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From: John C. <co...@cc...> - 2007-02-27 15:48:08
|
Albert Graef scripsit: > Yup, you can be glad if you found a combination that's not completely > broken. ;-) Alas, as I already mentioned, right now it seems to be the > only solution which handles all the intricacies of shared libraries > building on various systems, that's why I still stick with it. Chicken is in the process of cutting over to CMake <http://cmake.org>, which already handles all Windows builds (Cygwin can go either way) and is optional on Unix builds. If I get some time I'll experiment with putting together a buildfile for Q. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how efficient and easy to use it is. -- John Cowan http://ccil.org/~cowan co...@cc... Arise, you prisoners of Windows / Arise, you slaves of Redmond, Wash, The day and hour soon are coming / When all the IT folks say "Gosh!" It isn't from a clever lawsuit / That Windowsland will finally fall, But thousands writing open source code / Like mice who nibble through a wall. --The Linux-nationale by Greg Baker |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-02-27 13:10:30
|
John Cowan wrote: > Autotools. *sigh* Too old, they don't work. Too new, they don't work. Yup, you can be glad if you found a combination that's not completely broken. ;-) Alas, as I already mentioned, right now it seems to be the only solution which handles all the intricacies of shared libraries building on various systems, that's why I still stick with it. Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: John C. <co...@cc...> - 2007-02-27 07:27:49
|
Albert Graef scripsit: > Hmm, those underquoted definition warnings should be harmless. So that > missing config.rpath seems to be the culprit. Unfortunately I have no > idea what that file does, my build doesn't have it and apparently > doesn't need it. I'd guess it's something related to libtool. But then > libtoolize should add it. Or maybe the current libtool version of Cygwin > is broken? Did you try to run autogen.sh on older Cygwin versions before? Googling shows that what needs to be done is to copy config.rpath from /usr/share/gettext into the q directory, and then to add the line AM_PROG_CC_C_O to configure.in, just after AC_PROG_LIBTOOL. Autotools. *sigh* Too old, they don't work. Too new, they don't work. -- John Cowan co...@cc... http://ccil.org/~cowan The present impossibility of giving a scientific explanation is no proof that there is no scientific explanation. The unexplained is not to be identified with the unexplainable, and the strange and extraordinary nature of a fact is not a justification for attributing it to powers above nature. --The Catholic Encyclopedia, s.v. "telepathy" (1913) |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-02-27 01:36:29
|
John Cowan wrote: > My up-to-date Cygwin installation builds Q 7.6 fine, but cannot build > from the CVS head because of autogen.sh problems. AFAICT, HEAD doesn't differ from the 7.6 release (I haven't yet started working on 7.7 yet). > Here's the output from autogen.sh: Hmm, those underquoted definition warnings should be harmless. So that missing config.rpath seems to be the culprit. Unfortunately I have no idea what that file does, my build doesn't have it and apparently doesn't need it. I'd guess it's something related to libtool. But then libtoolize should add it. Or maybe the current libtool version of Cygwin is broken? Did you try to run autogen.sh on older Cygwin versions before? > I note that the first call to automake passes the -gnu switch, > whereas later calls pass --foreign instead. IIRC that's just to make automake happy with packages that do not strictly follow some GNU standards. > Here are the installed versions of the various tools: > > aclocal: 1.10 > autoheader: 2.61 > libtoolize: 1.5.23a > automake: 1.10 > autoconf: 2.61 Those are all newer than the ones that I got on SUSE 10.1, so I can't reproduce your problems right now. Alas, I'm currently busy preparing stuff for the Linux Audio Conference, so it may take a while until I have the time to take a closer look at this. If you figure it out in the meantime, please let me have your patches so that I can commit them. Best, Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: John C. <co...@cc...> - 2007-02-26 19:27:43
|
