qscada-developers

[Qscada-developers] R: Document templates

[Paolo S. <pao...@ya...>]

Hi all,=0A=0Athank you for your effort and your ideas. I=B4m honoured to wo=
rk with you all.=0A=0ATalking about coding convention, I=B4d like to invite=
 you to consider something like this=0Ahttp://www.cs.rice.edu/~dwallach/CPl=
usPlusStyle.html=0A=0ASource structure:=0AI agree with you, but I think is =
not necessary to put my name, I think is better to put the name of the sw d=
eveloper who wrote it.=0A=0A=0ADocuments:=0AWhen I wrote the first vision d=
ocument draft I tried to make it clean and simple as much as possible. I th=
ink this is what we need in principle. Concerning fonts and templates I=B4l=
l look if there are any standard we can use. Any idea is welcome at this st=
age.=0A=0ATalking about GUI, yes, I=B4d like to use Qt (GPL version) and th=
e scripting engine QSA. I think Qt+QSA can help us to make QScada flexible =
and powerful.=0A=0A=0ATake care,=0Apaolo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Messaggio orig=
inale -----=0ADa: Jovan Kostovski <cho...@gm...>=0AA: qscada-develope=
rs...@li...=0AInviato: Mercoled=EC 29 novembre 2006, 17:16:53=
=0AOggetto: [Qscada-developers] Document templates=0A=0AHi all,=0A=0AAs we =
said, we need some templates for the documents.=0A=0AWhat kind of templates=
 do we need?=0A1. Source code templates=0A2. Document templates for documen=
tation, propositions etc.=0A...=0A...=0A=0A=0AWhich parts should we discuss=
 about the document structure=0A=0A1. Sources:=0A    - header comment=0A   =
          - filename=0A             - description=0A             - author ?=
? ((we'll probably put Paolo's name here, as he=0Ais the project leader)=0A=
             - revision history=0A             - license=0A    - code forma=
tting=0A    - naming conventions=0A    ...=0A    ...=0A    ...=0A=0A2. Gene=
ral Document contents:=0A   - front page layout=0A   - table of contents=0A=
   - header=0A   -  footer=0A   - fonts to be used ??=0A   - pictures / dia=
grams which programs to use for creating them=0A  ...=0A  ...=0A  ...=0A=0A=
Ideas/ Suggestions ???=0A=0A=0AGREETZ, Jovan=0A=0A-------------------------=
------------------------------------------------=0ATake Surveys. Earn Cash.=
 Influence the Future of IT=0AJoin SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'=
ll get the chance to share your=0Aopinions on IT & business topics through =
brief surveys - and earn cash=0Ahttp://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Dj=
oin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3DDEVDEV=0A____________________________________=
___________=0AQscada-developers mailing list=0AQ...@li...ur=
ceforge.net=0Ahttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qscada-developer=
s=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________________________________________=0ADo You=
 Yahoo!?=0APoco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e t=
i da tanto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi =0Ahttp://mail.yaho=
o.it 

Re: [Qscada-developers] R: Document templates

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Paolo Sereno wrote:
> Hi all,
>=20
> thank you for your effort and your ideas. I=B4m honoured to work with y=
ou all.
>=20

Hello Paolo,

> Talking about coding convention, I=B4d like to invite you to consider s=
omething like this
> http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dwallach/CPlusPlusStyle.html

It looks reasonable to me. If after we start coding it does not
address a particular need, we can discuss that need, modify the scheme
(document) and move on. I like the structured approach, as long as we
can discuss and update our guiding docs, once we are in agreement.

So that's a YES vote.


