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From: Nextime <ne...@ne...> - 2008-11-12 12:33:11
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Hello all. It seem that the developement of PythonCard is stalled. The original developers don't answer to any request about the status of the project, many people here in few last *years* try to ask something about, or better to send patches and/or improvements of new features... And no answer from original Developers. So, i decided to fork the project. Actually there is a trac site (http://trac.medianix.org/wiki/PyCard), two mailing lists (pycard-devel and pycard-users @unixmedia.org) and a SVN repository. On the repository there is what i called "pythoncard version 1.1.2", that include latest CVS HEAD from here and sizer modifications from Tweedly. The version is 1.1.2 'cause of the Tweedly version that was "1.1". If anyone want to contribute with patches and so on, i will happy to make the svn accessible for write. Regards -- Franco Lanza My blog: http://www.nexlab.it email: ne...@ne... ----------------------------------- NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 ----------------------------------- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc ----------------------------------- |
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From: phil j. <int...@gm...> - 2008-11-12 15:07:04
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Glad to see someone picking this up if the original devs have given up. What are your plans for PyCard? cheers phil On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Nextime <ne...@ne...> wrote: > Hello all. > > It seem that the developement of PythonCard is stalled. > > The original developers don't answer to any request about the status of > the project, many people here in few last *years* try to ask something > about, or better to send patches and/or improvements of new features... > > And no answer from original Developers. > > So, i decided to fork the project. > > Actually there is a trac site (http://trac.medianix.org/wiki/PyCard), > two mailing lists (pycard-devel and pycard-users @unixmedia.org) > and a SVN repository. > > On the repository there is what i called "pythoncard version 1.1.2", > that include latest CVS HEAD from here and sizer modifications from > Tweedly. > > The version is 1.1.2 'cause of the Tweedly version that was "1.1". > > If anyone want to contribute with patches and so on, i will happy to > make the svn accessible for write. > > Regards > -- > > Franco Lanza > My blog: http://www.nexlab.it > email: ne...@ne... > ----------------------------------- > NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org > you can download my public key at: > http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers > Key ID = D6132D50 > Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 > ----------------------------------- > echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc > ----------------------------------- > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkkazP4ACgkQ3�ൡ㋕݉뀉ꀪ⽎퀻ﯙ໘蜬淀⩥� > 9P4AoNr/DCTuT8kP8PkpVo6PsBjULNzl > =nIBM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > Pythoncard-users mailing list > Pyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users > > |
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From: Nextime <ne...@ne...> - 2008-11-12 16:29:53
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On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:06:59PM -0300, phil jones wrote: > Glad to see someone picking this up if the original devs have given up. > > What are your plans for PyCard? > > cheers > > phil Happy to see that many people here want to see the project go ahead. First of all, let me see one thing: My fork *won't* be a war declaration to the original developers, nor any complain in the work already done by those who have contributed to pycard before today. I don't really have a precise plan for the future of this piece of code, i fork it only cause i use it for some of my projects, and i need to see that it can be supported for future python/wx releases, and maybe with continue improvements. Some thing that i want to see soon are: - the things that already exists in pycard and you can't use from resourceEditor/layoutEditor. They need to be implemented also in the editors. - Sizers. Thanks to Tweedly we now have those things. But hey, in the CVS of pythoncard on SF they aren't included! - There are other patches, things, suggestions in mailing list from when the latest release was done? Good, let we include in the SVN! - Is there anyone who want to contribute? Just ask for a SVN write enabled account, no more "i can't post my patch in mailing list cause attachments are blocked, and i don't know how to send it to developers for inclusion". I have other ideas, but i want to be open-minded and let the community choose what pythoncard need for the future. Also, i primarly fork the project cause *I* need and i like to use it, so, of course my goal is to have what I need, in the hope that it can be usefull also for others. Other things that i wish to have in a (maybe long) future are: - Complete set of widgets from wxpython implemented, no more need to put raw wxpython code and mix it with the pycard one - maybe a restailing of the rsrc files, using xml/css templating? But the important thing is, and remain, LET WE WAKE UP THE PROJECT!!! -- Franco Lanza ----------------------------------- NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 ----------------------------------- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc ----------------------------------- |
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From: <al...@se...> - 2008-11-12 17:05:30
