pythoncard-users — PythonCard Users and Developers

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard fork: latest post here.

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:36:54PM +0000, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> 
> Nextime wrote:
>> Hello all.
>>
>> As a demostration that nothing is moving here, after few posts saying  
>> "i don't agree with a fork", nothing more on this list or in
>> developement of PythonCard.
>>
>>   
> Other than my post on the 13th ?
> I haven't yet seen any reply to what I said.


Sorry but i don't see nor in the archive nor in my email any post from
you on the 13th.

>>  - Patched with changes from Alex Tweedly for sizers
>>   
> I strongly recommend that these not be used, other than for testing  
> purposes.

Well, do you know the words "developement version" and "pre-release"?

This is not a "stable download released" but a developement one.
When those changes are tested enough they will be released as default
download, for the moment they are in a developement version.

Also, if you don't put the code in a branch or in a developement
version, how can anyone test it and give you feedback?

> I'll look at any feedback (on this list), but can't guarantee  
> to respond in a timely manner.

You can have feedback if you put your code in Pythoncard, but the
codebase of Picard will be different from the Pythoncard soon, so,
feedback  from Picard will not be the one that you want here.

I will look at any feedback and i try to respond in timely manner on the
right mailing list for the project *with* the code to be tested.

>
> I do not stand behind these  
> not-yet-properly-tested changes, and I think it's a bad idea to have  
> them included in the default download.

It is a svn trunk version... not a default download.

Cheers



-- 

Franco Lanza
My blog: http://www.nexlab.it
email: ne...@ne...
Fax/Tel: +39 0331 682151
Cell: +39 339 8125940
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echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

[Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard fork: latest post here.

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

Hello all.

As a demostration that nothing is moving here, after few posts saying 
"i don't agree with a fork", nothing more on this list or in
developement of PythonCard.

So, with all my thanks for all original developers of pythoncard
for the base code of the new project, i have forked pythoncard.

The new project will be called "Picard", and the developemed will be
completely separated from the one of pythoncard.

Picard is a name dedicated to the Cpt. Picard from StarTrek TNG,
cause of the assonance ( at least in my language ) with "PyCard".

actually i have a pre-release on my svn, at
https://svn.nexlab.it/medianix/packages/main/pythoncard/trunk
whit those changed from the original codebase:

 - Patched with changes from Alex Tweedly for sizers
 - Fixed some bugs in the layoutEditor, first of all 
   now buttons can be dragged also on GTK based platforms, and other
   minor fixes
 - added a new component: CollapsiblePane

The future roadmap, at least for now is (in sparse order):

 - Change the name of the package (this will be the first thing to do!).
 - dropping out codeEditor, resourceEditor, 
   experimentalResourceEditor, oneEditor,
   findfiles, standaloneBuilder
 - make layoutEditor the default (and peraps unique)
   resource file editor
 - Improve layoutEditor in many ways
 - add many other components
 - cleaning the code
 - change resource files to an XML format
 - let's use something like a zip container as
   resource to embed also images and so on
 - make layoutEditor produce also a python class
   to be derived in the main program

Any help and/or contributor will be welcome in the new project,
this will be the last post here from mine about this, any new post about
Picard will be done in the new mailing list on the project trac site,
http://trac.medianix.org/wiki/PyCard (the name will change to Picard
soon)

Franco.

-- 

Franco Lanza
My blog: http://www.nexlab.it
email: ne...@ne...
Fax/Tel: +39 0331 682151
Cell: +39 339 8125940
Busto Arsizio (VA) - Italy
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
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Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard fork: latest post here.

[Alex T. <al...@tw...>]

Nextime wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> As a demostration that nothing is moving here, after few posts saying 
> "i don't agree with a fork", nothing more on this list or in
> developement of PythonCard.
>
>   
Other than my post on the 13th ?
I haven't yet seen any reply to what I said.
> So, with all my thanks for all original developers of pythoncard
> for the base code of the new project, i have forked pythoncard.
>
> The new project will be called "Picard", and the developemed will be
> completely separated from the one of pythoncard.
>
> Picard is a name dedicated to the Cpt. Picard from StarTrek TNG,
> cause of the assonance ( at least in my language ) with "PyCard".
>
> actually i have a pre-release on my svn, at
> https://svn.nexlab.it/medianix/packages/main/pythoncard/trunk
> whit those changed from the original codebase:
>
>  - Patched with changes from Alex Tweedly for sizers
>   
I strongly recommend that these not be used, other than for testing 
purposes. I'll look at any feedback (on this list), but can't guarantee 
to respond in a timely manner. I do not stand behind these 
not-yet-properly-tested changes, and I think it's a bad idea to have 
them included in the default download.