> Source structure:
> I agree with you, but I think is not necessary to put my name, I think =
is better to put=20
the name of the sw developer who wrote it.
Agreed. A revision history could look like this

Paolo 13sep06
james 19sep06
Jovan 11nov06
Iain  12dec06

Some mechanism to archive the document before the given revision
are made, should be simple to establish. What I do is just duplicate
the master file with a copy that has a date extension in the filename,
the date of modifcation. Then the next time I edit the doc, the
duplicate with the extension gets archive (manually for me) and the
current file has (2) copies, one with the doc name, the second with
the doc name plus the date of modification extension, right in the
filename.

just a thought.
?
>=20
>=20
> Documents:
> When I wrote the first vision document draft I tried to make it clean a=
nd simple as much as
 possible. I think this is what we need in principle. Concerning fonts
and templates I=B4ll look
if there are any standard we can use. Any idea is welcome at this stage.

Yes, I just had trouble using it as a template, some of the auto
formating, indexing, outline functions did not work correctly with
open office..... But, as other take a document and modify it, we'll
flesh out these idiosyncrasies.

>=20
> Talking about GUI, yes, I=B4d like to use Qt (GPL version) and the scri=
pting engine QSA.=20
I think Qt+QSA can help us to make QScada flexible and powerful.

Well, I have no experience with QSA, but, it looks fine from what this
page says:

http://www.trolltech.com/products/qt/addon/qsa

>=20
>=20
> Take care,
> paolo
>=20

I also like Jovan's suggestions below. Do they conflict with what you
are presenting here Paolo?


To me they are complimentary. What we need to do is say, here james
here is a document. Take it and keep/modify sections 1-3 and 4 and
beyond just follow the mechanics of the existing doc. I took one
of Paolo's document and tried to just modify it for the hardware
doc I sent to the group some time ago. My setup in OpenOffice
gaged on some issues.

Are we all using OpenOffice?  Office on windows can give fits
for documents when loaded into OpenOffice.

Alternatively, I can just submit content in some agreeable form
and somebody can put the content into a template form?


I really do not care so much as to the details of how we do this
as much as I care about a simple, quick method, so when I get time
I can document my work. A lot of what I see myself doing is developing
examples, that are centric around actual pieces of hardware, kind
of a 'hardware dev kit for Qscada' as  to attract other to participate
with Qscada.

For example, I need to develop or find an existing program to take
brand new cisco and Adtran routers out of the box, connect to them
using a rs232 serial port, and run a program to so a technician
can enter a few pieces of information, and the router will be
'auto_magically' setup to run on a controls network.

I'll first document the steps from a linux system, testing the
validity of the steps manually.  Then I'll script it, write
ansi C code, and then finally develop some gui eye candy interface,
using java.  I could use QT-QSA too?

Think about what I'll need and how I should do this, so that
QScada can use/leverage the work for Qscada. After all, setting
up routers, PLCs, targets(embedded linux systems) is all part
of running a large controls network....

I willing to be the 'test_case'. The documents I end up with
should be usable with Qscada.

thoughts?

James






>=20
>=20
>=20
> ----- Messaggio originale -----
> Da: Jovan Kostovski <cho...@gm...>
> A: qsc...@li...
> Inviato: Mercoled=EC 29 novembre 2006, 17:16:53
> Oggetto: [Qscada-developers] Document templates
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20
> As we said, we need some templates for the documents.
>=20
> What kind of templates do we need?
> 1. Source code templates
> 2. Document templates for documentation, propositions etc.
> ...
> ...
>=20
>=20
> Which parts should we discuss about the document structure
>=20
> 1. Sources:
>     - header comment
>              - filename
>              - description
>              - author ?? ((we'll probably put Paolo's name here, as he
> is the project leader)
>              - revision history
>              - license
>     - code formatting
>     - naming conventions
>     ...
>     ...
>     ...
>=20
> 2. General Document contents:
>    - front page layout
>    - table of contents
>    - header
>    -  footer
>    - fonts to be used ??
>    - pictures / diagrams which programs to use for creating them
>   ...
>   ...
>   ...
>=20
> Ideas/ Suggestions ???
>=20
>=20
> GREETZ, Jovan
>=20
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share=
 your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D=
DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Qscada-developers mailing list
> Qsc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qscada-developers
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Poco spazio e tanto spam? Yahoo! Mail ti protegge dallo spam e ti da ta=
nto spazio gratuito per i tuoi file e i messaggi=20
> http://mail.yahoo.it=20
>=20
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
> Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share=
 your
> opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
> http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3D=
DEVDEV
> _______________________________________________
> Qscada-developers mailing list
> Qsc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qscada-developers
>=20

