to pay attention to > SELinux. I don’t know much about AppArmor. Maybe it’s like SELinux. But > more to the point, with containers taking over the server world and > immutable operating systems like Fedora CoreOS, are we still going to need > tripwires on Linux? I’m sure someone will need it. But again, with my C > skills and lack of time, I don’t see how I could ever add SELinux or > AppArmor support. > > > > What type of changes am I thinking of? I might change the macOS package > identifier from edu.umich.radmind to org.github.radmind. Yeah that’s small. > I might write some documentation. I might add the ability to ignore > timestamps. I might fix build issues on the popular Linux and BSD variants > (i.e. what I can get running in GitHub actions and Vagrant--that doesn’t > include RHEL and Solaris, seeing that they aren’t free). I might try to > make it easier to install using tools like brew, apt/yum, etc. That’s all I > can see me having time for. > > > > And knowing how I do things, I’ll probably quit working on radmind as soon > as I send this email. In 6 months to a year I might come back and pick up > where I left off. Honestly, it might take me some time to get over the fact > that for 16 years I couldn’t read the source code because of a text editor > setting. The elation I felt when I figured this out has worn off and now I > seem to be getting more and more bitter. Seriously, for 16 years I thought > there was some ivory tower school of thought towards indentation that made > absolutely no sense. But the only place I saw it revealed was in this > project. > > > > You know what, I’m feeling so chaffed by this I just went and looked at > GitHub’s source code view. It shows the source code correctly. How does > GitHub know that these files have 8 space tabs? Is that a normal thing for > C source? I’ve looked at lots of C source files before, including the mach > kernel and the Darwin source code, and I’ve never seen this. Is there some > editor setting in the project files? Should I be blaming BBEdit? Is this > because the original radmind developers used vi or emacs? The only place > I’ve seen 8-space tabs is the terminal, and I’ve always thought it was > horrible looking and was random. I’m revealing my ignorance. But whatever. > > > > …………………………………... > > > > Anyway. > > > > I haven’t worked that much with a community of developers and git. My day > job is system administration, not coding. So I usually edit on master. I > know that’s not the right way, and I’ve tried to improve. I’ll try to do it > the right way with the radmind project. But I’m sure I’m going to do things > wrong. If there are other people out there with more experience in this, I > would love some advice. > > > > The old developers had discipline and high standards. I have neither. I > don’t want to ruin the project with my inexperience and sloppiness. But > like I said earlier, nobody is doing anything with the project. A bad > maintainer is better than none. The old developers worked on it for their > day job, and I don’t think anyone is ever going to get paid for working on > radmind again. And I strongly suspect none of the old developers want to > have anything to do with the project ever again and don’t care what happens > to it. If any of you are out there reading, please correct me if I’m wrong. > If anyone at Umich has any interest in this project at all, I’d love to > hear that too. > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/6/22, 7:50 PM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi...> wrote: > > WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. > > > > > > > > So. I finally figured out the radmind source code. For over a decade I’ve > looked at that source code with complete stupor. This last week I even went > over the Indian Hill Style Guide trying to figure out how it justified the > indentations. I also read a little bit of Linus Torvalds’ Linux style guide > to see if maybe something in that could make sense of the radmind source > code. And he says tabs should be 8 spaces, something I’ve never heard > before. Ok, whatever. > > > > > > > > Well, today I’ve been working on the makefile trying to replace the old > packagemaker with pkgbuild and I finally realized the makefile is formatted > with tabs that are 8 spaces. Then I wondered if the source code files are > the same. So I opened up a file, set the tabs to 8 spaces, and suddenly the > source code makes complete sense. I have stayed away from the source code > for over a decade because of this… The problem is, the whole thing is mixed > spaces and tabs, so if your tabs are set to 4 spaces, then the whole thing > looks like garbage. > > > > > > > > Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh. > > > > > > > > James > _______________________________________________ > Radmind-users mailing list > Rad...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/radmind-users > |