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I'm traveling right now so I don't have time for a big reply, but I will respond again this weekend. I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project. We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list. Thanks, ka > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:06:59PM -0300, phil jones wrote: >> Glad to see someone picking this up if the original devs have given up. >> >> What are your plans for PyCard? >> >> cheers >> >> phil > > Happy to see that many people here want to see the project go ahead. > > First of all, let me see one thing: My fork *won't* be a war declaration > to the original developers, nor any complain in the work already done by > those who have contributed to pycard before today. > > I don't really have a precise plan for the future of this piece of code, > i fork it only cause i use it for some of my projects, and i need to see > that it can be supported for future python/wx releases, and maybe with > continue improvements. > > Some thing that i want to see soon are: > > - the things that already exists in pycard and you can't use from > resourceEditor/layoutEditor. They need to be implemented also in the > editors. > > - Sizers. Thanks to Tweedly we now have those things. But hey, in the > CVS of pythoncard on SF they aren't included! > > - There are other patches, things, suggestions in mailing list from > when the latest release was done? Good, let we include in the SVN! > > - Is there anyone who want to contribute? Just ask for a SVN write > enabled account, no more "i can't post my patch in mailing list cause > attachments are blocked, and i don't know how to send it to > developers for inclusion". > > > > I have other ideas, but i want to be open-minded and let the community > choose what pythoncard need for the future. > > Also, i primarly fork the project cause *I* need and i like to use it, so, > of course my goal is to have what I need, in the hope that it can be > usefull also > for others. > > Other things that i wish to have in a (maybe long) future are: > > - Complete set of widgets from wxpython implemented, no more need to > put raw wxpython code and mix it with the pycard one > > - maybe a restailing of the rsrc files, using xml/css templating? > > > But the important thing is, and remain, LET WE WAKE UP THE PROJECT!!! > > > > -- > > Franco Lanza > ----------------------------------- > NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org > you can download my public key at: > http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers > Key ID = D6132D50 > Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 > ----------------------------------- > echo > 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq > | dc > ----------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the > world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/_______________________________________________ > Pythoncard-users mailing list > Pyt...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users > |
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From: Nextime <ne...@ne...> - 2008-11-12 17:37:38
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On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:51:47AM -0800, al...@se... wrote: -SNIP- > I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in > contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project. > We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the > services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should > be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list. -SNIP- Generally speacking, i totally agree with you. Forking most times mean generate confusion and separe developers of an unique project in many parts, and it isn't good. But in this case i don't see another solution. 15 days ago i've tryed to contact the developers on the -devel ml asking about the state of the project. Noone aswer to me. Same things happen to many other people asking for the state of the project many times in the past few years. Hey, read, i say "years"!. Also, from 2004 to today there are only few commits in the CVS repo, most of which are just very little bugfixes. And the latest commit have more than 1 year. In the mean time, many peoples on the mailing lists was trying to contribute with patches, code, suggestions. Why none of those posts was considered except very very very few ones and only some years ago by the developers? I don't say that someone kick te patches coming from users saying "hey, they are not well written" or "our policy can't accept those functions". I can't see any answer or consideration at all. The problem isn't sourceforge or CVS instead of SVN. And i totally agree with you that continue the project where it is now shuld be a better thing. But it seem that the developers: - aren't interested in accepting contributions - aren't interested in let pycard evolving - don't consider users questions about the state of the project This is why i want to fork it. Why i need to get pieces from different (many) web sites to have my pythoncard install "complete" as complete can be today with all contributions? I don't want to fork an active project. I'm forking a "dead" one. -- Franco Lanza ----------------------------------- NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 ----------------------------------- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc ----------------------------------- |
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From: Andy T. <an...@ha...> - 2008-11-13 07:53:50