Re: [Qscada-developers] R: Document templates

[Iain B. <ia...@ne...>]

Hi again, its the occasion-poster here :)

On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 04:22 -0800, Paolo Sereno wrote:
> Hi all,
>=20
> thank you for your effort and your ideas. I=C2=B4m honoured to work wit=
h
> you all.
>=20
> Talking about coding convention, I=C2=B4d like to invite you to conside=
r
> something like this
> http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dwallach/CPlusPlusStyle.html

Hmm, personally I don't like _some_ of the ideas here - such as its...,
their..., the...

at work, we use a similar style, with the type of variable / object
preceding it's name, like:

unsigned short usSomeVar;
int iSomeVar;

class CoolClass;

CoolClass oInstance; // o is for object!

and function names are FirstLetterCapitals or name_with_underscore.

I personally believe coding styles should be specific in some areas, but
general in others.  Specifics include tab widths, or "no tabs"; loop
structure, names, etc, but with a general neatness in layout.

Making the code easy to read and look "nice" can sometimes override the
coding style.


> Documents:

Making templates can be tricky, given different fonts, sizes, programs,
etc.  Perhaps we could provide a latex template for people to edit, and
just some font names and sizes to use for *-office programs.  Maybe we
give an example front page, and table of contents, then after that it's
up to the author...

cya,
--=20
Iain Buchanan <iaindb at netspace dot net dot au>

"If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system."
(By Linus Torvalds)

Re: [Qscada-developers] R: Document templates

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Iain Buchanan wrote:
> Hi again, its the occasion-poster here :)
>=20
> On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 04:22 -0800, Paolo Sereno wrote:
>=20
>>Hi all,
>>
>>thank you for your effort and your ideas. I=B4m honoured to work with
>>you all.
>>
>>Talking about coding convention, I=B4d like to invite you to consider
>>something like this
>>http://www.cs.rice.edu/~dwallach/CPlusPlusStyle.html
>=20
>=20
> Hmm, personally I don't like _some_ of the ideas here - such as its...,
> their..., the...
>=20
> at work, we use a similar style, with the type of variable / object
> preceding it's name, like:
>=20
> unsigned short usSomeVar;
> int iSomeVar;
>=20
> class CoolClass;
>=20
> CoolClass oInstance; // o is for object!
>=20
> and function names are FirstLetterCapitals or name_with_underscore.
>=20
> I personally believe coding styles should be specific in some areas, bu=
t
> general in others.  Specifics include tab widths, or "no tabs"; loop
> structure, names, etc, but with a general neatness in layout.
>=20
> Making the code easy to read and look "nice" can sometimes override the
> coding style.
>=20

Well, as I stated, I'm flexible, and maybe we should look, as a group
at some more specific examples?

Maybe Paolo could offer up some exiting code that he plans to use with
Qscada, and we can all hash this out until we are agreeable?


>=20
>=20
>>Documents:
>=20
>=20
> Making templates can be tricky, given different fonts, sizes, programs,
> etc.  Perhaps we could provide a latex template for people to edit, and
> just some font names and sizes to use for *-office programs.  Maybe we
> give an example front page, and table of contents, then after that it's
> up to the author...


Agreed. But, I for one am going to look at some of the
existing/earliest documents and try to conform as much as possible
to what the most prolific author(s) create.

That said, does the form of the documents affect how we will publish
the docs on the web (Doxygen, XML, etc etc) or will these just be
a collection of pdf/doc/ascii files that are downloaded? No hart_burn
either way, just curious.


thoughts?


