q-lang-users — general discussion, questions, suggestions, etc.

Re: [q-lang-users] Q 7.11 def: error loading module

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Hi Fred,

Fred Liddell wrote:
> Hello,
>     I recently installed Q 7.11, trying a couple different ways, and I
> keep coming up with the same error:
> 
> def: error loading module
> Warning: 141 unresolved external symbols

The error message looks like you're trying to run Q on a 64 bit system.
Alas, Q works on 32 bit only.

You might want to take a look at Q's successor, Pure. This is a much
improved and compiled version of Q which has been under development for
two years now. It works fine on 64 bit systems. Pure is available here:

http://pure-lang.googlecode.com/

There you can also find a link to Fedora packages for Pure.

HTH,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Q 7.11 def: error loading module

[Fred L. <fre...@gm...>]

Hello,
    I recently installed Q 7.11, trying a couple different ways, and I keep
coming up with the same error:

def: error loading module
Warning: 141 unresolved external symbols
  ____
 / __ \    Q interpreter version 7.11 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu)
/ /_/ /   Copyright (c) 1991-2008 by Albert Graef
\___\_\    http://q-lang.sourceforge.net

This software is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public
License version 2 or later; type `copying' for details.
! File def, line 77: Value mismatch in definition

    This is from Fedora 13, in which I've used YUM to install q, and tried
using the package q-7.11-4su103.i586.rpm.  Mainly I am trying to get this to
work on OS X (10.6.4), in which I used Mac Ports to install q.  I get the
same error message.  Is there something I'm missing and need to install,
like a library or patch?  Or do I need to link something or change a path in
a config file?

Thanks,
Fred

Re: [q-lang-users] sum not working (x86_64 / linux)

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> Cheers. I sort-of subconciously avoided Pure because LLVM requires C++, but I guess it would be more appropriate for my 64-bit box. Q starts and runs nicely on my PDA, a Sharp Zaurus running Angstrom Linux which has issues compiling and sometimes running C++ apps. You'd think 64MB would be as adequate for a little bit of light coding as it was 7 or 8 years ago, but at least for C++ it's aparently not.

Well, I guess you're right. Compiling C stuff on the Z works all right,
but for getting any substantial piece of C++ software going, you'll need
a cross compiler.

Alas, my Z doesn't get much use anymore, the screen is too small for my
eyes. I do run Pure on my eeepc, though, it works great there.

Albert


-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] sum not working (x86_64 / linux)

[Ethan G. <ee...@fa...>]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:05:34 +0200
Albert Graef <Dr....@t-...> wrote:

> Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> > The splash text may be of interest:
> > 0 ethan@vardo q-pure (0) $ q
> > def: error loading module
> > Warning: 141 unresolved external symbols
> 
> Hi Ethan,
> 
> Unfortunately, Q doesn't work on 64 bit systems, it was never ported to
> those. You might wish to take a look at Q's successor Pure, which is
> fully 64 bit compatible, has some important new features and runs
> programs much faster (it also needs LLVM at build time, though):
> 
> http://pure-lang.googlecode.com/
> 
> In case you're interested, Pure has its own mailing list at:
> 
> http://groups.google.com/group/pure-lang
> 
> Cheers,
> Albert

Cheers. I sort-of subconciously avoided Pure because LLVM requires C++, but I guess it would be more appropriate for my 64-bit box. Q starts and runs nicely on my PDA, a Sharp Zaurus running Angstrom Linux which has issues compiling and sometimes running C++ apps. You'd think 64MB would be as adequate for a little bit of light coding as it was 7 or 8 years ago, but at least for C++ it's aparently not.

-- 
Ethan Grammatikidis
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne. -- Chaucer

Re: [q-lang-users] sum not working (x86_64 / linux)

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Ethan Grammatikidis wrote:
> The splash text may be of interest:
> 0 ethan@vardo q-pure (0) $ q
> def: error loading module
> Warning: 141 unresolved external symbols

Hi Ethan,

Unfortunately, Q doesn't work on 64 bit systems, it was never ported to
those. You might wish to take a look at Q's successor Pure, which is
fully 64 bit compatible, has some important new features and runs
programs much faster (it also needs LLVM at build time, though):

http://pure-lang.googlecode.com/

In case you're interested, Pure has its own mailing list at:

http://groups.google.com/group/pure-lang

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] sum not working (x86_64 / linux)