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Nextime wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:51:47AM -0800, al...@se... wrote: > -SNIP- >> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in >> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project. >> We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the >> services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should >> be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list. > -SNIP- > > Generally speacking, i totally agree with you. Forking most times mean > generate confusion and separe developers of an unique project in many > parts, and it isn't good. > > But in this case i don't see another solution. 15 days ago i've tryed to > contact the developers on the -devel ml asking about the state of the > project. Noone aswer to me. Same things happen to many other people > asking for the state of the project many times in the past few years. > > Hey, read, i say "years"!. > > Also, from 2004 to today there are only few commits in the CVS repo, > most of which are just very little bugfixes. And the latest commit have > more than 1 year. > > In the mean time, many peoples on the mailing lists was trying to > contribute with patches, code, suggestions. Why none of those posts was > considered except very very very few ones and only some years ago by the > developers? I don't say that someone kick te patches coming from users > saying "hey, they are not well written" or "our policy can't accept > those functions". I can't see any answer or consideration at all. > > The problem isn't sourceforge or CVS instead of SVN. And i totally agree > with you that continue the project where it is now shuld be a better > thing. But it seem that the developers: > > - aren't interested in accepting contributions > - aren't interested in let pycard evolving > - don't consider users questions about the state of the project > > This is why i want to fork it. Why i need to get pieces from different > (many) web sites to have my pythoncard install "complete" as complete can be > today with all contributions? > > I don't want to fork an active project. I'm forking a "dead" one. > Most of the work for this project was done by Kevin Altis - who has already replied in this thread. If you are keen on taking over the maintenance of this project I suggest your first course of action should be to attempt to talk to him. If you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your conversation with him then I would suggest either creating another source code repository (as you have done - but a bit prematurely I feel) or transferring the ownership of the SourceForge project to new maintainers who will be slightly more active than Kevin has been for the last four or so years. FWIW, I believe that I still have maintainer rights on the SourceForge project and may be able to assist you if required. Regards, Andy -- From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/ |
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From: Andy T. <an...@ha...> - 2008-11-13 07:54:18
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Nextime wrote: > On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:51:47AM -0800, al...@se... wrote: > -SNIP- >> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in >> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project. >> We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the >> services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should >> be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list. > -SNIP- > > Generally speacking, i totally agree with you. Forking most times mean > generate confusion and separe developers of an unique project in many > parts, and it isn't good. > > But in this case i don't see another solution. 15 days ago i've tryed to > contact the developers on the -devel ml asking about the state of the > project. Noone aswer to me. Same things happen to many other people > asking for the state of the project many times in the past few years. > > Hey, read, i say "years"!. > > Also, from 2004 to today there are only few commits in the CVS repo, > most of which are just very little bugfixes. And the latest commit have > more than 1 year. > > In the mean time, many peoples on the mailing lists was trying to > contribute with patches, code, suggestions. Why none of those posts was > considered except very very very few ones and only some years ago by the > developers? I don't say that someone kick te patches coming from users > saying "hey, they are not well written" or "our policy can't accept > those functions". I can't see any answer or consideration at all. > > The problem isn't sourceforge or CVS instead of SVN. And i totally agree > with you that continue the project where it is now shuld be a better > thing. But it seem that the developers: > > - aren't interested in accepting contributions > - aren't interested in let pycard evolving > - don't consider users questions about the state of the project > > This is why i want to fork it. Why i need to get pieces from different > (many) web sites to have my pythoncard install "complete" as complete can be > today with all contributions? > > I don't want to fork an active project. I'm forking a "dead" one. > Most of the work for this project was done by Kevin Altis - who has already replied in this thread. If you are keen on taking over the maintenance of this project I suggest your first course of action should be to attempt to talk to him. If you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your conversation with him then I would suggest either creating another source code repository (as you have done - but a bit prematurely I feel) or transferring the ownership of the SourceForge project to new maintainers who will be slightly more active than Kevin has been for the last four or so years. FWIW, I believe that I still have maintainer rights on the SourceForge project and may be able to assist you if required. Regards, Andy -- From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/ |