My up-to-date Cygwin installation builds Q 7.6 fine, but cannot build from the CVS head because of autogen.sh problems. The net effect is that Makefile.in is not built, so while ./configure runs fine, make crashes at once because there is no Makefile either. Here's the output from autogen.sh: $ sh autogen.sh + aclocal /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_PSTOEDIT /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal + autoheader + libtoolize --automake --force --ltdl --copy + automake --gnu --add-missing --copy configure.in:598: required file `./config.rpath' not found src/Makefile.am:84: compiling `q.c' with per-target flags requires `AM_PROG_CC_C_O' in `configure.in' + autoconf + cd libltdl + autoconf + cd ../glob + aclocal /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_PSTOEDIT /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal + libtoolize --automake --force --copy + automake --foreign --add-missing --copy + autoconf + cd ../regex + aclocal /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_PSTOEDIT /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal + libtoolize --automake --force --copy + automake --foreign --add-missing --copy + autoconf + cd ../readline-4.2 + aclocal /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: warning: underquoted definition of AM_PATH_PSTOEDIT /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: run info '(automake)Extending aclocal' /usr/share/aclocal/pstoedit.m4:7: or see http://sources.redhat.com/automake/automake.html#Extending-aclocal + autoheader + libtoolize --automake --force --copy + automake --foreign --add-missing --copy + autoconf I note that the first call to automake passes the -gnu switch, whereas later calls pass --foreign instead. What is this config.rpath file that is said to be missing? Here are the installed versions of the various tools: aclocal: 1.10 autoheader: 2.61 libtoolize: 1.5.23a automake: 1.10 autoconf: 2.61 -- John Cowan http://ccil.org/~cowan co...@cc... Monday we watch-a Firefly's house, but he no come out. He wasn't home. Tuesday we go to the ball game, but he fool us. He no show up. Wednesday he go to the ball game, and we fool him. We no show up. Thursday was a double-header. Nobody show up. Friday it rained all day. There was no ball game, so we stayed home and we listened to it on-a the radio. --Chicolini |
From: Bernardita E. <ch...@ga...> - 2007-02-25 08:36:08
|
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From: Sandra O. <mu...@ka...> - 2007-02-17 17:23:22
|
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From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-02-11 11:34:38
|
Oh, and btw my wikispace username is agraef, just in case you want to contact me via the wikispaces mail feature. Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-02-11 11:32:56
|
Hi John, thanks for setting up the Q entry on the programming wiki! John Cowan wrote: >> BTW, I already banged together a little teaser here on wikispaces: >> http://q-lang.wikispaces.com/ > > Looks good. When you settle on a site, we can all go nuts updating it. Well, I've decided to stick with wikispaces for now, if only because I like its ease of use and the idea to have a separate space which can be backed up and restored easily. If anyone who wants to contribute to the wiki is unhappy with that decision then please let me know asap, it shouldn't be a big deal to transfer the stuff to another site if needed, at least as long as there's not much content yet. I have already set up a second account on wikispaces to make it easier for you to edit things, for those of you who don't like the idea of having to register. Please go over to http://www.wikispaces.com, click on the "Sign in" link in the upper right corner, and enter the following username and password: q-lang-editors *qrules* Click on the "Sign In" button and then on the "q-lang" link below "My Spaces" and you're ready to go. Those of you who prefer to have a personalized account, so that you can better keep track of your changes and use the notification features, please just let me know your email address (or wikispaces username if you already have one) so that I can send you an invitation to join the q-lang wiki as a member. In any case, feel free to add and edit stuff to your heart's content. ;-) In particular, it would be great if we could have some additional information on things which aren't documented very well (or not at all) in the available documentation, such as the Chicken interface (John?) and the rational number and polynomial support (Rob?). I'm probably going to start out with some introductory texts and migrate the FAQ over to the wiki in the next few hours, and also add a link to the q-lang website. Have fun! :) Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: John C. <co...@cc...> - 2007-02-11 05:52:25
|