[Ethan G. <ee...@fa...>]

On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:21 +0100, "Ethan Grammatikidis"
<ee...@fa...> wrote:
> Hiyos. I just installed Q today, submitting a Source Mage GNU/Linux
> 'spell' for it, so that's one more distro that carries Q.
> 
> At least one function, sum, is not working. The manual gives the
> following example:
> ==> sum [1..123456]
> 7620753696
> 
> I entered something similar with different results:
> ==> sum [1..100]
> sum
> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100]
> 
> simpler uses of sum do not work either:
> ==> sum 1 2
> sum 1 2
> 
> The splash text may be of interest:
> 0 ethan@vardo q-pure (0) $ q
> def: error loading module
> Warning: 141 unresolved external symbols
>   ____
>  / __ \    Q interpreter version 7.11 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
> / /_/ /    Copyright (c) 1991-2008 by Albert Graef
> \___\_\    http://q-lang.sourceforge.net
> 
> This software is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public
> License version 2 or later; type `copying' for details.
> ! File def, line 77: Value mismatch in definition
> 
> ==> 
> 
> What is this module "def"? There is no such file either in the source
> tree or installed. I assume a syntax error leading to a bad import
> statement, but how can a nonexistant file have line numbers?
> 
> Testing the install did not produce anything useful:
> 0 ethan@vardo q-7.11 (0) $ q test.q 
> Segmentation fault
> 

A little extra info: As far as I can tell, anything defined in stdlib.q
is unavailable.

Line 77 is the definition of curry:
public curry F;
curry F X Y             = F (X,Y);

The code immediately before surprises me:
public cst X;
cst X _                 = X;

Whyfore the underscore?

-- 
wow.. wondering how to make it more general and less hard-coded is making my head hurt. that's a good sign that it's my code

[q-lang-users] sum not working (x86_64 / linux)

[Ethan G. <ee...@fa...>]

Hiyos. I just installed Q today, submitting a Source Mage GNU/Linux
'spell' for it, so that's one more distro that carries Q.

At least one function, sum, is not working. The manual gives the
following example:
==> sum [1..123456]
7620753696

I entered something similar with different results:
==> sum [1..100]
sum
[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100]

simpler uses of sum do not work either:
==> sum 1 2
sum 1 2

The splash text may be of interest:
0 ethan@vardo q-pure (0) $ q
def: error loading module
Warning: 141 unresolved external symbols
  ____
 / __ \    Q interpreter version 7.11 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
/ /_/ /    Copyright (c) 1991-2008 by Albert Graef
\___\_\    http://q-lang.sourceforge.net

This software is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public
License version 2 or later; type `copying' for details.
! File def, line 77: Value mismatch in definition

==> 

What is this module "def"? There is no such file either in the source
tree or installed. I assume a syntax error leading to a bad import
statement, but how can a nonexistant file have line numbers?

Testing the install did not produce anything useful:
0 ethan@vardo q-7.11 (0) $ q test.q 
Segmentation fault


-- 
wow.. wondering how to make it more general and less hard-coded is making my head hurt. that's a good sign that it's my code

Re: [q-lang-users] Q, QCalc and Pure

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

> Rob Hubbard wrote:
>> I had been eagerly anticipating QCalc for Windoze, wondering whether 
>> that has essentially been shelved now.
> 
> This will happen at some point.

For the time being, I did a quick-and-dirty hack on Qpad to make it work 
with Pure. "PurePad" will also be included in the 0.6 release for Windows.

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Q, QCalc and Pure

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

> Rob Hubbard wrote:
>> Perhaps the installer could have an "install for all users" option 
>> (putting this variable in the system rather than user environment)?
> 
> Right, I'll have to look into that, I'm running as admin myself so I 
> never noticed this.

Silly, I had those environment variables configured for the user 
environment. I fixed this now. I also added a warning message to the 
interactive startup if the prelude isn't found, which instructs the user 
to check the PURELIB variable. This will in the forthcoming 0.6 release.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Q, QCalc and Pure

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Hi Rob, welcome back!

Rob Hubbard wrote:
> [I'm posting to both the Q and Pure mailing lists, although I'm only 
> subscribed to the former at present.]

Note that your post didn't get to the Pure ml because you're not 
subscribed (same spam fighing measure as on the Q ml).

