q-lang-users — general discussion, questions, suggestions, etc.

Re: [q-lang-users] Vim Mode?

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Abram wrote:
> Forgot to ask: does anybody have a vim mode for Q?

You mean syntax highlighting? Not yet. Attached is a minimal one, which
I quickly cobbled together in the past few minutes, starting from vim's
Prolog mode. It does keywords, comments, strings and decimal numbers for
now; I'll upload a more comprehensive version to the wiki later today.

Note that I don't know vim very well. If you have specific suggestions
on what might go into the syntax file, please let me know.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] First Q

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Abram wrote:
> ==> square X = X * X;

The interpreter only accepts expressions to evaluate. So '=' will be
interpreted as the equality operator here (which isn't by default
defined on symbolic expressions, hence the expression 'square X=X*X' is
in normal form).

To enter a script with definitions, you must save it to a file and load
it with the interpreter (similar to Hugs or ghci). For instance:

==> edit square.q

<<enter the script in vi and save it>>

==> run square.q

==> square 3
9

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Vim Mode?

[Abram <a...@at...>]

Forgot to ask: does anybody have a vim mode for Q?

	-Abram

[q-lang-users] First Q

[Abram <a...@at...>]

I just ran across this language and became a little
intrigued. I downloaded and installed the interpreter, and
tried the first example:

==> square X = X * X;
square X=X*X

==> square 3
square 3

This isn't what I expected. Shouldn't this rewrite to 9? I
must be missing something really obvious. Any help will be
appreciated.

	-Abram

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

ed...@ri... wrote:
> Well, today I got in the wiki with popups blocked. I just don't get it :-S

Maybe it's the bug described here:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1740854&group_id=1&atid=200001

In brief: Make sure that you first login to sf.net before you visit the
wiki. This appears to work for me every time. If you forget to login
first, the wiki login status is messed up even *after* you logged in,
and you need to try again a few minutes later.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[<ed...@ri...>]

Greetings and Salutations!=0D
=0D
Well, today I got in the wiki with popups blocked. I just don't get it :-S=
=0D
=0D
BTW, anyone care to proof "Reading CSV files" over at the wiki. I came up w=
ith the DFA so, it doesn't =0D
have to referenced. All suggestions welcome!=0D
=0D
Eddie=0D
=0D
On Wed Jul  4  9:29 , Albert Graef <Dr....@t-...> sent:=0D
=0D
>Weird. If you can reproduce it then maybe it's worth to submit a support=
=0D
>request in the "Project Wiki Feature" category at:=0D
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/\?func=3Dadd&group_id=3D1&atid=3D200001=0D
>=0D
>If you browse through the "Project Wiki Feature" category, you'll notice=
=0D
>that some similar bugs have already been reported. Last time I checked=0D
>they were still not fixed. :(=0D
=0D

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

ed...@ri... wrote:
> I found the culprit, Ryan, my son, has the Google bar on the browser that has 
> popups blocked. Turn it off and I get in.

Weird. If you can reproduce it then maybe it's worth to submit a support
request in the "Project Wiki Feature" category at:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1&atid=200001

If you browse through the "Project Wiki Feature" category, you'll notice
that some similar bugs have already been reported. Last time I checked
they were still not fixed. :(

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[<ed...@ri...>]

