Re: [Qscada-developers] [Fwd: About SCADA]

[wireless <wir...@ta...>]

Iain Buchanan wrote:
> Hi all,
>=20
> here is an email from Fernando, with some questions and comments.  He
> found out about us by surfing the web, and I thought you might be
> interested, or able to give him some help.  I've responded already.
>=20
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Fernando Rodr=C3=ADguez Sela <fr...@le...>
> To: ia...@us..., qt...@us...
> Subject: About SCADA
> Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:29:38 +0100
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> I'm a Spanish developer who is working in a SCADA environment for an=20
> Spanish chemical company and I'm developing it with QT4 under Linux.
>=20
> Surfing in the web I found your project which it's very similar to mine=
=20
> ;) ... as soon as I finish with this I'll try to help you in some areas=
=20
> of your project if it doesn't  takes a lot of time (because I'm very=20
> busy now) - If you need help in some area write me and I'll try to help=
=20
> you ;)
>=20

Hello Fernando,

Yes you and our band of developers have much in interest with developing
a robust and secure Scada solution that can act as both a DCS and a
traditional Scada_Server with PLCs acting remotely in real time with
those hardware components that need RT performance.

However, we are at the architectural stage of developing a framework
that emcompasses many technologies. Once that is finished we'll splitter
into groups with leaders that develop the various aspects of Qscada.

Paolo (our beloved leader and paternal figure, <just kidding>) sees a
QT4 centric scada system with both RT and best effort capabilities. His
early work on Scada can be seen here [1]


> Also, I want to make a little question about my project ... It's the=20
> first time I work with PLCs so I'm a "Rockie" in this area :D ... My=20
> main questions are:
>=20
> 1.- Is there any OMROM or SIEMENS emulator to test the SCADA=20
> communications with it?=20

This may help [2]. I usually just 'reverse engineer the protocols'
but, that is quite a lot of work. Our hope and belief is that
once we have finished the rough drafts we can beging to reverse
engineer many if not most of the proprietary  that
are pushed by "vendor_lockin" merchants. I myself strongly prefer
modbusTCP and have intentions to ad RT (deterministic) capabilities
to modbusTCP.

WE're all a bunch of practicing controls engineers hear, so I'm
sure you'll experience a diverse opinions, within QScada. Our goal
is to develop and open and flexible frame work that eventually
attracts the major PLC vendors. ModbusTCP is the most used controls
protocol to date, because OMRON put in the the public domain.


> 2.- Is there any library to communicate with OMROM (hostlink) and=20
> SIEMENS (profibus?) in Linux? (no problem if it a commercial solution)
> 3.- Is there any good OPC for Linux? I saw a lot of it for Windows, but=
=20
> I don't want to use it in a production enviroment and I prefer to use=20
> the XML-DA protocol versus COM/DCOM ;)

Here's a link that we should put in a resource web page (grin) that I
think Jovan turned us on to, that may help you: [2]

Fieldbus is an attempt to obfustricate CAN bus into something that
appears to be better but is actually a weak/flawed implementation
of CAN bus into the proprietary Fieldbus: [4] [5]

The company I work for has several folks that are "embedded systems"
devlopers, so we build products for companies.....


> My main idea of the project is a dedicated machine with Linux getting=20
> information from all the plant PLCs and store all the sensors values in=
=20
> a database (postgresql or MySQL), then the SCADA GUI will communicate=20
> with the DB and show the information to the user.

Amazingly, we agree! If you are builing a large system with atomic
transaction needs, you may have to go with Postgresql. We are looking
for a DATABASE leader to fluff out that area of specifications. We
want to support both mysql and postgresql as database solutions for
QScada.

> My problems now are in getting information from the SCADA because I am=20
> very far from the company so I need an emulator or something similar or=
=20
> buy a developed environment.

QScada, when deployed will allow for secure transmission across the
internet. Granted you loose RT capbitilies across the net, but I believe
all RT requirements should be pushed to a microprocessor or plc as close
to the actual hardware, as possible. That said In a small, localized
environment, Qscada can be RT compliant, and in a larger environemnt
one would use many QSscada servers with localized RT performance,
reporting back to  a cluster[6,7,8] of QScada servers that maintain the
historical databases and serve up eye_candy for the operators
and other such folks.

We are proposing several security models. I like the SElinux approach,
for many reasons (robust activity within the larger Gentoo Linux
Community and since is was founded be the NSA, American based companies
and goverment agencies are eagerly anticipating new SCADA offerings,
centric around SElinux.[3]

Emulators are an expensive way to maintain compatibility and capability.
If a proprietary protocol is reverse engineered and the details spread
widely across the net, those vendors will have little choice but to
'embrace' any number of open standards, because their customers will use
what's available, especially if it is cost effective.....

The proprietary nature of these vendor based protocols, is the weak link
in all things related to SCADA.

Join us? If you do, we become stronger and more capable every time
an engineer or developer joins our ranks! Maybe after you company
learns more about the group, they will be excited to have a 'team'?

After all our best scenario is if companies sponser an employee
to participate in Qscada to that it solves their needs and we
diversify QScada.  You would be most welcome. Your employer would
be encourage, to send us ideas, comments and let us empower you
Fernando, via QScada. My aspirations for QScada is that operating
companies and utilities get behind QScada and help us develop
this open-source family of tools and technolgies, known as QScada
into a robust tool for all of their needs.


>=20
> Thanks,
> Fernando.

sincerely,
James



[1] http://www.qt4lab.org/qt4lab/index.htm
[2]
http://www.soft-control.fr/downloads.php?&lang=3Den&PHPSESSID=3Db4f1b52ff=
75c34392f88957ee0f4ff41

[3] http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/
[4]http://www.lynuxworks.com/board-support/tews/tpmc901.php
[5]http://ethernet.industrial-networking.com/articles/articledisplay.asp?=
id=3D193
[6]http://openmosix.sourceforge.net/community.html
[7]http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Install_Mythtv_With_Diskless_Workstations=
_in_an_OpenMosix_Cluster
[8]http://openmosix.snarc.org/wakka.php?wiki=3DHomePage6