> Sorry I've been so quiet about Q recently. Of course, I see that Q has 
> pretty much been superseded by Pure now.

As a matter of fact, yes. It's just so much faster and better. :) There 
are still a few things missing, but I'm working on these.

> I had been eagerly anticipating QCalc for Windoze, wondering whether 
> that has essentially been shelved now.

This will happen at some point. Right now, there's other stuff that I 
need to fix up first. I'm currently working on lazy data structures, 
next thing will be support for matrices and vectors so that interfacing 
to GSL becomes a breeze. Other stuff that's already been implemented in 
svn since 0.5 is support for private symbols, unicode operator symbols, 
sentries (object finalizers), references and macros, so it's quickly 
getting to the point where most of Q's major features are provided in 
some way.

>     > 1:2:3:[];
>     [1,2,3]
>     > 1+2;
>     1+2
> So, lists worked as expected, but arithmetic didn't.

Yes, as you suspected that's because the prelude wasn't found (1:2:3:[] 
works without that because [1,2,3] is just syntactic sugar that's built 
into the interpreter).

> Perhaps the installer could have an "install for all users" option 
> (putting this variable in the system rather than user environment)?

Right, I'll have to look into that, I'm running as admin myself so I 
never noticed this.

> By the way, part of the reason for shying away from Pure up until now 
> was the mention of LLVM and MinGW; I thought installation of the 
> dependencies might be awkward (and I'm a lazy Windoze user, though I am 
> a fan of Cygwin).

That's only true if you need to install LLVM from source (although it's 
not that difficult, if you use the install docs included in the Pure 
source, and the guide that Jiri has written on mingw installation).

Fortunately, we already have ready-made packages for most popular 
systems now, and these are statically linked against LLVM. All other 
dependencies (basically, just the C library, libgmp and readline) are 
readily available on most systems.

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Q, QCalc and Pure

[Rob H. <hub...@gm...>]

Dear Albert,

[I'm posting to both the Q and Pure mailing lists, although I'm only 
subscribed to the former at present.]

Sorry I've been so quiet about Q recently. Of course, I see that Q has 
pretty much been superseded by Pure now.

I had been eagerly anticipating QCalc for Windoze, wondering whether 
that has essentially been shelved now. I note from the Pure user mailing 
list archive that you have addressed such questions before, but I was 
wondering whether there's an update on your progress with the 
"purification" of QCalc and Qpad.


I have just installed Pure 0.5, finally. (It's been on my list of things 
to do for quite a while.) I installed the MSI for Windows (as 
administrator). Running the shell (as another user: me), I got the 
following surprise:
    > 1:2:3:[];
    [1,2,3]
    > 1+2;
    1+2
So, lists worked as expected, but arithmetic didn't.

However, when I ran this as Administrator, I got:
    > 1+2;
    3
as expected.

This looks like a tedious, but minor, installer bug. I look a quick look 
around, and found the <ReadMe.txt> file (distinct from the <README> 
file). I manually set up the environment variable
    PURELIB=C:\Program Files\Pure\lib
in the Start | Settings | Control Panel | System | Advanced | 
Environment Variables

After that, running the shell (as me) worked fine.

This problem will only bite those Windoze users that bother to set up 
separate user accounts.

Perhaps the installer could have an "install for all users" option 
(putting this variable in the system rather than user environment)? 
Alternatively, perhaps Pure could warn of the problem and suggest 
reading ReadMe.txt.


By the way, part of the reason for shying away from Pure up until now 
was the mention of LLVM and MinGW; I thought installation of the 
dependencies might be awkward (and I'm a lazy Windoze user, though I am 
a fan of Cygwin). However, the MSI made things very easy. [So thanks too 
to Jiri.]


Thanks and best wishes,
Rob.

Re: [q-lang-users] [pure-lang-users] Debian (and Gentoo?) distribution

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

David Baird wrote:
> It doesn't seem that anyone has yet taken up an effort to get Pure or
> Q into the official Debian package lists.  So, unless someone else has
> a special interest, I was thinking of volunteering to be a package
> maintainer and seek out a sponsor [1] to get the packages into Debian
> (and hopefully propagate into Ubuntu too...?).

That would be much appreciated! (You'd probably need to get the LLVM 
debs updated, too, IIRC they're quite old.)

> I also might look into getting this into Gentoo Portage too.

