qscada-developers

[Qscada-developers] Hi all

[Reza A. <azi...@gm...>]

Hi

i am a software engineer that work on monitoring an control software for
many years.
i found your project interesting, and if it is possible, i want to help you
on it.

i can help you on analyze and design of it base on Object Oriented concept.
also i do a distributed data collecting project design base on MySql, java
(j2ee) and Ajax
that consist of tree part, 1.Data access  2.Storage 3.User interface .
i think here you need more complex one, i can work on it.

i do not find any thing about IEC 61850 in your project and if you know,
it is a standard protocol for many new relay in SCADA.
how about it?

thanks
Reza

Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[Jovan K. <cho...@gm...>]

On 3/17/07, Reza Azizi <azi...@gm...> wrote:
> Hi


Hi Reza,

Welcome on board ;)


> i am a software engineer that work on monitoring an control software for
> many years.
> i found your project interesting, and if it is possible, i want to help you
> on it.

Every helping hand is welcomed

> i can help you on analyze and design of it base on Object Oriented concept.
> also i do a distributed data collecting project design base on MySql, java
> (j2ee) and Ajax
> that consist of tree part, 1.Data access  2.Storage 3.User interface .
> i think here you need more complex one, i can work on it.

Great. We have web interface in mind based on Ajax. Currently we are
focused on the architectural design and I'm planing to start writing
some demo app and basic modules.
If you want you can start with thinking of some basic concept
for the web client based on Ajax, or just tell us what's close ti
your heart and you can help on that topic

> i do not find any thing about IEC 61850 in your project and if you know,
> it is a standard protocol for many new relay in SCADA.
> how about it?

Right. We didn't write anything about IEC 61850.
I'm currently writing and implementation of IEC 61850,
it's a protocol for transformer substation automation
basicly, so that's why I didn't say a word.

But I think we should include it at later stage
when we have something working.

The best thing about FOSS is that you just share the
idea and some basic code, then the others that find
your idea interesting are contributing.
The code is not mine but our ;)

GREETZ, Jovan

Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Jovan Kostovski wrote:
> On 3/17/07, Reza Azizi <azi...@gm...> wrote:
>> Hi
> 
> 
> Hi Reza,
> 
> Welcome on board ;)
> 
> 
>> i am a software engineer that work on monitoring an control software for
>> many years.
>> i found your project interesting, and if it is possible, i want to help you
>> on it.
> 
> Every helping hand is welcomed
> 
>> i can help you on analyze and design of it base on Object Oriented concept.
>> also i do a distributed data collecting project design base on MySql, java
>> (j2ee) and Ajax
>> that consist of tree part, 1.Data access  2.Storage 3.User interface .
>> i think here you need more complex one, i can work on it.
> 
> Great. We have web interface in mind based on Ajax. Currently we are
> focused on the architectural design and I'm planing to start writing
> some demo app and basic modules.
> If you want you can start with thinking of some basic concept
> for the web client based on Ajax, or just tell us what's close ti
> your heart and you can help on that topic
> 
>> i do not find any thing about IEC 61850 in your project and if you know,
>> it is a standard protocol for many new relay in SCADA.
>> how about it?
> 
> Right. We didn't write anything about IEC 61850.
> I'm currently writing and implementation of IEC 61850,
> it's a protocol for transformer substation automation
> basicly, so that's why I didn't say a word.
> 
> But I think we should include it at later stage
> when we have something working.

grouper.ieee.org/groups/1525/Meetings/Louisville99/AnnexH_P1525HD1r12.doc
-

>From this doc we read:
"IEC 61850 defines functions representing the interface of the
substation automation system to the local station operator HMI (human
machine interface), to a remote control center, or to the remote
engineering for monitoring and maintenance. As shown in Figure H-1,
these functions communicate via the logical interfaces 1 and 6 and via
the logical interface 7 and the remote control interface to the
outside world."

Since it is a specialty application of what a robust SCADA system can
do, it needs to be included as an application or specialty niche.
It is not central to a SCADA system except the IEC 61850 standard
needs to be compatible (like many other standards) for
interoperability with QSCADA.  So, I agree with Jovan's assessment.


That said, it's inclusion does look like a good idea. We need to keep
the architectural organization of documents is a structure where only
the key technologies are  in the root documents and special sections
for all sorts of interoperability added in the appropriate sections.