Albert Graef scripsit: > That sounds like a good idea! How do I get to edit this wiki, do I just > register, add a new entry for Q on the frontpage and get going, or > should I first ask someone? There doesn't seem to be any need to ask anyone: I just created an account, created a Q page at http://programming.wikia.com/wiki/Q , and added it to the main page. (I grabbed the text from your About Q page.) Feel free to elaborate. > Also, does Wikia have an option to make backups? A current-version-only dump is available at: http://www.wikia.com/dbdumps/programming/pages_current.xml and an all-versions dump suitable for importing into another copy of Wikimedia at: http://www.wikia.com/dbdumps/programming/pages_full.xml The backup copies are kept on two different machines. See http://www.wikia.com/wiki/Database_download for details. > BTW, I already banged together a little teaser here on wikispaces: > http://q-lang.wikispaces.com/ Looks good. When you settle on a site, we can all go nuts updating it. -- John Cowan co...@cc... http://ccil.org/~cowan Original line from The Warrior's Apprentice by Lois McMaster Bujold: "Only on Barrayar would pulling a loaded needler start a stampede toward one." English-to-Russian-to-English mangling thereof: "Only on Barrayar you risk to lose support instead of finding it when you threat with the charged weapon." |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-02-11 00:31:51
|
John Cowan wrote: > How about adding our stuff to the Programming Wikia? It's free, > supported by Google ads along the right edge. Currently the Programming > Wikia is very small so our stuff would certainly not be crowded out, and > it's under the GFDL license, which fits with Q's GPL license. It uses > MediaWiki software, like Wikipedia, and in fact Wikia in general is an > offshoot of Wikipedia. That sounds like a good idea! How do I get to edit this wiki, do I just register, add a new entry for Q on the frontpage and get going, or should I first ask someone? Also, does Wikia have an option to make backups? BTW, I already banged together a little teaser here on wikispaces: http://q-lang.wikispaces.com/ Wikispaces certainly isn't as professional-looking as Wikia, but it offers lots of space for free, the ads are not much more obtrusive than on Wikia, it has both WYSIWYG (kind of) and textual editing and an easy way to make backups. After playing around with it for a little while, I must say that I like it. The downside is that AFAICT you do have to register with your email address and get an invitation to edit a wiki (unless we want to just make the wiki editable by everyone, which is probably an invitation for spammers). Further ideas/comments appreciated... Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: John C. <co...@cc...> - 2007-02-10 22:38:52
|
Albert Graef scripsit: > As sf.net doesn't support wikis (yet), and I don't want to waste any > time setting up my own, I thought about going with one of the free wiki > farms on the net. Maybe pbwiki, as I already know that one. wikispaces > also looks nice and offers more storage. Does anyone here have other > tips or recommendations? How about adding our stuff to the Programming Wikia? It's free, supported by Google ads along the right edge. Currently the Programming Wikia is very small so our stuff would certainly not be crowded out, and it's under the GFDL license, which fits with Q's GPL license. It uses MediaWiki software, like Wikipedia, and in fact Wikia in general is an offshoot of Wikipedia. http://programming.wikia.com -- John Cowan co...@cc... http://ccil.org/~cowan In the sciences, we are now uniquely privileged to sit side by side with the giants on whose shoulders we stand. --Gerald Holton |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-02-10 22:01:23
|
Hi there, well, it's been a bit quiet here, but the winter semester is going to end next week, so I hope that I'll be able to start working on Q 7.7 soon (I still have a few things on my TODO list). As I pointed out earlier, I'd like to start a wiki for Q. Not really for a book, but just to collect relevant information and tips, that everyone over here can edit and add to if you like. So I guess that wikibook wouldn't be the right place for that kind of thing. As sf.net doesn't support wikis (yet), and I don't want to waste any time setting up my own, I thought about going with one of the free wiki farms on the net. Maybe pbwiki, as I already know that one. wikispaces also looks nice and offers more storage. Does anyone here have other tips or recommendations? Cheers, Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: Evpraksiya Q. <ha...@fa...> - 2007-02-09 10:59:30
|
Hi, Vivagra 3. 35 Ciavlis 3. 75 Valvium 1. 25 Sovma 1. 15 Ambvien 2. 90 http://www.zonr*x.com Important: Remove "*" in the above link Yeah, I dont fancy walking around with a periscope sticking out of my head, said Harry. I spose I could always attack someone in front of Moody; he might do it for me... |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-01-16 08:15:06
|
Kenneth Harcombe wrote: > message = writes "Hello" || reads; > > the function "reads" first, and then "writes", but does return the > value of "reads". I guess you are running the script from Qpad? Then it's a buffering problem. Try using a flush between the writes and the reads. (This doesn't happen in the shell, so the flush is not necessary if you run the interpreter from the command line.) HTH, Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: Andrew B. <and...@ya...> - 2007-01-16 06:38:50