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From: Nextime <ne...@ne...> - 2008-11-13 09:32:39
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On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 06:54:11PM +1100, Andy Todd wrote: > Most of the work for this project was done by Kevin Altis - who has > already replied in this thread. If you are keen on taking over the > maintenance of this project I suggest your first course of action should > be to attempt to talk to him. > > If you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your conversation with him > then I would suggest either creating another source code repository (as > you have done - but a bit prematurely I feel) or transferring the > ownership of the SourceForge project to new maintainers who will be > slightly more active than Kevin has been for the last four or so years. > > FWIW, I believe that I still have maintainer rights on the SourceForge > project and may be able to assist you if required. > > Regards, > Andy Ok, so, the first question is: Why i need to say "i want to fork the project" to let someone of the developers answer? Why in 2 years they don't answer to question about the status of the project? Why 15 days ago they don't answer to my post in -devel ml asking about the status of the project in which i was saying "i need to fork it to see it continued?" and before of those questions, why we are stalled to 2006 release when we have a lot of new things, sizers and so on, already done by others, forced to post changes on external web site 'cause of developers that don't answer to post in mailing list? Isn't too easy to wait for someone to fork the project to say "why you don't ask to be part of this project instead of forking it?" when he and others are ask many times during YEARS to contribute? Another thing: i know that SF has a procedure tu takeover "dead" projects. but if I will fork the project, I will choose to base it where i find too confortable with, and i prefer to work on my own resources. Of course everyone can choose to follow me or to stay here at 0.8 release. Last but not least, i don't want to see someone say "why don't you stay here with original developers" after i ask they in devel- ml without any answer. I want to see the developement go ahead, this is the only thing that will make me come back on my own steps. -- Franco Lanza ----------------------------------- NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 ----------------------------------- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc ----------------------------------- |
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From: Christoph Z. <ci...@on...> - 2008-11-13 12:30:21
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Nextime schrieb: > Another thing: i know that SF has a procedure tu takeover "dead" > projects. but if I will fork the project, I will choose to base it > where i find too confortable with, and i prefer to work on my own > resources. Of course everyone can choose to follow me or to stay here > at 0.8 release. The question is what you intend. If you just want to work on PythonCard alone, and have full freedom, than this would be the best for you. But if you want to (re)establish an active community of developers as well, then it would be wise to stay with a public platform such as SourceForge instead of moving to your own resources, because other developers may not feel comfortable there and may not like the fragmentation. As far as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no particular "project ownership" in SF, but all project administrators (and there are 7 of them, who you can contact directly) can add you as project member so you can check in the improvements you're talking about. You normally don't need to forge a project to revive it. -- Christoph |
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From: <ma...@us...> - 2008-11-12 17:29:41
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al...@se... [al...@se...] wrote: > I'm traveling right now so I don't have time for a big reply, but I will > respond again this weekend. > > I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in > contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project. > We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the > services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should > be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list. I agree, but he needs developer access to the exiting python-card project! I hope the original developers at least give him that. |
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From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX - 2008-11-13 10:09:55
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On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:29:09 -0800, ma...@us... wrote: > al...@se... [al...@se...] wrote: > > I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in > > contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing > > project. We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still > > utilizing the services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular > > patch suggestions should be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing > > list. > > I agree, but he needs developer access to the exiting python-card > project! I hope the original developers at least give him that. Agreed...not just to avoid having to maintain two sets of code. It may be out of date, but there's a fair bit of documentation/wiki/bugtracker stuff that I'd rather not see duplicated across two projects. Of course, I would say that, having just gone throough the buglist and submitted a few new entries....I have no plans on doing that twice. -- XXXXXXXXXXX |
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