Alvaro Castro Castilla has already done a Gentoo ebuild of LLVM and 
Pure, see this thread here:

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_name=487DAE08.2070804%40t-online.de

> The other major distro is Fedora, which I am not too keen on

Fedora is RPM-based, so one could probably take Toni Graffy's 
comprehensive openSUSE packages (see the Q and Pure websites for 
pointers) and try to massage them so that they build on Fedora.

However, there already are Q packages for Fedora by Gerard Milmeister, 
again see the Q website for pointers. Maybe one could convince Gerard to 
do packages for Pure as well. Anyone running Fedora here?

> Would this effort be encouraged,

Certainly! If you run into any problems, just post to the mailing list 
and we'll sort them out.

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Debian (and Gentoo?) distribution

[David B. <dh...@gm...>]

Hi,

It doesn't seem that anyone has yet taken up an effort to get Pure or
Q into the official Debian package lists.  So, unless someone else has
a special interest, I was thinking of volunteering to be a package
maintainer and seek out a sponsor [1] to get the packages into Debian
(and hopefully propagate into Ubuntu too...?).  I also might look into
getting this into Gentoo Portage too.  The other major distro is
Fedora, which I am not too keen on (Can't just untar a stage2 and go?
Can't just run debootstrap?  You mean I have to install from a CD?!?!?
 And why don't the scripts make any sense? :-P).  This would probably
be the most responsible thing I've done in my life, so I'm a little
nervous about the commitment.  But can it really be _that_ bad?

Would this effort be encouraged, or is someone else already planning
to tackle this?

-David

[1] http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html

Re: [q-lang-users] Cannot query table after odbc_columns

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Jiri Spitz wrote:
> OTOH, it is nothing urgent. There is an easy workaround - I can open the 
> DB twice and perform SSQLs on the second DB handle.

Ok, if it's not a showstopper then I'll have another look when I port 
that module to Pure.

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] Cannot query table after odbc_columns

[Jiri S. <jir...@bl...>]

Albert Graef wrote:
> I don't have an ODBC install right now to test this, but I remember 
> running this on Linux (using MySQL, I guess) and it worked. The code 
> looks ok (in fact I lifted it from an MSDN page). Can you reproduce this 
> with Postgres on Linux?
> 

Yes, I can:

==> import odbc

==> def A = odbc_connect "DSN=efom"

==> odbc_columns A "units"
[("sector","varchar",(),()),("producer","varchar",(),()), ..............

==> sql A "select * from units" ()
q[pid 8967]: caught signal 11 (Segmentation fault), printing 
backtrace... 2 stack frames
q(__qq__segv_handler+0x8c)[0x8050d8c]
[0xb7f4b420]
Segmentation fault

OTOH, it is nothing urgent. There is an easy workaround - I can open the 
DB twice and perform SSQLs on the second DB handle.

Cheers,

Jiri

Re: [q-lang-users] Cannot query table after odbc_columns

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Jiri Spitz wrote:
> I am not able to query a table using ODBC after a call of odbc_columns:
> 
>   > odbc_columns DB "units"
>   > [("sector","varchar",(),()),("producer","varchar",(),()), .......
>   > sql DB "select * from units" ()
>   > q[pid 3108]: caught signal 11, exiting
> 
> I am using Windows version and it does the same with both Access and 
> Postgres.

I don't have an ODBC install right now to test this, but I remember 
running this on Linux (using MySQL, I guess) and it worked. The code 
looks ok (in fact I lifted it from an MSDN page). Can you reproduce this 
with Postgres on Linux?

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Cannot query table after odbc_columns

[Jiri S. <jir...@bl...>]

Hello Albert,

I am not able to query a table using ODBC after a call of odbc_columns:

  > odbc_columns DB "units"
  > [("sector","varchar",(),()),("producer","varchar",(),()), .......
  > sql DB "select * from units" ()
  > q[pid 3108]: caught signal 11, exiting

I am using Windows version and it does the same with both Access and 
Postgres.

Cheers,

Jiri

Re: [q-lang-users] [pure-lang-users] Updated entity names

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

John Cowan wrote:
> The new entity definition file is at
> http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007/w3centities-f.ent .
> 
> Q and Pure should be updated accordingly; TagSoup will be.

Done, thanks.

Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] Updated entity names

[John C. <co...@cc...>]

The W3C has issued a new draft of the unified entity definitions,
updating the names phi, lang, rang, OverParenthesis, UnderParenthesis,
OverBrace, UnderBrace, lbbrk, and rbbrk.

The new entity definition file is at
http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007/w3centities-f.ent .

Q and Pure should be updated accordingly; TagSoup will be.

-- 
John Cowan  <co...@cc...>  http://ccil.org/~cowan
Micropayment advocates mistakenly believe that efficient allocation of
resources is the purpose of markets.  Efficiency is a byproduct of market
systems, not their goal.  The reasons markets work are not because users
have embraced efficiency but because markets are the best place to allow
users to maximize their preferences, and very often their preferences are
not for conservation of cheap resources.  --Clay Shirkey

Re: [q-lang-users] gentoo ebuild

[Á. C. C. <alv...@gm...>]

2008/7/16 Albert Graef <Dr....@t-...>:
> Álvaro Castro Castilla wrote:
>> I have good news about the Q ebuild for gentoo.
>>
>> I updated the llvm ebuild with all requirements for  Q and last 2.3
>> version, taking care of compiler version issues with it.
>
> You're talking about Pure, right? Q doesn't need/use LLVM.


Yes! sorry, it was late...


>> 1) The PIC issue: I had to apply the patch to llvm and compile it with
>> "make CXXFLAGS=-fPIC", otherwise the patch didn't do all its work
>
> There's also a configure option --enable-pic to enable that, and yes,
> it's needed in addition to applying the patch (otherwise LLVM won't be
> built with -fPIC anyway). Pure's INSTALL file has more information on 64
> bit issues.

Didn't know that. I think es cleaner, i'll change it.



>> 2) I had to add the "limits.h" include in runtime.cc, otherwise it
>> didn't find LONG_MAX. Do you want to add this or should I prepare a
>> patch for gentoo?
>
> Thanks for reporting, fixed in r438.
>
>> I'll make the ebuild with all this information. Any
>> compilation/configure flags that I should especially care of?
>
> See the INSTALL file for detailed instructions. I'd suggest
> --enable-release.
>
> BTW, I'm cc'ing pur...@sf... now, could you please redirect
> your future posts on Pure as well? The subscription page is at
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pure-lang-users

Thanks, I'll do it from now on. I'll post there links to both ebuilds.



> q-l...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/q-lang-users
>



-- 
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
> http://www.alvarocastro.es

Re: [q-lang-users] gentoo ebuild

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Álvaro Castro Castilla wrote:
> I have good news about the Q ebuild for gentoo.
> 
> I updated the llvm ebuild with all requirements for  Q and last 2.3
> version, taking care of compiler version issues with it.

You're talking about Pure, right? Q doesn't need/use LLVM.

> 1) The PIC issue: I had to apply the patch to llvm and compile it with
> "make CXXFLAGS=-fPIC", otherwise the patch didn't do all its work

There's also a configure option --enable-pic to enable that, and yes, 
it's needed in addition to applying the patch (otherwise LLVM won't be 
built with -fPIC anyway). Pure's INSTALL file has more information on 64 
bit issues.

> 2) I had to add the "limits.h" include in runtime.cc, otherwise it
> didn't find LONG_MAX. Do you want to add this or should I prepare a
> patch for gentoo?

Thanks for reporting, fixed in r438.

> I'll make the ebuild with all this information. Any
> compilation/configure flags that I should especially care of?

See the INSTALL file for detailed instructions. I'd suggest 
--enable-release.

BTW, I'm cc'ing pur...@sf... now, could you please redirect 
your future posts on Pure as well? The subscription page is at 
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pure-lang-users

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

[q-lang-users] gentoo ebuild

[Á. C. C. <alv...@gm...>]

Hello!

I have good news about the Q ebuild for gentoo.

I updated the llvm ebuild with all requirements for  Q and last 2.3
version, taking care of compiler version issues with it.
I managed to compile and get llvm running with not many problems, just:

1) The PIC issue: I had to apply the patch to llvm and compile it with
"make CXXFLAGS=-fPIC", otherwise the patch didn't do all its work

I get this nice code-quality "warning: dereferencing type-punned
pointer will break strict-aliasing rules"

2) I had to add the "limits.h" include in runtime.cc, otherwise it
didn't find LONG_MAX. Do you want to add this or should I prepare a
patch for gentoo?