|
(Without actually trying it) I suspect that your problem is buffered =20 I/O. If you put a call to "flush" after the writes, that should fix =20 'er up. message =3D writes "Hello" || flush || reads; -andrew On 15 Jan 2007, at 19:19, Kenneth Harcombe wrote: > Hi, > I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but when I use a function =20 > such as : > > message =3D writes "Hello" || reads; > > the function "reads" first, and then "writes", but does return the =20= > value of "reads". > > I'm using Q 7.6. > > Thanks Ken > > _________________________________________________________________ > Shop =91til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://=20 > shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/ > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------=20= > --- > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to =20 > share your > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash > http://www.techsay.com/default.php?=20 > page=3Djoin.php&p=3Dsourceforge&CID=3DDEVDEV____________________________= ____=20 > _______________ > q-lang-users mailing list > q-l...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/q-lang-users |
From: Kenneth H. <kli...@ho...> - 2007-01-16 03:19:26
|
Hi, I am not sure what I am doing wrong, but when I use a function such as : message = writes "Hello" || reads; the function "reads" first, and then "writes", but does return the value of "reads". I'm using Q 7.6. Thanks Ken _________________________________________________________________ Shop til you drop at XtraMSN Shopping http://shopping.xtramsn.co.nz/home/ |
From: (270) 818-7. K. <203...@ip...> - 2007-01-06 13:17:39
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From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-01-03 20:49:04
|
Andrew Berg wrote: > The difficulty is > that they have a macro which changes "main" into "sdl_main" so that > the application's "main" gets called from inside the sdl library. Hmm, that main function will be not useful inside a Q module. But there must be a way to initialize libsdl without this? > Yep, that is exactly my plan. Ok, let us know how things are going. ;-) Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: Andrew B. <and...@ya...> - 2007-01-03 14:13:23
|
On 2 Jan 2007, at 23:49, Albert Graef wrote: > > You can tell SWIG to ignore various parts of the interface. But if you > have a Linux system I'd suggest using that for development; it's > usually > the least problematic, and porting quirks can be ironed out later. I > have some experience with that, at least on Windows. ;-) The only Linux box I have access to right now is running the 64 bit version of Ubuntu. I never have gotten any 32 bit binaries to work on it, nor does q. It also runs X, but no window manager nor anything fancy like a OpenGL library. > > Well, writing a C wrapper module is one solution (I also did that with > that xine module, IIRC), but it kind of defeats the purpose of using > SWIG. If the SDL header files are too messy, then it's also > possible to > just provide the prototypes of types and functions that are to be > wrapped in the .i file, or selectively replace some of the > functions of > the interface while retaining others. You can find examples of this in > the sqlite3 and opengl wrappers. Wrapping the functions is straightforward. I have not yet found anything in there that will make SWIG unhappy. The difficulty is that they have a macro which changes "main" into "sdl_main" so that the application's "main" gets called from inside the sdl library. Instead, a "winmain" within their code gets called by the OS. This is required in Windows and MacOS because GUI programs have a different entry point than console apps do. Under X, there is no difference, so the Linux build does not have this requirement. > > But I would first try to just %include all the relevant header > files in > your .i file and see what q-swig generates from that. Take a look > at the > generated .q source and maybe the _wrap.c file, and try the most > important operations (e.g., initialization, finalization) in Q. If > something doesn't work as it should then you can start working from > that, replacing broken wrapper functions with your own code. That's > the > way we did it with the opengl and openal interfaces, and I guess it's > the only way to stay sane when trying to wrap bigger libraries. ;-) Yep, that is exactly my plan. But until I have a .exe which has a chance of successfully calling any of those functions, there is little point, IMHO. -andrew |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2007-01-03 07:43:24
|