-- Alex Tweedly.

[Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard fork: latest post here.

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

Hello all.

As a demostration that nothing is moving here, after few posts saying 
"i don't agree with a fork", nothing more on this list or in
developement of PythonCard.

So, with all my thanks for all original developers of pythoncard
for the base code of the new project, i have forked pythoncard.

The new project will be called "Picard", and the developemed will be
completely separated from the one of pythoncard.

Picard is a name dedicated to the Cpt. Picard from StarTrek TNG,
cause of the assonance ( at least in my language ) with "PyCard".

actually i have a pre-release on my svn, at
https://svn.nexlab.it/medianix/packages/main/pythoncard/trunk
whit those changed from the original codebase:

 - Patched with changes from Alex Tweedly for sizers
 - Fixed some bugs in the layoutEditor, first of all 
   now buttons can be dragged also on GTK based platforms, and other
   minor fixes
 - added a new component: CollapsiblePane

The future roadmap, at least for now is (in sparse order):

 - Change the name of the package (this will be the first thing to do!).
 - dropping out codeEditor, resourceEditor, 
   experimentalResourceEditor, oneEditor,
   findfiles, standaloneBuilder
 - make layoutEditor the default (and peraps unique)
   resource file editor
 - Improve layoutEditor in many ways
 - add many other components
 - cleaning the code
 - change resource files to an XML format
 - let's use something like a zip container as
   resource to embed also images and so on
 - make layoutEditor produce also a python class
   to be derived in the main program

Any help and/or contributor will be welcome in the new project,
this will be the last post here from mine about this, any new post about
Picard will be done in the new mailing list on the project trac site,
http://trac.medianix.org/wiki/PyCard (the name will change to Picard
soon)

Franco.

-- 

Franco Lanza
My blog: http://www.nexlab.it
email: ne...@ne...
Fax/Tel: +39 0331 682151
Cell: +39 339 8125940
Busto Arsizio (VA) - Italy
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Odd behaviors of Pythoncard under Ubuntu: errors on exit, StaticText over BitmapCanvas, multiple item move

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:01:23 +0000, Alex Tweedly <al...@tw...> wrote:

> Andrew Spagnoletti wrote:
> >
> > 2. I have a particular problem; does anyone know how to right-align a 
> > column in a multi column list in PythonCard? In commercial systems 
> > this is a common requirement. Similarly, is there a way of setting the 
> > font type and size for a particular column in a multi column list?
> See samples/minimalList - it creates its columns using
> 
> >         list.InsertColumn(0, "Artist")
> >         list.InsertColumn(1, "Title", wx.LIST_FORMAT_RIGHT)
> >         list.InsertColumn(2, "Genre")  
> 
> Don't know offhand about the font type, but there should be a similar 
> direct call into wx to do it. Or, it may not be possible to set the font 
> for each column (I don't see a wx sampel that does this, with a cursory 
> look). You may need to use a grid rather than a list .... but an explore 
> of the wx samples or docs should sort that out for you.

Well, I'm stumped...I Google'd and I tried various things, but it looks like the font properties can't be modified for a particular column...just on a row-by-row basis. I think Alex could be right - you need to set up a grid.

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Re: [Pythoncard-users] Unable to use GUI while a process is running.

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 06:30:08AM -0600, Tom Angle wrote:
--SNIP--
> How do you
> place the download process in the background and still have the progress
> and speed still displayed? I may be in a brain lock, but I can not
> figure it out.
--SNIP--

You can use a thread, a subprocess, or something like twisted and
deferreds

-- 

Franco Lanza
My blog: http://www.nexlab.it
email: ne...@ne...
Fax/Tel: +39 0331 682151
Cell: +39 339 8125940
Busto Arsizio (VA) - Italy
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Unable to use GUI while a process is running.

[Aaron S. <az...@bu...>]

Hi Tom,

What you need is to use multi-threading. If you are not familiar with  
multi-threading, basically a thread is a stream of execution within  
your program. The "main" thread is blocking while reading the file.  
That's why it seems unresponsive -- it keeps waiting for data, but it  
cannot respond to the user interface until it is done with the download.

A good design would be to create a separate worker thread to handle  
the download, and then have your method (in the main thread) launch  
the worker thread, and then return from the method so the UI can  
respond to other user requests. The worker thread would continue until  
the file is complete, and then exit.

