head doesnt move in circle but rather a figure 8
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i am using q light controller plus version 4.8.1 on windows 7 64-bit on a hp probook 450 g1. i am trying to make 2 chauvet intimidator spot 400 irc's go in a circle. however when i make a new fx and click test run on the circle fx it makes a figure 8 instead of a circle. any help is greatly appreciated! thank you! if i have left out any information please let me know. i tend to forget to include some information so i apologize in advance!
The lights are just far too intelligent and are showing off. ;)
Hi Ryan,
For a better understanding of the EFX feature, go to the simple desk, and play with the PAN/TILT channels of your fixture.
See how your fixture move when you move the channels.
A 0->255 movement on PAN will make your fixture move 540⁰, and a 0->255 movement on TILT will make you fixture move 270⁰.
Now, go to the EFX editor, and look at the graph:
X and Y are PAN and TILT, from 0 to 255.
With a full sized circle, you can see that X goes from the far left to the far right of the graph, this means a 0->255 PAN channel change, this means a 540⁰ move for your fixture.
Now change the size/positionning of the circle, and see what happens.
would it be possible to provide a screen shot so that i may have a better idea of where to start. my fixture is hanging from truss the 9'6" high. when my fixture is pointing straight down it measures 7'6" off the ground. i have tried messing with the x/y as well as the height/width for a couple of hours and i cannot seem to get this fixture to stop doing a figure 8 lol. are there any in depth tutorials anywhere that i may look at?
I'll try to make screenshots when I have some time.
For now...
Did you go to the simple desk ? I think it should help you understand what the representation on the EFX editor means.
OR if you want to see if it's even possible to draw a circle, put these values in the EFX editor:
Width 42
Height 42
X offset 64
Y offset 64
Rotation 0
Start Offset 0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1j6OFEGqF4
i found this tutorial which was helpful to some extent but does not explain y my fixture would be moving in a figure 8 insteaad of a circle.
i went to the simple desk yes. it seems to try and make a figure 8 even when i set it to make a square lol. with the numbers you gave me it still makes a figure 8 lol
Is the "relative" box checked ?
Did you try from a clean project ?
Last edit: Anonymous 2014-11-04
yes i did. i put them under the parameters section of the movement tab in the efx editor. i am going to try my fixtures 8 channel mode to see if there is any difference and use the values u gave me. thank you for your continued assistance it is greatly appreciated!
What about this can't-be-more-simple workspace ?
i opened a new workspace added my fixture clicked new fx and entered the values u gave me and no relative is not checked. i tried to see what would happen if it was checked and it only went in a straight line. lol
should it make any difference if i have the program trying to make circle in the center of the graph pointing my fixture straight down?
Yes, it should make a huge difference. If you want to make a circle like this, you should only move the PAN channel. Try to draw an horizontal line on the graphical representation, slightly above the center. (reduce height to zero, put Y offset to 110).
Also, try the workspace I attached before.
that works! thank you! what about if i wanted it to move in a continuous circle? would i have to manually program that?
No, you would have to manually build a motorized head!
I realize that the issue that the original poster has here is one that comes from a lack of understanding (and I mean no offense by that), but I do think it raises a valid point with respect to the EFX layout. Clearly the descriptions (e.g. figure 8) accurately represent the DMX values as plotted on an X-Y plane, but given the fact that the pan and tilt ranges of fixtures differs, the result is often far different than what is expected. For example, as David points out I think what the OP really wants given the way his fixtures are setup is actually a horizontal line with a bit of Y offset which is really quite counterintuitive.
Is there a better way to represent this in QLC+?
For now, no.
This needs some time to think about. :)
Ryan:
think of PAN and TILT as angular coordinates. They are not a position on a plane, rather angle in a sphere.
we all know circle has only 360 degrees, but the PAN is usually 540 degrees, i.e. 1 1/2 of full circle, so there is an overlap. Therefore, some head positions/angles can be achieved by more PAN/TILT values.
as George mentioned, since the PAN range and TILT range are usually not the same, so isn't the same the conversion ratio from DMX values to degrees.
e.g. if PAN range is 540, one DMX step is 540/255 ~ 2 degrees, while if TILT range is 270, one DMX step is 270/255 ~ 1 degree. That means if you want to have a perfect circle, you have to make EFX height 2x the EFX width.