Andrew Berg wrote: > So, it turns out that having my kids around for the last week pretty > much stopped me from having any time to hack, so today I'm back at > it. :^) Sdl has a main replacement macro on Windows an MacOS, so it > looks like at least on those two platforms I'll have to do something > fancier than just some SWIG wrappers. You can tell SWIG to ignore various parts of the interface. But if you have a Linux system I'd suggest using that for development; it's usually the least problematic, and porting quirks can be ironed out later. I have some experience with that, at least on Windows. ;-) > I'm going to start down the path of having a separate "qsdl" binary > which will include libsdl support, and will eventually automatically > load and initialize the sdl library as well. Does anyone have any > other suggestions how to make this work? Well, writing a C wrapper module is one solution (I also did that with that xine module, IIRC), but it kind of defeats the purpose of using SWIG. If the SDL header files are too messy, then it's also possible to just provide the prototypes of types and functions that are to be wrapped in the .i file, or selectively replace some of the functions of the interface while retaining others. You can find examples of this in the sqlite3 and opengl wrappers. But I would first try to just %include all the relevant header files in your .i file and see what q-swig generates from that. Take a look at the generated .q source and maybe the _wrap.c file, and try the most important operations (e.g., initialization, finalization) in Q. If something doesn't work as it should then you can start working from that, replacing broken wrapper functions with your own code. That's the way we did it with the opengl and openal interfaces, and I guess it's the only way to stay sane when trying to wrap bigger libraries. ;-) Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: Andrew B. <and...@ya...> - 2007-01-03 06:39:42
|
On 27 Dec 2006, at 22:48, Andrew Berg wrote: > > Well, my kids'll be up in about 7 hours, so it's bedtime for me. > Tomorrow I'll try to rewrite SDL's 'testver' into q, adding SDL > definitions as I go... Ta, ta! > So, it turns out that having my kids around for the last week pretty much stopped me from having any time to hack, so today I'm back at it. :^) Sdl has a main replacement macro on Windows an MacOS, so it looks like at least on those two platforms I'll have to do something fancier than just some SWIG wrappers. I'm going to start down the path of having a separate "qsdl" binary which will include libsdl support, and will eventually automatically load and initialize the sdl library as well. Does anyone have any other suggestions how to make this work? -andrew |
From: Andrew B. <and...@ya...> - 2007-01-03 06:35:40
|
On 31 Dec 2006, at 00:25, Albert Graef wrote: > Yes I agree that this would be useful for users who install the > package > in non-standard locations. Do you have a patch against cvs sources? > I'm > afraid that your scheme will break on Windows, though, where it's not > possible to determine in advance where the package gets installed. > Heh, no I don't. At some point I may learn enough about autoconf and automake that I can twiddle with things, but until then I avoid it like the proverbial plague. Maybe I'll take a look at it after I get something demonstrable for libsdl. -andrew |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2006-12-31 08:26:27
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Andrew Berg wrote: > I don't know what the copyright is on their tutorial > (http://www.swig.org/tutorial.html) but just copying that and replacing > all their 'Building a XXX Module' sections with a single 'Building a q > module' would fit reasonably well in qdoc. At least it would not take a > lot of time to write. ;^) Well, in that case it also shouldn't be too difficult to just get along with the standard SWIG documentation. ;-) Actually, the right way to go ahead with the SWIG support would be to make the Q language plugin work with the latest SWIG and get everything into the official package. Quite a lot of work, though, and SWIG is still very much a moving target right now, so this will have to wait until it stabilizes. Cheers, and a happy new year, Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |
From: Albert G. <Dr....@t-...> - 2006-12-31 08:19:26
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Andrew Berg wrote: > I'm not really looking for them to pick up the -I and -L flags, but > rather to notice that I gave './configure' a '--prefix=' directive, > so that qcc knows _at_least_ where its own 'qint.h', 'libqint.*', &c. > are located. Yes I agree that this would be useful for users who install the package in non-standard locations. Do you have a patch against cvs sources? I'm afraid that your scheme will break on Windows, though, where it's not possible to determine in advance where the package gets installed. Albert -- Dr. Albert Gr"af Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany Email: Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu... WWW: http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag |