Re: [Qucs-help] ideal OP model
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From: Felix Maier <felix.maier@gm...> - 2012-01-11 16:45:21
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Hello Holger, there is no file attached? I'm not sure, but it's possible that attachments are forbidden on this list. kind regards Felix 2012/1/5, Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@...>: > Hello, > I run QUCS 0.0.15 on Win XP SP3 and I am continuously having issues with the > OP model. The issue is a little fuzzy: For my mixed signal simulations I > need something like an ideal unity gain amplifier with output voltage > limiter. I found the Amp (discrete components) as well as the inverter > (digital components) not useful. > So I tried the ideal operational amplifier (OP). > First it looked great but then the simulation always hangs (or simulates > extremely long) as soon as the schematic gets more complex and I limit the > Umax parameter of OP1. > You can try the attached model and change Umax to 1V and it will hang. > Strangely, if you delete all other non-relevant components, it works again. > I find QUCS such a great tool, but this drives me cracy! Thanks for your > help - Holger > > ________________________________ > Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10 > 82256 F?rstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany > Tel. +49 8141 403-0 > Amtsgericht / District Court M?nchen - HRB 48918 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer / Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun, > Verena Leser (Stellv. / Deputy) > |
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From: Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@Schleifring.de> - 2012-01-05 15:51:17
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Hello, I run QUCS 0.0.15 on Win XP SP3 and I am continuously having issues with the OP model. The issue is a little fuzzy: For my mixed signal simulations I need something like an ideal unity gain amplifier with output voltage limiter. I found the Amp (discrete components) as well as the inverter (digital components) not useful. So I tried the ideal operational amplifier (OP). First it looked great but then the simulation always hangs (or simulates extremely long) as soon as the schematic gets more complex and I limit the Umax parameter of OP1. You can try the attached model and change Umax to 1V and it will hang. Strangely, if you delete all other non-relevant components, it works again. I find QUCS such a great tool, but this drives me cracy! Thanks for your help - Holger ________________________________ Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10 82256 F?rstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany Tel. +49 8141 403-0 Amtsgericht / District Court M?nchen - HRB 48918 Gesch?ftsf?hrer / Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun, Verena Leser (Stellv. / Deputy) |
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From: Felix Maier <felix.maier@gm...> - 2012-01-11 16:45:21
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Hello Holger, there is no file attached? I'm not sure, but it's possible that attachments are forbidden on this list. kind regards Felix 2012/1/5, Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@...>: > Hello, > I run QUCS 0.0.15 on Win XP SP3 and I am continuously having issues with the > OP model. The issue is a little fuzzy: For my mixed signal simulations I > need something like an ideal unity gain amplifier with output voltage > limiter. I found the Amp (discrete components) as well as the inverter > (digital components) not useful. > So I tried the ideal operational amplifier (OP). > First it looked great but then the simulation always hangs (or simulates > extremely long) as soon as the schematic gets more complex and I limit the > Umax parameter of OP1. > You can try the attached model and change Umax to 1V and it will hang. > Strangely, if you delete all other non-relevant components, it works again. > I find QUCS such a great tool, but this drives me cracy! Thanks for your > help - Holger > > ________________________________ > Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10 > 82256 F?rstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany > Tel. +49 8141 403-0 > Amtsgericht / District Court M?nchen - HRB 48918 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer / Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun, > Verena Leser (Stellv. / Deputy) > |
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From: Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@Schleifring.de> - 2012-01-11 16:58:37
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Hi Felix,
Ok, here is the listing.
Thanks already - Holger
<Qucs Schematic 0.0.15>
<Properties>
<View=0,-269,1436,861,1,0,0>
<Grid=10,10,1>
<DataSet=DigitalTransientSimulation.dat>
<DataDisplay=DigitalTransientSimulation.dpl>
<OpenDisplay=1>
<showFrame=0>
<FrameText0=Titel>
<FrameText1=Gezeichnet von:>
<FrameText2=Datum:>
<FrameText3=Revision:>
</Properties>
<Symbol>
</Symbol>
<Components>
<GND * 1 250 600 0 0 0 0>
<R R1 1 770 550 15 -26 0 1 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0 "european" 0>
<GND * 1 770 580 0 0 0 0>
<Buf Y2 1 710 490 -26 27 0 0 "1 V" 0 "0" 0 "10" 0 "old" 0>
<R R2 1 490 490 -26 -59 0 2 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0 "european" 0>
<C C1 1 560 540 17 -26 0 1 "1 pF" 1 "" 0 "neutral" 0>
<GND * 1 560 570 0 0 0 0>
<Vrect V1 1 250 570 18 -26 0 1 "1.5V" 1 "0.8 ns" 1 "0.5 ns" 1 "500 ps" 1 "50 ps" 0 "100 ps" 1>
<Buf Y1 1 400 490 -26 27 0 0 "1.5 V" 1 "0" 0 "20" 0 "old" 0>
<GND * 1 450 330 0 0 0 0>
<R R3 1 410 240 -26 -59 1 0 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0 "european" 0>
<Diode D1 1 450 300 15 -26 0 1 "1e-15 A" 1 "1" 0 "10 fF" 0 "0.5" 0 "0.1 V" 1 "0.5" 0 "0.0 fF" 0 "0.0" 0 "2.0" 0 "0.0 Ohm" 0 "0.0 ps" 0 "0" 0 "0.0" 0 "1.0" 0 "1.0" 0 "0" 0 "1 mA" 0 "26.85" 0 "3.0" 0 "1.11" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0 "1.0" 0 "normal" 0>
<R R4 1 420 60 15 -26 0 1 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0 "european" 0>
<GND * 1 420 90 0 0 0 0>
<Amp X1 1 320 240 -26 27 0 0 "1" 1 "50 Ohm" 1 "1 Ohm" 1 "0 dB" 0>
<.TR TR1 1 650 250 0 51 0 0 "lin" 1 "0" 1 "5ns" 1 "1001" 0 "Trapezoidal" 0 "2" 0 "1 ns" 0 "1e-16" 0 "150" 0 "0.001" 0 "1 pA" 0 "1 uV" 0 "26.85" 0 "1e-3" 0 "1e-6" 0 "1" 0 "CroutLU" 0 "no" 0 "yes" 0 "0" 0>
<OpAmp OP1 1 350 0 -26 42 0 0 "1e6" 1 "15 V" 1>
</Components>
<Wires>
<250 490 370 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
<250 490 250 540 "" 0 0 0 "">
<430 490 460 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
<770 490 770 520 "" 0 0 0 "">
<740 490 770 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
<520 490 560 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
<560 490 680 490 "s2" 610 460 16 "">
<560 490 560 510 "" 0 0 0 "">
<450 240 450 270 "" 0 0 0 "">
<440 240 450 240 "" 0 0 0 "">
<350 240 380 240 "s4" 340 180 8 "">
<250 240 250 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
<250 240 290 240 "" 0 0 0 "">
<420 0 420 30 "" 0 0 0 "">
<390 0 400 0 "" 0 0 0 "">
<250 -20 250 240 "" 0 0 0 "">
<250 -20 320 -20 "" 0 0 0 "">
<290 20 320 20 "" 0 0 0 "">
<290 20 290 110 "" 0 0 0 "">
<290 110 400 110 "" 0 0 0 "">
<400 0 420 0 "" 0 0 0 "">
<400 0 400 110 "" 0 0 0 "">
<250 490 250 490 "s1" 280 460 0 "">
<770 490 770 490 "s3" 800 460 0 "">
<450 240 450 240 "s5" 480 210 0 "">
<420 0 420 0 "o1" 450 -30 0 "">
</Wires>
<Diagrams>
<Rect 1020 658 322 204 3 #c0c0c0 1 00 1 0 2e-10 2e-09 1 -0.0999952 0.2 1.09995 1 -1 0.5 1 315 0 225 "" "" "">
<"s1.Vt" #0000ff 0 3 0 0 0>
<"s2.Vt" #ff0000 0 3 0 0 0>
<"s3.Vt" #ff00ff 0 3 0 0 0>
</Rect>
<Rect 1015 404 325 214 3 #c0c0c0 1 00 1 0 0.2 1 1 -0.1 0.5 1.1 1 -0.1 0.5 1.1 315 0 225 "" "" "">
<"s4.Vt" #0000ff 0 3 0 0 0>
<"s5.Vt" #ff0000 0 3 0 0 0>
</Rect>
<Rect 1018 161 326 208 3 #c0c0c0 1 00 1 0 0.2 1 1 -0.1 0.5 1.1 1 -0.1 0.5 1.1 315 0 225 "" "" "">
<"o1.Vt" #0000ff 0 3 0 0 0>
</Rect>
</Diagrams>
<Paintings>
</Paintings>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Felix Maier [mailto:felix.maier@...]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012 17:45
An: Steffens, Holger
Cc: qucs-help@...
Betreff: Re: [Qucs-help] ideal OP model
Hello Holger,
there is no file attached? I'm not sure, but it's possible that attachments are forbidden on this list.
kind regards
Felix
2012/1/5, Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@...>:
> Hello,
> I run QUCS 0.0.15 on Win XP SP3 and I am continuously having issues
> with the OP model. The issue is a little fuzzy: For my mixed signal
> simulations I need something like an ideal unity gain amplifier with
> output voltage limiter. I found the Amp (discrete components) as well
> as the inverter (digital components) not useful.
> So I tried the ideal operational amplifier (OP).
> First it looked great but then the simulation always hangs (or
> simulates extremely long) as soon as the schematic gets more complex
> and I limit the Umax parameter of OP1.
> You can try the attached model and change Umax to 1V and it will hang.
> Strangely, if you delete all other non-relevant components, it works again.
> I find QUCS such a great tool, but this drives me cracy! Thanks for
> your help - Holger
>
> ________________________________
> Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10
> 82256 F?rstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany Tel. +49 8141 403-0
> Amtsgericht / District Court M?nchen - HRB 48918 Gesch?ftsf?hrer /
> Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun, Verena Leser
> (Stellv. / Deputy)
>
________________________________
Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10
82256 Fürstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany
Tel. +49 8141 403-0
Amtsgericht / District Court München - HRB 48918
Geschäftsführer / Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun, Verena Leser (Stellv. / Deputy)
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From: Felix Maier <felix.maier@gm...> - 2012-01-11 17:24:30
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Got the same problem here. I'm running qucs 0.0.15 under Debian. But
changing the integration methode to euler speeds things up. Double
click transient simulation -> properties -> IntegrationMethod ->
Euler. So maybe it's a convergence problem?
kind regards
Felix
2012/1/11, Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@...>:
> Hi Felix,
> Ok, here is the listing.
> Thanks already - Holger
>
> <Qucs Schematic 0.0.15>
> <Properties>
> <View=0,-269,1436,861,1,0,0>
> <Grid=10,10,1>
> <DataSet=DigitalTransientSimulation.dat>
> <DataDisplay=DigitalTransientSimulation.dpl>
> <OpenDisplay=1>
> <showFrame=0>
> <FrameText0=Titel>
> <FrameText1=Gezeichnet von:>
> <FrameText2=Datum:>
> <FrameText3=Revision:>
> </Properties>
> <Symbol>
> </Symbol>
> <Components>
> <GND * 1 250 600 0 0 0 0>
> <R R1 1 770 550 15 -26 0 1 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0
> "european" 0>
> <GND * 1 770 580 0 0 0 0>
> <Buf Y2 1 710 490 -26 27 0 0 "1 V" 0 "0" 0 "10" 0 "old" 0>
> <R R2 1 490 490 -26 -59 0 2 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0
> "european" 0>
> <C C1 1 560 540 17 -26 0 1 "1 pF" 1 "" 0 "neutral" 0>
> <GND * 1 560 570 0 0 0 0>
> <Vrect V1 1 250 570 18 -26 0 1 "1.5V" 1 "0.8 ns" 1 "0.5 ns" 1 "500 ps" 1
> "50 ps" 0 "100 ps" 1>
> <Buf Y1 1 400 490 -26 27 0 0 "1.5 V" 1 "0" 0 "20" 0 "old" 0>
> <GND * 1 450 330 0 0 0 0>
> <R R3 1 410 240 -26 -59 1 0 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0
> "european" 0>
> <Diode D1 1 450 300 15 -26 0 1 "1e-15 A" 1 "1" 0 "10 fF" 0 "0.5" 0 "0.1 V"
> 1 "0.5" 0 "0.0 fF" 0 "0.0" 0 "2.0" 0 "0.0 Ohm" 0 "0.0 ps" 0 "0" 0 "0.0" 0
> "1.0" 0 "1.0" 0 "0" 0 "1 mA" 0 "26.85" 0 "3.0" 0 "1.11" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0
> "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0 "1.0" 0 "normal" 0>
> <R R4 1 420 60 15 -26 0 1 "50 Ohm" 1 "26.85" 0 "0.0" 0 "0.0" 0 "26.85" 0
> "european" 0>
> <GND * 1 420 90 0 0 0 0>
> <Amp X1 1 320 240 -26 27 0 0 "1" 1 "50 Ohm" 1 "1 Ohm" 1 "0 dB" 0>
> <.TR TR1 1 650 250 0 51 0 0 "lin" 1 "0" 1 "5ns" 1 "1001" 0 "Trapezoidal" 0
> "2" 0 "1 ns" 0 "1e-16" 0 "150" 0 "0.001" 0 "1 pA" 0 "1 uV" 0 "26.85" 0
> "1e-3" 0 "1e-6" 0 "1" 0 "CroutLU" 0 "no" 0 "yes" 0 "0" 0>
> <OpAmp OP1 1 350 0 -26 42 0 0 "1e6" 1 "15 V" 1>
> </Components>
> <Wires>
> <250 490 370 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <250 490 250 540 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <430 490 460 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <770 490 770 520 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <740 490 770 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <520 490 560 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <560 490 680 490 "s2" 610 460 16 "">
> <560 490 560 510 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <450 240 450 270 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <440 240 450 240 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <350 240 380 240 "s4" 340 180 8 "">
> <250 240 250 490 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <250 240 290 240 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <420 0 420 30 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <390 0 400 0 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <250 -20 250 240 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <250 -20 320 -20 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <290 20 320 20 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <290 20 290 110 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <290 110 400 110 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <400 0 420 0 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <400 0 400 110 "" 0 0 0 "">
> <250 490 250 490 "s1" 280 460 0 "">
> <770 490 770 490 "s3" 800 460 0 "">
> <450 240 450 240 "s5" 480 210 0 "">
> <420 0 420 0 "o1" 450 -30 0 "">
> </Wires>
> <Diagrams>
> <Rect 1020 658 322 204 3 #c0c0c0 1 00 1 0 2e-10 2e-09 1 -0.0999952 0.2
> 1.09995 1 -1 0.5 1 315 0 225 "" "" "">
> <"s1.Vt" #0000ff 0 3 0 0 0>
> <"s2.Vt" #ff0000 0 3 0 0 0>
> <"s3.Vt" #ff00ff 0 3 0 0 0>
> </Rect>
> <Rect 1015 404 325 214 3 #c0c0c0 1 00 1 0 0.2 1 1 -0.1 0.5 1.1 1 -0.1 0.5
> 1.1 315 0 225 "" "" "">
> <"s4.Vt" #0000ff 0 3 0 0 0>
> <"s5.Vt" #ff0000 0 3 0 0 0>
> </Rect>
> <Rect 1018 161 326 208 3 #c0c0c0 1 00 1 0 0.2 1 1 -0.1 0.5 1.1 1 -0.1 0.5
> 1.1 315 0 225 "" "" "">
> <"o1.Vt" #0000ff 0 3 0 0 0>
> </Rect>
> </Diagrams>
> <Paintings>
> </Paintings>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Felix Maier [mailto:felix.maier@...]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Januar 2012 17:45
> An: Steffens, Holger
> Cc: qucs-help@...
> Betreff: Re: [Qucs-help] ideal OP model
>
> Hello Holger,
>
> there is no file attached? I'm not sure, but it's possible that attachments
> are forbidden on this list.
>
> kind regards
> Felix
>
> 2012/1/5, Steffens, Holger <hsteffens@...>:
>> Hello,
>> I run QUCS 0.0.15 on Win XP SP3 and I am continuously having issues
>> with the OP model. The issue is a little fuzzy: For my mixed signal
>> simulations I need something like an ideal unity gain amplifier with
>> output voltage limiter. I found the Amp (discrete components) as well
>> as the inverter (digital components) not useful.
>> So I tried the ideal operational amplifier (OP).
>> First it looked great but then the simulation always hangs (or
>> simulates extremely long) as soon as the schematic gets more complex
>> and I limit the Umax parameter of OP1.
>> You can try the attached model and change Umax to 1V and it will hang.
>> Strangely, if you delete all other non-relevant components, it works
>> again.
>> I find QUCS such a great tool, but this drives me cracy! Thanks for
>> your help - Holger
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10
>> 82256 F?rstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany Tel. +49 8141 403-0
>> Amtsgericht / District Court M?nchen - HRB 48918 Gesch?ftsf?hrer /
>> Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun, Verena Leser
>> (Stellv. / Deputy)
>>
> ________________________________
> Schleifring und Apparatebau GmbH - Am Hardtanger 10
> 82256 Fürstenfeldbruck - Deutschland / Germany
> Tel. +49 8141 403-0
> Amtsgericht / District Court München - HRB 48918
> Geschäftsführer / Management Board: Stephan Bode, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Heun,
> Verena Leser (Stellv. / Deputy)
>
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