Re: [Queue-developers] new project admin for GQ? [was: Re: GNU Queue]

[wernerkrebs <wer...@ya...>]

Hi, thanks for your comments, but please direct
replies to the list
(que...@li...) so there can
be a community discussion. 

(Sending replies to the list will also save me from
any interpretations of the net-etiquette of responding
publicly to someone's private GQ comments. ;-) Years
ago replies to queue-developers automatically went to
the list, but I think SF changed policy.)

As you know, I resigned as project admin some time
ago, so I don't really have any more say than anyone
else does. (As the official admin, Mike has the most
say right now, actually, so he would be the only
person to write to directly with GQ suggestions,
really.)

The Free Software way is that any big decision should
be made by the community.

Thanks.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Werner G. Krebs, Ph.D.,
Technical Specialist           

Personal website: http://www.wernergkrebs.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
     

--- "John McKowen Taylor Jr." <jo...@ca...>
wrote:

> Hi Werner,
> 
> Mike's talk but no action is what led me to
> lose interest in Queue, btw.
> 
> best regards,
> 
> -- johnT
> John McKowen Taylor, Jr.
> Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
> 200 Regency Forest Dr.
> Cary, NC 27511 USA
> +1 919 481 6835
> 
> wernerkrebs wrote:
> 
> >Hmmmm, what you say sounds good, but I think this
> >discussion should be moved to queue-developers, as
> I
> >think it might be taking place in a vacuum.
> >
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
> >Werner G. Krebs, Ph.D.,
> >Technical Specialist           
> > 
> >Personal website: http://www.wernergkrebs.com
> >----
> >
> >--- Koni <mh...@co...> wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Hi Werner,
> >>
> >>Thanks for your response. I guess I should clarify
> >>for Mike here that I
> >>don't mean to sound like I want to take things
> over.
> >>What I do want to
> >>do is make it work like it must have at one time,
> as
> >>outlined in my
> >>previous email. This is all primarily motived by
> >>needs I have right now,
> >>as well as another group here on campus that may
> be
> >>interested after
> >>those goals are accomplished.
> >>
> >>I am undecided as to whether its worth the trouble
> >>for my own needs here
> >>given that there are other options out there. I
> must
> >>say I just really
> >>like what I've read from the online docs for GQ,
> and
> >>I don't really like
> >>what I read for condor and other options I've
> >>encountered so far. What
> >>would tip the balance for me is if my efforts to
> do
> >>this could feed back
> >>to the well known project named "GNU queue" as
> >>opposed to totally
> >>unknown and probably never to be discovered GQ
> >>derivative under a
> >>different name, or something that is just used
> >>locally by myself and my
> >>collaborators but not publically released.
> >>
> >>That I guess depends on whether there is a
> >>perception that there are a
> >>lot of people like me out there using small but
> >>dedicated linux-based
> >>clusters, and whether or not what I'm proposing is
> >>compatible with
> >>existing plans. I don't mean to barge in, just
> >>trying to figure out
> >>whether or not I should keep trying to make GQ
> work
> >>here or not. What I
> >>would do would probably totally break any existing
> >>attempts at
> >>checkpoint support as I don't think its worth the
> >>trouble to do this.
> >>Perhaps it could be attempted again on a new code
> >>base using what was
> >>learned from before.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Koni
> >>
> >>On Fri, 2005-04-22 at 13:23 -0700, wernerkrebs
> >>wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Hi Koni,
> >>>
> >>>Nice to hear that you're interested in GQ!
> >>>
> >>>Yes, I formally signed off on the project some
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>time
> >>    
> >>
> >>>ago as a result of working for the University of
> >>>California, whose polices on IP created by
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>employees
> >>    
> >>
> >>>is famous for being less than GPL-friendly. (And
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>now
> >>    
> >>
> >>>I've changed jobs again.)
> >>>
> >>>Mike is the current project admin.
> >>>
> >>>Last I heard --- which was some time ago --- he
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>was
> >>    
> >>
> >>>still very interested, and doing all sorts of
> cool
> >>>stuff in the CVS tree. 
> >>>
> >>>(I think he was doing most of the work in the
> >>>queue-development branch, which should have the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>latest
> >>    
> >>
> >>>versions. One problem with SourceForge is that it
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>is
> >>    
> >>
> >>>impossible to rename a CVS branch, so if you
> start
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>to
> >>    
> >>
> >>>deposit stuff in a branch whose name is
> >>>less-than-ideal, it tends to stay there. You can
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>ask
> >>    
> >>
> >>>the SourceForge admins theoretically, although
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>tend
> >>    
> >>
> >>>not to process those type of requests.)
> >>>
> >>>I think standard Open Source is etiquette is to
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>first
> >>    
> >>
> >>>write the authors privately (which you've now
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>done),
> >>    
> >>
> >>>then wait some reasonable period of time for a
> >>>response. If there's no response, then you can
> ask
> >>>publicaly, in, say, queue-developers. If there's
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>still
> >>    
> >>