Never mind.=0D
=0D
I found the culprit, Ryan, my son, has the Google bar on the browser that h=
as =0D
popups blocked. Turn it off and I get in.=0D
=0D
Eddie=0D
=0D
On Tue Jul  3 17:26 , <ed...@ri...> sent:=0D
=0D
>Albert,=0D
>=0D
>I cannot get in to the wiki anymore. After I log in, it says welcome eddie=
r at the =0D
>top of the page. I can get to https://sourceforge.net/projects/q-lang and =
I'm =0D
still =0D
>logged in. But, when I click wiki, I'm not logged in anymore. If I try to =
click =0D
the =0D
>Log in at the top right from the wiki it takes me to the login where I log=
in =0D
again. =0D
>But I have to go through the same procedure just to be locked out.=0D
>=0D
>What's up with that?=0D
>=0D
>Eddie=0D
>=0D
>On Mon Jul  2  1:14 , Albert Graef Dr....@t-...> sent:=0D
>=0D
>>Albert Graef wrote:=0D
>>> Ok, I've switched the wiki to "protected" now, and everybody who sent m=
e=0D
>>> his sf.net id is now a q-lang project member with wiki write access.=0D
>>=0D
>>One thing I forgot: If you have trouble getting permission to edit the=0D
>>wiki, try to login to sourceforge *first* before navigating to the wiki=
=0D
>>(according to some bug reports, it might also be necessary to go there=0D
>>from the project page, using the wiki menu). Yes it's a bug, and the=0D
>>sf.net team is apparently/hopefully working to fix it.=0D
>>=0D
>>Albert=0D
>>=0D
>>-- =0D
>>Dr. Albert Gr"af=0D
>>Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany=0D
>>Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...=0D
>>WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag=0D
>>=0D
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0D
>>This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express=0D
>>Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take=0D
>>control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.=0D
>>http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/=0D
>>_______________________________________________=0D
>>q-lang-users mailing list=0D
>>q-l...@li...=0D
>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/q-lang-users=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0D
>This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express=0D
>Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take=0D
>control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.=0D
>http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/=0D
>_______________________________________________=0D
>q-lang-users mailing list=0D
>q-l...@li...=0D
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/q-lang-users=0D
=0D
=0D

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[Keith T. <kaz...@ea...>]

 
Hello Eddie -- 

--- From: ed...@ri... writes:
- I cannot get in to the wiki anymore...[snip!]
- What's up with that?

[joke]
By any chance, were you posting on or simply logged in to /. [ http://slashdot.org ] just *before* you navigated to sf.net?

If you answered "yes", then your *slashdot kharma* may have followed you over (both sites have the same owner, after all...).

Apparently, you have been a bad boy... ;-)
[/joke]

I will ROTFL if I am right. Am I?

Cheers!
Keith 
 

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[<ed...@ri...>]

Albert,=0D
=0D
I cannot get in to the wiki anymore. After I log in, it says welcome eddier=
 at the =0D
top of the page. I can get to https://sourceforge.net/projects/q-lang and I=
'm still =0D
logged in. But, when I click wiki, I'm not logged in anymore. If I try to c=
lick the =0D
Log in at the top right from the wiki it takes me to the login where I logi=
n again. =0D
But I have to go through the same procedure just to be locked out.=0D
=0D
What's up with that?=0D
=0D
Eddie=0D
=0D
On Mon Jul  2  1:14 , Albert Graef <Dr....@t-...> sent:=0D
=0D
>Albert Graef wrote:=0D
>> Ok, I've switched the wiki to "protected" now, and everybody who sent me=
=0D
>> his sf.net id is now a q-lang project member with wiki write access.=0D
>=0D
>One thing I forgot: If you have trouble getting permission to edit the=0D
>wiki, try to login to sourceforge *first* before navigating to the wiki=0D
>(according to some bug reports, it might also be necessary to go there=0D
>from the project page, using the wiki menu). Yes it's a bug, and the=0D
>sf.net team is apparently/hopefully working to fix it.=0D
>=0D
>Albert=0D
>=0D
>-- =0D
>Dr. Albert Gr"af=0D
>Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany=0D
>Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...=0D
>WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag=0D
>=0D
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0D
>This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express=0D
>Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take=0D
>control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.=0D
>http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/=0D
>_______________________________________________=0D
>q-lang-users mailing list=0D
>q-l...@li...=0D
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/q-lang-users=0D
=0D
=0D

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Keith Trenton wrote:
> Thanks for answering my question so thoroughly! I should have kept that query *purely* rhetorical, and by extension, to myself. ;-)

Please don't. I'm sorry if my reply sounded a bit snappish; that wasn't
my intention.