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From: Scott H. <st...@ma...> - 2022-02-07 14:19:58
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James, Wow! Thanks for this writeup and trying to regularize things. I have a couple of pull requests that i will try to submit. I think I will have to tease out my source code changes into specific requests. One is the timestamp fix that I regularly use in creating new transcripts. I figure uploading a whole new file just because of a date change is not useful. The other modification that makes my life much easier is using \<space> instead of \b in the transcript file. This has worked well (except with the GUI components) for a few years now and makes cutting and pasting a file from the transcript into the terminal so much easier for debugging. I have used emacs on this and not had a weird formatting problem in years. However, changing everything to tabs is a good first step in regularizing the code. I would suggest the linux (MacOS) “expand” command to convert all sets of 8 leading spaces to a tab. -Scott > On Feb 7, 2022, at 02:33, James Reynolds <rey...@bi...> wrote: > > Ok. So I’ve had some time to think about this. And boy do I have a lot to say. I hope someone reads it. > > First, I asked about the indentation a whole 16 years ago. > > https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/ <https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/> > > I don’t believe my question was understood. I don’t know how to describe my reaction to this now that I know what was wrong. Oh well. > |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-07 07:53:50
|
Ha. I just opened a source file in Xcode and the indentation looks like garbage. I’m feeling somewhat vindicated. And now I just tried vi. Sure enough, it looks correct. Sigh………………………………………………………….. James On 2/7/22, 12:33 AM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi...> wrote: Ok. So I’ve had some time to think about this. And boy do I have a lot to say. I hope someone reads it. First, I asked about the indentation a whole 16 years ago. https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/ I don’t believe my question was understood. I don’t know how to describe my reaction to this now that I know what was wrong. Oh well. Next. For many years, every time I think of doing anything with the code, I kept debating what to do about the indentation, because I couldn’t read the code. Now that I know that it was a stupid tab setting, I can now read the code. It’s something of a rush and it changes everything for me. Because I can read it, I am now willing to modify the code. I don’t know if this issue has affected anyone else. Obviously people have known about the 8-space tab thing because a lot of people have contributed code. But some people might not have known about the issue, like me, and also been put off. Now that I’m willing to modify the code, I am going to take a stand. I’m not going to work with the code with mixed tabs and spaces. I’m going to convert all the files. I favor tabs that are 4 spaces wide. I’ve currently changed 13 of the files and I’ve got a lot left. This change is obviously going to touch every single file. And all forks and branches are going to have tons of conflicts if I do this. It creates a choke point. Maybe it’s a big enough choke point to warrant a whole new repository. But nobody is maintaining this code anyway. Nobody has submitted pull requests or anything in years. So if anyone cares, please say something. If I do make this change, that doesn’t mean I’ll start maintaining it. But it means I might. Now that I can read it, I don’t know how this will change my attitude and time commitment to the project. I’m already too busy with other things. And I know Richard Glaser is probably squirming wondering if this means I’m going to quit working on python-jamf and jctl. That’s not my plan. There’s a lot of open source projects that were abandoned and taken over by someone else. I don’t exactly want to become the new radmind person. Several years ago I said to people on this list that I would merge pull requests. I think I dropped the ball because I didn’t pay attention to the emails people sent immediately after I made the commitment. A big part of the reason is because the first commit I merged caused problems and I didn’t have an environment setup to actually test changes and I kind of stuck my head in a hole after that. And, of course, I couldn’t read the source code… But I know a lot more now than I did a few years ago. My C isn’t really better. But I know git and GitHub actions. I know Docker. I know Vagrant. All of those will help automate testing and packaging. And in fact, I have already been working on setting up automated testing and packaging. I didn’t even know why because I had no plans to change the source code. I just started doing it because I guess I wanted to use radmind again because I keep seeing variances in my machines that I can’t track and I need to add the ability to ignore timestamps to get to the bottom of it. So, unless anyone wants to chime in and argue this, I’m going to go ahead and finish converting all of the files to tabs and commit them into a new branch called something like “tabs” and eventually I’ll merge that into master or create a new repository if people want. And if I ever release a new version of radmind, even if the code has barely changed, I’m going to call it 2.0. Why? Because it’s now under totally new management with a totally different focus, roadmap, and priorities and that is enough of a 2.0 for me. I will, of course, leave the copyrights and licenses the way they are. I know a few things about the old roadmap. I think there was something like unified transcripts, a GUI, and a Windows version. Where’s the garbage can? I’m never going to work on those things and I don’t think anyone else will. They will never happen unless someone coughs up some money to pay someone to code it and I don’t believe that will ever happen either. So we just need to plan on it never happening. I honestly don’t plan on figuring out the APFS issue. I think someone else has already solved it. I’m willing to test it and merge it, if it isn’t already merged (I have to look). Regarding Linux, to the best of my knowledge, radmind ignores SELinux settings. To be really useful, radmind probably needs to pay attention to SELinux. I don’t know much about AppArmor. Maybe it’s like SELinux. But more to the point, with containers taking over the server world and immutable operating systems like Fedora CoreOS, are we still going to need tripwires on Linux? I’m sure someone will need it. But again, with my C skills and lack of time, I don’t see how I could ever add SELinux or AppArmor support. What type of changes am I thinking of? I might change the macOS package identifier from edu.umich.radmind to org.github.radmind. Yeah that’s small. I might write some documentation. I might add the ability to ignore timestamps. I might fix build issues on the popular Linux and BSD variants (i.e. what I can get running in GitHub actions and Vagrant--that doesn’t include RHEL and Solaris, seeing that they aren’t free). I might try to make it easier to install using tools like brew, apt/yum, etc. That’s all I can see me having time for. And knowing how I do things, I’ll probably quit working on radmind as soon as I send this email. In 6 months to a year I might come back and pick up where I left off. Honestly, it might take me some time to get over the fact that for 16 years I couldn’t read the source code because of a text editor setting. The elation I felt when I figured this out has worn off and now I seem to be getting more and more bitter. Seriously, for 16 years I thought there was some ivory tower school of thought towards indentation that made absolutely no sense. But the only place I saw it revealed was in this project. You know what, I’m feeling so chaffed by this I just went and looked at GitHub’s source code view. It shows the source code correctly. How does GitHub know that these files have 8 space tabs? Is that a normal thing for C source? I’ve looked at lots of C source files before, including the mach kernel and the Darwin source code, and I’ve never seen this. Is there some editor setting in the project files? Should I be blaming BBEdit? Is this because the original radmind developers used vi or emacs? The only place I’ve seen 8-space tabs is the terminal, and I’ve always thought it was horrible looking and was random. I’m revealing my ignorance. But whatever. …………………………………... Anyway. I haven’t worked that much with a community of developers and git. My day job is system administration, not coding. So I usually edit on master. I know that’s not the right way, and I’ve tried to improve. I’ll try to do it the right way with the radmind project. But I’m sure I’m going to do things wrong. If there are other people out there with more experience in this, I would love some advice. The old developers had discipline and high standards. I have neither. I don’t want to ruin the project with my inexperience and sloppiness. But like I said earlier, nobody is doing anything with the project. A bad maintainer is better than none. The old developers worked on it for their day job, and I don’t think anyone is ever going to get paid for working on radmind again. And I strongly suspect none of the old developers want to have anything to do with the project ever again and don’t care what happens to it. If any of you are out there reading, please correct me if I’m wrong. If anyone at Umich has any interest in this project at all, I’d love to hear that too. James On 2/6/22, 7:50 PM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi...<mailto:rey...@bi...