> >>>no response after, say, 30 days, then it's yours.
> >>>
> >>>However, please be patient with Mike. I know he
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>has a
> >>    
> >>
> >>>full-time job (jobs?) as well as growing family.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>So,
> >>    
> >>
> >>>give him at least a week before posting the
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>question
> >>    
> >>
> >>>publicaly, and don't be offended if he doesn't
> get
> >>>back to you right away. 
> >>>
> >>>Mike will probably write back in a week or so
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>saying
> >>    
> >>
> >>>he's still doing work on GQ, but would really
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>welcome
> >>    
> >>
> >>>your help on GQ as a developer.
> >>>
> >>>However, if Mike is agreeable to your taking over
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>the
> >>    
> >>
> >>>project, or doesn't get back to you after you've
> >>>posted publically for a month or so, then you can
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>just
> >>    
> >>
> >>>write RMS (with a CC to me), and it's yours.
> >>>
> >>>You could probably get some developer admins
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>(e.g.,
> >>    
> >>
> >>>write access to the CVS tree) faster than that.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Ask
> >>    
> >>
> >>>Mike first, though. If he's agreeable, or if we
> >>>haven't heard back from him in a week or two, I
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>can
> >>    
> >>
> >>>probably set you up with some write access.
> >>>
> >>>BTW, It's "Werner" to everyone except
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>telemarketers
> >>    
> >>
> >>>and such ilk, who are required to use "Dr.
> Krebs."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >
> >>>Werner G. Krebs, Ph.D.,
> >>>Technical Specialist           
> >>>
> >>>Personal website: http://www.wernergkrebs.com
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >
> >>>  
> >>>--- Koni <mh...@co...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>Hello Mr. Castle and Mr. Krebs,
> >>>>
> >>>>If that should be Dr. for either of you, my
> >>>>apologies. My name is Koni,
> >>>>alias cryptopup on sourceforge. I am writing to
> >>>>inquire about what
> >>>>either of you are planning to do with GNU Queue.
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>I
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>know Mr. Krebs has
> >>>>formally signed off from the project, but I am
> >>>>sending this your way
> >>>>anyway since you are still listed as project
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>admin
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>on sourceforge.
> >>>>
> >>>>I encountered GNU queue through a google search
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>and
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>was immediately
> >>>>seduced by the documentation I found at
> >>>>http://www.gnuqueue.org/queue_man/queue.html
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>which
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>comes up first at
> >>>>google. By the way, this is way better than
> >>>>sourceforge, don't take it
> >>>>offline, point sourceforge back to there.
> >>>>Sourceforge is so busy with
> >>>>adds and irrelevent links. 
> >>>>
> >>>>Anyway, files as given for release at source
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>forge,
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>or the queue-stable
> >>>>cvs checkout do not compile on modern Linux
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>systems
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>(specifically fedora
> >>>>or RHEL here) and from the postings there it
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>looks
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>like this has been
> >>>>the case for perhaps up to 4 years.
> >>>>
> >>>>I have succeeded in correcting both compile and
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>some
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>runtime bugs and
> >>>>posted a patch, FWIW, to sourceforge in the
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>patches
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>section. Check that
> >>>>out to gauqe my abilities. I apologize for the
> >>>>reformatting changes in
> >>>>the diff, using -b didn't make very much
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>difference
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>from cvs diff. 
> >>>>
> >>>>There are still serious problems though which I
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>am
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>trying to work
> >>>>through. I want a system that can be used by
> >>>>non-programmers as easily
> >>>>(?) as it is to use simple job control of a UNIX
> >>>>shell. Nothing too
> >>>>fancy, just take a job, execute it when and
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>where
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>there are resources,
> >>>>and that's it. Don't care about accounting,
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>process
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>migration, or
> >>>>anything else. I actually found queue by
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>searching
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>for rsh replacement. 
> >>>>
> >>>>>From working through the code to track the
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>bugs, it
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>seems clear to me
> >>>>that a substantial overhaul/rewrite is badly
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>needed.
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>What I would like
> >>>>to know from either of you is the following:
> >>>>
> >>>>1 - Is there an active known user base out there
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>for
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>this, or is GNU
> >>>>Queue gone defunct by lack of user interest
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>and/or
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>development? <another
> >>>>story> I know how this goes. If you hit my
> >>>>sourceforge account you'll
> >>>>find SLAN, a product which works (but not the
> >>>>sourceforge copy) and I'm
> >>>>using right now actually, but I can't be
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>bothered
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>maintain because there
> >>>>is no interest now that IPSec is built-in to
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>modern
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>operating systems
> >>>>and you can buy an IPSec VPN server at Staples
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>for
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>$60. </another
> >>>>story> 
> >>>>
> >>>>2 - If it worked as documented, is there still a
> >>>>niche market for it?
> >>>>Ie, has sun GRID, condor, openmosix, and
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>whatever
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>else covering the
> >>>>range of interest out there?
> >>>>
> >>>>3 - Do either of you want to do anything else
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>with
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>this, and/or can I do
> >>>>my own thing?
> >>>>
> >>>>I am thinking about rewriting gnu queue to root
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>out
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>the bugs, simplify
> >>>>the code, clean it up, and add a few features
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>that
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>users in my lab here
> >>>>will probably need. 
> >>>>
> >>>>If there are (active?) solid development plans
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>and
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>things are just
> >>>>happening beneath the radar, then I'll fork off
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>and
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>do my own thing if I
> >>>>decide its worth the effort for just the local
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>group
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>here. Otherwise,
> >>>>based on the empirical evidence at sourceforge,
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>it
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>seems both of you are
> >>>>more or less done with this project. I apologize
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>if
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>I'm being
> >>>>presumptuous in that conclusion.
> >>>>
> >>>>It may be worth mentioning that I do not plan to
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>do
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>anything with
> >>>>checkpoint support, and probably never will.
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>Condor
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>addresses this need
> >>>>in the case of non-dedicated systems. For small
> >>>>dedicated cluster
> >>>>systems, which is my perception of the proper
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>market
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>for GNU queue,
> >>>>checkpoint is something that is either not
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>necessary
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>or something that
> >>>>is better handled at the application level in
> >>>>whatever special cases. It
> >>>>seems safe to me to presume that those special
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>cases
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>are custom
> >>>>development apps anyway. I think its a
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>complexity
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>nightmare the code
> >>>>base in present form (as per cvs queue-stable)
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>can
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>not sustain. I have
> >>>>not looked at the development branch. 
> >>>>
> >>>>Thus, if I put serious effort into this, my
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>primary
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>goal will be to
> >>>>clean up the code and try to create a stable
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>system
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>suitable for any
> >>>>current linux small cluster system and add tools
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>to
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>allow users to see
> >>>>the queue list, remove or kill jobs. 
> >>>>
> >>>>This email is way longer than I thought it would
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>be.
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>Sorry 'bout that.
> >>>>brevity is not my skill. :)
> >>>>
> >>>>Cheers
> >>>>Koni
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>-- 
> >>>>mh...@co...
> >>>>Koni (Mark Wright)
> >>>>233 Biotechnology - Cornell University
> >>>>Graduate Student - Genomics / Plant Cell
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>Molecular
> >>    
> >>
> >>>>Biology
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
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> 
> 
>