Maybe the following quote is relevant to this discussion. :)

"Just because the standard provides a cliff in front of you, you are not
necessarily required to jump off it." Norman Diamond

I agree that a scripting language (even if it's a functional one) ought
to have good support for them, and POSIX regexes certainly aren't the
pinnacle. I'll see what I can do about it, but I stand by my opinion
that a pcre module can (at least at first) be provided as an add-on; we
can always migrate it to the core later, once all backwards
compatibility issues have become non-problems.

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[<ed...@ri...>]

Thanks, the first one was the one I was looking for.=0D
=0D
Eddie=0D
=0D
On Mon Jul  2 19:10 , Keith Trenton <kaz...@ea...> sent:=0D
=0D
> =0D
>Hello Eddie -- =0D
>=0D
>--- ed...@ri... wrote:=0D
>- I cannot find in the manual and GNU Regex manual=0D
>- how to do a nongreedy match.=0D
>=0D
>>From the resource of resources (Wikipedia) wrt. (modern) POSIX regexp:=0D
>=0D
>[1] "modern regular expression tools allow a quantifier to be specified as=
 non-=0D
greedy, by putting a question mark after the quantifier";=0D
>=0D
>and more specifically,=0D
>=0D
>[2] ? Match the last "block" zero or one times - "ba?" matches "b" or "ba"=
.=0D
>=0D
>HTH!=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>Albert: I AGREE with John: PCRE over POSIX regexp IS the way to go. =3D)=
=0D
>=0D
>It is also worth noting that the switch to PCRE will bring Q another step =
closer =0D
to mainstream scripting languages. IMHO this is a GOOD THING. ;-)=0D
>=0D
>Cheers,=0D
>Keith =0D
> =0D
>=0D
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0D
>This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express=0D
>Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take=0D
>control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.=0D
>http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/=0D
>_______________________________________________=0D
>q-lang-users mailing list=0D
>q-l...@li...=0D
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/q-lang-users=0D
=0D
=0D

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[Keith T. <kaz...@ea...>]

 
Hello Albert -- 

Thanks for answering my question so thoroughly! I should have kept that query *purely* rhetorical, and by extension, to myself. ;-)

In any event, I am happy with your proposed solution, but utterly incompetent when it comes to helping you implement it. :-/

Cheers,
Keith 
 

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Keith Trenton wrote:
> My only (quasi-rhetorical) question is this: what advantage, beyond being able to claim Q regex are POSIX-compliant, does POSIX-compliant give to Q?

Backward compatibility. This might not be important to anyone else right
now, but it does matter to me, as I already have a large number of Q
scripts to maintain, so I think twice before breaking backward
compatibility for no good reason.

I'm not arguing that Perl regexes have become the real standard, and
that they're much more useful than the POSIX ones. But what would be the
benefits of just throwing away the existing regex implementation in
clib? If I'm not mistaken, in Python you also have to write 'import re',
so why wouldn't you want to write something like 'import pcre' in Q?
Nobody forces you to use the POSIX regexes if you don't want them.

Of course someone still has to *write* that libpcre wrapper, that's the
real issue here. ;-)

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Keith Trenton wrote:
> Albert: I AGREE with John: PCRE over POSIX regexp IS the way to go. =)

It's not as if these were mutually exclusive.

I have thought about this, and I really think that the regex
implementation in clib should be POSIX-compliant. clib is a POSIX system
interface wrapper after all.

But that doesn't keep us from providing a libpcre wrapper module which
can be used as a drop-in replacement for the clib regex routine.

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] LtU forum

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Just for the record, I've posted a brief notice about the new tutorial
on LtU last night, see: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2327

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[Keith T. <kaz...@ea...>]

 
Hello Eddie -- 

--- ed...@ri... wrote:
- I cannot find in the manual and GNU Regex manual
- how to do a nongreedy match.

>From the resource of resources (Wikipedia) wrt. (modern) POSIX regexp:

[1] "modern regular expression tools allow a quantifier to be specified as non-greedy, by putting a question mark after the quantifier";

and more specifically,

[2] ? Match the last "block" zero or one times - "ba?" matches "b" or "ba".