You can read about threading here:
http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/lib/module-thread.html

Basically, you start up a thread and give it a function to execute.  
When the function ends, the thread ends with it.
You will need to use some coordination to make it possible for the  
"main" thread to read status from the worker thread, to know its  
progress. I would recommend a "push" model, whereby the worker thread  
pushes its status to the main GUI. This could be as simple as having  
it write to:

self.components.progressBar.value = int(timer)

So long as NO OTHER CODE writes to that progress bar's value. If any  
other code might also write to it, you will need to protect it using  
the LockType object described in the API page.

I hope this helps!

Best,
Aaron

On Nov 13, 2008, at 7:30 AM, Tom Angle wrote:

> I've written a program to where you enter a URL of a file to  
> download. When downloads the file and displays the progress with the  
> Gauge widget and displays the download speed. When the file is being  
> downloaded I am unable to use any buttons or type any text in the  
> window. One the download is complete the program responds the way it  
> should. How do you place the download process in the background and  
> still have the progress and speed still displayed? I may be in a  
> brain lock, but I can not figure it out.
>
> import urllib2, sre, sys, time, urllib
> from PythonCard import model
>
> class Main(model.Background):
>
>     global timer
>     global speed
>     timer = 0
>     speed = ''
>
>     def on_initialize(self, event):
>         self.components.progressBar.value = timer
>         self.components.speedField.text = speed
>
>     def on_progressBar_timer(self, event, timer):
>         self.components.progressBar.value = timer
>
>     def on_getBtn_mouseClick(self,event):
>         file_url = self.components.fileURLInput.text
>
>         lastUpdate = 0.0
>         progressSize = 0
>
>         def reportHook(count, blocksize, totalsize):
>             global lastUpdate
>             global progressSize
>             global timer
>             global speed
>
>             if count == 0:
>                 lastUpdate = time.time()
>                 progressSize = 0
>                 return
>
>             progressSize += blocksize
>             deltaTime = time.time() - lastUpdate
>
>             if deltaTime > .1:
>                 percent = int(float(count * blocksize * 100) /  
> totalsize)
>                 speed = int(progressSize / (1024 * deltaTime))
>                 timer = int(percent)
>                 speed = str(speed)
>                 speed = speed + ' kbs'
>                 self.components.progressBar.value = int(timer)
>                 self.components.speedField.text = str(speed)
>                 lastUpdate = time.time()
>                 progressSize = 0
>
>         def getName(file_url):
>             # Get file name from URL
>             farray = file_url.split('/')
>             flen = len(farray)
>             flen = flen - 1
>             return farray[flen]
>
>         def dlFile(file_url, file_name):
>             urllib.urlretrieve(file_url,file_name,reportHook)
>             print 'Done'
>             timer = 0
>             speed = ''
>             self.components.progressBar.value = timer
>             self.components.speedField.text = speed
>
>         def mainDL(file_url):
>             file_name = getName(file_url)
>             dlFile(file_url,file_name)
>
>         mainDL(file_url)
>
>     def on_exitBtn_mouseClick(self, event):
>         sys.exit(0)
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     app = model.Application(Main)
>     app.MainLoop()
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Pythoncard-users] Unable to use GUI while a process is running.

[Tom A. <TA...@OR...>]

I've written a program to where you enter a URL of a file to download.
When downloads the file and displays the progress with the Gauge widget
and displays the download speed. When the file is being downloaded I am
unable to use any buttons or type any text in the window. One the
download is complete the program responds the way it should. How do you
place the download process in the background and still have the progress
and speed still displayed? I may be in a brain lock, but I can not
figure it out.
 
import urllib2, sre, sys, time, urllib
from PythonCard import model
 
class Main(model.Background):
 
    global timer
    global speed
    timer = 0
    speed = ''
 
    def on_initialize(self, event):
        self.components.progressBar.value = timer
        self.components.speedField.text = speed
 
    def on_progressBar_timer(self, event, timer):
        self.components.progressBar.value = timer
        
    def on_getBtn_mouseClick(self,event):
        file_url = self.components.fileURLInput.text
 
        lastUpdate = 0.0
        progressSize = 0
        
        def reportHook(count, blocksize, totalsize):
            global lastUpdate
            global progressSize
            global timer
            global speed

            if count == 0:
                lastUpdate = time.time()
                progressSize = 0
                return

