pythoncard-users

[Pythoncard-users] Python distribution problems

[normanwinn <nor...@on...>]

Bruce Landon wrote:

> I would like to see pythoncard more usable for making education resources
> and the single biggest difficulty for me was trying to make a stand alone
> application from by code that I could distribute easily to students who are
> general psychology students with limited computer skills (not enough to
> install and use python in my experience).  Phil Edwards reportedly has
> some variety of solution to this as per his posting..
> 
> I think that "Learning Object" can be made easily with pythoncard but
> distribution of them in learning object repositories so other 
> instructors can
> share the wealth is turning out to be a serious problem.  The only other
> long distance solution is to try to code everything in javascript but that
> is a big step back from what you have done with pythoncard that I will
> press for easy distribution functionality of stand alone programs.

Hello,

I have started another thread with this - though it doesn't belong here.

After an enthusiastic start with PythonCard I am not using it or, for 
that matter, Python itself. The reasons are similar to those you give. 
To be fair, this is not a PythonCard problem or even simply a Python 
problem but a problem of open source software in general. By its nature 
open source attracts the technically able - notably among the ranks of 
those that maintain it. It is very difficult to get them to see the need 
that to you and I is important. You get replies like, "Do A followed by 
B. If C do D else do E. Then do F, G". This is fine for the pioneers but 
not for end users.

This is, IMO, the major existing barrier to the adoption of open source. 
If Python and PythonCard are really to target the Visual Basic market 
this problem must be addressed,

Norman Winn

PS I know this should be on a python list but I can't cope with the mail 
storm one gets from there.




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Re: [Pythoncard-users] Python distribution problems

[Phil E. <ph...@li...>]

On Mon, 2005-04-04 at 10:00, normanwinn wrote:
> Bruce Landon wrote:
> 
> > I would like to see pythoncard more usable for making education resources
> > and the single biggest difficulty for me was trying to make a stand alone
> > application from by code that I could distribute easily to students who are
> > general psychology students with limited computer skills (not enough to
> > install and use python in my experience).  Phil Edwards reportedly has
> > some variety of solution to this as per his posting..
> > 

Hi Bruce:

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by education resources or "Learning
Object", but it sounds to me like there are more issues here than just
the usability of Python and/or PythonCard. I'd be more than happy to
exchange some e-mails with you off-list about building and distributing
standalone applications if you want. I agree with you that it's a
tedious task, that's what prompted me to start coding a program to make
it easier for me. I'd be interested to hear your opinions on what would
make it easier.

> After an enthusiastic start with PythonCard I am not using it or, for 
> that matter, Python itself. The reasons are similar to those you give. 
> To be fair, this is not a PythonCard problem or even simply a Python 
> problem but a problem of open source software in general. By its nature 
> open source attracts the technically able - notably among the ranks of 
> those that maintain it. It is very difficult to get them to see the need 
> that to you and I is important. You get replies like, "Do A followed by 
> B. If C do D else do E. Then do F, G". This is fine for the pioneers but 
> not for end users.
> 

What else do the end users need? What you've described sounds to me like
exactly the sort of detailed, step by step instructions that are
required for a non-technical PC user.

> This is, IMO, the major existing barrier to the adoption of open source. 
> If Python and PythonCard are really to target the Visual Basic market 
> this problem must be addressed,
> 

Python and Pythoncard/wxPython/insert favourite GUI toolkit here are
*never* going to make a huge impact on the Visual Basic market. IMHO,
though, that's not a valid reason to stop using them. Burt Rutan knows
that he's never going to put NASA or ESA out of business, but he still
went ahead and flew Spaceship 1.

Personally, I still get a buzz from coding stuff using Python on my
Linux machine and watching it work first time when I drop the same code
onto a Windows machine.

-- 

Regards

Phil Edwards
Brighton, UK

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Python distribution problems

[Ed L. <ed...@le...>]

On Apr 4, 2005, at 8:43 AM, Phil Edwards wrote:

> Python and Pythoncard/wxPython/insert favourite GUI toolkit here are
> *never* going to make a huge impact on the Visual Basic market. IMHO,
> though, that's not a valid reason to stop using them.

	I'm looking at things a bit differently. Coming from the Microsoft 
world (I'm a long-time Visual FoxPro developer), I know that there is a 
growing number of VFP/VB users who are unhappy with Microsoft for the 
way they've been brushed aside in lieu of the latest Flavor of the 
Month. These people are looking to pick up something new to develop in, 
and many of them would prefer not to commit to another Microsoft tool. 
Cool tools such as PythonCard help to increase the chance that they 
move to Python instead of remaining on the Dark Side.  ;-)

	That's why if you're looking to grow your user base, it's important to 
make things as familiar as possible to those folk. They're leaving 
their former comfort zone for something foreign, and the fewer hoops 
they have to jump through, the more likely they might stick with your 
product, and evangelize it to others. So while the things you mention 
are not valid reasons for an existing PythonCard developer to *stop* 
using the tool, they would be sufficient for a new PythonCard developer 
coming from the VB world to never *start*.

      ___/
     /
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  Ed Leafe
  http://leafe.com/
  http://dabodev.com/