It's useful to make a table with some useful angles like 0 deg, 45 deg, 90 deg, etc. Calculator is your friend :)
Let's say you have the head mounted to an overhead truss pointing straight down. If you make an circle EFX with width=20, height=40, offset x=128, offset y=128, you will get a circle with a diameter of ~40 degrees on the floor exactly below the truss. If you now change the offset Y to 32 (128-90*(270/255)), the head will be doing the same circle, but will be pointing horizontally.
This way, you can make several presets: like circle at the stage centre, circle stage left, stage right, overhead, etc. One EFX for each position.
If you want to have also 8, again one EFX for each position.
This is where relative comes handy: When relative is checked, EFX is added to whatever position the head is currently. You can create positions as Scenes with PAN/TILT channels, and create your EFX in a neutral position with offset x=127 and offset y=127. So you will have: set of position scenes (stage centre, circle stage left, stage right, overhead, etc.) and set of neutral EFX (circle, 8,...). In VC, create a set of buttons (solo frame) for positions, and another for EFX. You can even add XYPad and move the circle during the show wherever you want.
David, George: I was thinking of displaying "guide lines" every 45 or 90 degrees, both for PAN and for TILT. Alternatively, we could scale the preview window according to PAN range:TILT range ratio, so that the EFX path would be to scale.
My ultimate goal is to enter and store EFX parameters in degrees so that we could exchange different moving heads without destroying the pattern. That requires some changes in QLC+ and some more information about fixtures.
Sounds like a lot of work :-)
I think the current EFX parameters are OK, as they clearly act on dmx channels, and not on angles. It is raw and simple. But parameters could be added in the first tab of the EFX editor, to change the range of PAN/TILT channels for each head attached to the EFX, so a 540⁰ PAN range fixture could adapt to a 360⁰ PAN range fixture.
Or... Can this be done with channel modifier ?
In the meantime, I've been fidling around with the 2d preview, and it is possible to create a preview that represents the 2d coordinates of where the head is pointing at.
Do you think it is a good idea to add a checkbox to change the "preview mode" in the efx editor ?
With the possibility of changing the range of PAN/TILT angles (this effects the preview only, not the EFX output)
If so, I will clean this up and create a pull request.
Cheers.
Jano,
First and foremost, thank you for the explanation of Relative Mode. I've been meaning to ask about this. I remember when it showed up in some revision and I've never really understood its purpose was. I actually looked through the documentation yesterday and couldn't find any info on it and was planning on asking. Perhaps I'll try to test it out a little further today so I have a good understanding of it and submit an addition to the documentation.
With respect to how to best deal with the EFX section, I kind of like the idea of scaling the preview window to represent the aspect ratio of the pan/tilt. While it's still not going to be a perfect (obviously representing 3D on a 2D graph is never going to be), I think it would be helpful to understand what is going on. Keep in mind that a good fixture definition should already have this information so it might be something that could be done automatically (on a side note, I have a few fixtures that have a selectable 540º/630º range, so there might need to be some way to override the range).
David,
You've done some fantastic work already so I'd be inclined to trust whatever you have in mind, but I must confess that I'm having a little trouble visualizing what you're suggesting. However, you know the problem here, so I'm sure your solution will be helpful.
I was sure I've written documentation when I added the feature. I found that I didn't. It's fixed now in git. Until next release, you can check the doc here: http://qlcplus.zvukari.sk/git-docs/efxeditor.html I'd appreciate if you can improve it, for example if there's anything not clear enough.
Jano,
Your documentation is clear to me now that I understand how the feature works. I might propose this edit to the first paragraph:
EFX position is absolute by default-in other words, the selected EFX will exclusively control the X/Y position of the specified heads. When the Relative Mode checkbox is enabled, the EFX position acts as a layer on top of any position that has already been set (e.g. by a scene or even another EFX). In other words, the EFX is relative to current fixture position.
Thanks, I fixed the paragraph.
Like this.
Black is the usual representation, red should look like the pattern the moving head is "drawing".