            progressSize += blocksize
            deltaTime = time.time() - lastUpdate

            if deltaTime > .1:
                percent = int(float(count * blocksize * 100) /
totalsize)
                speed = int(progressSize / (1024 * deltaTime))
                timer = int(percent)
                speed = str(speed)
                speed = speed + ' kbs'
                self.components.progressBar.value = int(timer)
                self.components.speedField.text = str(speed)
                lastUpdate = time.time()
                progressSize = 0
 
        def getName(file_url):
            # Get file name from URL
            farray = file_url.split('/')
            flen = len(farray)
            flen = flen - 1
            return farray[flen]
        
        def dlFile(file_url, file_name):
            urllib.urlretrieve(file_url,file_name,reportHook)
            print 'Done'
            timer = 0
            speed = ''
            self.components.progressBar.value = timer
            self.components.speedField.text = speed
            
        def mainDL(file_url):
            file_name = getName(file_url)
            dlFile(file_url,file_name)
            
        mainDL(file_url)
        
    def on_exitBtn_mouseClick(self, event):
        sys.exit(0)

if __name__ == '__main__':
    app = model.Application(Main)
    app.MainLoop()

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Christoph Z. <ci...@on...>]

Nextime schrieb:
> Another thing: i know that SF has a procedure tu takeover "dead" 
> projects. but if I will fork the project, I will choose to base it
> where i find too confortable with, and i prefer to work on my own
> resources. Of course everyone can choose to follow me or to stay here
> at 0.8 release.

The question is what you intend. If you just want to work on PythonCard 
alone, and have full freedom, than this would be the best for you. But 
if you want to (re)establish an active community of developers as well, 
then it would be wise to stay with a public platform such as SourceForge 
instead of moving to your own resources, because other developers may 
not feel comfortable there and may not like the fragmentation.

As far as I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) there is no particular 
"project ownership" in SF, but all project administrators (and there are 
  7 of them, who you can contact directly) can add you as project member 
so you can check in the improvements you're talking about. You normally 
don't need to forge a project to revive it.

-- Christoph

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2008 09:29:09 -0800, ma...@us... wrote:

> al...@se... [al...@se...] wrote:
> > I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
> > contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing
> > project. We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still
> > utilizing the services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular
> > patch suggestions should be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing
> > list.
> 
> I agree, but he needs developer access to the exiting python-card
> project! I hope the original developers at least give him that.

Agreed...not just to avoid having to maintain two sets of code. It may be out of date, but there's a fair bit of documentation/wiki/bugtracker stuff that I'd rather not see duplicated across two projects. Of course, I would say that, having just gone throough the buglist and submitted a few new entries....I have no plans on doing that twice.

-- 
XXXXXXXXXXX

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 06:54:11PM +1100, Andy Todd wrote:
> Most of the work for this project was done by Kevin Altis - who has  
> already replied in this thread. If you are keen on taking over the  
> maintenance of this project I suggest your first course of action should  
> be to attempt to talk to him.
>
> If you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your conversation with him  
> then I would suggest either creating another source code repository (as  
> you have done - but a bit prematurely I feel) or transferring the  
> ownership of the SourceForge project to new maintainers who will be  
> slightly more active than Kevin has been for the last four or so years.
>
> FWIW, I believe that I still have maintainer rights on the SourceForge  
> project and may be able to assist you if required.
>
> Regards,
> Andy

Ok, so, the first question is:

Why i need to say "i want to fork the project" to let someone of the
developers answer?

Why in 2 years they don't answer to question about the status of the
project?

Why 15 days ago they don't answer to my post in -devel ml asking about
the status of the project in which i was saying "i need to fork it to
see it continued?"

and before of those questions, why we are stalled to 2006 release when
we have a lot of new things, sizers and so on, already done by others,
forced to post changes on external web site 'cause of developers that
don't answer to post in mailing list?

Isn't too easy to wait for someone to fork the project to say "why you
don't ask to be part of this project instead of forking it?" when he and
others are ask many times during YEARS to contribute?

Another thing: i know that SF has a procedure tu takeover "dead"
projects. but if I will fork the project, I will choose to base it where
i find too confortable with, and i prefer to work on my own resources.
Of course everyone can choose to follow me or to stay here at 0.8
release.

Last but not least, i don't want to see someone say "why don't you stay
here with original developers" after i ask they in devel- ml without any
answer. I want  to see the developement go ahead, this is the only thing
that will make me come back on my own steps.