I'll make the ebuild with all this information. Any
compilation/configure flags that I should especially care of?


Regards,

Álvaro

-- 
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> http://www.alvarocastro.es

Re: [q-lang-users] newbie question

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Álvaro Castro Castilla wrote:
> I saw Q related to K, which are supposed to be good
> languages for matrix multiplication, and somewhere said that it was
> faster than plain C (well, because it vectorizes).

That Q and K are completely different languages, they have nothing to do
with my Q.

> In a couple of days I'll make a Gentoo ebuild for Pure, as I couldn't
> find one.

That will be much appreciated. :) Please let me know when it's
available, so I can add a note to the Pure website.

> My machine is amd64, I tried to compile Q but I couldn't.

Q won't work there as it's never been ported to 64 bit. That was planned
for Q 8.0, but instead I decided to start Pure, so updates to Q will
probably be limited to bugfixes and applying user-supplied patches in
the future.

> Anyway, Q (pure) first got my attention because of the concept of
> rewriting. I'll check the code when I have time to try to understand
> how is it implemented, and what "rewriting" means here.

It's basically just term rewriting in the sense of universal algebra,
i.e., your programs are collections of rules of the form l -> r (where l
and r are terms with variables) which are used to reduce terms to normal
form (using eager evaluation by default). But I've added some
conveniences, e.g. Pure also has guards, lambdas and lexical block
structure with local functions and variables (much like Haskell and ML,
but it's a dynamically typed language like Lisp), and will soon also
have Lisp-like macros.

I'll let you find out about the rest on your own. ;-) The Pure manual is
still a bit terse, so if you have any questions just ask.

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag

Re: [q-lang-users] newbie question

[Á. C. C. <alv...@gm...>]

2008/7/10 Albert Graef <Dr....@t-...>:
> Hi Álvaro,
>
> sorry for the late reply. Rob answered your question already I guess. I
> just wanted to point out that most of the action is now with "Pure", the
> "next generation Q" which compiles to native code, hence programs are
> much faster. It also offers quite a few new features which make the
> language much easier to use. Pure still lacks most of Q's 3rd party
> library interfaces, but we're working on that. I'd say that the current
> version of the Pure interpreter is already quite usable, and Pure 0.5 is
> around the corner.


Hi,

Thanks for your answers! All the explanations were quite useful! I
tried axiom and wxmaxima, and actually helped me solve the problem I
had.
Anyway I'm far more interested in languages than learning programs.

Actually I first got to know Pure than Q, and it was a couple of days
ago that I saw them connected. I knew it from llvm list I guess, since
I'm a llvm user. I saw Q related to K, which are supposed to be good
languages for matrix multiplication, and somewhere said that it was
faster than plain C (well, because it vectorizes). At least K was able
to do it.

In a couple of days I'll make a Gentoo ebuild for Pure, as I couldn't
find one. There is one for Q that took me long to find (due to its
name! ;)  ). If necessary, I'll update the llvm ebuild, too. My
machine is amd64, I tried to compile Q but I couldn't.

Anyway, Q (pure) first got my attention because of the concept of
rewriting. I'll check the code when I have time to try to understand
how is it implemented, and what "rewriting" means here. I was some
time ago interested in "homoiconic" languages. Indeed, I'm working on
languages for automatic code generation, so I wanted to try Q-Pure in
this respect, especially using this "rewriting" ability. I'll think
more on this, so I can speak properly.


Regards,

álvaro


-- 
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> http://www.alvarocastro.es

Re: [q-lang-users] newbie question

[Albert G. <Dr....@t-...>]

Hi Rob,

nice to hear from you. :)

> I hope you remain interested in Q. Please also take a look at Qpad
> (Windows only), Qcalc (not available for Windows yet) and Pure (an
> alpha(?) version of a replacement for Q).

I wouldn't consider Pure alpha any more. :) Jiri Spitz just ported the Q
container data structures, and complex and rational numbers are already
in the library, too (current svn, soon to be released as Pure 0.5). So
it should soon be possible to port your rational and polynomial libraries!

If you're still interested in this kind of stuff, Pure has its own
mailing list, see http://pure-lang.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,
Albert

-- 
Dr. Albert Gr"af
Dept. of Music-Informatics, University of Mainz, Germany
Email:  Dr....@t-..., ag...@mu...
WWW:    http://www.musikinformatik.uni-mainz.de/ag