HTH!


Albert: I AGREE with John: PCRE over POSIX regexp IS the way to go. =)

It is also worth noting that the switch to PCRE will bring Q another step closer to mainstream scripting languages. IMHO this is a GOOD THING. ;-)

Cheers,
Keith 
 

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[John C. <co...@cc...>]

Albert Graef scripsit:

> Oh well, it looks like we really need a libpcre interface. Shouldn't be
> a big deal with SWIG. Any volunteers?

I would recommend rather that you switch from GNU regex to pcre
tout court.  It provides greatly superior regex facilities.
You can bundle it with the application -- it's small enough.
(This is what Chicken did on my and others' recommendations.)

-- 
John Cowan      co...@cc...
        "Not to know The Smiths is not to know K.X.U."  --K.X.U.

Re: [q-lang-users] regex

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

ed...@ri... wrote:
> I cannot find in the manual and GNU Regex manual how to do a nongreedy match.
> Does anybody know how to do this?

IIRC, POSIX regex doesn't support these. Depending on the expression at
hand, it might be possible to work around that limitation.

Oh well, it looks like we really need a libpcre interface. Shouldn't be
a big deal with SWIG. Any volunteers?

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] regex

[<ed...@ri...>]

Anyone:=0D
=0D
I cannot find in the manual and GNU Regex manual how to do a nongreedy matc=
h.=0D
Does anybody know how to do this?=0D
=0D
Eddie=0D
=0D

Re: [q-lang-users] Two proposed improvements to Q

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

John Cowan wrote:
> Maybe you could export your TODO list, either to the website or by
> keeping it in the CVS project directory (which is what I do for
> my projects).

Ok, the "Developer's Corner" is now open at:
http://q-lang.wiki.sourceforge.net/Developers

I started a TODO list there (not much there yet, but I'll fill in items
and details as I find the time). Feel free to add and comment on the items.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Wiki access

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Albert Graef wrote:
> Ok, I've switched the wiki to "protected" now, and everybody who sent me
> his sf.net id is now a q-lang project member with wiki write access.

One thing I forgot: If you have trouble getting permission to edit the
wiki, try to login to sourceforge *first* before navigating to the wiki
(according to some bug reports, it might also be necessary to go there
from the project page, using the wiki menu). Yes it's a bug, and the
sf.net team is apparently/hopefully working to fix it.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Two proposed improvements to Q

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

John Cowan wrote:
> Startup is rather slower on my Cygwin-based laptop:  comparing average
> wall-clock times for "q </dev/null" and "q --no-prelude </dev/null"
> gives me a library load time of 1.8 seconds, long enough to be quite
> annoying (the interpreter itself starts up in just 0.12 seconds).

That's really slow in either case. Startup with --no-prelude just takes
0.008s on my Linux box, so that's more or less consistent with your
figures (factor of about 10). What kind of CPU and amount of RAM does
your laptop have? Also, did you compile Q with -O3 (CFLAGS=-O3
./configure && make)? That really seems to make a difference with gcc.
Stripping the resulting q and qc executables might help as well, I
noticed that the unstripped executables are rather big, at least with mingw.

In any case, I guess that unbundling the system interface from clib
won't really make a difference in practice, since many average scripts
will need it anyway.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Wiki access

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Ok, I've switched the wiki to "protected" now, and everybody who sent me
his sf.net id is now a q-lang project member with wiki write access.
(That's the only way to become a wiki member. If you don't like being
listed as a project member, I can remove you again, but then you can't
edit the wiki either.)

If anyone needs admin access to the wiki (I guess that you need that,
e.g., for editing the stylesheets) just let me know.

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Algebraic types, constructors...

[John C. <co...@cc...>]

Keith Trenton scripsit:

> Works for me. Here's my sf.net account name: kazemori.

Mine is johnwcowan.

-- 
But that, he realized, was a foolish            John Cowan
thought; as no one knew better than he          co...@cc...
that the Wall had no other side.                http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
        --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Wall of Darkness"