Also, for the record, I have support use of JAVA with QT in this project.


> 
> The best thing about FOSS is that you just share the
> idea and some basic code, then the others that find
> your idea interesting are contributing.
> The code is not mine but our ;)
> 
> GREETZ, Jovan

YES!

James


> 
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Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[Reza A. <azi...@gm...>]

On 3/17/07, Jovan Kostovski <cho...@gm...> wrote:
>
> On 3/17/07, Reza Azizi <azi...@gm...> wrote:
> > Hi
>
>
> Hi Reza,
>
> Welcome on board ;)
>
>
> > i am a software engineer that work on monitoring an control software for
>
> > many years.
> > i found your project interesting, and if it is possible, i want to help
> you
> > on it.
>
> Every helping hand is welcomed


Thank you so much for your welcome.

> i can help you on analyze and design of it base on Object Oriented
> concept.
> > also i do a distributed data collecting project design base on MySql,
> java
> > (j2ee) and Ajax
> > that consist of tree part, 1.Data access  2.Storage 3.User interface .
> > i think here you need more complex one, i can work on it.
>
> Great. We have web interface in mind based on Ajax. Currently we are
> focused on the architectural design and I'm planing to start writing
> some demo app and basic modules.
> If you want you can start with thinking of some basic concept
> for the web client based on Ajax, or just tell us what's close ti
> your heart and you can help on that topic


OK
as you know there is some limitation on showing real time value on web.
because of HTTP limitation. HTTP is a one way protocol.
by using ajax we can have more chance to show user, new data.
but by making network and web server busy.

for web system i recommend tomcat webserver with JSP for presentation
and Servlet for business logic.
tomcat work well with mysql and linux.

you say that you are in architectural design phase.
it means that your analyze and requirement gathering must be complete.
is it true?

> i do not find any thing about IEC 61850 in your project and if you know,
> > it is a standard protocol for many new relay in SCADA.
> > how about it?
>
> Right. We didn't write anything about IEC 61850.
> I'm currently writing and implementation of IEC 61850,
> it's a protocol for transformer substation automation
> basicly, so that's why I didn't say a word.



But I think we should include it at later stage
> when we have something working.
>
> The best thing about FOSS is that you just share the
> idea and some basic code, then the others that find
> your idea interesting are contributing.
> The code is not mine but our ;)
>
> GREETZ, Jovan
>


Thanks
Reza

Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[Jovan K. <cho...@gm...>]

Hi,

On 3/19/07, Reza Azizi <azi...@gm...> wrote:
> OK
>  as you know there is some limitation on showing real time value on web.
> because of HTTP limitation. HTTP is a one way protocol.
> by using ajax we can have more chance to show user, new data.
> but by making network and web server busy.

Yes, that's true, the server will be busy. That will depend on the
number of clients and assuming that the beside the web server for
serving the ajax hmi, the whole qscada system will work on the same
machine it can be a problem.
When I proposed the ajax hmi, I was guided by "no refresh" web page
not thinking much of the things that are going on behind the scenes.
Thanks for reminding us about that.

> for web system i recommend tomcat webserver with JSP for presentation
> and Servlet for business logic.
> tomcat work well with mysql and linux.

I've read some articles on JSP and Java Servlets, but I've never
worked with them.
If we can reduce the network load and do some custom graphic drawing
(for gui components in the hmi representing the parts of the plant),
why not.

Can you give us, your vision of a web based hmi?

> you say that you are in architectural design phase.
> it means that your analyze and requirement gathering must be complete.
> is it true?

Well, basicly we have this two documents listed below and
the discussions made here on the list.

http://qscada.sourceforge.net/docs/vd_ps_02_draft.pdf
http://chombium.awardspace.com/files/qscada/prop01.pdf

I wanted to put all the things together in one document that
will describe the whole architecture. At the time this things
happened we were four: me, Paolo, James and Ian. There
are also some "want to learn" (sorry for this title ;) ) people
on the list, that were asking some questions on SCADA systems
and protocols.

Since the group is growing I think we shoud hear our new members,
so, everybody, don't be shy tell us what you think, share with us
your vision of this project.
Tell us what do you expect from it and what do you want this project
to be able to do for you.