>> wrote: WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. So. I finally figured out the radmind source code. For over a decade I’ve looked at that source code with complete stupor. This last week I even went over the Indian Hill Style Guide trying to figure out how it justified the indentations. I also read a little bit of Linus Torvalds’ Linux style guide to see if maybe something in that could make sense of the radmind source code. And he says tabs should be 8 spaces, something I’ve never heard before. Ok, whatever. Well, today I’ve been working on the makefile trying to replace the old packagemaker with pkgbuild and I finally realized the makefile is formatted with tabs that are 8 spaces. Then I wondered if the source code files are the same. So I opened up a file, set the tabs to 8 spaces, and suddenly the source code makes complete sense. I have stayed away from the source code for over a decade because of this… The problem is, the whole thing is mixed spaces and tabs, so if your tabs are set to 4 spaces, then the whole thing looks like garbage. Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh. James |
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From: James R. <rey...@bi...> - 2022-02-07 07:33:27
|
Ok. So I’ve had some time to think about this. And boy do I have a lot to say. I hope someone reads it. First, I asked about the indentation a whole 16 years ago. https://sourceforge.net/p/radmind/mailman/message/1105453/ I don’t believe my question was understood. I don’t know how to describe my reaction to this now that I know what was wrong. Oh well. Next. For many years, every time I think of doing anything with the code, I kept debating what to do about the indentation, because I couldn’t read the code. Now that I know that it was a stupid tab setting, I can now read the code. It’s something of a rush and it changes everything for me. Because I can read it, I am now willing to modify the code. I don’t know if this issue has affected anyone else. Obviously people have known about the 8-space tab thing because a lot of people have contributed code. But some people might not have known about the issue, like me, and also been put off. Now that I’m willing to modify the code, I am going to take a stand. I’m not going to work with the code with mixed tabs and spaces. I’m going to convert all the files. I favor tabs that are 4 spaces wide. I’ve currently changed 13 of the files and I’ve got a lot left. This change is obviously going to touch every single file. And all forks and branches are going to have tons of conflicts if I do this. It creates a choke point. Maybe it’s a big enough choke point to warrant a whole new repository. But nobody is maintaining this code anyway. Nobody has submitted pull requests or anything in years. So if anyone cares, please say something. If I do make this change, that doesn’t mean I’ll start maintaining it. But it means I might. Now that I can read it, I don’t know how this will change my attitude and time commitment to the project. I’m already too busy with other things. And I know Richard Glaser is probably squirming wondering if this means I’m going to quit working on python-jamf and jctl. That’s not my plan. There’s a lot of open source projects that were abandoned and taken over by someone else. I don’t exactly want to become the new radmind person. Several years ago I said to people on this list that I would merge pull requests. I think I dropped the ball because I didn’t pay attention to the emails people sent immediately after I made the commitment. A big part of the reason is because the first commit I merged caused problems and I didn’t have an environment setup to actually test changes and I kind of stuck my head in a hole after that. And, of course, I couldn’t read the source code… But I know a lot more now than I did a few years ago. My C isn’t really better. But I know git and GitHub actions. I know Docker. I know Vagrant. All of those will help automate testing and packaging. And in fact, I have already been working on setting up automated testing and packaging. I didn’t even know why because I had no plans to change the source code. I just started doing it because I guess I wanted to use radmind again because I keep seeing variances in my machines that I can’t track and I need to add the ability to ignore timestamps to get to the bottom of it. So, unless anyone wants to chime in and argue this, I’m going to go ahead and finish converting all of the files to tabs and commit them into a new branch called something like “tabs” and eventually I’ll merge that into master or create a new repository if people want. And if I ever release a new version of radmind, even if the code has barely changed, I’m going to call it 2.0. Why? Because it’s now under totally new management with a totally different focus, roadmap, and priorities and that is enough of a 2.0 for me. I will, of course, leave the copyrights and licenses the way they are. I know a few things about the old roadmap. I think there was something like unified transcripts, a GUI, and a Windows version. Where’s the garbage can? I’m never going to work on those things and I don’t think anyone else will. They will never happen unless someone coughs up some money to pay someone to code it and I don’t believe that will ever happen either. So we just need to plan on it never happening. I honestly don’t plan on figuring out the APFS issue. I think someone else has already solved it. I’m willing to test it and merge it, if it isn’t already merged (I have to look). Regarding Linux, to the best of my knowledge, radmind ignores SELinux settings. To be really useful, radmind probably needs to pay attention to SELinux. I don’t know much about AppArmor. Maybe it’s like SELinux. But more to the point, with containers taking over the server world and immutable operating systems like Fedora CoreOS, are we still going to need tripwires on Linux? I’m sure someone will need it. But again, with my C skills and lack of time, I don’t see how I could ever add SELinux or AppArmor support. What type of changes am I thinking of? I might change the macOS package identifier from edu.umich.radmind to org.github.radmind. Yeah that’s small. I might write some documentation. I might add the ability to ignore timestamps. I might fix build issues on the popular Linux and BSD variants (i.e. what I can get running in GitHub actions and Vagrant--that doesn’t include RHEL and Solaris, seeing that they aren’t free). I might try to make it easier to install using tools like brew, apt/yum, etc. That’s all I can see me having time for. And knowing how I do things, I’ll probably quit working on radmind as soon as I send this email. In 6 months to a year I might come back and pick up where I left off. Honestly, it might take me some time to get over the fact that for 16 years I couldn’t read the source code because of a text editor setting. The elation I felt when I figured this out has worn off and now I seem to be getting more and more bitter. Seriously, for 16 years I thought there was some ivory tower school of thought towards indentation that made absolutely no sense. But the only place I saw it revealed was in this project. You know what, I’m feeling so chaffed by this I just went and looked at GitHub’s source code view. It shows the source code correctly. How does GitHub know that these files have 8 space tabs? Is that a normal thing for C source? I’ve looked at lots of C source files before, including the mach kernel and the Darwin source code, and I’ve never seen this. Is there some editor setting in the project files? Should I be blaming BBEdit? Is this because the original radmind developers used vi or emacs? The only place I’ve seen 8-space tabs is the terminal, and I’ve always thought it was horrible looking and was random. I’m revealing my ignorance. But whatever. …………………………………... Anyway. I haven’t worked that much with a community of developers and git. My day job is system administration, not coding. So I usually edit on master. I know that’s not the right way, and I’ve tried to improve. I’ll try to do it the right way with the radmind project. But I’m sure I’m going to do things wrong. If there are other people out there with more experience in this, I would love some advice. The old developers had discipline and high standards. I have neither. I don’t want to ruin the project with my inexperience and sloppiness. But like I said earlier, nobody is doing anything with the project. A bad maintainer is better than none. The old developers worked on it for their day job, and I don’t think anyone is ever going to get paid for working on radmind again. And I strongly suspect none of the old developers want to have anything to do with the project ever again and don’t care what happens to it. If any of you are out there reading, please correct me if I’m wrong. If anyone at Umich has any interest in this project at all, I’d love to hear that too. James On 2/6/22, 7:50 PM, "James Reynolds" <rey...@bi...> wrote: WARNING: Stop. Think. Read. This is an external email. So. I finally figured out the radmind source code. For over a decade I’ve looked at that source code with complete stupor. This last week I even went over the Indian Hill Style Guide trying to figure out how it justified the indentations. I also read a little bit of Linus Torvalds’ Linux style guide to see if maybe something in that could make sense of the radmind source code. And he says tabs should be 8 spaces, something I’ve never heard before. Ok, whatever. Well, today I’ve been working on the makefile trying to replace the old packagemaker with pkgbuild and I finally realized the makefile is formatted with tabs that are 8 spaces. Then I wondered if the source code files are the same. So I opened up a file, set the tabs to 8 spaces, and suddenly the source code makes complete sense. I have stayed away from the source code for over a decade because of this… The problem is, the whole thing is mixed spaces and tabs, so if your tabs are set to 4 spaces, then the whole thing looks like garbage. Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh. James |
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