James

Re: [Qscada-developers] R: Document templates

[Jovan K. <cho...@gm...>]

Hi,

I'm really late with this reply, but better ever then never :)

On 12/13/06, wireless <wir...@ta...> wrote:
> Some mechanism to archive the document before the given revision
> are made, should be simple to establish.

We don't have to care much about that. We will use some versoning sistem,
I prefer SVN, which will take care about that. That way we can maintain our
code easy without getting our hands dirty. Different file versions, backups,
restoring files it's all there.

I don't have much to say about the coding style. I'm completely flexible,
so whatever we make as a standard I will obey.
I like the rules that are shown in the document sent by Paolo
and I program with some simmilar rules.
I agree with Ian about the underscores, I don't like them too.
The coding style can be area specific but we should avoid to many
specific areas.



 > Documents:
I agree that document templates can be tricky, but if we all agree
to use this program with that font, or if we create so,e template
there shouldn't be any problems.

>Alternatively, I can just submit content in some agreeable form
>and somebody can put the content into a template form?

This can be one good solution, but the drawback is that someone
will have to do the DTP fo the others. As the projects grows, sooner
or later we'll have get a Documentation guy/team, so this would be
a logical solution.

At the end, I would share some book links with you
(they are pairs name- download location):

"Practical Process Control for Engineers and Technicians" by Wolfgang Altmann
http://rapidshare.com/files/2333374/Newnes.Practical.Process.Control.for.Engineers.and.Technicians.eBook-TLFeBOOK.rar

"Securing SCADA Systems" by Ronald L. Krutz
http://rapidshare.com/files/5092980/Wiley.Securing.SCADA.Systems.Nov.2005.eBook-DDU.pdf

"Practical Data Acquisition for Instrumentation and Control Systems"
http://rapidshare.com/files/7680226/e0750657960.pdf



Take care, Jovan

Re: [Qscada-developers] R: Document templates

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Jovan Kostovski wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm really late with this reply, but better ever then never :)


I agree with you on every issue. I'm willing to defer to the
group, 99%, and you can decide when you want the (1%)....

What my fear is that we need to start coding and get something
going. If not, we in danger of loosing are small membership.


Maybe we can start by resurrection of Paolo's original code
so we can get something that should work up on the Net.
At that point I can begin interfacing hardware for this
small group (lightweight security).

Then coding and testing can begin? We'd have something
to show others, some 'eye-candy' and live over the net
demo.


> At the end, I would share some book links with you
> (they are pairs name- download location):
> 
> "Practical Process Control for Engineers and Technicians" by Wolfgang Altmann
> http://rapidshare.com/files/2333374/Newnes.Practical.Process.Control.for.Engineers.and.Technicians.eBook-TLFeBOOK.rar
> 
> "Securing SCADA Systems" by Ronald L. Krutz
> http://rapidshare.com/files/5092980/Wiley.Securing.SCADA.Systems.Nov.2005.eBook-DDU.pdf
> 
> "Practical Data Acquisition for Instrumentation and Control Systems"
> http://rapidshare.com/files/7680226/e0750657960.pdf
> 

These are wonderful resources. The third one seems centric on A/D and
digital signals directly entering a PC, which is good, but a well
worn path. What I need is a reference to show how to put modbusTCP
onto a microcontoller (hacking a stack now) and then transmit
the modbusTCP packets to a Linux host, which is running the Qscada
daemon (endless polling loop). Then how do you pump the data
into a simple (QT based) gui. I think if we figure this out
vendors and hardware hackers will feel inclined to participate
with us. At that point, some will be coder and get involved
in fixing or developing modules to add to Qscada.

Once we get a skeleton working, maybe we can just continue
to refine the paradigm (Qscada)?



Paolo is too busy right now. Anybody else want to take the lead
for a while?  I'll be your slave! I just do not know QT, nor
how to architect the over the net data transmission.

ModbusTCP, should be our first knockoff, in my option.....
After all it's the most widely used network controls protocol.

We need to get started, or this project's going to die.....

James