BR, Jovan

Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Jovan Kostovski wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 3/19/07, Reza Azizi <azi...@gm...> wrote:
>> OK
>>  as you know there is some limitation on showing real time value on web.
>> because of HTTP limitation. HTTP is a one way protocol.
>> by using ajax we can have more chance to show user, new data.
>> but by making network and web server busy.
> 
> Yes, that's true, the server will be busy. That will depend on the
> number of clients and assuming that the beside the web server for
> serving the ajax hmi, the whole qscada system will work on the same
> machine it can be a problem.
> When I proposed the ajax hmi, I was guided by "no refresh" web page
> not thinking much of the things that are going on behind the scenes.
> Thanks for reminding us about that.
> 
>> for web system i recommend tomcat webserver with JSP for presentation
>> and Servlet for business logic.
>> tomcat work well with mysql and linux.
> 
> I've read some articles on JSP and Java Servlets, but I've never
> worked with them.
> If we can reduce the network load and do some custom graphic drawing
> (for gui components in the hmi representing the parts of the plant),
> why not.
> 
> Can you give us, your vision of a web based hmi?

Yes, Please be more specific. Are you saying to use Java et. al.
for a general purpose HMI? Details of your idea would be
welcome.


> 
>> you say that you are in architectural design phase.
>> it means that your analyze and requirement gathering must be complete.
>> is it true?
> 

The situation is more fluid than than. We all have jobs and
commitments. We decided to create DRAFT documents, base on Paolo's
early work and some discussion among the initial (4) members.


Once the documents are release (currently Jovan is the Lead)
Then we can discuss the architecture and refine the documents.

We just wanted to get some documents together, so we could
begin discussing organization of the work and then as the work
progressed, refine the documents.


We had hoped to get some code working and build some simple control
systems to put up on the net, as a way of attracting attention
and more coders.  We are flexible, but, at the end of the day
decisions have to be made in order for Jovan ( Lead) to focus the work
product.


> Well, basicly we have this two documents listed below and
> the discussions made here on the list.
> 
> http://qscada.sourceforge.net/docs/vd_ps_02_draft.pdf
> http://chombium.awardspace.com/files/qscada/prop01.pdf
> 
> I wanted to put all the things together in one document that
> will describe the whole architecture. At the time this things
> happened we were four: me, Paolo, James and Ian. There
> are also some "want to learn" (sorry for this title ;) ) people
> on the list, that were asking some questions on SCADA systems
> and protocols.
> 
> Since the group is growing I think we shoud hear our new members,
> so, everybody, don't be shy tell us what you think, share with us
> your vision of this project.
> Tell us what do you expect from it and what do you want this project
> to be able to do for you.

OK, I agree with this, but pulling the existing documents together,
parsing and culling ideas, into a single DRAFT would help us focus
on revising the architectural document for another round of
discussion, before we begin coding. So, again, I find myself in
agreement with Jovan.



> 
> BR, Jovan

James

> 
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> 

Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[Jovan K. <cho...@gm...>]

On 3/22/07, Jovan Kostovski <cho...@gm...> wrote:
> Well, basicly we have this two documents listed below and
> the discussions made here on the list.
>
> http://qscada.sourceforge.net/docs/vd_ps_02_draft.pdf
> http://chombium.awardspace.com/files/qscada/prop01.pdf

Ups, I forgot to write James' document on hardware architecture
you can find it at
  http://chombium.awardspace.com/files/qscada/ADD-20nov06.pdf

(it was sent on the list, i converted it to pdf and uploaded on my server)

Sorry for forgetting James :(

BR, Jovan

Re: [Qscada-developers] Hi all

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Jovan Kostovski wrote:
> On 3/22/07, Jovan Kostovski <cho...@gm...> wrote:
>> Well, basicly we have this two documents listed below and
>> the discussions made here on the list.
>>
>> http://qscada.sourceforge.net/docs/vd_ps_02_draft.pdf
>> http://chombium.awardspace.com/files/qscada/prop01.pdf
> 
> Ups, I forgot to write James' document on hardware architecture
> you can find it at
>   http://chombium.awardspace.com/files/qscada/ADD-20nov06.pdf
> 
> (it was sent on the list, i converted it to pdf and uploaded on my server)
> 
> Sorry for forgetting James :(

Urgh,

That is a very ugly DRAFT document.  I focused on ideas not
penmanship...... I.E. that document needs to be parsed for ideas and
examples to include in the Root documents.


How we create, maintain and  publish documents also needs to be addressed.

James

> 
> BR, Jovan
> 
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