-- 

Franco Lanza
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Andy T. <an...@ha...>]

Nextime wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:51:47AM -0800, al...@se... wrote:
> -SNIP-
>> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
>> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project.
>> We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the
>> services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should
>> be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list.
> -SNIP-
> 
> Generally speacking, i totally agree with you. Forking most times mean
> generate confusion and separe developers of an unique project in many
> parts, and it isn't good.
> 
> But in this case i don't see another solution. 15 days ago i've tryed to
> contact the developers on the -devel ml asking about the state of the
> project. Noone aswer to me. Same things happen to many other people
> asking for the state of the project many times in the past few years.
> 
> Hey, read, i say "years"!.
> 
> Also, from 2004 to today there are only few commits in the CVS repo,
> most of which are just very little bugfixes. And the latest commit have
> more than 1 year.
> 
> In the mean time, many peoples on the mailing lists was trying to
> contribute with patches, code, suggestions. Why none of those posts was
> considered except very very very few ones and only some years ago by the
> developers? I don't say that someone kick te patches coming from users
> saying "hey, they are not well written" or "our policy can't accept
> those functions". I can't see any answer or consideration at all.
> 
> The problem isn't sourceforge or CVS instead of SVN. And i totally agree
> with you that continue the project where it is now shuld be a better
> thing. But it seem that the developers:
> 
>  - aren't interested in accepting contributions
>  - aren't interested in let pycard evolving
>  - don't consider users questions about the state of the project
> 
> This is why i want to fork it. Why i need to get pieces from different
> (many) web sites to have my pythoncard install "complete" as complete can be
> today with all contributions?
> 
> I don't want to fork an active project. I'm forking a "dead" one.
> 

Most of the work for this project was done by Kevin Altis - who has 
already replied in this thread. If you are keen on taking over the 
maintenance of this project I suggest your first course of action should 
be to attempt to talk to him.

If you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your conversation with him 
then I would suggest either creating another source code repository (as 
you have done - but a bit prematurely I feel) or transferring the 
ownership of the SourceForge project to new maintainers who will be 
slightly more active than Kevin has been for the last four or so years.

FWIW, I believe that I still have maintainer rights on the SourceForge 
project and may be able to assist you if required.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Andy T. <an...@ha...>]

Nextime wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:51:47AM -0800, al...@se... wrote:
> -SNIP-
>> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
>> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project.
>> We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the
>> services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should
>> be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list.
> -SNIP-
> 
> Generally speacking, i totally agree with you. Forking most times mean
> generate confusion and separe developers of an unique project in many
> parts, and it isn't good.
> 
> But in this case i don't see another solution. 15 days ago i've tryed to
> contact the developers on the -devel ml asking about the state of the
> project. Noone aswer to me. Same things happen to many other people
> asking for the state of the project many times in the past few years.
> 
> Hey, read, i say "years"!.
> 
> Also, from 2004 to today there are only few commits in the CVS repo,
> most of which are just very little bugfixes. And the latest commit have
> more than 1 year.
> 
> In the mean time, many peoples on the mailing lists was trying to
> contribute with patches, code, suggestions. Why none of those posts was
> considered except very very very few ones and only some years ago by the
> developers? I don't say that someone kick te patches coming from users
> saying "hey, they are not well written" or "our policy can't accept
> those functions". I can't see any answer or consideration at all.
> 
> The problem isn't sourceforge or CVS instead of SVN. And i totally agree
> with you that continue the project where it is now shuld be a better
> thing. But it seem that the developers:
> 
>  - aren't interested in accepting contributions
>  - aren't interested in let pycard evolving
>  - don't consider users questions about the state of the project
> 
> This is why i want to fork it. Why i need to get pieces from different
> (many) web sites to have my pythoncard install "complete" as complete can be
> today with all contributions?
> 
> I don't want to fork an active project. I'm forking a "dead" one.
> 

Most of the work for this project was done by Kevin Altis - who has 
already replied in this thread. If you are keen on taking over the 
maintenance of this project I suggest your first course of action should 
be to attempt to talk to him.

If you don't get a satisfactory outcome from your conversation with him 
then I would suggest either creating another source code repository (as 
you have done - but a bit prematurely I feel) or transferring the 
ownership of the SourceForge project to new maintainers who will be 
slightly more active than Kevin has been for the last four or so years.

FWIW, I believe that I still have maintainer rights on the SourceForge 
project and may be able to assist you if required.

Regards,
Andy
-- 
 From the desk of Andrew J Todd esq - http://www.halfcooked.com/

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Glenn B. <gbb...@ve...>]

> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project.

I agree.  I think that SourceForge has a policy and mechanism for transferring 
maintainer authority to new folks if the original developers have 
disappeared.  That path should be preferred to a fork.

[Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 08:51:47AM -0800, al...@se... wrote:
-SNIP-
> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project.
> We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the
> services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should
> be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list.
-SNIP-

Generally speacking, i totally agree with you. Forking most times mean
generate confusion and separe developers of an unique project in many
parts, and it isn't good.

But in this case i don't see another solution. 15 days ago i've tryed to
contact the developers on the -devel ml asking about the state of the
project. Noone aswer to me. Same things happen to many other people
asking for the state of the project many times in the past few years.

Hey, read, i say "years"!.

Also, from 2004 to today there are only few commits in the CVS repo,
most of which are just very little bugfixes. And the latest commit have
more than 1 year.

In the mean time, many peoples on the mailing lists was trying to
contribute with patches, code, suggestions. Why none of those posts was
considered except very very very few ones and only some years ago by the
developers? I don't say that someone kick te patches coming from users
saying "hey, they are not well written" or "our policy can't accept
those functions". I can't see any answer or consideration at all.

The problem isn't sourceforge or CVS instead of SVN. And i totally agree
with you that continue the project where it is now shuld be a better
thing. But it seem that the developers:

 - aren't interested in accepting contributions
 - aren't interested in let pycard evolving
 - don't consider users questions about the state of the project

This is why i want to fork it. Why i need to get pieces from different
(many) web sites to have my pythoncard install "complete" as complete can be
today with all contributions?

I don't want to fork an active project. I'm forking a "dead" one.


-- 

Franco Lanza
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[<ma...@us...>]

al...@se... [al...@se...] wrote:
> I'm traveling right now so I don't have time for a big reply, but I will
> respond again this weekend.
> 
> I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
> contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project.
> We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the
> services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should
> be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list.

I agree, but he needs developer access to the exiting python-card
project! I hope the original developers at least give him that.

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[<al...@se...>]

I'm traveling right now so I don't have time for a big reply, but I will
respond again this weekend.

I'm not in favor of forking the project. If someone is interested in
contributing they can simply be made a developer for the existing project.
We can migrate the project to svn from cvs while still utilizing the
services of SourceForge. Discussion of particular patch suggestions should
be done on the pythoncard-devel mailing list.

Thanks,

ka

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:06:59PM -0300, phil jones wrote:
>> Glad to see someone picking this up if the original devs have given up.
>>
>> What are your plans for PyCard?
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> phil
>
> Happy to see that many people here want to see the project go ahead.
>
> First of all, let me see one thing: My fork *won't* be a war declaration
> to the original developers, nor any complain in the work already done by
> those who have contributed to pycard before today.
>
> I don't really have a precise plan for the future of this piece of code,
> i fork it only cause i use it for some of my projects, and i need to see
> that it can be supported for future python/wx releases, and maybe with
> continue improvements.
>
> Some thing that i want to see soon are:
>
>  - the things that already exists in pycard and you can't use from
>    resourceEditor/layoutEditor. They need to be implemented also in the
> editors.
>
>  - Sizers. Thanks to Tweedly we now have those things. But hey, in the
>    CVS of pythoncard on SF they aren't included!
>
>  - There are other patches, things, suggestions in mailing list from
>    when the latest release was done? Good, let we include in the SVN!
>
>  - Is there anyone who want to contribute? Just ask for a SVN write
>    enabled account, no more "i can't post my patch in mailing list cause
>    attachments are blocked, and i don't know how to send it to
>    developers for inclusion".
>
>
>
> I have other ideas, but i want to be open-minded and let the community
> choose what pythoncard need for the future.
>
> Also, i primarly fork the project cause *I* need and i like to use it, so,
> of course my goal is to have what I need, in the hope that it can be
> usefull also
> for others.
>
> Other things that i wish to have in a (maybe long) future are:
>
>  - Complete set of widgets from wxpython implemented, no more need to
>    put raw wxpython code and mix it with the pycard one
>
>  - maybe a restailing of the rsrc files, using xml/css templating?
>
>
> But the important thing is, and remain, LET WE WAKE UP THE PROJECT!!!
>
>
>
> --
>
> Franco Lanza
> -----------------------------------
> NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
> you can download my public key at:
> http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
> Key ID = D6132D50
> Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
> -----------------------------------
> echo
> 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq
> | dc
> -----------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the
> world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/_______________________________________________
> Pythoncard-users mailing list
> Pyt...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users
>

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:06:59PM -0300, phil jones wrote:
> Glad to see someone picking this up if the original devs have given up.
> 
> What are your plans for PyCard?
> 
> cheers
> 
> phil

Happy to see that many people here want to see the project go ahead.

First of all, let me see one thing: My fork *won't* be a war declaration
to the original developers, nor any complain in the work already done by
those who have contributed to pycard before today.

I don't really have a precise plan for the future of this piece of code,
i fork it only cause i use it for some of my projects, and i need to see
that it can be supported for future python/wx releases, and maybe with
continue improvements.

Some thing that i want to see soon are:

 - the things that already exists in pycard and you can't use from
   resourceEditor/layoutEditor. They need to be implemented also in the editors.

 - Sizers. Thanks to Tweedly we now have those things. But hey, in the
   CVS of pythoncard on SF they aren't included!

 - There are other patches, things, suggestions in mailing list from
   when the latest release was done? Good, let we include in the SVN!

 - Is there anyone who want to contribute? Just ask for a SVN write
   enabled account, no more "i can't post my patch in mailing list cause
   attachments are blocked, and i don't know how to send it to
   developers for inclusion".



I have other ideas, but i want to be open-minded and let the community
choose what pythoncard need for the future.

Also, i primarly fork the project cause *I* need and i like to use it, so, 
of course my goal is to have what I need, in the hope that it can be usefull also
for others.

Other things that i wish to have in a (maybe long) future are:

 - Complete set of widgets from wxpython implemented, no more need to
   put raw wxpython code and mix it with the pycard one
 
 - maybe a restailing of the rsrc files, using xml/css templating?


But the important thing is, and remain, LET WE WAKE UP THE PROJECT!!!



-- 

Franco Lanza
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[phil j. <int...@gm...>]

Glad to see someone picking this up if the original devs have given up.

What are your plans for PyCard?

cheers

phil

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Nextime <ne...@ne...> wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> It seem that the developement of PythonCard is stalled.
>
> The original developers don't answer to any request about the status of
> the project, many people here in  few last *years* try to ask something
> about, or better to send patches and/or improvements of new features...
>
> And no answer from original Developers.
>
> So, i decided to fork the project.
>
> Actually there is a trac site (http://trac.medianix.org/wiki/PyCard),
> two mailing lists (pycard-devel and pycard-users @unixmedia.org)
> and a SVN repository.
>
> On the repository there is what i called "pythoncard version 1.1.2",
> that include latest CVS HEAD from here and sizer modifications from
> Tweedly.
>
> The version is 1.1.2 'cause of the Tweedly version that was "1.1".
>
> If anyone want to contribute with patches and so on, i will happy to
> make the svn accessible for write.
>
> Regards
> --
>
> Franco Lanza
> My blog: http://www.nexlab.it
> email: ne...@ne...
> -----------------------------------
> NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
> you can download my public key at:
> http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
> Key ID = D6132D50
> Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
> -----------------------------------
> echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
> -----------------------------------
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkkazP4ACgkQ3�ൡ㋕݉뀉ꀪ⽎퀻ﯙ໘蜬淀⩥�
> 9P4AoNr/DCTuT8kP8PkpVo6PsBjULNzl
> =nIBM
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> _______________________________________________
> Pythoncard-users mailing list
> Pyt...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pythoncard-users
>
>

[Pythoncard-users] Pythoncard and future developements

[Nextime <ne...@ne...>]

Hello all.

It seem that the developement of PythonCard is stalled.

The original developers don't answer to any request about the status of
the project, many people here in  few last *years* try to ask something
about, or better to send patches and/or improvements of new features... 

And no answer from original Developers.

So, i decided to fork the project.

Actually there is a trac site (http://trac.medianix.org/wiki/PyCard),
two mailing lists (pycard-devel and pycard-users @unixmedia.org)
and a SVN repository.

On the repository there is what i called "pythoncard version 1.1.2",
that include latest CVS HEAD from here and sizer modifications from
Tweedly.

The version is 1.1.2 'cause of the Tweedly version that was "1.1".

If anyone want to contribute with patches and so on, i will happy to
make the svn accessible for write. 

Regards
-- 

Franco Lanza
My blog: http://www.nexlab.it
email: ne...@ne...
-----------------------------------
NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org
you can download my public key at:
http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers
Key ID = D6132D50
Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7  4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50
-----------------------------------
echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc
-----------------------------------

Re: [Pythoncard-users] StaticText over BitmapCanvas - GTK issue?

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008 16:36:51 +0000, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 17:46:10 -0800, "Morgan Venable" <ve...@gm...> wrote:
> 
> > It appears to be impossible to get a StaticText widget to render in
> > front of a BitmapCanvas.  I need to use some bitmapcanvases to show
> > colored areas behind my interface.  No matter what the order of the
> > items is in the resource file, the static text ALWAYS renders behind
> > the BitmapCanvas.
> > Other widgets like buttons, gauges etc all render fine, according to
> > order in the file.
> > 
> > Bug or Feature?
> 
> Could be a bug. I can place StaticText over a BitmapCanvas without any issues on XP, but on my old OpenBSD box (Python 2.4 + wxPython 
> 2.6.3) I see the same problem, plus I cannot change the background colour of the StaticText component. Maybe a GTK2 issue?

There's an old entry in the bugtracker (1043690) that reports the following:

"I have a card with a background image (as an image rather than a background
property).
I need to change the background image at run time.

Under PythonCardPrototype 0.7 (2?), this worked. Under PythonCard 0.8 the
image insists on being at the frontmost layer - ie hiding any buttons, text
fields etc on the page."

This looks like the same issue.
-- 
XXXXXXXXXXX

Re: [Pythoncard-users] PythonCard status

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 14:51:04 +0000, XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX wrote:

> Maybe to start with, since the list is so quiet, we can do a poll and get an idea of numbers, 
> platforms/versions being used, a top 3 bug/request list and who can contribute? Any takers? I'll 
> start it off if nobody else does....first though I need to go around and work out how many 
> combinations of OS + Python + wxPython I have!

OK...if anything hits a problem and needs to confirm it isn't specific to their set-up, let me know and I'll try to duplicate it here. I'm using the following...

...to build Windows executables for customers that need to link to Visual C 6 era DLLS:

Windows NT 4 (in a VM) + Python 2.3.5 + wxPython 2.8.7.1

wheareas for general development and testing of applications I use one of the following:

Windows XP + Python 2.5 + wxPython 2.8.9.0
Windows XP + Python 2.6 + wxPython 2.8.9.1

The latter is on my laptop after Kevin asked if anyone was able to test PythonCard + Python 2.6. I also have the following setups which currently only get used when questions appear in these mailing lists:

OSX 10.4.11 (PPC) + Python 2.3.5 + wxPython 2.5.3.1
OSX 10.4.11 (PPC) + Python 2.5.1 + wxPython 2.8.9.1
OpenBSD 4.2 + Python 2.4 + wxPython 2.6.something

The issues I'm most concerned/interested about/in are:
1) wxPython - more things are breaking since wxPython 2.8.8.x was released, and I'd like to move more of my development environment to OSX but there are various wxPython-on-Mac problems at the moment; PythonCard on *nix seems to be even more hit-and-miss;
2) website/documentation - the bug/request/to-do lists haven't been updated for a while and people are always asking about documentation;
3) components - PythonCard deliberately doesn't include certain wxPython widgets due to complexity/time/effort; I've always though too that it would be nice to have a more up-to-date, cross-platform HTML component (the last time I checked there was the basic HTML 3 and IE components, and I think some work was being done on a Mozilla and WebKit widget in wxPython).

Since I've mentioned recently a few issues I've found or confirmed, it would probably be a good idea if I made the effort and added them to the PythonCard bugtracker. Not a huge contribution, but a start...

-- 
XXXXXXXXXXX

Re: [Pythoncard-users] PythonCard status

[Christopher L. <chr...@ip...>]

Hi Neil and all,

I'm using Pythoncard on Ubuntu 8.10. I don't really notice the bugs now,
but there are a few controls that crash ResourceEditor when you try to
add them, and you can only seem to move buttons by using the arrow keys
or by resizing them. I'm not terribly bothered by the non-functioning
controls because I've learnt just to not use them.

I'll get specific examples and report back.

Chris Lees

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Odd behaviors of Pythoncard under Ubuntu: errors on exit, StaticText over BitmapCanvas, multiple item move

[Morgan V. <ve...@gm...>]

> Same here...layout and resource editor...but not on every component. For example, multi-column list and calendar do >shift while button and combo-box do not.

Yep -- I witness the same behavior -- not all components do this.
Same issue -- pardon my lack of clarity :)

morgan

Re: [Pythoncard-users] Odd behaviors of Pythoncard under Ubuntu: errors on exit, StaticText over BitmapCanvas, multiple item move

[XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 08:37:22 -0800, "Morgan Venable" <ve...@gm...> wrote:

> Under Windows, every select moves the item down and right by 2 pixels each.

Same here...layout and resource editor...but not on every component. For example, multi-column list and calendar do shift while button and combo-box do not.

-- 
XXXXXXXXXXX